7000 fans a game?

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

A very fair and IMHO, accurate description of the man as Marquette's basketball coach. I guess you could add that almost immediately he brought back some excitement to a basketball program that was moribund at the time of his hiring.

I think that 33% of the vitriol about him now is from the way he left and 67% over who he was/is as a human being cue keefe for all the details.

For me, 0% on how he left ( no good way to leave) and 0% that he left (IU top 10 or higher program) and 100% that the guy is a complete douche bag. 
Look at his IU situation, he ultimately didnt win enough but that was hightened because of his severe dislikeability.

[CreanLover]

For me, 0% on how he left ( no good way to leave) and 0% that he left (IU top 10 or higher program and 100% that the guy is a complete douche bag. 
Look at his IU situation, he ultimately didnt win enough but that was hightened because of his severe dislikeability.

Spot on.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Tom Crean took a student base that did not care about MU hoops at 200 student season tickets to over 3,000 student season tickets. That standard is still holding true today, thanks to Tom Crean.

The 200 student ticket number is a total fabrication as well

[mu03eng]

The 200 student ticket number is a total fabrication as well

It isn't. I was a student starting in 1999, students just didn't go to the games or buy tickets. My freshmen year, I could show up a little before tip for most games and sit in the first 5 or 6 rows of the student section.

I'll say it again, Crean can be an a-hole while also being the second most important figure in Marquette basketball after Al.

All the things that make him generally obnoxious now, were revolutionary/important at the start of his career. The hype machine he helped create(athletic department did a lot too) was critical to elevating the visibility of the program within the fanbase. He was a very early adopter of the Midnight Madness concept and engaging with the students on the regular.

I firmly believe that a lot of the Crean hate is retro-active because his schtick isn't new/cool any more. We can joke about Crean showing up at a recruits house in a limo all we want but that was "cutting edge" at the time. Crean as a recruiter and hype man were absolutely critical to restoring Marquette's legacy and if you can't see passed his being a self-serving jerk that says to appreciate that...then that probably says more about you than it does him.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

It isn't. I was a student starting in 1999, students just didn't go to the games or buy tickets. My freshmen year, I could show up a little before tip for most games and sit in the first 5 or 6 rows of the student section.

I'll say it again, Crean can be an a-hole while also being the second most important figure in Marquette basketball after Al.

All the things that make him generally obnoxious now, were revolutionary/important at the start of his career. The hype machine he helped create(athletic department did a lot too) was critical to elevating the visibility of the program within the fanbase. He was a very early adopter of the Midnight Madness concept and engaging with the students on the regular.

I firmly believe that a lot of the Crean hate is retro-active because his schtick isn't new/cool any more. We can joke about Crean showing up at a recruits house in a limo all we want but that was "cutting edge" at the time. Crean as a recruiter and hype man were absolutely critical to restoring Marquette's legacy and if you can't see passed his being a self-serving jerk that says to appreciate that...then that probably says more about you than it does him.

Have you not heard of Kevin Oneil?
Program had been in the NCAAs 4 of the 7 yrs before Creams arrival.
Have zero issues with his schtick. 

[mu03eng]

Have you not heard of Kevin Oneil?
Program had been in the NCAAs 4 of the 7 yrs before Creams arrival.
Have zero issues with his schtick.

I'm familiar with all of Marquette's coaches....what is your point, what you think O'Neil was better and/or more important for MU than Crean?

[4everwarriors]

Dude had a solid week to prep for Kansas and didn't have an answer for their fast break. Not only peed down his leg, but also chitted his Haggars, big league, on college basketball's largest and most visible stage. Dat's all anyone needs ta know 'bout Thomas Crean, ai na?

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

I'm familiar with all of Marquette's coaches....what is your point, what you think O'Neil was better and/or more important for MU than Crean?

As do most

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Dude had a solid week to prep for Kansas and didn't have an answer for their fast break. Not only peed down his leg, but also chitted his Haggars, big league, on college basketball's largest and most visible stage. Dat's all anyone needs ta know 'bout Thomas Crean, ai na?

