collapse

* Resources


UDM 4

* 2016-17 SOTG Standings


2016-17 Season SoG Tally
Fischer4
Howard3
Johnson3
Rowsey3
Hauser2
Cheatham1
Heldt1
Reinhardt1
Wilson1

'15-16 * '14-15 * '13-14
'12-13 * '11-12 * '10-11

* Big East Standings

* Recent Posts

Open Practice by MUMountin
[Today at 12:12:07 AM]


Recruiting as of 10/15/17 by Osiris
[October 21, 2017, 11:47:05 PM]


Good News for The Chief by Wolverine QG Warrior
[October 21, 2017, 11:23:21 PM]


Marquette NBA Thread by Herman Cain
[October 21, 2017, 08:44:53 PM]


UWM "rivalry" renewed! by mupanther
[October 21, 2017, 08:33:44 PM]


NM by GooooMarquette
[October 21, 2017, 05:26:09 PM]


Herro go again by TinyTimsLittleBrother
[October 21, 2017, 04:14:44 PM]

Please Register - It's FREE!

The absolute only thing required for this FREE registration is a valid e-mail address.  We keep all your information confidential and will NEVER give or sell it to anyone else.
Login to get rid of this box (and ads) , or register NOW!

* Next up: Sun OCt 22 - UW-Milwaukee Hurricane Relief exhibition

Marquette
19
Marquette vs.

UW-MKE

Date/Time: Oct 22, 4 p.m. CT
TV: None?
Wiki entry for 2017-18
Warriors
77

Author Topic: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?  (Read 2667 times)

Marcus92

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1258
Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
« on: May 19, 2017, 01:51:53 AM »
Luke Fischer, at 62.1%.

Ahead of players such as Roy Hibbert, Derrick Coleman and Alonzo Mourning.

Not saying Luke was anywhere near as dominant. But when he took a shot, he was about as efficient as it gets.

BTW, the only other Marquette players currently in the top 100 are DJO (40th at 53.2%) and Lazar Hayward (75th at 50.9%). Markus and Sam may have something to say about that before they're done.
"Let's get a green drink!" Famous last words

auburnmarquette

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 116
    • Value Add Explaination
Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2017, 02:32:04 AM »
Great stuff. If Markus had never taken a 2-point shot his eFG% for the season would have finished at 81%
http://www.pudnersports.com/ for my blogs or articles and www.valueaddbasketball.com for for current and historic rankings.

Jay Bee

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 5435
    • Late Night Hoops
Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2017, 07:06:53 AM »
Luke Fischer, at 62.1%.

Ahead of players such as Roy Hibbert, Derrick Coleman and Alonzo Mourning.

Not saying Luke was anywhere near as dominant. But when he took a shot, he was about as efficient as it gets.

BTW, the only other Marquette players currently in the top 100 are DJO (40th at 53.2%) and Lazar Hayward (75th at 50.9%). Markus and Sam may have something to say about that before they're done.

I'd call it "effective" or "better shooter" vs efficient, but yes, Luke was great

The ranks look odd, though. What players are you excluding? (E.g. Clearly you're excluding guys who haven't played X minutes or taken X shots or something similar)

warriorchick

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4460
Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2017, 09:06:27 AM »
Luke Fischer, at 62.1%.

Ahead of players such as Roy Hibbert, Derrick Coleman and Alonzo Mourning.

Not saying Luke was anywhere near as dominant. But when he took a shot, he was about as efficient as it gets.

BTW, the only other Marquette players currently in the top 100 are DJO (40th at 53.2%) and Lazar Hayward (75th at 50.9%). Markus and Sam may have something to say about that before they're done.

Not to slam Fischy, but 99% of his shots were no-footers, and he still missed way more than he should have.  I am assuming that is a statistic that's not measured, but I would want to know what the average distance from the goal was for him vs. everyone else in the top ten.
Have some patience, FFS.

Jay Bee

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 5435
    • Late Night Hoops
Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2017, 09:17:17 AM »
Not to slam Fischy, but 99% of his shots were no-footers, and he still missed way more than he should have.  I am assuming that is a statistic that's not measured, but I would want to know what the average distance from the goal was for him vs. everyone else in the top ten.

False. Per hoop-math, 55% of his attempts were at the rim. He made an insane 82.8% of them (team made 67%). 2pt jumpers (not a layup or dunk) he hit a strong 42.3% on (team was 37.3%).

His shooting was great, and he put up a healthy amount of attempts

TAMU Grimes

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 10287
  • Wojo's Warriors
Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2017, 09:18:25 AM »
Not to slam Fischy, but 99% of his shots were no-footers, and he still missed way more than he should have.  I am assuming that is a statistic that's not measured, but I would want to know what the average distance from the goal was for him vs. everyone else in the top ten.

They are almost all Centers who almost exclusively shot no footers.

