collapse

* Recent Posts

2024 NCAA Tournament Thread by Mu8891
[Today at 04:54:53 PM]


2024 Transfer Portal by Uncle Rico
[Today at 04:41:04 PM]


Sweet 16 presser by MuMark
[Today at 04:40:13 PM]


Dallas bars tonite by BrewCity83
[Today at 04:40:04 PM]


Where is Marquette? by Dr. Blackheart
[Today at 04:38:52 PM]


2024 Coaching Carousel by THRILLHO
[Today at 04:05:24 PM]


10 years after “Done Deal” … It’s Happening! by The Sultan of Semantics
[Today at 03:24:51 PM]

Please Register - It's FREE!

The absolute only thing required for this FREE registration is a valid e-mail address.  We keep all your information confidential and will NEVER give or sell it to anyone else.
Login to get rid of this box (and ads) , or register NOW!


Author Topic: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?  (Read 9568 times)

Tugg Speedman

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8836
Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« on: June 04, 2017, 03:32:14 PM »
Olympic officials will convene June 9 to debate both locations. The IOC's decision will be announced in September.

The problem is only LA and Paris want the 2024 games and Paris said it will not bid in 2028.  So, if LA gets 2024, the fear is no one wants the 2028 games and the Olympic Era is over.

So they are talking about the deal below just to keep the Olympic Era alive.

The average cost of the games in $9 billion and the average cost over-run is 150%

Olympic Committee Favors Paris in 2024
An agreement taking shape would put the Summer Games in Paris in 2024, with Los Angeles to follow in 2028
By Matthew Futterman
May 30, 2017 2:59 p.m. ET

https://www.wsj.com/articles/olympic-committee-favors-paris-in-2024-1496170751?utm_content=buffercb4c6&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

The International Olympic Committee is progressing toward an agreement that would give Paris the Summer Olympics in 2024 and Los Angeles the event four years later, according to people familiar with the matter.

Tugg Speedman

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8836
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2017, 03:39:03 PM »
Why is the Olympic era dying, Rio took a huge financial hit for the games.  And here are the venues just six months after the games ended.

Thank god Chicago did not get these games!

http://www.businessinsider.com/rio-olympic-venues-are-abandoned-just-6-months-after-games-2017-2/#the-olympic-golf-course-took-three-years-to-make-and-drew-much-ire-because-it-was-built-in-a-national-wildlife-reserve-now-its-run-down-and-empty-1

Aquatic Center



The Olympic golf course took three years to make and drew much ire because it was built in a national wildlife reserve. Now it's run-down and empty.


The Olympic Village, too, is a ghost town.



One practice pool has turned orange, and the structure next to it is quite literally falling apart.





The famed Maracana Stadium has gone to waste.









jficke13

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1358
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2017, 04:07:16 PM »
The Olympics won't end, but the era of hosting in a new city on a new continent, and building new infrastructure/facilities for each Olympiad is approaching its end. I think some combination of establishing a core 4 or 5 cities that rotate each Olympiad is more likely than the games ending entirely.

There are dozens of articles you can find and then copy/paste into the thread where this idea has been explored.

Of course, this will come with much wailing and gnashing of teeth as the biannual graft convention is broken.


Galway Eagle

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 10461
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2017, 06:15:15 PM »
How much building would chicago have needed to do? I know that the olympics generally screw over cities but between the multitude of universities and pro stadiums I feel like it we would've had a pretty good existing infrastructure for them
Maigh Eo for Sam

GGGG

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 25207
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2017, 06:24:36 PM »
I think the deal would give the IOC plenty of time to figure out the best way for cities / countries to manage the games starting in 2032. 

Plaque Lives Matter!

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 197
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2017, 06:45:32 PM »
How much building would chicago have needed to do? I know that the olympics generally screw over cities but between the multitude of universities and pro stadiums I feel like it we would've had a pretty good existing infrastructure for them

If i remember correctly, Grant park as we know it would have been razed for a larger stadium, due to Soldier field not being large enough (61,500). That's a lot of green space gone.

Plaque Lives Matter!

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 197
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2017, 06:48:56 PM »
If i remember correctly, Grant park as we know it would have been razed for a larger stadium, due to Soldier field not being large enough (61,500). That's a lot of green space gone.

I did not remember correctly. It would have been in Washington park, the initial plan was Grant park.

wadesworld

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 17384
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2017, 07:29:03 PM »
Can I buy Olympic stock?
Rocket Trigger Warning (wild that saying this would trigger anyone, but it's the world we live in): Black Lives Matter

warriorchick

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8067
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2017, 07:36:55 PM »
If i remember correctly, Grant park as we know it would have been razed for a larger stadium, due to Soldier field not being large enough (61,500). That's a lot of green space gone.

It wasn't big enough because the IOC said it wasn't big enough. If the IOC lowered their expectations of having huge, state-of-the-art facilities for every venue, Chicago would be fine, especially if they considered Milwaukee venues as well.
Have some patience, FFS.