Saw Crean and his team right before they boarded the bus in NOLA to head to Superdome, he looked like a zombie and looked scared crapless, as did his team as an extension of their coach. 
I was sad to know at that exact moment we were dead.  They proceeded to coach n play like they were scared crapless. Game was over before it started.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

As do most

IMHO

Al





Crean
Buzz
O'Neil

[Billy Hoyle]

The arena was desolate during the early days of Crean's tenure. The figures may claim 10k but actual attendance was likely closer to 7k as Crean stated.

And, just to preemptively rebut the stupidity, I went to every single home game of Crean's first three seasons and I remember the empty sections full of seat-backs.

Exactly.  I remember the opener in 2000-01 against South Alabama, it was a ghost town. I remember the Xavier game on Jan 2, 2000, another ghost town. I walked up to the ticket office at the BC 20 minutes before that game and ended up getting 3rd down behind the MU bench for less than $20. 400 students a game maximum for many of those games. Talk was strong urging a move back to the MECCA and they renovated with the goal of getting MU back. Hell, in 2000-01 we played Minnesota at the MECCA and probably had 7K....for a Big Ten team.  The first home game against Wisconsin in the Crean era was a defacto Bucky home game. As most schools did, attendance was based upon tickets distributed and sold, not asses in the seats. Just a fact. Crean is not exaggerating, actual attendance was poor.

[Lennys Tap]

The competition was Michigan, DePaul (who made the NCAA tournament while recruiting Wade), Bradley, Illinois State, and others.

Wade was 9th rated HS player in Illinois, which isn't great.  His test scores were bad, Michigan backed off though they could have continued to pursue him (no Big Ten rule preventing them from taking a partial qualifier).

That left Depaul, ISU, MU, and BU.

Wrong about Michigan. The Big 10, Big East, ACC, Big 12 and PAC 12 couldn't touch Wade because he was a non qualifier.

When Imari Sawyer committed to DePaul, the Blue Demons dropped Wade from their list.

That left MU, Bradley and ISU. Given the "competition" it was basically a #done deal.

[MerrittsMustache]

Saw Crean and his team right before they boarded the bus in NOLA to head to Superdome, he looked like a zombie and looked scared crapless, as did his team as an extension of their coach. 
I was sad to know at that exact moment we were dead.  They proceeded to coach n play like they were scared crapless. Game was over before it started.

They should have just unloaded the bus and stayed home 

MU wasn't scared. TC thought they could run with Kansas. They absolutely could NOT. It wasn't a matter of being "zombies." It was a matter of a coach overestimating his own team while underestimating his opponent, combined with Kansas playing their best game of the season and Diener being completely overmatched.

[Billy Hoyle]

Wrong about Michigan. The Big 10, Big East, ACC, Big 12 and PAC 12 couldn't touch Wade because he was a non qualifier.

When Imari Sawyer committed to DePaul, the Blue Demons dropped Wade from their list.

That left MU, Bradley and ISU. Given the "competition" it was basically a #done deal.

Yes, Wade was a partial (allowing him to practice and get a scholarship). The Big Ten allowed partial qualifiers as did other conferences. Crean was able to convince Father Wild to allow Wade to be admitted. Still, when Wade signed he was the considered the add-on to Blankson (Merritt was the jewel of the class), but Crean saw something in him to stick his neck out for him.

It's disgusting to see how Crean hate leads to revisionist history, trying to take away any credit the man deserves.  Compare the program to where it was when he came in to where it was when he left; no comparison. And unlike Buzz, there were no off-court issues, no bad PR for the university, no NCAA violations, no whispers about his recruiting tactics. People here act like jilted lovers.  I'll forever be thankful Bill Cords hired Tom Crean to take MU basketball to the next level and beyond.

[Spotcheck Billy]

A coach with Crean's exact resume? Sure. But I wouldn't take Crean himself back and I'm a Crean apologist. I don't think the optics of hiring the guy who left you for a better job are something I could get past.

Though the collective shockwave of all the exploding heads on Scoop would almost make it worth it.

Yup. That would make us DePaul (Dave Leitao)

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

They should have just unloaded the bus and stayed home 

MU wasn't scared. TC thought they could run with Kansas. They absolutely could NOT. It wasn't a matter of being "zombies." It was a matter of a coach overestimating his own team while underestimating his opponent, combined with Kansas playing their best game of the season and Diener being completely overmatched.

