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Author Topic: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors  (Read 28988 times)

muwarrior69

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« Last Edit: May 31, 2017, 12:11:13 PM by muwarrior69 »

warriorchick

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2017, 12:20:46 PM »
Will this law actually pass in Illinois?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/2017/05/29/illinois_039privilege_tax039_idea_forgets_citizens039_right_to_leave_411507.html

It's Illinois. Our legislature has passed things far more stupid than this.

By the way, any of y'all want to buy my house?
Have some patience, FFS.

Juan Anderson's Mixtape

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2017, 12:22:01 PM »
Hmm...this thread seems to violate the no politics rule.

GB Warrior

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2017, 12:22:59 PM »
Hmm...this thread seems to violate the no politics rule.

It's actually a real estate thread. Gonna buy up all the good real estate in Kenosha

mu03eng

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2017, 12:32:21 PM »
"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

Jockey

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2017, 01:12:37 PM »
It's actually a real estate thread. Gonna buy up all the good real estate in Kenosha

The FIBs have already done that.

mu_hilltopper

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2017, 01:27:19 PM »
Remarkably, it's possible to discuss tax policy without calling people libtards or heartless conservatives. 

Anyone feel lucky?

mu03eng

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2017, 01:32:59 PM »
Remarkably, it's possible to discuss tax policy without calling people libtards or heartless conservatives. 

Anyone feel lucky?

"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

Pakuni

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2017, 01:34:29 PM »
Will this law actually pass in Illinois?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/2017/05/29/illinois_039privilege_tax039_idea_forgets_citizens039_right_to_leave_411507.html

1. It's not a tax on investors, it's a tax on fund manager fees.
2. It's not going anywhere. Rauner would never sign it, even in the unlikely event it passes the House.
3. Even if it somehow is enacted - and it won't be - the legislation itself recognizes that it likely won't survive a legal challenge.
4. Welcome to Illinois, where politicians on both sides of the aisle introduce legislation not because it makes sense or helps the state, but to make the other side - or even the other chamber - look bad.
5. Better this, IMO, than in a state where lawmakers think it's a good idea for untrained and unpermitted people to carry around hidden firearms.

This doesn't feel like a real estate thread.

StillAWarrior

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2017, 01:36:06 PM »
Remarkably, it's possible to discuss tax policy without calling people libtards or heartless conservatives. 

Anyone feel lucky?

I'd submit that it's "possible" to discuss all politics without doing so.  However, time and time again posters on this board have demonstrated a complete inability to stifle such urges.  Accordingly, you have banned political discussion on the 'Scoop.  I'm curious why you're inclined to make an exception here.
Never wrestle with a pig.  You both get dirty, and the pig likes it.

mu03eng

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2017, 02:08:34 PM »
I'd submit that it's "possible" to discuss all politics without doing so.  However, time and time again posters on this board have demonstrated a complete inability to stifle such urges.  Accordingly, you have banned political discussion on the 'Scoop.  I'm curious why you're inclined to make an exception here.

If I could take a guess it's because, contrary to prior evidence, Hilltopper is still optimistic that there is humanity left in this board.

"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

DegenerateDish

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2017, 02:53:33 PM »
I'm not taking any sides here in the political area, but this past month is the first time I've actually seriously considered moving our family out of Illinois. Enough was enough a long time ago, and I don't understand (common sense wise) how a state can continue to operate in this manner, and then come up with suggested fixes that continue to punish the people who stay in the state, rather than provide fixes that spur people and businesses to want to move here.

I don't care about red/blue, it's an all of Illinois lawmaker issue.

I know this thread will get locked soon, but Illinois is the Jay Cutler of states.

mu03eng

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2017, 03:01:36 PM »
This is a classic example of why I have a huge issue with governments and how they work. The stated policy is to make sure hedge fund managers pay their fair share and prevent them from using a loophole in the law....by making a new law on top of the ones that are already flawed.

I have opinion's on the fair share discussion that are not appropriate discussions for the Superbar, however for the methodology discussion let's accept that as a legitimate objective. Why is the modus operandi to create more laws to achieve an outcome as opposed to fixing the original law? Why is the answer to bad bureaucracy more bureaucracy?

