JFB to the T Wolves

[dgies9156]

Been doin' some serious planning on this year's BBQ. Still goona be early October. Home cured and smoked bacon, brisket, burnt ends, ribs, and some other surprises.  Bartenders from Lake Elmo Inn will be participating too.  They make a killer mystery Manhattan.  Maybe SPW can find his way over too.

Meat Coma. Might need the bambulence to take everyone home.

Heck, this sounds good enough that I might be in! And I'm in Chicago LOL!

[Eldon]

How many years were left on JFB's contract?

I haven't been as ardent in following the NBA, but this trade seems really bad. So bad that there has to be some strategic element that I am overlooking.

[rocket surgeon]

May as well keep Wade in the books for another year. He ain't gonna win you many games at this stage in his career. Can tank with him on the team and save some money.

I just really couldn't care less about the Bulls, by far the Chicago sports team I care about the least. Strange coming from a kid who grew up in Chicago in the 90s.

you couldn't be more wrong here-after the smoke clears, da bulls will have about $30 mil in cap space with a new line up including lavine, dunn and lorrie(or laurie?)  i really liked what i saw of the lanky young az. dude from over seas, but the bucks may have gotten the athlete in dj-guys got the wing span of a 7'3" playa

[MU82]

Ya never know how these things are gonna work out, but an experienced star like JFB would seem to be a great addition to a team with young stars like Towns and Wiggins.

Agree completely.

The Timberwolves didn't need another kid, they needed a man to help put the whole thing together. I will be stunned if they aren't a playoff team next year, and surprised if they don't contend for homecourt advantage in the first round.

FWIW, I am neither a Wolves fan nor a Bulls fan, just an observer.

[Dr. Blackheart]

you couldn't be more wrong here-after the smoke clears, da bulls will have about $30 mil in cap space with a new line up including lavine, dunn and lorrie(or laurie?)  i really liked what i saw of the lanky young az. dude from over seas, but the bucks may have gotten the athlete in dj-guys got the wing span of a 7'3" playa

SI says Bulls got fleeced
https://www.si.com/nba/2017/06/22/jimmy-butler-trade-bulls-wolves-nba-draft-grades-zach-lavine-kris-dunn

Fox Sports say the Bulls have no plan.
http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/what-the-bulls-got-back-for-jimmy-butler-proves-they-have-no-plan-062217

What this deal really does is buy GarPax rebuilding time on their future. Dunn has been a flop. LaVine is damaged goods at this point and won't be anywhere ready to start the season. The third part is essentially Lauri for Patton. Lauri and Mirotic are essentially the same. When a deal is done with a superstar to completely rebuild a roster, it sure looks like this one was done for GarPax's self-serving survival.

The Wolves look like they just got considerably better, on the other hand.

[CreanLover]

SI says Bulls got fleeced
https://www.si.com/nba/2017/06/22/jimmy-butler-trade-bulls-wolves-nba-draft-grades-zach-lavine-kris-dunn

Fox Sports say the Bulls have no plan.
http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/what-the-bulls-got-back-for-jimmy-butler-proves-they-have-no-plan-062217

What this deal really does is buy GarPax rebuilding time on their future. Dunn has been a flop. LaVine is damaged goods at this point and won't be anywhere ready to start the season. The third part is essentially Lauri for Patton. Lauri and Mirotic are essentially the same. When a deal is done with a superstar to completely rebuild a roster, it sure looks like this one was done for GarPax's self-serving survival.

The Wolves look like they just got considerably better, on the other hand.

You can't call Dunn a flop. I'm not saying he's a star, but Thibs does not play rookies...ever. That includes Jimmy Butler. It was a source of friction with McDermott, too. Dunn could be a very good player.

I don't understand the hand wringing. The Bulls were a mess last year. It's the same thing as these people up in arms about the possibility the Knicks might trade Porzingis. Who cares? They're terrible and he ain't the answer to their problems. Jimmy is a nice player but has seemingly become a locker room prima Donna. Ship him out! And I love Butler.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

You can't call Dunn a flop. I'm not saying he's a star, but Thibs does not play rookies...ever. That includes Jimmy Butler. It was a source of friction with McDermott, too. Dunn could be a very good player.

I don't understand the hand wringing. The Bulls were a mess last year. It's the same thing as these people up in arms about the possibility the Knicks might trade Porzingis. Who cares? They're terrible and he ain't the answer to their problems. Jimmy is a nice player but has seemingly become a locker room prima Donna. Ship him out! And I love Butler.

This, the Bulls are going nowhere anytime soon. I love Jimmy as well but you're not gonna win a 'ship if he's your number one guy.

I really do like Lavine, so long as he isn't as mentally weak as D Rose was, I have no worries about him coming back from his ACL injury.

