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Author Topic: Graduate Transfer Options?  (Read 7793 times)

TAMU Eagle

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Re: Graduate Transfer Options?
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2017, 12:35:33 AM »
If people are curious, I have still been tracking grad transfers just for my own amusement. There are currently 16 left on the market that I would consider "high major worthy." All that means is I think they could land at a high major (not necessarily a good high major) and at least crack the rotation. Those 16 are:

Cameron Johnson SG from Pittsburgh
Mark Alstork SF from Wright State
James Daniel III PG from Howard
Geno Thorpe PG from USF
MiKyle McIntosh PF from Illinois State
Rashad Muhammad SG from Miami (FL)
Wesley Myers PG from Maine
Akoy Agau PF from Georgetown
Zach Lofton SG from Texas Southern
Kameron Rooks C from Cal
Qiydar Davis SG from Louisiana Tech
Jevon Thomas PG from Seton Hall
Dwight Coleby PF from Kansas
Darien Williams PF from St. John's
Lexus Williams PG from Valparaiso
Bryan Alberts PG from Gonzaga

Of those, Cameron Johnson is the only one I am confident would start for Marquette and he has already trimmed his list.

Mark Alstork is the only other one that I think would start for Marquette.

The next 8 are the only ones I would feel confident about cracking Marquette's rotation, one of whom is ineglible to transfer to Marquette (Agau). And another who has had multiple disciplinary issues at multiple schools (Muhammad).

The remaining 6 I think could play high major ball (4 of them already did) but not at a program at our level.

Basically, the pickings are real slim at this point and most of them have already trimmed lists. Its not like Wojo is ignoring quality players. The only ones I personally would like for Marquette are Johnson, Thorpe, and McIntosh. But Wojo knows the teams needs a lot better than I do.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 12:37:48 AM by TAMU Eagle »
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

1.21 Jigawatts

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Re: Graduate Transfer Options?
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2017, 07:56:32 AM »
Good list ... thanks for this.

Many schools have graduation in the next few weeks, do you think this list expands greatly from here?

Also, if memory serves, Jamil Wilson was a June transfer and others came in the summer as well.

I agree that this list suggests nothing here for MU, but there is still time to find a good fit between now and September.

Foreign player?

TAMU Eagle

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Re: Graduate Transfer Options?
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2017, 08:27:57 AM »
Good list ... thanks for this.

Many schools have graduation in the next few weeks, do you think this list expands greatly from here?

Also, if memory serves, Jamil Wilson was a June transfer and others came in the summer as well.

I agree that this list suggests nothing here for MU, but there is still time to find a good fit between now and September.

Foreign player?

It will grow.  Not substantially. There are still new transfers announcing every day.  But in the last two weeks I've only seen one who is high major worthy and he barely qualified.  At this point it's mostly end of the bench type players.

Unless a stud becomes available,  I would much rather have an empty chair.  We are big game hunting in the class of 2018. Would rather have the schollies for them
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

1.21 Jigawatts

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Re: Graduate Transfer Options?
« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2017, 08:36:07 AM »
It will grow.  Not substantially. There are still new transfers announcing every day.  But in the last two weeks I've only seen one who is high major worthy and he barely qualified.  At this point it's mostly end of the bench type players.

Unless a stud becomes available,  I would much rather have an empty chair.  We are big game hunting in the class of 2018. Would rather have the schollies for them

An empty chair is also fine if Wojo wants to use it for a mid-season transfer in December.  See Luke and Frolling.

brewcity77

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Re: Graduate Transfer Options?
« Reply #29 on: May 19, 2017, 09:09:53 AM »
The highlighted part ... long argued here that banking a scholarship represents failure.  Never know who regresses and who gets injured.  So, if a "serviceable" name pops up, you take it.

Not saying there is a name available, but leaving a seat empty never improves a team.

I disagree completely. In addition to the ability to add midyear players, we've never seen a time where players are so demanding of immediate PT. I'd rather leave a seat empty than create unrest with my current roster. Filling a scholarship just for the sake of it could look like recruiting over a player you want for the long run.

Generally, you're only going to play about 8-10 players. Having 1-2 bodies in case of injury is a nice luxury, but even if you fall to 7 players, that's a deep enough rotation as long as there's versatility in those guys on the bench.