GooooMarquette

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 9489
  • We got this.
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2017, 07:45:31 PM »
One significant issue IMHO is that the Olympics have gotten too big.  Just for comparison sake, there were 306 events and over 11,000 athletes in Rio in 2016, and 198 events and 6,000 athletes in Montreal in 1976.  That leads to many more venues to build, and a dramatic increase athletes and fans to move around, accommodate and protect. 
« Last Edit: June 04, 2017, 07:47:40 PM by GooooMarquette »

GGGG

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 25207
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2017, 07:50:10 PM »
One significant issue IMHO is that the Olympics have gotten too big.  Just for comparison sake, there were 306 events and over 11,000 athletes in Rio in 2016, and 198 events and 6,000 athletes in Montreal in 1976.  That leads to many more venues to build, and a dramatic increase athletes and fans to move around, accommodate and protect. 


Out of curiosity, are there more venues to build or are they just hosting more events in those venues? 

Tugg Speedman

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8836
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2017, 07:55:45 PM »
If i remember correctly, Grant park as we know it would have been razed for a larger stadium, due to Soldier field not being large enough (61,500). That's a lot of green space gone.

100,000 seat stadium, costing $366 million, in Washington Park for opening/closing ceremonies and Athletics

$75 million for a 15,000 seat Tennis Stadium and 20 outer courts with seating at Waveland Clock Tower.

$250 million to tear up the Lincon Park lagoon so it can be made for whitewater rafting.

$60 million for a massive breakfront on the lake so they could have still water for the rowing events in Monroe Harbor.

$1.1 billion for the Olympic village at the near south side at the IC tracks

Northern Island torn up to remake for BMX

Unknown costs for a stadium to host Beach Volleyball at Oak Street.

Assume the actual costs were double the made up guesses above.

And don't forget the opportunity costs.  For instance, Oak Street Beach, Lincoln Park and most of Washington Park would be closed for at least a year for construction.  Monroe Harbor can host 825 boats from 25 feet to 80 feet.  Those boat owners would have to vacate for at least a year for construction and the games.  That would create chaos in that community. 

Many more things like this if the Olympics happened.

----------

Finally, the argument that along with all this wasteful spending is a revamp of infrastructures like transportation and streets.  By now it should be established that every Olympic venue makes this claim and every Olympic fails to deliver on this in a cost effective manner.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2017, 08:07:40 PM by 1.21 Jigawatts »

Tugg Speedman

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8836
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2017, 07:58:43 PM »
The Olympics won't end, but the era of hosting in a new city on a new continent, and building new infrastructure/facilities for each Olympiad is approaching its end. I think some combination of establishing a core 4 or 5 cities that rotate each Olympiad is more likely than the games ending entirely.

There are dozens of articles you can find and then copy/paste into the thread where this idea has been explored.

Of course, this will come with much wailing and gnashing of teeth as the biannual graft convention is broken.

Yes, the problems of hosting the Olympics are easy to fix to ensure they continue.  The problem is the IOC is so corrupt and so entitled to the corruption that they will not change becuase what you suggest means less corruption/graft.

Dr. Blackheart

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 13006
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2017, 09:08:41 PM »

jficke13

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1358
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2017, 09:46:20 PM »
Yes, the problems of hosting the Olympics are easy to fix to ensure they continue.  The problem is the IOC is so corrupt and so entitled to the corruption that they will not change becuase what you suggest means less corruption/graft.

So then the end of the Olympics is not in sight?

Are you saying that a scenario where zero cities bid/agree to host due to costs is coming, but when faced with that the IOC will decide to not put the Olympics on at all?

As fewer and fewer cities bid, the IOC's bargaining position will continue to weaken. As it weakens, the IOC will be forced into adapting the system into something different than is currently used. That something may not be a rotating 4 cities, but when faced with choosing between a 100% reduction in their graft or [any other percentage lower than 100%], the IOC will opt for choice where they still get something.

Tugg Speedman

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8836
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2017, 10:03:24 PM »
So then the end of the Olympics is not in sight?

Are you saying that a scenario where zero cities bid/agree to host due to costs is coming, but when faced with that the IOC will decide to not put the Olympics on at all?

As fewer and fewer cities bid, the IOC's bargaining position will continue to weaken. As it weakens, the IOC will be forced into adapting the system into something different than is currently used. That something may not be a rotating 4 cities, but when faced with choosing between a 100% reduction in their graft or [any other percentage lower than 100%], the IOC will opt for choice where they still get something.

You assume they are reasonable.  Got it

Again, the reason the IOC is looking at award 2024 and 2028 in a package deal is no one will bid of 2028 and still pay the current levels of corruption and meet their unreasonable demands.  They are trying to swing the package deal because they think Paris (2024) and LA (2028) are still stupid enough to pay them at the current rates.

So what about 2032?  If they start cutting back on their demands and graft, the 2024 and 2028 winners will want similar breaks. 

Take away enough of the corruption and the other corrupt sports organization like the IAAF (track and field governing body) will get mad because they will not get their payola.  They might band together with other corrupt organizations like FIFA (soccer) and the WBA (Boxing) the UCI (cycling) along with many others, and offer their own Olympics cutting out the IOC altogether.

