Chones

[jsglow]

Yes the Chones situation was more complex, but both voluntarily left their teams mid season for what they felt were in their best interests professionally.  I'm focusing more on the similarity of the actions they faced with their current team.

Certainly true, but as JB said, Chones had one fleeting shot, take it or leave it, while the other deviated from a well established norm that apart from injury risk guaranteed the same monetary outcome.

Here's one thing I know would have happened.  Had Al McGuire been McCaffrey's coach, he'd say 'Get your arse to practice kid.'

Okay, and JB just went over the top!

[GooooMarquette]

Chones had a fleeting shot...AND his family would have continued to starve if he hadn't gone.

McCaffrey's family was doing just fine, and would have continued to do fine even if he blew his ACL in the bowl.

Not just the individual's career, but the family's bare bones survival.  Kinda different, no?

[MU82]

I've enjoyed the conversation.

I say both were absolutely right to go when they did. I doubt either felt like a "quitter."

I went to college to pursue a professional career in my chosen field, which was journalism. If the NY Times or Sports Illustrated had offered me a good job in February of my senior year, I wouldn't have said, "I'd take it, but I'm getting a scholarship to be on staff at the Marquette Tribune, and I'd feel like a quitter if I left ... so thanks, but no thanks."

[Galway Eagle]

Would the NBA not have taken Chones at the end of the year?

[Pakuni]

The moral of the story is, it's perfectly fine for an athlete to place his/her own interests ahead of his/her team's, so long as a bunch of doofuses on the internet (who never have to deal with the consequences of your decision) think your reasoning is solid.

[jsglow]

Would the NBA not have taken Chones at the end of the year?

I don't know the answer to that bags.  I believe, but am not certain, that the NBA was strongly resisting the early entrant push initiated by the ABA.  There was lots of anti-trust stuff going on.  Remember that Chones was only the second player to go 'hardship'.  It was really a big deal.  Look at the coverage the Tribune gave it.

[Pakuni]

I don't know the answer to that bags.  I believe, but am not certain, that the NBA was strongly resisting the early entrant push initiated by the ABA.  There was lots of anti-trust stuff going on.  Remember that Chones was only the second player to go 'hardship'.  It was really a big deal.  Look at the coverage the Tribune gave it.

The Spencer Haywood ruling, which paved the way for early entrants, came in March 1971.
Chones left MU in February 1972.
So he'd have been able to enter the NBA had he wanted to stay at Marquette. He left because the ABA was offering him a big pot of money. Which is OK.

I think, though, if we're going to compare Chones and McCaffery, let's remember that Chones left his team at a time when there were plenty of meaningful games to be played, and a possible championship to be won.
McCaffery bailed on a meaningless bowl game.

[Jay Bee]

Pakuni 2prison

[Galway Eagle]

The Spencer Haywood ruling, which paved the way for early entrants, came in March 1971.
Chones left MU in February 1972.
So he'd have been able to enter the NBA had he wanted to stay at Marquette. He left because the ABA was offering him a big pot of money. Which is OK.

I think, though, if we're going to compare Chones and McCaffery, let's remember that Chones left his team at a time when there were plenty of meaningful games to be played, and a possible championship to be won.
McCaffery bailed on a meaningless bowl game.

See now this may just be me, but given that there was two months left in the season I personally would have fulfilled that season with the team and then gone to the NBA. If he was as good as y'all say then he certainly would've been drafted

[Nukem2]

See now this may just be me, but given that there was two months left in the season I personally would have fulfilled that season with the team and then gone to the NBA. If he was as good as y'all say then he certainly would've been drafted

Actually, it was only 4 or 5 regular season games.

[GooooMarquette]

See now this may just be me, but given that there was two months left in the season I personally would have fulfilled that season with the team and then gone to the NBA. If he was as good as y'all say then he certainly would've been drafted

He would have been drafted, but given the novelty of early entrants back then, it isn't certain he would have been chosen that season.  Underclassmen simply weren't on NBA teams' radar screens.  WAY different from how things work today.  And remember - his family's fridge was empty.  Try convincing them to forego getting certain food now, to a good possibility of food a few months later.

[MU82]

The Spencer Haywood ruling, which paved the way for early entrants, came in March 1971.
Chones left MU in February 1972.
So he'd have been able to enter the NBA had he wanted to stay at Marquette. He left because the ABA was offering him a big pot of money. Which is OK.

I believe this is true, Pakuni. Back then, in the wake of the Haywood ruling, an underclassman had to prove he had financial "hardship," which Chones certainly could have done. He probably would have been drafted a couple of months after the Marquette season, and started receiving money shortly thereafter.

I think, though, if we're going to compare Chones and McCaffery, let's remember that Chones left his team at a time when there were plenty of meaningful games to be played, and a possible championship to be won.
McCaffery bailed on a meaningless bowl game.

This, too, is true. Which is why I think this is interesting. Most MU types can't look at this objectively. They like Chones and want to defend his stance while they either have no opinion on McCaffrey or, for some illogical reason, they dislike him. But the fact is that Chones quit on a team that could have won it all; McCaffrey quit on a team that could have won the Sun Bowl (and, indeed, did just that without him).

[jsglow]

See now this may just be me, but given that there was two months left in the season I personally would have fulfilled that season with the team and then gone to the NBA. If he was as good as y'all say then he certainly would've been drafted

Bags, respectfully you're using your 21st century mindset back in 1970.  Nothing was certain except the stack of cash on the table. 

