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Author Topic: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors  (Read 28987 times)

Benny B

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2017, 09:55:54 AM »
I don't disagree with much of what you say here, but I can't stress enough that this is not serious legislation. It's legislation that was passed with little expectation of it going anywhere, by a state senate that simply wants to cast blame for Illinois' two years without a budget on Madigan and Rauner. They're passing something so they can go back to their constituents and say "Look, we tried, but Rauner and the House won't work with us."

This.  This, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this.  Normally, it's fun to pick apart Pakuni's arguments, but this is probably the most intelligent, rock solid, iron-clad post that you'll see on Scoop all year.

IOW, it's a freakin' publicity stunt, period.
Wow, I'm very concerned for Benny.  Being able to mimic Myron Medcalf's writing so closely implies an oncoming case of dementia.

forgetful

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2017, 12:18:14 PM »
In general a law like this would be a good thing, but it would have to be done at the national level. 

Right now the "carried interest" loophole makes no sense.  This proposed law though, makes even less sense.  I agree with Pakuni, that this is another example of the all to common modern effort of passing laws that will be DOA for the sole purpose of politicking and publicity. 

I liken it to the modern effort of scheduling more and more meetings with no intent on doing anything to demonstrate that you are working a ton of hours and deserve your salary. 

Badgerhater

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #27 on: June 01, 2017, 02:11:27 PM »
Perhaps the IL governor and legislature needs to be locked in a Super 8 with no air conditioning this summer in Decatur eating only Taco Bell and with only one roll toilet paper available per person until they get their budget differences figured out.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2017, 02:13:33 PM by Badgerhater »

jesmu84

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #28 on: June 01, 2017, 03:04:00 PM »
Can we stop with the politics?

Triggered much?

Benny B

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #29 on: June 01, 2017, 04:11:15 PM »
Perhaps the IL governor and legislature needs to be locked in a Super 8 with no air conditioning this summer in Decatur eating only Taco Bell and with only one roll toilet paper available per person until they get their budget differences figured out.

Problem with that is most hotels in Illinois aren't accepting reservations from state business because they haven't been paid in months... some haven't been paid in years.

Maybe there's a campground somewhere?
Wow, I'm very concerned for Benny.  Being able to mimic Myron Medcalf's writing so closely implies an oncoming case of dementia.

GB Warrior

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #30 on: June 01, 2017, 04:22:26 PM »
I'm really impressed with our ability to maintain the level of civil discourse and contain all name calling to the main board.

buckchuckler

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #31 on: June 01, 2017, 04:45:07 PM »
I'm really impressed with our ability to maintain the level of civil discourse and contain all name calling to the main board.

Eh, politics is kind of tangential to this conversation.  This is more the "all politicians are idiots" conversation, with which most can agree. 

forgetful

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #32 on: June 01, 2017, 07:48:50 PM »
Problem with that is most hotels in Illinois aren't accepting reservations from state business because they haven't been paid in months... some haven't been paid in years.

Maybe there's a campground somewhere?

I'm sure there are some empty cells in some prisons somewhere and they can use the prison cafeteria outside of lunch hours for meetings.  That's about all they deserve.

Don't contaminate the campgrounds...good people use those.

rocket surgeon

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #33 on: June 01, 2017, 07:51:13 PM »
seriously, from a non-partisan standpoint, will moody's downgrade to one click above junk even cause illinois to blink?   those in the know, had to have known this was coming, but with moody doing this, doesn't it make illinois economic and budget woes even worse?  it's like with companies like moody's, who needs enemies

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-01/illinois-bonds-cut-to-one-step-above-junk-by-s-p-over-stalemate
don't...don't don't don't don't

MU82

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #34 on: June 01, 2017, 08:22:10 PM »
seriously, from a non-partisan standpoint, will moody's downgrade to one click above junk even cause illinois to blink?   those in the know, had to have known this was coming, but with moody doing this, doesn't it make illinois economic and budget woes even worse?  it's like with companies like moody's, who needs enemies

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-01/illinois-bonds-cut-to-one-step-above-junk-by-s-p-over-stalemate

It definitely is not a good sign, rocket.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

forgetful

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #35 on: June 01, 2017, 09:34:32 PM »
seriously, from a non-partisan standpoint, will moody's downgrade to one click above junk even cause illinois to blink?   those in the know, had to have known this was coming, but with moody doing this, doesn't it make illinois economic and budget woes even worse?  it's like with companies like moody's, who needs enemies

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-01/illinois-bonds-cut-to-one-step-above-junk-by-s-p-over-stalemate

Part of the problem is that much of the nation (states, cities etc.) are in dire situations.  Even areas that people think would be good, are terrible.  The city of Dallas is on the verge of bankruptcy.  Kansas was near bankrupt (may still be).  Louisiana is terrible...and on and on.  The question is will it have any actual effect.

buckchuckler

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #36 on: June 02, 2017, 12:13:38 AM »
I'm sure there are some empty cells in some prisons somewhere and they can use the prison cafeteria outside of lunch hours for meetings.  That's about all they deserve.