Post shots are a lot more difficult than fans give credit for. Making 62.1% of them is an amazing accomplishment. Fischer was an elite offensive player. Unfortunately he was only an average rebounder (for his size) and a poor defender.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

warriorchick

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4460
Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2017, 12:24:47 PM »
False. Per hoop-math, 55% of his attempts were at the rim. He made an insane 82.8% of them (team made 67%). 2pt jumpers (not a layup or dunk) he hit a strong 42.3% on (team was 37.3%).

His shooting was great, and he put up a healthy amount of attempts

If this was true, I stand corrected, but I am certain that he missed at least 2-3 shots per game because his layup didn't fall when he could have dunked it.
Have some patience, FFS.

brewcity77

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 15244
  • Alan Bykowski
    • Brew City Ball
Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2017, 12:53:59 PM »
If this was true, I stand corrected, but I am certain that he missed at least 2-3 shots per game because his layup didn't fall when he could have dunked it.

Luke played 89 games for Marquette and missed a total of 252 shots (2.8 per game). If what you are certain of were true, then virtually every shot he ever missed in his entire career was a layup that didn't fall when he could have dunked it.

As I don't have the exact numbers Jay Bee is using in front of me, I can extrapolate that approximately 300 of his 666 career attempts for Marquette were 2-point jumpers, and he missed 127 of those. That means he only missed 125 shots in his career that were at the rim, an average of at most 1.4 per game.

It seems unlikely that every one of those was a missed layup that he could have dunked, maybe half of them were layups that could have been dunks, so figure about 0.7 times per game. Understandably frustrating, but probably not nearly as glaring a deficit as it felt at times.

Marcus92

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1258
Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2017, 12:57:14 PM »
The ranks look odd, though. What players are you excluding? (E.g. Clearly you're excluding guys who haven't played X minutes or taken X shots or something similar)

It's from Sports Reference. I know you're not a fan, Jay Bee you've commented a number of times about issues with statistical formulas, etc. But even I can calculate eFG%. That's about as simple a stat as there is. Hard to screw that one up.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/conferences/big-east/leaders/efg-pct-player-career.html

Minimum 400 total field goals made, 4 field goals made per game played.
"Let's get a green drink!" Famous last words

Marcus92

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1258
Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2017, 01:22:40 PM »
Post shots are a lot more difficult than fans give credit for. Making 62.1% of them is an amazing accomplishment.

Agreed. A lot of fans focus on the distance alone. Yes, 2-footers and 5-footers are easy shots without a defender to contend with. They're anything but gimmes when there's another big man (say 6-10, 250 pounds, 7+ foot wingspan) leaning on you with as much of his weight as possible and trying to block it from less than a foot away.
"Let's get a green drink!" Famous last words

warriorchick

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4460
Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2017, 02:06:37 PM »
Luke played 89 games for Marquette and missed a total of 252 shots (2.8 per game). If what you are certain of were true, then virtually every shot he ever missed in his entire career was a layup that didn't fall when he could have dunked it.

As I don't have the exact numbers Jay Bee is using in front of me, I can extrapolate that approximately 300 of his 666 career attempts for Marquette were 2-point jumpers, and he missed 127 of those. That means he only missed 125 shots in his career that were at the rim, an average of at most 1.4 per game.

It seems unlikely that every one of those was a missed layup that he could have dunked, maybe half of them were layups that could have been dunks, so figure about 0.7 times per game. Understandably frustrating, but probably not nearly as glaring a deficit as it felt at times.

What about last season?   I think that's one area where he regressed from when he first started playing for us. Last year I thought he looked hesitant to power it up, perhaps because of his shoulder.

It could just be perception, just like you notice miss free throw shots more.
Have some patience, FFS.

Marcus92

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1258
Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2017, 02:21:12 PM »
What about last season?   I think that's one area where he regressed from when he first started playing for us. Last year I thought he looked hesitant to power it up, perhaps because of his shoulder.

It could just be perception, just like you notice miss free throw shots more.

While his minutes and scoring per game were down slightly last season, Luke posted career highs for offensive rating (124.5, good for 56th best in the country according to KenPom), usage (20.6%), eFG% (64.7%), offensive rebounding percentage (13.3%, or 48th best nationally), defensive rebounding percentage (16.3%), assist rate (9.5%), turnover rate (13.6%, more accurately a career low) and steal percentage (1.4%).

Luke certainly had his limitations. But he won't be easily replaced.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 02:25:33 PM by Marcus92 »
"Let's get a green drink!" Famous last words

oldwarrior81

  • Team Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 380
Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2017, 02:25:24 PM »
interesting that their history of the BigEast ignores the early years prior to 1986.  I think Ewing only had one season shooting less than 63% on a few more shot attempts.
I guess post-1985 is referring to the 3-pt era.


also what kind of efg% would Chris Mullin put up if the 3 was in play back in the day?    He ended his St John's career as a 55% shooter from the field.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 02:27:26 PM by oldwarrior81 »

Marcus92

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1258
Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2017, 02:31:57 PM »
interesting that their history of the BigEast ignores the early years prior to 1986. I guess they are only referring to the 3-pt era. I think Ewing only had one season shooting less than 63%.

Patrick Ewing and others are notable omissions. I'm not quite sure why; without the 3-point shot, effective field goal percentage is the exact same as field goal percentage.