Further more, is it a reasonable position for a government policy to pick winners and losers, regardless of who those winners and losers may be?
"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

mu03eng

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2017, 03:04:05 PM »
I'm not taking any sides here in the political area, but this past month is the first time I've actually seriously considered moving our family out of Illinois. Enough was enough a long time ago, and I don't understand (common sense wise) how a state can continue to operate in this manner, and then come up with suggested fixes that continue to punish the people who stay in the state, rather than provide fixes that spur people and businesses to want to move here.

I don't care about red/blue, it's an all of Illinois lawmaker issue.

I know this thread will get locked soon, but Illinois is the Jay Cutler of states.

Just goes to show you that some lab experiments in the Laboratories of Democracy can show you what NOT to do.
"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

Pakuni

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2017, 03:19:01 PM »
Further more, is it a reasonable position for a government policy to pick winners and losers, regardless of who those winners and losers may be?

Doesn't government do this all the time? Isn't that among the purposes of government?
A pro-environment policy makes winners out of conservationists and clean energy companies, and losers out of the fossil fuel industry.
A pro-voucher policy makes winners out of private and charter schools and losers out of public schools.
A policy that's "tough" on drugs makes winners out of prisons and losers out of addicts and rehab centers.
Government has always picked winners and losers.

Pakuni

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2017, 03:26:30 PM »
I'm not taking any sides here in the political area, but this past month is the first time I've actually seriously considered moving our family out of Illinois. Enough was enough a long time ago, and I don't understand (common sense wise) how a state can continue to operate in this manner, and then come up with suggested fixes that continue to punish the people who stay in the state, rather than provide fixes that spur people and businesses to want to move here.

I don't care about red/blue, it's an all of Illinois lawmaker issue.

I know this thread will get locked soon, but Illinois is the Jay Cutler of states.

I don't disagree with much of what you say here, but I can't stress enough that this is not serious legislation. It's legislation that was passed with little expectation of it going anywhere, by a state senate that simply wants to cast blame for Illinois' two years without a budget on Madigan and Rauner. They're passing something so they can go back to their constituents and say "Look, we tried, but Rauner and the House won't work with us."

The fact that this is occurring is in itself a massive indictment of Illinois' toxic political environment right now, one that's not likely to change until Rauner is knocked out of office in 2018.  (Note: I don't say that to cast all the blame on Rauner ... there's blame enough for all. But both he and Madigan are too dug in at this point and compromise between them seems unlikely).
« Last Edit: May 31, 2017, 03:38:24 PM by Pakuni »

DegenerateDish

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2017, 03:38:52 PM »
I don't disagree with much of what you say here, but I can't stress enough that this is not serious legislation. It's legislation that was passed with little expectation of it going anywhere, by a state senate that simply wants to cast blame for Illinois' two years without a budget on Madigan and Rauner. They're passing something so they can back back to their constituents and say "Look, we tried, but Rauner and the House won't work with us."

The fact that this is occurring is in itself a massive indictment of Illinois' toxic political environment right now, one that's not likely to change until Rauner is knocked out of office in 2018.  (Note: I don't say that to cast all the blame on Rauner ... there's blame enough for all. But both he and Madigan are two dug in at this point and compromise between them seems unlikely).

I took it off the rails (in regards to the original subject), as I meant in general, not specific to this particular legislation. I'm overall fatigued with everything...corruption, property taxes, budget stalemate, income taxes, cronyism. I know it's all been going on for a while, and what you're saying is exactly right, nothing is even on the realm of changing for at least another year and a half, no one is going to give in on either side, everyone is stubborn to the point where nothing continues to get accomplished to move forward.

buckchuckler

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2017, 03:47:34 PM »
I took it off the rails (in regards to the original subject), as I meant in general, not specific to this particular legislation. I'm overall fatigued with everything...corruption, property taxes, budget stalemate, income taxes, cronyism. I know it's all been going on for a while, and what you're saying is exactly right, nothing is even on the realm of changing for at least another year and a half, no one is going to give in on either side, everyone is stubborn to the point where nothing continues to get accomplished to move forward.

Totally agree.  Our neighbors to the north are looking better and better.  Not Canada, but Wisconsin.  I feel that before long I will be calling anyone driving faster than 65 a stupid FIB.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2017, 04:02:25 PM by buckchuckler »

GB Warrior

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2017, 04:13:58 PM »
I don't disagree with much of what you say here, but I can't stress enough that this is not serious legislation. It's legislation that was passed with little expectation of it going anywhere, by a state senate that simply wants to cast blame for Illinois' two years without a budget on Madigan and Rauner. They're passing something so they can go back to their constituents and say "Look, we tried, but Rauner and the House won't work with us."