The point is the IOC has built a huge bureaucracy that needs to be fed.  This is not one or two reasonable people that know they are getting too much and will back off to keep the gravy train going.  If they cut back, others down the line have to take less.  They will not.  They will get mad at the IOC for giving them less and may seek to cut them out.

If you think of the IOC as more like a drug cartel than reasonable businesspeople, it will make more sense.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2017, 10:06:26 PM by 1.21 Jigawatts »

GooooMarquette

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 9489
  • We got this.
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2017, 10:09:11 PM »

Out of curiosity, are there more venues to build or are they just hosting more events in those venues?

I don't know the total numbers of venues. 

I suspect there is some duplicate use...but you still have more fans and athletes to accommodate, protect and move around.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2017, 11:15:01 PM by GooooMarquette »

GB Warrior

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2265
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2017, 10:52:16 PM »

jficke13

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1358
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2017, 07:08:09 AM »
You assume they are reasonable.  Got it

Again, the reason the IOC is looking at award 2024 and 2028 in a package deal is no one will bid of 2028 and still pay the current levels of corruption and meet their unreasonable demands.  They are trying to swing the package deal because they think Paris (2024) and LA (2028) are still stupid enough to pay them at the current rates.

So what about 2032?  If they start cutting back on their demands and graft, the 2024 and 2028 winners will want similar breaks. 

Take away enough of the corruption and the other corrupt sports organization like the IAAF (track and field governing body) will get mad because they will not get their payola.  They might band together with other corrupt organizations like FIFA (soccer) and the WBA (Boxing) the UCI (cycling) along with many others, and offer their own Olympics cutting out the IOC altogether.

The point is the IOC has built a huge bureaucracy that needs to be fed.  This is not one or two reasonable people that know they are getting too much and will back off to keep the gravy train going.  If they cut back, others down the line have to take less.  They will not.  They will get mad at the IOC for giving them less and may seek to cut them out.

If you think of the IOC as more like a drug cartel than reasonable businesspeople, it will make more sense.

Okay, so you don't think the end of the Olympics is in sight. This was just all sound and fury (and ruins porn) signifying nothing. Got it.

Tugg Speedman

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8836
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2017, 07:37:59 AM »
Off topic, yet seemingly relevant:       https://www.google.com/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/40155829

This applies more to the World Cup because that is being held in Qatar in 2022.

http://www.espnfc.com/blog/fifa/243/post/3138976/fifa-issues-response-after-nations-cut-ties-with-world-cup-2022-host-qatar
FIFA issued a short statement on Monday saying it spoke with "the Qatar 2022 Local Organising Committee and the Supreme Committee for Delivery & Legacy handling matters relating to the 2022 FIFA World Cup."

FIFA added: "We have no further comments for the time being."

PBRme

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 528
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2017, 08:55:55 AM »
It wasn't big enough because the IOC said it wasn't big enough. If the IOC lowered their expectations of having huge, state-of-the-art facilities for every venue, Chicago would be fine, especially if they considered Milwaukee venues as well.

If you add UW Madison and Milwaukee venues it would be a cake walk.  Other than the 100,000 seat stadium
Peace, Love, and Rye Whiskey...May your life and your glass always be full

GB Warrior

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2265
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2017, 09:14:05 AM »
If you add UW Madison and Milwaukee venues it would be a cake walk.  Other than the 100,000 seat stadium

Wasn't Madison rumored to be the target site for cycling?

Tugg Speedman

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8836
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2017, 09:30:17 AM »
If you add UW Madison and Milwaukee venues it would be a cake walk.  Other than the 100,000 seat stadium

The IOC awards the Olympics to cities, not countries or regions.  They want all the venues close to each other to give the city an "Olympic feel."  So this will not fly with the IOC.

The exception is soccer.  That can be country wide and Camp Randall (along with ND stadium, Giants stadium in NY, The Linc in Philly and the Rose Bowl in CA) were on the lists to host soccer.

Oh, and the corrupt IOC will not allow corporate names.  So Citi Field in NY (Giant/Jets home field) would have to be named "New York Field." to host an Olympic event.  That means physically removing every Citi Field sign so the IOC can sell their own naming rights,

The same was true of Wrigley (baseball and softball would have been added).  The iconic Wrigley sign would have to be physically removed so the IOC can sell their own sponsorship in its place.  That means the sign would have been removed for most of the season and the Cubs would have had a month to 6 weeks long road trip in addition to playing home games in Milwaukee or St. Louis.  Would they have won the world series under these constraints last year?

GB Warrior

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2265
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2017, 09:38:07 AM »
The IOC awards the Olympics to cities, not countries or regions.  They want all the venues close to each other to give the city an "Olympic feel."  So this will not fly with the IOC.

The exception is soccer.  That can be country wide and Camp Randall (along with ND stadium, Giants stadium in NY, The Linc in Philly and the Rose Bowl in CA) were on the lists to host soccer.

Oh, and the corrupt IOC will not allow corporate names.  So Citi Field in NY (Giant/Jets home field) would have to be named "New York Field." to host an Olympic event.  That means physically removing every Citi Field sign so the IOC can sell their own naming rights,

The same was true of Wrigley (baseball and softball would have been added).  The iconic Wrigley sign would have to be physically removed so the IOC can sell their own sponsorship in its place.  That means the sign would have been removed for most of the season and the Cubs would have had a month to 6 weeks long road trip in addition to playing home games in Milwaukee or St. Louis.  Would they have won the world series under these constraints last year?