BTW, Ewing shot 62.0% for his college career at Georgetown. Ranking him just behind the aforementioned Luke Fischer.
"Let's get a green drink!" Famous last words

oldwarrior81

  • Team Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 380
Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2017, 03:17:00 PM »
Mutombo was 64.4% career from '89-91, which falls within the date range.

I guess the key part of that list is:
Statistical coverage for seasons prior to 1992-93 is mostly complete, however some statistics may be incomplete.

Jay Bee

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 5435
    • Late Night Hoops
Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2017, 03:52:08 PM »
Mutombo was 64.4% career from '89-91, which falls within the date range.

I guess the key part of that list is:
Statistical coverage for seasons prior to 1992-93 is mostly complete, however some statistics may be incomplete.

Aka "sports-reference is badly flawed and if you get your data from there, bad move."

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 7471
Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2017, 04:46:58 PM »
While his minutes and scoring per game were down slightly last season, Luke posted career highs for offensive rating (124.5, good for 56th best in the country according to KenPom), usage (20.6%), eFG% (64.7%), offensive rebounding percentage (13.3%, or 48th best nationally), defensive rebounding percentage (16.3%), assist rate (9.5%), turnover rate (13.6%, more accurately a career low) and steal percentage (1.4%).

Luke certainly had his limitations. But he won't be easily replaced.

Or, as a few Luke-hatin' Scoopers might say, "He'll be easily replaced by a box of rocks."
Unity.

Mr. Sand-Knit

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 769
Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2017, 06:08:47 AM »
Or, as a few Luke-hatin' Scoopers might say, "He'll be easily replaced by a box of rocks."

Plz put me into that category🙋

Efg is great but is one mere stat.  Luke was the classic score 20, give up 30 player.  Arguably the most horrid defender in America

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 7471
Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2017, 06:13:55 AM »
Plz put me into that category🙋

Efg is great but is one mere stat.  Luke was the classic score 20, give up 30 player.  Arguably the most horrid defender in America

Arguably, the most horrid poster on Scoop.
Unity.

tower912

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 11255
Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2017, 07:20:35 AM »
Plz put me into that category🙋

Efg is great but is one mere stat.  Luke was the classic score 20, give up 30 player.  Arguably the most horrid defender in America
To borrow from The Rock, way to know your role.
Real Warriors don't whine.

Jay Bee

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 5435
    • Late Night Hoops
Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2017, 07:26:19 AM »
Minimum 400 total field goals made, 4 field goals made per game played.

In other words, a lot of the best players who leave early after a year or two are excluded. So when you say "career eFG% in Big East history", you need to understand what it's really saying..

Justin Patton was excellent - 69.2% - but he gets ignored as a Big East player in your list.

TSmith34

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1459
Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2017, 10:02:05 AM »
Arguably, the most horrid poster on Scoop.
Is it arguable at this point?

Herman Cain

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3643
  • 9-9-9
Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2017, 01:05:22 PM »
Not to slam Fischy, but 99% of his shots were no-footers, and he still missed way more than he should have.  I am assuming that is a statistic that's not measured, but I would want to know what the average distance from the goal was for him vs. everyone else in the top ten.
I think your confusing Luke with STjr and his missed bunnies  8-)

Marcus92

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1258
Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2017, 12:06:22 PM »
In other words, a lot of the best players who leave early after a year or two are excluded. So when you say "career eFG% in Big East history", you need to understand what it's really saying..

Justin Patton was excellent - 69.2% - but he gets ignored as a Big East player in your list.

Appreciate the clarification but that's true of every career statistical list. Players like Tyler Hansbrough and J.J. Redick are among the Top 25 career scorers in NCAA college basketball history. Kevin Durant, meanwhile, is absent, because he only stayed for one year.

Another example: MU's all-time scoring list. Was Jerel McNeal a better scorer than George Thompson? Jerel scored more points during his career, but played one more year and 43 more games than Thompson did. And while Dwyane Wade doesn't even crack the Top 25, he's easily the greatest scorer I've seen at Marquette in almost 30 years.

It's not a perfect list. No list is. (Personally, I'm baffled as to why a site focused on college basketball statistics would be missing player data from within the past 30 years.) But I still think it's interesting and wanted to share it here.
"Let's get a green drink!" Famous last words

Jay Bee

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 5435
    • Late Night Hoops
Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2017, 02:08:17 PM »
Appreciate the clarification but that's true of every career statistical list. Players like Tyler Hansbrough and J.J. Redick are among the Top 25 career scorers in NCAA college basketball history. Kevin Durant, meanwhile, is absent, because he only stayed for one year.

No, different issues. Durant isn't on the list because he didn't score the points. Patton isn't even though he did shoot the eFG%. That's why it's important to note the minimums, exclusions, etc.

It's not a perfect list. No list is. (Personally, I'm baffled as to why a site focused on college basketball statistics would be missing player data from within the past 30 years.) But I still think it's interesting and wanted to share it here.

Don't be baffled. I've warned about using that site before.