If I could script a perfect roster in today's environment, it would feature 10 active players that all get minutes, 1 transfer that is sitting out, and one homegrown redshirt. It's enough bodies to weather 2-3 injuries, enough practice guys, and you have the "break in case of emergency" options of taking off the redshirt or adding an unexpected transfer or decommit from another school if someone suddenly becomes available with the 13th scholarship.

TAMU Eagle

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Re: Graduate Transfer Options?
« Reply #30 on: May 19, 2017, 09:23:03 AM »
An empty chair is also fine if Wojo wants to use it for a mid-season transfer in December.  See Luke and Frolling.

You don't have to tell me. You are the one who is saying that Wojo has failed because he hasn't filled the 13th scholarship this year.

But unless a Caleb Swanigan type player wants to transfer mid season...or there are a lot of transfer between now and December....I wouldn't expect a mid-season transfer. Would lead to unbalanced classes and uses all our scholarships for 2018....where again we are big game hunting.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

Sultan of Slap O' Fivin'

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Re: Graduate Transfer Options?
« Reply #31 on: May 19, 2017, 09:42:37 AM »
Let's say that Geno Thorpe for instance is very interested in Marquette and Wojo takes him as a graduate transfer.  According to Heisey, this is automatically better than the "failure" of leaving the seat empty.

Best case scenario: He plays well in a 20 mpg role.  Defends well.  Scores better than he has before.  Provides senior leadership and mentors the younger players.

Worse case scenario:  He ends up being a 10-15 mpg guy.  Takes those minutes away from Anim or Elliott who grow frustrated with their roles.  He ends up shooting about the same as he always have (not very efficient).  He doesn't really like his role and isn't really "all in." 

You can see why leaving the seat open may be a better option than filling it. 

jsglow

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Re: Graduate Transfer Options?
« Reply #32 on: May 19, 2017, 09:53:44 AM »
I think the 13th can work a little like brew suggested.  Didn't we use one a couple of years ago to reward Michael Mache his Senior year?  And wasn't that awarded after the chance for a last second mid-year transfer ended?  Seriously, family resources aside would it be terrible to give it to Cam Marotta for second semester next year?  We know he and his teammates would appreciate the gesture knowing full well that its availability his Senior year wouldn't be guaranteed.  Maybe Kim reciprocates the gesture with a 5 figure donation to Blue/Gold?  I personally think that would be a great outcome.

1.21 Jigawatts

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Re: Graduate Transfer Options?
« Reply #33 on: May 19, 2017, 09:53:48 AM »
I disagree completely. In addition to the ability to add midyear players, we've never seen a time where players are so demanding of immediate PT. I'd rather leave a seat empty than create unrest with my current roster. Filling a scholarship just for the sake of it could look like recruiting over a player you want for the long run.

Generally, you're only going to play about 8-10 players. Having 1-2 bodies in case of injury is a nice luxury, but even if you fall to 7 players, that's a deep enough rotation as long as there's versatility in those guys on the bench.

If I could script a perfect roster in today's environment, it would feature 10 active players that all get minutes, 1 transfer that is sitting out, and one homegrown redshirt. It's enough bodies to weather 2-3 injuries, enough practice guys, and you have the "break in case of emergency" options of taking off the redshirt or adding an unexpected transfer or decommit from another school if someone suddenly becomes available with the 13th scholarship.

Again ... to "bank a schollie" means to give up and actively NOT look.  To put it in a vault because you planning to NOT use it.  This represents a failure.
(search the site, this exact argument was first brought up in 2012, and several times since, including exactly one year ago,  Most agreed the definition of "bank" means to consciously decide not to use it and that represented a failure.  But since you all want to disagree with my because I wrote it, you now have decided that this is all wrong.)

Never stop recruiting and never stop looking.  Yes, as you get better the options become more limited, but you don't give up or "bank."  And 13 players of the quality you want is always better than 12 or 11.

The rest has nothing to do with grad transfers alone, it applies to all players and is not necessary to bring up.

Sultan of Slap O' Fivin'

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Re: Graduate Transfer Options?
« Reply #34 on: May 19, 2017, 09:55:34 AM »
Again ... to "bank a schollie" means to give up and actively NOT look. 