[mu03eng]

This, the Bulls are going nowhere anytime soon. I love Jimmy as well but you're not gonna win a 'ship if he's your number one guy.

Not sure I understand this point. Who do the Bulls have now that is or will be a number one guy that's better than JFB? If you build the right team around JFB you could definitely go deep in the playoffs.

Jordan or LBJ isn't walking through that door in Chicago so whats the plan without JFB? Wade's gonna get bought out too.

[Ellenson Guerrero]

Not sure I understand this point. Who do the Bulls have now that is or will be a number one guy that's better than JFB? If you build the right team around JFB you could definitely go deep in the playoffs.

Jordan or LBJ isn't walking through that door in Chicago so whats the plan without JFB? Wade's gonna get bought out too.

It's pretty clear that the plan is to get young secondary pieces in place, tank this year, and hope you hit on Michael porter this time next year.

[mu03eng]

It's pretty clear that the plan is to get young secondary pieces in place, tank this year, and hope you hit on Michael porter this time next year.

I guess, but that's a lot of hope: A) you have to win the lottery B) Michael Porter has to be the prospect everyone seems to think he is.

I'll admit, I'm not super familiar with Porter's game so I'll be interested to see how this season in college goes for him to see if he's the can't miss talent everyone thinks he is.

[g0lden3agle]

I really do like Lavine, so long as he isn't as mentally weak as D Rose was, I have no worries about him coming back from his ACL injury.

So D Rose's injury problems are due to a lack of mental toughness?  That's a new one to me!

[g0lden3agle]

You can't call Dunn a flop. I'm not saying he's a star, but Thibs does not play rookies...ever. That includes Jimmy Butler. It was a source of friction with McDermott, too. Dunn could be a very good player.

I don't understand the hand wringing. The Bulls were a mess last year. It's the same thing as these people up in arms about the possibility the Knicks might trade Porzingis. Who cares? They're terrible and he ain't the answer to their problems. Jimmy is a nice player but has seemingly become a locker room prima Donna. Ship him out! And I love Butler.

Is there any evidence of this that isn't an artifact of the Bulls Front Office screwing up staff moves (Firing Thibs and replacing him with a soft coach in Hoiberg)?

Totally forgot about drama that happened this year when Rondo got mad at the way Wade and Jimmy were treating the rest of the guys both in front of the media and behind closed doors.  NEED MOAR COFFEE.

[Ellenson Guerrero]

I guess, but that's a lot of hope: A) you have to win the lottery B) Michael Porter has to be the prospect everyone seems to think he is.

I'll admit, I'm not super familiar with Porter's game so I'll be interested to see how this season in college goes for him to see if he's the can't miss talent everyone thinks he is.

Every rebuild involves a lot of risk.  But the Bulls have been in the dreaded middle of the NBA for too long and needed to commit to starting over.  Jimmy wasn't taking them to the promised land.

[Ellenson Guerrero]

Is there any evidence of this that isn't an artifact of the Bulls Front Office screwing up staff moves (Firing Thibs and replacing him with a soft coach in Hoiberg)?

Yes.  The majority of his teammates resent him.

[CreanLover]

Is there any evidence of this that isn't an artifact of the Bulls Front Office screwing up staff moves (Firing Thibs and replacing him with a soft coach in Hoiberg)?

The media loves to think they know better and question John Paxson's every move but he's not stupid. Of course he's made mistakes (Del Negro) but he also drafted Jimmy, Noah, hired Thibs when people thought he was too weird, etc.

I don't have a link and was not in the locker room but there were signs (Rondo's Instagram) that Butler (and Wade) were not exactly helping the younger Bulls.

[g0lden3agle]

Yes.  The majority of his teammates resent him.

The media loves to think they know better and question John Paxson's every move but he's not stupid. Of course he's made mistakes (Del Negro) but he also drafted Jimmy, Noah, hired Thibs when people thought he was too weird, etc.

I don't have a link and was not in the locker room but there were signs (Rondo's Instagram) that Butler (and Wade) were not exactly helping the younger Bulls.

I forgot about the issues you guys are bringing up now.  I had only remembered when he was throwing shade at Hoiberg, which I didn't necessarily disagree with at the time.

[wadesworld]

Butler is under contract for 2 years.  The Bulls didn't even get an extra pick out of the deal, they just flipped picks to move up 7 spots.  And they took on a high volume scorer who relies on athleticism coming off of an ACL tear and a guy who couldn't beat out someone the Timberwolves have been trying to dump for years now.

Just because the Bulls won't be competitive with Jimmy doesn't mean you trade Jimmy for the only offer you can get that includes guys under the age of 26.  There would've been a ton more value in hanging onto Jimmy and seeing who's looking to buy mid season or else you can get at least the same amount of value next offseason as you just got last night.