Not stating that the team wasnt completely out coached. 
I was addressing the pregame psyche, they were overwhelmed n emotionally spent,  from my observation from being around them.  It was an oh crap moment for me.  Quite sad, im sure Crean was a blur for his team that week, a pathetic mix of emotion and mania that left his team emotionally sapped and tactically confused.  Which to his credit has produced some great wins for his teams over the years, but more times than should be, lead to massive let downs in big games.

[mu03eng]

Not stating that the team wasnt completely out coached. 
I was addressing the pregame psyche, they were overwhelmed n emotionally spent,  from my observation from being around them.  It was an oh crap moment for me.  Quite sad, im sure Crean was a blur for his team that week, a pathetic mix of emotion and mania that left his team emotionally sapped and tactically confused.  Which to his credit has produced some great wins for his teams over the years, but more times than should be, lead to massive let downs in big games.

Didn't know MU had an armchair psychology 101 course

[mu03eng]

As do most

I'm willing to bet the number isn't even 25% of the fan base with O'Neal over Crean let alone a majority.

I'm not even sure "most" of Scoop would have that opinion and this place is wacky

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

I'm willing to bet the number isn't even 25% of the fan base with O'Neal over Crean let alone a majority.

I'm not even sure "most" of Scoop would have that opinion and this place is wacky

Amongst the millenials you maybe right.

Those 40 and over its Oneil and not even close. 

The millenials see a team two years removed from the NCAA tourney and listened to Crean self market as to how terrible the place was.
 
Those over 40 saw a team in the MCC with anthony Candelino bringing the ball up that hadnt seen a tourney in 10 yrs n 3 coaches. 

Its not even a comparison if you have the perspective of having been around.  Oneil had the team rolling when he left arguably better than any Crean team sans 2003.  With 3 future NBA players his final yr.  Went from a low major league to a high major league too.  Won a reg season title and all the above. 

[GGGG]

I'm not going to discount the work that Crean did because there was a malaise over the program when he took it over.

But there was a feeling of desperation when O'Neill took over.  If O'Neill had flopped, MU might be playing in the MVC right now.

[MerrittsMustache]

Not stating that the team wasnt completely out coached. 
I was addressing the pregame psyche, they were overwhelmed n emotionally spent,  from my observation from being around them.  It was an oh crap moment for me.  Quite sad, im sure Crean was a blur for his team that week, a pathetic mix of emotion and mania that left his team emotionally sapped and tactically confused.  Which to his credit has produced some great wins for his teams over the years, but more times than should be, lead to massive let downs in big games.

Your time spent "being around them" was watching them board a bus!  Everything else in your post is conjecture.

[TVDirector]

I'm over it.
Still uneasy about how he left, but that was years ago.
Wish the fella good luck and glad he came back to MU for this event.
Then he can leave, restart his career and do whatever.

Means zilch to me.

[GGGG]

I'm over it.
Still uneasy about how he left, but that was years ago.
Wish the fella good luck and glad he came back to MU for this event.
Then he can leave, restart his career and do whatever.

Means zilch to me.

Ditto.  Booing him at this event would be the height of pettiness.

[GooooMarquette]

I'm over it.
Still uneasy about how he left, but that was years ago.
Wish the fella good luck and glad he came back to MU for this event.
Then he can leave, restart his career and do whatever.

Means zilch to me.

Agree.

[The Lens]

I'm not going to discount the work that Crean did because there was a malaise over the program when he took it over.

But there was a feeling of desperation when O'Neill took over.  If O'Neill had flopped, MU might be playing in the MVC right now.

This cannot be said enough.  When KO / Deane got back to the NCAAs we knew we were more than just the Al era.  There was a modern blueprint for winning at MU. 

What always bothered me about TC was he acted like we shutdown basketball in 1977, let Glen River attend school as some foreign exchange student in the 80's and then TC started the program anew in 1999. 

Did we honor the 1994 S16 team in 2004?  Nope. 
Did we honor the 1997 CUSA title team in 2007?  Nope. 

TC knew that highlighting even the modest glory from the 90's would detract from his narrative.  I'm not trying to be petty, that's just how I see it.  The funny thing, the guy accomplished enough in 9 years that he didn't need to constantly remind of his bad it was before him (we won a conf tourney 25 months before he was hired) but he kept doing it.  That's what made him so loathsome to so many.