Well they wouldn't have had Bud Selig to make them feel right at home

Spotcheck Billy

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2229
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2017, 09:42:28 AM »
Or they could just drape the signage with say, black curtains like the NCAA does to all of the beer advertising at the Bradley Center during the tournaments.

Tugg Speedman

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8836
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2017, 09:48:52 AM »
Or they could just drape the signage with say, black curtains like the NCAA does to all of the beer advertising at the Bradley Center during the tournaments.

Nope!  This is the Olympics, not some two-bit event for the unwashed like the NCAA.  They want everything tailored to them because they believe the Olympics transcend sports and is one fo the most important events humans can do.  It comes down and their own sign, which probably costs more than the sign that comes down, goes up in its place.

Why so you think it costs $20 to $50 billion to host these things (see Bejing in 2008, Sochi in 2014, both were over $50 billion in costs).  This is why they economically cripple the host city (see Rio)?  These are the most expensive over-the-top events a city can do.

Again, like above, you think the IOC is a bunch of reasonable people.  They are not.

-------------

added ... how unreasonable is the IOC? 

They demand that roads are closed so IOC officials can be whisked around to and from events and cocktail parties, complete with police escorts.  It is like having 30 to 50 POTUS in your city at the same time.   It snarls and gridlocks cities and make commuting an unbelievable nightmare.

Why do you think we have stories every Olympics of athletes getting to venues late and missing their events?  They are not careless.  It is the IOC waiting to be treated like princes and emperors that cripple commuting for everyone.

Oh, and the IOC demands the host Olympic committee do everything in their power to prevent the press covering the Olympics from these stories from getting out.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/olympics-games-lanes-cause-rush-hour-traffic-jams-in-london-7975858.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympics/9419914/London-2012-Olympics-IOC-President-Jacques-Rogge-insists-he-is-working-class-despite-VIP-treatment.html

http://www.aol.co.uk/cars/2012/05/14/london-traffic-lights-rigged-to-make-sure-city-got-olympics/
One of the biggest hindrances to the London bid was congestion in the City, so to counteract it, every car that contained a visiting IOC member was fitted with a GPS tracker.

By coordinating with the London Traffic Control Centre, which is based near Victoria Station and controls hundreds of traffic surveillance cameras, it was ensured that the IOC officials never hit a red light.


Yes the IOC made London spend millions to make sure they personally did not have the inconvenience of waiting at so much as one red light in the middle of the biggest traffic jam on the planet.



« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 10:06:03 AM by 1.21 Jigawatts »

MU Fan in Connecticut

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3437
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2017, 09:55:39 AM »
I thought the Boston bid was unique.  They planned to use mostly existing facilities at all the area colleges.  The Athletes village for housing was going to become dormitories for one of the area public universities.  For sports facilities that were missing, they were banking on making a bunch of low cost temporary structures that would all come down after the games.  Scaffolding stadium on Boston Common for beach volleyball. 
In the end, even this was more than they wanted to spend.

GGGG

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 25207
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2017, 11:10:22 AM »
Wasn't Madison rumored to be the target site for cycling?


The road race at one point was going to be out in the Blue Mounds area.

tower912

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 23349
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #28 on: June 05, 2017, 11:12:54 AM »
The end game is that there will be a few venues that are relatively permanent.    Like the Big East always going to MSG.   
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Tugg Speedman

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8836
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #29 on: June 05, 2017, 11:23:17 AM »
The end game is that there will be a few venues that are relatively permanent.    Like the Big East always going to MSG.

Will all countries contribute funds for these venues?  And if they pick China, how will it go down here that taxpayer money go to upkeep Olympic venues in China.  If they pick the US, will China and the Middle East contribute?

If the host country shoulders the financial burden alone, how will that go down?  Will taxpayers here be happy with subsidizing billions in world class sports venues in the United States so countries from around the world get to "free ride" athletes into the US for medals and glory?  When your train breaks down on your commute to work because of a lack of funding, you cool with billions going to sports stadiums in LA?  Or are you cool with sitting in traffic 60 to 90 minutes to get home because the highway funding is now going to a swimming complex for the Olympics?

And is everyone for it.  Look at how Boston balked at the Olympics.  Imagine your city was chosen and one summer every four years your home and place of work are essentially unlivable.  Curfews, mind blogging traffic, guys with automatic weapons stopping you every day as part of the security.  Wealthy tourist in for the games disrupting the daily routine.  Do you want this to happen to you regularly? 

And how about the politics?  When the cousin of a Syrian fencer blows himself up in downtown LA a few weeks before the Olympics, and that fencer expresses support for his cousin, you must allow him into the country and protect him so he can compete.  This is part of being the permanent venue leaving you with no choice on these matters.  You think everyone is ok with this?  Don't think this is possible?  Many world class distance runners are from African/Muslim countries and some have made anti-American statements.  So far this issue has not come up but we are getting closer every day.