The fact that this is occurring is in itself a massive indictment of Illinois' toxic political environment right now, one that's not likely to change until Rauner is knocked out of office in 2018.  (Note: I don't say that to cast all the blame on Rauner ... there's blame enough for all. But both he and Madigan are too dug in at this point and compromise between them seems unlikely).

You're kind if you think we're getting a lot accomplished up here in Wisconsin. It's better than IL, but only by default.

You've described my view of the "House" of every governing body (state & federal). It's basically one big circle-jerk to show that they're "very active" but blaming someone else for why we can't commit it to law. Progress is not the goal, but the illusion of progress for the sheeple that are their constituents. In fact, it's BETTER that it doesn't become law, because then we can't see all of the catastrophic results!

mu03eng

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2017, 04:15:11 PM »
Doesn't government do this all the time? Isn't that among the purposes of government?
A pro-environment policy makes winners out of conservationists and clean energy companies, and losers out of the fossil fuel industry.
A pro-voucher policy makes winners out of private and charter schools and losers out of public schools.
A policy that's "tough" on drugs makes winners out of prisons and losers out of addicts and rehab centers.
Government has always picked winners and losers.

Everyone of your examples is government choosing the rules of the game and then establishing it for all based on a policy that is ultimately beneficial(or at least neutral) for all citizens.

Take the environmental example, if the policy is that output from any source of pollution must contain less than X% carcinogens because of the negative impact on public health if not met, then you aren't picking winners and losers because the goal is the greater good, not eliminating an industry. Presumably the coal industry could still exist they would just have to meet that policy. However if you make policy to eliminate the coal industry even though it's continued existence is not a public harm, you are not being punitive. When the policies become punitive because you don't like a group/person/industry etc and not actually about any greater public good, that's when it's picking winners and losers

Let's assume we live in a world where this tax proposal might actually pass, this policy is targeting one group of people because the established policy didn't achieve some outcome. It is targeting one group of people while leaving the loophole in place for other groups, it is punitive. And ultimately, the new rules will allow the target of the policy to avoid it while negatively impacting people that weren't the target.

For the record, this complex bureaucracy around tax policy is exactly why I favor a much simpler, uniform tax policy. The rich will always be able to escape complex tax policy because they have the means and the incentive to do so. If the tax policy were simply all revenue, regardless of source, is taxed at X% then there are no winners and losers as the rules are the same for all.
"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

jesmu84

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2017, 07:43:02 PM »
I'm not taking any sides here in the political area, but this past month is the first time I've actually seriously considered moving our family out of Illinois. Enough was enough a long time ago, and I don't understand (common sense wise) how a state can continue to operate in this manner, and then come up with suggested fixes that continue to punish the people who stay in the state, rather than provide fixes that spur people and businesses to want to move here.

I don't care about red/blue, it's an all of Illinois lawmaker issue.

I know this thread will get locked soon, but Illinois is the Jay Cutler of states.

Why actually fix something when those in power/monied positions can keep getting theirs and kick the crap-can further down the road? That's what everyone is doing at every turn of government right now.

Of course it's a red/blue issue. It always is to them.

MU82

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2017, 07:53:53 PM »
I'm not taking any sides here in the political area, but this past month is the first time I've actually seriously considered moving our family out of Illinois. Enough was enough a long time ago, and I don't understand (common sense wise) how a state can continue to operate in this manner, and then come up with suggested fixes that continue to punish the people who stay in the state, rather than provide fixes that spur people and businesses to want to move here.

I don't care about red/blue, it's an all of Illinois lawmaker issue.

I know this thread will get locked soon, but Illinois is the Jay Cutler of states.

That's how I thought when I bolted Ill for NC, which at that time was being heralded as the centerpiece of the "progressive New South." Within a year, the ruling party was swept away in the anti-Obama backlash and NC has gone to become a national laughingstock.

So be careful what you ask for!
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

mu_hilltopper

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2017, 07:30:41 AM »
Wait, did we just go a day with civil policy discussion?


mu03eng

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Re: Illinois Senate passes Privilege Tax on investors
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2017, 08:03:04 AM »
Wait, did we just go a day with civil policy discussion?



"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."