This was a brutally bad trade, regardless of whether the Bulls are winning with or without Jimmy the next 2 years.

[Ellenson Guerrero]

Butler is under contract for 2 years.  The Bulls didn't even get an extra pick out of the deal, they just flipped picks to move up 7 spots.  And they took on a high volume scorer who relies on athleticism coming off of an ACL tear and a guy who couldn't beat out someone the Timberwolves have been trying to dump for years now.

Just because the Bulls won't be competitive with Jimmy doesn't mean you trade Jimmy for the only offer you can get that includes guys under the age of 26.  There would've been a ton more value in hanging onto Jimmy and seeing who's looking to buy mid season or else you can get at least the same amount of value next offseason as you just got last night.

This was a brutally bad trade, regardless of whether the Bulls are winning with or without Jimmy the next 2 years.

It's pretty clear the Celtics weren't willing to spend high picks on Jimmy.  And no one else who want Jimmy has the type of draft assets you would want.  Paxson has been exploring trading Jimmy for over a year now; this was the best deal available, no matter what people think his value is.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

I think being Marquette fans here, many people really overestimate JFBs value.

I certainly don't think he's a top 10 player in the league, hell he may have trouble cracking the top 20. I'm fine with what they got for him and I'd much rather have a god awful Bulls team than a mediocre one.

[DegenerateDish]

I understand the Thibs doesn't play rookies or like rookies stuff, but Dunn is already 23 years old. That matters.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

I understand the Thibs doesn't play rookies or like rookies stuff, but Dunn is already 23 years old. That matters.

Okay, so? Let's look at Jimmy who was a 22 year old rookie as well, that rode the pine behind Rip Hamilton and Ronnie Brewer of all people...

[MUBurrow]

Okay, so? Let's look at Jimmy who was a 22 year old rookie as well, that rode the pine behind Rip Hamilton and Ronnie Brewer of all people...

The exception doesn't prove the rule. There were a lot of front offices that weren't big fans of Dunn during the draft last year, and there were a lot of jokes when Thibs took him about being an all defense Thibs type guy. Those exact fears were what bore out in his game last year. Sure he could become a different player at 24 while drifting on what's left of the Bulls riff raff roster, but you have to admit the odds don't look particularly good.

[MUBurrow]

Butler is under contract for 2 years.  The Bulls didn't even get an extra pick out of the deal, they just flipped picks to move up 7 spots.  And they took on a high volume scorer who relies on athleticism coming off of an ACL tear and a guy who couldn't beat out someone the Timberwolves have been trying to dump for years now.

Just because the Bulls won't be competitive with Jimmy doesn't mean you trade Jimmy for the only offer you can get that includes guys under the age of 26.  There would've been a ton more value in hanging onto Jimmy and seeing who's looking to buy mid season or else you can get at least the same amount of value next offseason as you just got last night.

This was a brutally bad trade, regardless of whether the Bulls are winning with or without Jimmy the next 2 years.

This x1000. The argument isn't the binary of whether it was philosophically best to trade JB, its that once you answer that question in the affirmative, there was no way this was the correct move to make. As Ellenson noted below, I have to think this move means that the Celts weren't willing to deal in any of this year's pick, next year's pick, or Jaylen Brown. If they were and this deal still got made, GarPax should be sent adrift on an iceberg rather than just fired.

But even allowing for the argument that this was the best deal on the table last night, its not good enough to pull the trigger in lieu of rolling the dice that something better comes along this offseason or before the deadline, or hell, before next year's draft on a one-year rental. Very similar to the Boogie Cousins dynamic whether the Kings got a terrible return and the only defenses to the deal are to say either (a) "well, heck, you never know with these young players, maybe they'll be good!" or (b) "he was so terrible in the locker room, they had to make the deal now." I just don't think either of those are good defenses to getting pennies on the dollar for a player you've been dangling for a year +.

[Lennys Tap]

I think being Marquette fans here, many people really overestimate JFBs value.

I certainly don't think he's a top 10 player in the league, hell he may have trouble cracking the top 20. I'm fine with what they got for him and I'd much rather have a god awful Bulls team than a mediocre one.

Advanced stats say you are underestimating JFB's value, but if your goal is turning the Bulls from a mediocre team to a god awful one I understand why you're ok with this trade - Mission Accomplished!

[cheebs09]

2 seniors drafted in the 1st round.

That's some bullsh!t right there.

It's the way the NBA has been for awhile.

I wonder with the new G League setup, if the teams will invest more in 4-year players because there's more roster space. Or if they will see more room for younger guys to take fliers on. I'm guessing the latter.

As far as Jimmy, I can't believe Boston didn't have an offer that exceeded that. Did they just refuse to trade with Boston? Maybe the Celtics preferred George.