If they pick a middle eastern country than bans gays (or Russia, which does the same), we ok with sending our athletes telling them to keep quiet about their sexual orientation?  They are a permanent venue now, we no longer have a choice in the matter.

So while this makes sense, in theory, implementing such a scheme will be difficult to impossible.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 11:34:01 AM by 1.21 Jigawatts »

warriorchick

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8067
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #30 on: June 05, 2017, 01:00:01 PM »
  Imagine your city was chosen and one summer every four years your home and place of work are essentially unlivable.  Curfews, mind blogging traffic, guys with automatic weapons stopping you every day as part of the security.  Wealthy tourist in for the games disrupting the daily routine.  Do you want this to happen to you regularly? 



Absolutely.  I would rent out my place for a crapload of money and get the hell out of town for those two weeks.
Have some patience, FFS.

jficke13

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1358
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #31 on: June 05, 2017, 01:01:48 PM »
Will all countries contribute funds for these venues?  And if they pick China, how will it go down here that taxpayer money go to upkeep Olympic venues in China.  If they pick the US, will China and the Middle East contribute?

If the host country shoulders the financial burden alone, how will that go down?  Will taxpayers here be happy with subsidizing billions in world class sports venues in the United States so countries from around the world get to "free ride" athletes into the US for medals and glory?  When your train breaks down on your commute to work because of a lack of funding, you cool with billions going to sports stadiums in LA?  Or are you cool with sitting in traffic 60 to 90 minutes to get home because the highway funding is now going to a swimming complex for the Olympics?

And is everyone for it.  Look at how Boston balked at the Olympics.  Imagine your city was chosen and one summer every four years your home and place of work are essentially unlivable.  Curfews, mind blogging traffic, guys with automatic weapons stopping you every day as part of the security.  Wealthy tourist in for the games disrupting the daily routine.  Do you want this to happen to you regularly? 

And how about the politics?  When the cousin of a Syrian fencer blows himself up in downtown LA a few weeks before the Olympics, and that fencer expresses support for his cousin, you must allow him into the country and protect him so he can compete.  This is part of being the permanent venue leaving you with no choice on these matters.  You think everyone is ok with this?  Don't think this is possible?  Many world class distance runners are from African/Muslim countries and some have made anti-American statements.  So far this issue has not come up but we are getting closer every day.

If they pick a middle eastern country than bans gays (or Russia, which does the same), we ok with sending our athletes telling them to keep quiet about their sexual orientation?  They are a permanent venue now, we no longer have a choice in the matter.

So while this makes sense, in theory, implementing such a scheme will be difficult to impossible.

Heisy:

Any chance you might indulge me by telling me why you engage in disaster fantasies involving the Olympics, muse that the "end of the Olympics is in sight" and then dismiss any suggestions of possible reforms as unthinkable because it will be business as usual forever by engaging in another disaster fantasy?

I can only assume your daily internet routine goes a little like this: Post thread with vaguely discernible position -> wait for someone to disagree -> drink sweet, sweet, life-sustaining internet conflict -> disagree with that person /repeat ad infitum.

Everyone Else:

Want to try an experiment? When Heisy creates some thread, just comment "I agree with this analysis" and see how long it takes before he melts down?

warriorchick

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8067
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #32 on: June 05, 2017, 01:03:27 PM »
Nope!  This is the Olympics, not some two-bit event for the unwashed like the NCAA.  They want everything tailored to them because they believe the Olympics transcend sports and is one fo the most important events humans can do.  It comes down and their own sign, which probably costs more than the sign that comes down, goes up in its place.

Why so you think it costs $20 to $50 billion to host these things (see Bejing in 2008, Sochi in 2014, both were over $50 billion in costs).  This is why they economically cripple the host city (see Rio)?  These are the most expensive over-the-top events a city can do.

Again, like above, you think the IOC is a bunch of reasonable people.  They are not.

-------------

added ... how unreasonable is the IOC? 

They demand that roads are closed so IOC officials can be whisked around to and from events and cocktail parties, complete with police escorts.  It is like having 30 to 50 POTUS in your city at the same time.   It snarls and gridlocks cities and make commuting an unbelievable nightmare.

Why do you think we have stories every Olympics of athletes getting to venues late and missing their events?  They are not careless.  It is the IOC waiting to be treated like princes and emperors that cripple commuting for everyone.

Oh, and the IOC demands the host Olympic committee do everything in their power to prevent the press covering the Olympics from these stories from getting out.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/olympics-games-lanes-cause-rush-hour-traffic-jams-in-london-7975858.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympics/9419914/London-2012-Olympics-IOC-President-Jacques-Rogge-insists-he-is-working-class-despite-VIP-treatment.html

http://www.aol.co.uk/cars/2012/05/14/london-traffic-lights-rigged-to-make-sure-city-got-olympics/
One of the biggest hindrances to the London bid was congestion in the City, so to counteract it, every car that contained a visiting IOC member was fitted with a GPS tracker.

By coordinating with the London Traffic Control Centre, which is based near Victoria Station and controls hundreds of traffic surveillance cameras, it was ensured that the IOC officials never hit a red light.