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

See now this may just be me, but given that there was two months left in the season I personally would have fulfilled that season with the team and then gone to the NBA. If he was as good as y'all say then he certainly would've been drafted

Easy for any of us to say.....

[GGGG]

Chones had a fleeting shot...AND his family would have continued to starve if he hadn't gone.

McCaffrey's family was doing just fine, and would have continued to do fine even if he blew his ACL in the bowl.

Not just the individual's career, but the family's bare bones survival.  Kinda different, no?

You're exaggerating.  And no I don't view it any different.

[tower912]

Al made the right choice.  Chones made the right choice.  Mc made the right choice for himself.

[GooooMarquette]

You're exaggerating.  And no I don't view it any different.

What am I exaggerating? 

I wasn't the one who started the story about Al looking into Chones' refrigerator and telling him to leave.  If you think it's an exaggeration, take it up with Hologram Al.

And as for underclassmen being viewed completely differently in the early '70s, you obviously aren't familiar with how much things have changed if you think I'm exaggerating that.  Bill Walton had an even more successful career at UCLA than Chones did...and he stayed until his eligibility was up after the '74 season, two years after Chones left.  Underclassmen just weren't on the NBA's radar.

[GGGG]

What am I exaggerating? 

I wasn't the one who started the story about Al looking into Chones' refrigerator and telling him to leave.  If you think it's an exaggeration, take it up with Hologram Al.

And as for underclassmen being viewed completely differently in the early '70s, you obviously aren't familiar with how much things have changed if you think I'm exaggerating that.  Bill Walton had an even more successful career at UCLA than Chones did...and he stayed until his eligibility was up after the '74 season, two years after Chones left.  Underclassmen just weren't on the NBA's radar.

His family would have survived.  You're exaggerating.

[GooooMarquette]

His family would have survived.  You're exaggerating.

You're speculating.

[Gato78]

Chones family was poor. Very sad story. The refrigerator quote is true. ABA forced this with draft during season. Chones had first $1 million contract. ABA wanted first pick to sign and dangled all that money in front of Chones. Al acted as his agent. As sad as MU fans were that he was leaving, everyone understood it was an obvious choice.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Chones family was poor. Very sad story. The refrigerator quote is true. ABA forced this with draft during season. Chones had first $1 million contract. ABA wanted first pick to sign and dangled all that money in front of Chones. Al acted as his agent. As sad as MU fans were that he was leaving, everyone understood it was an obvious choice.

https://www.facebook.com/AlMcGuiresWarriors/posts/839602582818893:0

[dgies9156]

There were a couple of factors that entered into the Mr. Chones decision, as I understand it. First, the ABA and the NBA were in a salary war and competing for the best talent. The ABA offer was on the table at the moment Mr. Chones signed. There was no guarantee it would be there at year end -- those offers I believe had time fuses on them.

Secondly, his own coach was telling him to take the offer. Al more than anyone knew the situation and he was pushing Mr. Chones to go pro. Al knew that we were good but not THAT good without Mr. Chones at center. Yet he put the needs of Mr. Chones' family ahead of those of Marquette University.

If we fast forward several decades, Henry Ellenson had a similar decision. Admittedly, it was at the end of the season, but he could leave our team in the lurch last year and go pro or he could stick around as we would have been probably Top 20 and maybe Top 10 last year. All I heard on this board was he would be ridiculous not to take the money -- and his family was much better off than the Chones family was.

Look, anyone alive in 1971-1972 who was following Marquette basketball knew how devastating Mr. Chones' decision was. We knew we just lost a legitimate shot at a national championship. Many of us were heartbroken as we knew opportunities like what Marquette had that year rarely come along (except, perhaps, in Westwood). We also knew that with Maurice Lucas about to join the team, we had the potential to really dethrone UCLA.

Strange as it may sound on this board, there are some things more important than basketball. Most of us come from middle class families and have never experienced worrying about where our next meal is coming from. We tend to be more selfish and look at things from our vantage point -- wanting an MU National Championship -- and not from Mr. Chones' standpoint.

Now, had the NCAA allowed a reasonable stipend or some sort of pay..........

[GGGG]

I don't think anyone is questioning Chones' decision. 

[bilsu]

Would the NBA not have taken Chones at the end of the year?

He signed with the ABA team, who had the guaranteed number 1 pick before the draft. They offered Chones big money to sign before both drafts, so they did not get into a war with which ever NBA team that drafted him. ABA league's fight for respectability led the league doing things behind the scenes. They were perfectly willing to sign Chones and keep it quite so Chones could keep playing. McGuire was not willing to break the rules and told Chones he could no longer play if he signed, but also told him to take the deal. McGuire was not willing to risk Chones not receiving guaranteed money and he also was not willing to risk his reputation on getting caught violating NCAA rules. I blame the ABA for Chones leaving early.

[MU82]

Just for the record, I absolutely don't blame Chones for bolting and I would have done so myself.

All I was throwing out there for discussion was that Chones DID quit on a potential NCAA championship team. I don't think he was wrong to do so. Nor do I think McCaffrey was "wrong" to "quit" on a Sun Bowl team or Henry was "wrong" to "quit" on a potential top-20 MU team.

College kids with legitimate professional aspirations need to take care of No. 1. That's why they go to college - to better themselves.

Now don't get me started about coaches who talk "loyalty" 24/7 and then bolt in the middle of a contract.