That is *your* definition of how others are using that word.  Stop implying that everyone uses the same interpretation. 

JamilJaeJamailJrJuan

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Re: Graduate Transfer Options?
« Reply #35 on: May 19, 2017, 09:57:36 AM »
McIntosh would be a nice add, but I doubt we're interested.  TAMU - have you seen McIntosh actually connected with anyone?
Oh, how a few short weeks can change things:

I would take the Rick SLU program right now.

QuentinsWorld

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Re: Graduate Transfer Options?
« Reply #36 on: May 19, 2017, 09:59:30 AM »
Again ... to "bank a schollie" means to give up and actively NOT look.  To put it in a vault because you planning to NOT use it.  This represents a failure.
(search the site, this exact argument was first brought up in 2012, and several times since, including exactly one year ago,  Most agreed the definition of "bank" means to consciously decide not to use it and that represented a failure.  But since you all want to disagree with my because I wrote it, you now have decided that this is all wrong.)

Never stop recruiting and never stop looking.  Yes, as you get better the options become more limited, but you don't give up or "bank."  And 13 players of the quality you want is always better than 12 or 11.

The rest has nothing to do with grad transfers alone, it applies to all players and is not necessary to bring up.

So what is a scholarship that goes unused, but not because the coaches just decided, "Well, what the hell, that's enough recruiting for this year, let's take a vacation and come back refreshed and ready to go in November!" called?  One that coaches tried really hard to fill with a player they thought would fit/help the program but just couldn't land that player/those players?  What do you call that scholarship?

1.21 Jigawatts

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Re: Graduate Transfer Options?
« Reply #37 on: May 19, 2017, 09:59:46 AM »
Let's say that Geno Thorpe for instance is very interested in Marquette and Wojo takes him as a graduate transfer.  According to Heisey, this is automatically better than the "failure" of leaving the seat empty.

Best case scenario: He plays well in a 20 mpg role.  Defends well.  Scores better than he has before.  Provides senior leadership and mentors the younger players.

Worse case scenario:  He ends up being a 10-15 mpg guy.  Takes those minutes away from Anim or Elliott who grow frustrated with their roles.  He ends up shooting about the same as he always have (not very efficient).  He doesn't really like his role and isn't really "all in." 

You can see why leaving the seat open may be a better option than filling it.

I've been here for 10 years and the general consensus is you never stop recruiting.  If you can find guys that can do better than your current guys, and improve the team, you get them.  You never settle for "these are our guys" and treat them like fragile snowflakes because they might get upset that better players come in and take their minutes away from them.

Or, what you are saying is Crean was wrong in 2003 to get the one-year transfer, Robert Jackson because it retarded the growth of Freshman Chris Grimm.

1.21 Jigawatts

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Re: Graduate Transfer Options?
« Reply #38 on: May 19, 2017, 10:01:03 AM »

That is *your* definition of how others are using that word.  Stop implying that everyone uses the same interpretation.

That's the problem, we make up meanings for words and then we change it again and again and again.

1.21 Jigawatts

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Re: Graduate Transfer Options?
« Reply #39 on: May 19, 2017, 10:04:52 AM »
So what is a scholarship that goes unused, but not because the coaches just decided, "Well, what the hell, that's enough recruiting for this year, let's take a vacation and come back refreshed and ready to go in November!" called?  One that coaches tried really hard to fill with a player they thought would fit/help the program but just couldn't land that player/those players?  What do you call that scholarship?

Every scholarship is a work in process.  There is no finality to them like "bank" suggests.   They are always available for the right player anytime the right player shows up.

So stop saying the last schollie is "banked"  Wojo is out looking for that last player.  Maybe he finds him this month, or next month, this summer, as a mid-season transfer this winter or next year.  You insult Wojo by saying he is "banking it."

barfolomew

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Re: Graduate Transfer Options?
« Reply #40 on: May 19, 2017, 10:06:48 AM »
Again ... to "bank a schollie" means to give up and actively NOT look.  To put it in a vault because you planning to NOT use it.  This represents a failure.

You choose strange hill on which to die, kemosabe.


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Benny B

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Re: Graduate Transfer Options?
« Reply #41 on: May 19, 2017, 10:15:52 AM »
Foreign player?