Yes the IOC made London spend millions to make sure they personally did not have the inconvenience of waiting at so much as one red light in the middle of the biggest traffic jam on the planet.

And let's not even mention the unbelievable human rights violations that took place in China and Russia during the construction of facilities, etc. that the IOC turned a blind eye to.
Have some patience, FFS.

Tugg Speedman

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8836
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #33 on: June 05, 2017, 01:08:24 PM »
Absolutely.  I would rent out my place for a crapload of money and get the hell out of town for those two weeks.

You and 7 million other people trying to do the same.  And its not two weeks.  It is the two weeks before and the week after.  That's five weeks.  Then a month later they have the para-Olympic games in the same venues.  So now we are at seven weeks.


#UnleashSean

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3530
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #34 on: June 05, 2017, 01:22:55 PM »
You and 7 million other people trying to do the same.  And its not two weeks.  It is the two weeks before and the week after.  That's five weeks.  Then a month later they have the para-Olympic games in the same venues.  So now we are at seven weeks.

I know this is an anti 2017 statement. But the Para Olympic games draw no where near the same numbers

Tugg Speedman

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8836
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #35 on: June 05, 2017, 03:43:53 PM »
I know this is an anti 2017 statement. But the Para Olympic games draw no where near the same numbers

True but they still keep the venues open and make commuting /living within your routine difficult while the event is ongoing.

warriorchick

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8067
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #36 on: June 05, 2017, 04:31:05 PM »
True but they still keep the venues open and make commuting /living within your routine difficult while the event is ongoing.

Plus all the good parking spots are taken.
Have some patience, FFS.

tower912

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 23349
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #37 on: June 05, 2017, 04:50:28 PM »
Will all countries contribute funds for these venues?  And if they pick China, how will it go down here that taxpayer money go to upkeep Olympic venues in China.  If they pick the US, will China and the Middle East contribute?

If the host country shoulders the financial burden alone, how will that go down?  Will taxpayers here be happy with subsidizing billions in world class sports venues in the United States so countries from around the world get to "free ride" athletes into the US for medals and glory?  When your train breaks down on your commute to work because of a lack of funding, you cool with billions going to sports stadiums in LA?  Or are you cool with sitting in traffic 60 to 90 minutes to get home because the highway funding is now going to a swimming complex for the Olympics?

And is everyone for it.  Look at how Boston balked at the Olympics.  Imagine your city was chosen and one summer every four years your home and place of work are essentially unlivable.  Curfews, mind blogging traffic, guys with automatic weapons stopping you every day as part of the security.  Wealthy tourist in for the games disrupting the daily routine.  Do you want this to happen to you regularly? 

And how about the politics?  When the cousin of a Syrian fencer blows himself up in downtown LA a few weeks before the Olympics, and that fencer expresses support for his cousin, you must allow him into the country and protect him so he can compete.  This is part of being the permanent venue leaving you with no choice on these matters.  You think everyone is ok with this?  Don't think this is possible?  Many world class distance runners are from African/Muslim countries and some have made anti-American statements.  So far this issue has not come up but we are getting closer every day.

If they pick a middle eastern country than bans gays (or Russia, which does the same), we ok with sending our athletes telling them to keep quiet about their sexual orientation?  They are a permanent venue now, we no longer have a choice in the matter.

So while this makes sense, in theory, implementing such a scheme will be difficult to impossible.
And  you said to sell Apple.    You thrive on panic.     You make your money off of gloom.   Let's say, for the sake of argument, that Los Angeles is one of the 3 permanent rotating sites.     How many large outdoor stadiums already exist in Los Angeles?    How many universities already have facilities that can be adapted?    If a new venue for, say, swimming and diving, needs to be built, how many other people are going to be able to use it to train for the olympics, how many PAC 1? championships will be held there, etc.   Yes, it will need to be subsidized, but it will be subsidized by UCLA, USC, the PAC 1?, the US Olympic committee, and the IOC, knowing that every 12 years, there is going to be an inconvenient month.   
   Same with a permanent kayaking venue.    You don't think it will be at least partially subsidized by year round use?     Track and field.  The new football stadium going up.    The Rose Bowl.          Do the same with one sports-crazy area in Europe and one in Asia.     Done.   
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Pakuni

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 9876
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #38 on: June 05, 2017, 05:16:04 PM »
It's no coincidence that the only Olympics to turn a profit in the past 20 years took place in North America (Atlanta, Salt Lake City and Vancouver ... London purportedly broke even).
Not to sound like a jingoistic snob, but the fact is some of these locations being awarded Olympics (looking at you Rio and Athens) lack the political, infrastructural and economic wherewithal to put on and support an Olympics, and they had no business winning bids.
(Side note: This, of course, matters little to the IOC. They award bids based on best bribes, not a city's actual ability to pull of the event).

I have little doubt that a Chicago Olympics would have succeeded, and I have little doubt an LA Olympics will succeed, as it did in '84. I do very much doubt the IOC's ability to recognize this and choose cities based on their ability to host as opposed to other con$ideration$.

dgies9156

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4022
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #39 on: June 05, 2017, 05:19:17 PM »
True but they still keep the venues open and make commuting /living within your routine difficult while the event is ongoing.