Don't contaminate the campgrounds...good people use those.

Hmm, I doubt Illinois has a surplus of jail cells.

rocket surgeon

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #37 on: June 02, 2017, 05:11:32 AM »
Part of the problem is that much of the nation (states, cities etc.) are in dire situations.  Even areas that people think would be good, are terrible.  The city of Dallas is on the verge of bankruptcy.  Kansas was near bankrupt (may still be).  Louisiana is terrible...and on and on.  The question is will it have any actual effect.

whenever i see a list of top ten or twenty most desirable places to live or fastest growing cities, 40-50% of them are in texas, quite a few in florida, a few in arizona, then greenville south carolina has come up along with idaho.  my thinking would be because of good jobs, low taxes and quality of life.  the main reason the areas you mention are in dire straits is they are spending more than they are taking in...duh.  the squabble then becomes, who gives up what or who needs to pay for what?  now that's a tricky one because there are a few areas of this country that have lost a lot of it's "paying customers" due to mainly cost of living. 

  getting back to the title of this thread-i'm sure the "investors" will either find their loopholes or just leave illinois altogether.   
don't...don't don't don't don't

mu03eng

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #38 on: June 02, 2017, 06:57:19 AM »
I typically try to avoid hyperbole and sky is falling predictions, but I do start to wonder if we are seeing a death spiral for the state of Illinois. If you look at the debt owned by Illinois at all levels (city, county, state, etc) it is enormous compared to free cash flow from tax revenue and assets. This is relatively good economic times, unemployment is low and wages are starting to increase so tax revenues should be at near high tide and yet they still can't cover their costs and have to borrow and/or welsh on debts. What happens if we have another economic slow down? Tack on that their tax policy is one that incentivizes those with money (businesses and the rich) to leave and what little tax base they had is on very shaky ground.

Aside from the free babysitting, this is why I keep trying to convince my parents to move to Wisconsin from the Chicago burbs, things just aren't going to get better so get out now while it's manageable.
"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

jsglow

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #39 on: June 02, 2017, 07:58:58 AM »
I typically try to avoid hyperbole and sky is falling predictions, but I do start to wonder if we are seeing a death spiral for the state of Illinois. If you look at the debt owned by Illinois at all levels (city, county, state, etc) it is enormous compared to free cash flow from tax revenue and assets. This is relatively good economic times, unemployment is low and wages are starting to increase so tax revenues should be at near high tide and yet they still can't cover their costs and have to borrow and/or welsh on debts. What happens if we have another economic slow down? Tack on that their tax policy is one that incentivizes those with money (businesses and the rich) to leave and what little tax base they had is on very shaky ground.

Aside from the free babysitting, this is why I keep trying to convince my parents to move to Wisconsin from the Chicago burbs, things just aren't going to get better so get out now while it's manageable.

Keep up the pressure eng.  We're outta here at our earliest reasonable opportunity because we believe your thought process is sound.  If I may ask a personal question, are your parents fully retired yet?  Cause making a late short term job change might delay that for a little while.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2017, 08:01:52 AM by jsglow »

warriorchick

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #40 on: June 02, 2017, 08:02:50 AM »
I typically try to avoid hyperbole and sky is falling predictions, but I do start to wonder if we are seeing a death spiral for the state of Illinois. If you look at the debt owned by Illinois at all levels (city, county, state, etc) it is enormous compared to free cash flow from tax revenue and assets. This is relatively good economic times, unemployment is low and wages are starting to increase so tax revenues should be at near high tide and yet they still can't cover their costs and have to borrow and/or welsh on debts. What happens if we have another economic slow down? Tack on that their tax policy is one that incentivizes those with money (businesses and the rich) to leave and what little tax base they had is on very shaky ground.

Aside from the free babysitting, this is why I keep trying to convince my parents to move to Wisconsin from the Chicago burbs, things just aren't going to get better so get out now while it's manageable.

As a person who is of Welsh decent, I am offended by this post.
Have some patience, FFS.

mu_hilltopper

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #41 on: June 02, 2017, 08:03:31 AM »
Question for the flatlanders -  What are the specific issues you've personally dealt with during the past couple years of not having a state budget?   Minus the obvious late-payment issues to vendors, I'd be curious what impact it has on daily life ..