Really?  Hopefully Wojo is scouting the University of Wolverhampton basketball team for grad transfers... after all, they're no longer using peach baskets anymore.


Any foreign player who isn't already signed by now probably isn't making it through the clearinghouse before the season starts.
Wow, I'm very concerned for Benny.  Being able to mimic Myron Medcalf's writing so closely implies an oncoming case of dementia.

Sultan of Slap O' Fivin'

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Re: Graduate Transfer Options?
« Reply #42 on: May 19, 2017, 10:24:35 AM »
I've been here for 10 years and the general consensus is you never stop recruiting.  If you can find guys that can do better than your current guys, and improve the team, you get them.  You never settle for "these are our guys" and treat them like fragile snowflakes because they might get upset that better players come in and take their minutes away from them.

Or, what you are saying is Crean was wrong in 2003 to get the one-year transfer, Robert Jackson because it retarded the growth of Freshman Chris Grimm.


Man you are terrible at comprehending English.  Or maybe you just like to argue.

Nothing I said above is inconsistent with my opinion that Jackson was anything but a fantastic idea. See if you can figure out why...

TAMU Eagle

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Re: Graduate Transfer Options?
« Reply #43 on: May 19, 2017, 10:43:27 AM »
So.... This is an argument about what banking a scholarship means? We've really outscooped ourselves this time.

So stop saying the last schollie is "banked"  Wojo is out looking for that last player.  Maybe he finds him this month, or next month, this summer, as a mid-season transfer this winter or next year.  You insult Wojo by saying he is "banking it."

You do realize that if Wojo fills the scholarship next year that means he banked the scholarship this year right?  Hell,  even waiting for a mid season transfer is banking the scholarship for a mid season transfer.

Based on the fact that we haven't been linked with any transfers or high school seniors since Morrow committed,  my guess is that Wojo is currently banking the scholarship so he can focus on 2018 recruiting.  I also guess that if a stud player becomes available and is interested in Marquette that Wojo will reevaluate his plan to bank it. This is not a failure.  It is a strategic decision because recruiting time is a limited resource and wasting time recruiting an end is the bench player to fill your 13th scholarship comes with huge opportunity costs.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

79Warrior

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Re: Graduate Transfer Options?
« Reply #44 on: May 19, 2017, 10:50:47 AM »
So.... This is an argument about what banking a scholarship means? We've really outscooped ourselves this time.

You do realize that if Wojo fills the scholarship next year that means he banked the scholarship this year right?  Hell,  even waiting for a mid season transfer is banking the scholarship for a mid season transfer.

Based on the fact that we haven't been linked with any transfers or high school seniors since Morrow committed,  my guess is that Wojo is currently banking the scholarship so he can focus on 2018 recruiting.  I also guess that if a stud player becomes available and is interested in Marquette that Wojo will reevaluate his plan to bank it. This is not a failure.  It is a strategic decision because recruiting time is a limited resource and wasting time recruiting an end is the bench player to fill your 13th scholarship comes with huge opportunity costs.

Semantics. Is he "banking" because he wants to hold the scholarship intentionally and was not looking at anyone or is he "banking" because he was unable to get someone he wanted.

TAMU Eagle

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Re: Graduate Transfer Options?
« Reply #45 on: May 19, 2017, 10:54:36 AM »
McIntosh would be a nice add, but I doubt we're interested.  TAMU - have you seen McIntosh actually connected with anyone?

He's been offered by Wisconsin, Oregon State, and Illinois. He hasn't taken any visits yet. He has declared for the NBA draft and seems to think he actually has a shot at getting drafted. Assuming he doesn't stay in the draft (would be a mistake IMHO) I'd imagine he'd start taking visits after May 24.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

brewcity77

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Re: Graduate Transfer Options?
« Reply #46 on: May 19, 2017, 11:01:11 AM »
Again ... to "bank a schollie" means to give up and actively NOT look.  To put it in a vault because you planning to NOT use it.  This represents a failure.
(search the site, this exact argument was first brought up in 2012, and several times since, including exactly one year ago,  Most agreed the definition of "bank" means to consciously decide not to use it and that represented a failure.  But since you all want to disagree with my because I wrote it, you now have decided that this is all wrong.)

Never stop recruiting and never stop looking.  Yes, as you get better the options become more limited, but you don't give up or "bank."  And 13 players of the quality you want is always better than 12 or 11.