In Chicago, the master plan called for closing multiple lanes of the Kennedy Expressway from O'Hare International Airport to the proposed Olympic venues. The closed lanes would be available for members of the International Olympic Committee and such other designees as the IOC and the OOC in Chicago might designate.

If that wasn't bad enough, Chicago being Chicago would have had a cost overrun second to none in the developed world. We would ahve been paying for the improvements into the next Millennium.

Tugg Speedman

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8836
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #40 on: June 05, 2017, 05:53:57 PM »
And  you said to sell Apple.    You thrive on panic.     You make your money off of gloom.   Let's say, for the sake of argument, that Los Angeles is one of the 3 permanent rotating sites.     How many large outdoor stadiums already exist in Los Angeles?    How many universities already have facilities that can be adapted?    If a new venue for, say, swimming and diving, needs to be built, how many other people are going to be able to use it to train for the olympics, how many PAC 1? championships will be held there, etc.   Yes, it will need to be subsidized, but it will be subsidized by UCLA, USC, the PAC 1?, the US Olympic committee, and the IOC, knowing that every 12 years, there is going to be an inconvenient month.   
   Same with a permanent kayaking venue.    You don't think it will be at least partially subsidized by year round use?     Track and field.  The new football stadium going up.    The Rose Bowl.          Do the same with one sports-crazy area in Europe and one in Asia.     Done.

Does the IOC have underpaid people in windowless rooms workling on this?

tower912

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 23349
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #41 on: June 05, 2017, 06:52:07 PM »
Yup.   Sending out panic laden messages to sell Apple. 
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Tugg Speedman

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8836
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #42 on: June 05, 2017, 07:05:01 PM »
Yup.   Sending out panic laden messages to sell Apple.

Good luck with that ... strong uptrend.  You should be long like me and make good coin.

TAMU, Knower of Ball

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22058
  • Meat Eater certified
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #43 on: June 05, 2017, 07:27:28 PM »
I have found those that boast that they are long are often not.

We're talking about penis size right?
TAMU

I do know, Newsie is right on you knowing ball.


Eldon

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2945
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #44 on: June 05, 2017, 11:19:55 PM »
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/XFjYkrq5JU4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/XFjYkrq5JU4</a>

The only journalism that I miss in print is the Onion. 

MU Fan in Connecticut

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3437
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #45 on: June 06, 2017, 08:59:01 AM »
I know this is an anti 2017 statement. But the Para Olympic games draw no where near the same numbers

New Haven hosted the 1995 Special Olympics (obviously no where near the same scale as the Olympics) where everyone predicted doom & gloom traffic.  There turned out to be none at all, other than opening ceremony night at Yale Bowl where President Clinton and some celebrities attended and Hootie & the Blowfish at their peak played.

Tugg Speedman

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8836
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #46 on: June 09, 2017, 10:13:04 PM »


IOC earmarks Paris and LA to host 2024 and 2028 summer Olympics
June 8, 2017

https://www.ft.com/content/f683076e-4c67-11e7-919a-1e14ce4af89b

Plan to award events in unprecedented double vote as cost fears deter other bidders


muwarrior69

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 5128
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #47 on: June 10, 2017, 06:22:43 AM »
I understand wanting the best athletes competing, but I think the Olympics lost their way when they allowed professionals to compete. I am sure Baron de Coubertin is rolling in his grave and his heart buried in Greece broken by how corrupt the games have become..

warriorchick

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8067
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #48 on: June 10, 2017, 08:20:16 AM »
I understand wanting the best athletes competing, but I think the Olympics lost their way when they allowed professionals to compete. I am sure Baron de Coubertin is rolling in his grave and his heart buried in Greece broken by how corrupt the games have become..

The "amateur' Olympics were a joke.  American athletes forced to live in near poverty in order to remain eligible, while the Soviet athletes were all members of the "military" whose assigned duties were to train in their sport full-time.

Allowing professional athletes substantially leveled the playing field, as it were.
Have some patience, FFS.

Tugg Speedman

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8836
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #49 on: June 10, 2017, 08:26:47 AM »
The "amateur' Olympics were a joke.  American athletes forced to live in near poverty in order to remain eligible, while the Soviet athletes were all members of the "military" whose assigned duties were to train in their sport full-time.

Allowing professional athletes substantially leveled the playing field, as it were.

I agree .... amateur status was a borderline human rights violation.

Tugg Speedman

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8836
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #50 on: June 10, 2017, 08:43:28 AM »
Adding it to have more urban youth appeal.

3-on-3 basketball added to 2020 Tokyo Olympic program

http://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/19588090/3-3-basketball-added-2020-tokyo-olympic-program

Track cycling will add men's and women's madison races in 2020 -- in a velodrome about 80 miles outside Tokyo -- and swimming will add men's 800-meter freestyle and women's 1,500 freestyle.

Swimming also gets a 4x100-meter mixed medley relay among a broad increase in mixed gender events, including a 4x400 mixed relay on the track.