.. and what impact a possible bankruptcy would have on citizens.

mu03eng, what "things are getting worse" for you, what do you expect to be less "manageable" in the future, that you'd find Wisconsin to be better?

mu03eng

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #42 on: June 02, 2017, 08:12:29 AM »
Keep up the pressure eng.  We're outta here at our earliest reasonable opportunity because we believe your thought process is sound.  If I may ask a personal question, are your parents fully retired yet?  Cause making a late short term job change might delay that for a little while.

They are both fully retired, but their main concern is the house values because shockingly no one seems to want to move INTO Illinois :) I think I need to sit down with them at some point and walk through the logic of it because I don't why they are holding on. They've been in the house for 20 years, they are going to get more than they owe, so who knows.
"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

jsglow

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #43 on: June 02, 2017, 08:28:48 AM »
They are both fully retired, but their main concern is the house values because shockingly no one seems to want to move INTO Illinois :) I think I need to sit down with them at some point and walk through the logic of it because I don't why they are holding on. They've been in the house for 20 years, they are going to get more than they owe, so who knows.

Best Illinois R/E market in several years. They are free agents. Now eng.

jsglow

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #44 on: June 02, 2017, 08:30:45 AM »
Question for the flatlanders -  What are the specific issues you've personally dealt with during the past couple years of not having a state budget?   Minus the obvious late-payment issues to vendors, I'd be curious what impact it has on daily life ..

.. and what impact a possible bankruptcy would have on citizens.

mu03eng, what "things are getting worse" for you, what do you expect to be less "manageable" in the future, that you'd find Wisconsin to be better?

Nothing too big. Other than for a year it was a real challenge to get auto tags renewed until they fully implemented online.

GGGG

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #45 on: June 02, 2017, 08:37:44 AM »
whenever i see a list of top ten or twenty most desirable places to live or fastest growing cities, 40-50% of them are in texas, quite a few in florida, a few in arizona, then greenville south carolina has come up along with idaho.  my thinking would be because of good jobs, low taxes and quality of life.  the main reason the areas you mention are in dire straits is they are spending more than they are taking in...duh.  the squabble then becomes, who gives up what or who needs to pay for what?  now that's a tricky one because there are a few areas of this country that have lost a lot of it's "paying customers" due to mainly cost of living. 

  getting back to the title of this thread-i'm sure the "investors" will either find their loopholes or just leave illinois altogether.   


Those types of places are nice if you have a job and an income.  However Texas, South Carolina and Arizona are ranked 38th, 40th and 42nd when it comes to percentage of households with incomes under the poverty rate.

GGGG

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #46 on: June 02, 2017, 08:38:27 AM »
BTW, Illinois is wholly and completely f*cked no matter who is in charge politically.  Death spiral is a good way to describe it.

mu03eng

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #47 on: June 02, 2017, 08:40:29 AM »
mu03eng, what "things are getting worse" for you, what do you expect to be less "manageable" in the future, that you'd find Wisconsin to be better?

Couple of examples from my family (parents live in Illinois and my brother is a teach in Illinois though lives in Wisconsin)

-People don't want to move into the $hit$how that is Illinois and as a consequence home values amongst other things are going down.
-With an improving economy the purchasing power of Illinois residents is going down because more of their revenue is going to taxes at the city, county, and state level.
-My brother, as a teacher in Illinois, has no access to social security for retirement per the way Illinois has built it's public employee retirement plan. However the retirement plan is unfunded to the tune of billions of dollars meaning his retirement is in significant jeopardy.

I recognize these are anecdotal but I don't think they are too far outside the norm.
"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

mu03eng

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #48 on: June 02, 2017, 08:57:40 AM »
As a person who is of Welsh decent, I am offended by this post.

It's not my fault, someone Welsh probably designed the QWERTY keyboard and put the S so close to the C.
"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

Benny B

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #49 on: June 02, 2017, 09:11:42 AM »
BTW, Illinois is wholly and completely f*cked no matter who is in charge politically.  Death spiral is a good way to describe it.

Bingo.  It doesn't take a CPA to look at the state's financials and see the death spiral.  Hell, I'm pretty sure by the time you get to page 6 there's no more numbers, only various poses of a robed skeleton carrying a scythe.

Fortunately, my wife is cashing out (i.e. taking a refund of) her pension contributions as she no longer works for the state... compared to what she would have received had she worked until retirement, she's literally getting pennies on the dollar (something like 4-5% presuming she lived to 75-80 years old).  Unfortunately, among state employees of similar age and service time who will work to retirement, my wife's 4-5% is going to look like a Powerball jackpot relative to what they eventually receive.

It's not my fault, someone Welsh probably designed the QWERTY keyboard and put the S so close to the C.


Wow, I'm very concerned for Benny.  Being able to mimic Myron Medcalf's writing so closely implies an oncoming case of dementia.

 

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