Don't be stupid. Rather, stop being stupid, because it's too late for the former.

If the staff is happy with the roster as constructed, a 13th player can absolutely be worse than 11 or 12. Adding a body that will not play significant minutes, will put pressure on current players to transfer, or will delay the development of current players is worse. Taking a player that will prevent you from landing a better player in a year (say Joey or Grimes) is worse. And while you can make the stupid and BS argument that "you can always find room" that's not true if the player you really wanted perceives a logjam at his position and isn't willing to commit because of how you filled that 13th scholarship a year earlier.

TAMU Eagle

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Re: Graduate Transfer Options?
« Reply #47 on: May 19, 2017, 11:04:39 AM »
Semantics. Is he "banking" because he wants to hold the scholarship intentionally and was not looking at anyone or is he "banking" because he was unable to get someone he wanted.

Impossible for us to know. After Elliott committed we have been linked with Ed Morrow, Cameron Johnson, Egor Koulechov, and Jemarl Baker. It's possible that Wojo wanted two from that group and just failed on Johnson, Koulechov, and Baker. Or its possible that Wojo's plan all along was to only get one of the four and save the last for 2018. Both options are also possible. When Morrow committed we had already been pushed off of the other three's lists. Some of the 2018 players such as Joey, Grimes, and LaDee that we are perusing are going to be much more impactful players than any of the four listed above.

If I had to speculate, my guess would that Wojo's ideal situation would have been grabbing Koulechov and one of Johnson/Baker/Morrow. When Koulechov was a no go, the plan was to get one of the other three and bank the other.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

QuentinsWorld

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Re: Graduate Transfer Options?
« Reply #48 on: May 19, 2017, 11:14:42 AM »
Every scholarship is a work in process.  There is no finality to them like "bank" suggests.   They are always available for the right player anytime the right player shows up.

So stop saying the last schollie is "banked"  Wojo is out looking for that last player.  Maybe he finds him this month, or next month, this summer, as a mid-season transfer this winter or next year.  You insult Wojo by saying he is "banking it."

No, nobody insults anyone by saying a coach banked a scholarship.  If the scholarship goes unused it is banked.  If a Fischer shows up midyear, he puts to use the scholarship that Wojo banked heading into the season.  Having an open scholarship available for a midseason transfer is one reason having a banked scholarship can actually help a team and not automatically make a team worse, as you say it does.  If November comes around and practices start up with 12 scholarship players, the 13th scholarship was banked, and I can guarantee you it's not because Wojo put his feet up and decided he'd had enough of recruiting for 2017.

Big Daddy84

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Re: Graduate Transfer Options?
« Reply #49 on: May 19, 2017, 11:16:23 AM »
No one is on the radar.  Igor was the only one that they were really excited about.  The team has great chemistry right now and the staff feels that the roster has enough talent to compete this year and does not see a need to add just a body.  If it is not someone who would definitely be in the 7-8 man rotation it is not going to happen.  Unlike last couple of years where  it was a need just to have some experience, this year it would have been a bonus if it happened.

2018  Joey #1 priority and will sign someone else too if they are viewed as a "high" ceiling player.  No one is leaving that I know off, but if you look at the landscape of today's college basketball the odds are against all players returning.  Bailey is still expected to be here.

I apologize if supplying this info interrupts the regular programming of bickering back and forth.  Please feel free to return to normal activities.  I don't like to preach and I am not pure as the wind driven snow, but sometimes Scoop can be really silly.   

One other point that I would like to bring up is that I don't hear much praise for Bill Scholl and what he has done to upgrade the entire athletic program. Men's BBall will always be the primary team, but we should acknowledge that we are becoming recognized for our other teams as well.  A significant amount of credit should go to Bill and his decisions.  I doubt he will be here in 5 years, simply because some large Football power conference team will grab him.  He has never said this to me, it is just my own thoughts.  He is very well thought of and respected and I know that there are efforts to keep him here, but the money from the football programs is just to large to match and ultimately he will get an offer he just cant say no too.  I hope not, but I see this to be more likely than Wojo going anywhere soon.

PLEASE DO NOT START A RUMOR THAT BILL IS LEAVING  I am only sharing my thoughts not any "inside" info.