Among sports losing athlete places, weightlifting will have 64 fewer in Tokyo after reporting dozens of doping cases in retested samples from the 2008 Beijing Olympics and 2012 London Games.

Wrestling will lose 56 places, sailing and shooting will each lose 30 and swimming will have 22 fewer.

How exactly to cut 105 athletes from track and field will be discussed with the IAAF at its world championships in London in August, McConnell said. He noted that some sprint relay places typically went unused.

warriorchick

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8067
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #51 on: June 10, 2017, 08:59:09 AM »
Adding it to have more urban youth appeal.

3-on-3 basketball added to 2020 Tokyo Olympic program

http://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/19588090/3-3-basketball-added-2020-tokyo-olympic-program

Track cycling will add men's and women's madison races in 2020 -- in a velodrome about 80 miles outside Tokyo -- and swimming will add men's 800-meter freestyle and women's 1,500 freestyle.

Swimming also gets a 4x100-meter mixed medley relay among a broad increase in mixed gender events, including a 4x400 mixed relay on the track.

Among sports losing athlete places, weightlifting will have 64 fewer in Tokyo after reporting dozens of doping cases in retested samples from the 2008 Beijing Olympics and 2012 London Games.

Wrestling will lose 56 places, sailing and shooting will each lose 30 and swimming will have 22 fewer.

How exactly to cut 105 athletes from track and field will be discussed with the IAAF at its world championships in London in August, McConnell said. He noted that some sprint relay places typically went unused.

Mixed relays should be interesting.  I have competed in them in Masters swimming and it will be interesting to see which genders tend to swim which stroke.  My guess is that women will most likely swim the faster strokes (freestyle and butterfly) because the time gap between men and women tends to be closer, but of course, it might vary based on the talent on any particular team.

If the Olympics were smart (I know), the sports to cut would be the ones that require expensive venues and have limited public interest.  I am looking at you, track cycling.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2017, 10:39:37 AM by warriorchick »
Have some patience, FFS.

muwarrior69

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 5128
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #52 on: June 10, 2017, 09:54:06 AM »
Adding it to have more urban youth appeal.

3-on-3 basketball added to 2020 Tokyo Olympic program

http://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/19588090/3-3-basketball-added-2020-tokyo-olympic-program

Track cycling will add men's and women's madison races in 2020 -- in a velodrome about 80 miles outside Tokyo -- and swimming will add men's 800-meter freestyle and women's 1,500 freestyle.

Swimming also gets a 4x100-meter mixed medley relay among a broad increase in mixed gender events, including a 4x400 mixed relay on the track.

Among sports losing athlete places, weightlifting will have 64 fewer in Tokyo after reporting dozens of doping cases in retested samples from the 2008 Beijing Olympics and 2012 London Games.

Wrestling will lose 56 places, sailing and shooting will each lose 30 and swimming will have 22 fewer.

How exactly to cut 105 athletes from track and field will be discussed with the IAAF at its world championships in London in August, McConnell said. He noted that some sprint relay places typically went unused.

Then it should be played outdoors on a blacktop court.

GGGG

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 25207
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #53 on: June 10, 2017, 10:15:04 AM »
Amateurism is an anachronistic viewpoint shared by many of the upperclass in Europe and the Americas at that time.  It was portrayed as something "pure," but pretty much shut out the working class from participation.  It was an elitist viewpoint.  Still is.

Jockey

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2016
  • “We want to get rid of the ballots"
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #54 on: June 10, 2017, 10:48:07 AM »
Amateurism is an anachronistic viewpoint shared by many of the upperclass in Europe and the Americas at that time.  It was portrayed as something "pure," but pretty much shut out the working class from participation.  It was an elitist viewpoint.  Still is.

We needed all of those rowers from Harvard and Yale.

Tugg Speedman

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8836
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #55 on: June 10, 2017, 06:16:40 PM »
Mixed relays should be interesting.  I have competed in them in Masters swimming and it will be interesting to see which genders tend to swim which stroke.  My guess is that women will most likely swim the faster strokes (freestyle and butterfly) because the time gap between men and women tends to be closer, but of course, it might vary based on the talent on any particular team.

If the Olympics were smart (I know), the sports to cut would be the ones that require expensive venues and have limited public interest.  I am looking at you, track cycling.

Rowing. Whitewater kayaking, equestrian and sailing.

4everwarriors

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 15995
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #56 on: June 10, 2017, 08:33:30 PM »
I'll do da breaststroke, hey?
"Give 'Em Hell, Al"

tower912

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 23349
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #57 on: June 10, 2017, 08:42:30 PM »
Had you figured for team handball.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

MU Fan in Connecticut

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3437
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #58 on: June 12, 2017, 09:59:20 AM »
We needed all of those rowers from Harvard and Yale.

They just held the 152nd annual Yale-Harvard Regatta over the weekend in New London, CT.

Eldon

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2945
Re: Is The End Of The Olympics In Sight?
« Reply #59 on: July 31, 2017, 05:41:33 PM »
Paris gets 2024, Los Angeles gets 2028 (IOC feared no other city would want it in 2028)

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/los-angeles-awarded-olympics-ioc-hits-panic-button-212927822.html