collapse

* Stud of Colorado Game

Tyler Kolek

21 points, 5 rebounds,
11 assists, 1 steal,
40 minutes

2023-24 Season SoG Tally
Kolek11
Ighodaro6
Jones, K.6
Mitchell2
Jones, S.1
Joplin1

'22-23
'21-22 * '20-21 * '19-20
'18-19 * '17-18 * '16-17
'15-16 * '14-15 * '13-14
'12-13 * '11-12 * '10-11

* Big East Standings

* Recent Posts

2024 Transfer Portal by lawdog77
[Today at 04:32:01 PM]


Where is Marquette? by Juan Anderson's Mixtape
[Today at 04:30:20 PM]


Dallas bars tonite by MU Fan in Connecticut
[Today at 04:20:48 PM]


2024 Coaching Carousel by THRILLHO
[Today at 04:05:24 PM]


Sweet 16 presser by cheebs09
[Today at 04:00:16 PM]


2024 NCAA Tournament Thread by NickelDimer
[Today at 03:31:19 PM]


10 years after “Done Deal” … It’s Happening! by The Sultan of Semantics
[Today at 03:24:51 PM]

Please Register - It's FREE!

The absolute only thing required for this FREE registration is a valid e-mail address.  We keep all your information confidential and will NEVER give or sell it to anyone else.
Login to get rid of this box (and ads) , or register NOW!

* Next up: NC State

Marquette
81
Marquette vs

NC State

Date/Time: Mar 29, 2024, 6:09 pm
TV: CBS
Schedule for 2023-24
Colorado
77

Author Topic: Kevin O'Neill Retrospective  (Read 7361 times)

Dr. Blackheart

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 13005
Kevin O'Neill Retrospective
« on: May 16, 2017, 10:23:28 PM »
The Savior to some (as he raised MU from the dead)...Rasputin to others (as Cords continuously wanted to rehire him). Was fired or moved along as a nomad at every stop after MU. Wayne Watts, MU grad and former NU Champlain, said Kevin kept him busy with a new vocabulary. A great recruiter and developer whose MU players said they had a hate-love relationship with. Personal issues galore, but that Kentucky game breathed life back into MU and Milwaukee. Chicos?

http://www.insidenu.com/2013/1/14/3877266/kevin-oneill-fired-usc-northwestern


The Lens

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4916
Re: Kevin O'Neill Retrospective
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2017, 12:55:59 AM »
There is not Marquette basketball today, without KO.  That's just a fact. 
The Teal Train has left the station and Lens is day drinking in the bar car.    ---- Dr. Blackheart

History is so valuable if you have the humility to learn from it.    ---- Shaka Smart

warriorfred

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 933
Re: Kevin O'Neill Retrospective
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2017, 02:30:23 AM »
That Kevin O'Neill is not widely recognized as the "savior" of Marquette basketball is disappointing*.

There are almost no words to describe glumly walking into the Bradley Center at the start of the 1988-89 season and realizing during warm-ups, before the tip-off of the pre-season game against Athletes in Action, that there was absolutely no hope. 

A 13-15 record, with a home loss to Austin Peay (by 10), and 2 losses to a Badger team that couldn't make the NIT . . . whew, it was bad.  We envied the success of the Evansville Purple Aces.  Think about that for a moment, Marquette was in the Midwest Collegiate Conference, looking up to the mighty Evansville Purple Aces.

The Buzz-Wojo transition years were disappointing because there was something to Marquette basketball (Big East, recent Elite 8, top 10 recruit, etc...).  In 1988, Marquette was a bottom-dweller in the MCC, and it seemed like Marquette basketball was headed to Division III.

But one man changed all that. 

*  I am open to argument about Al being the savior of Marquette Basketball, but my impression was that Al built from a solid foundation.  O'Neill started his tenure from the smoldering crater left by Dukiet.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 02:37:46 AM by warriorfred »

warriorfred

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 933
Re: Kevin O'Neill Retrospective
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2017, 02:37:07 AM »
Yes, yes, horrible human being, but he somehow saved Marquette basketball from irrelevance.

rocket surgeon

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3652
  • NA of course
Re: Kevin O'Neill Retrospective
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2017, 05:58:27 AM »
i don't believe ko was a "horrible human being" by any stretch of the imagination.  he was his own dude.  A-1 recruiter, motivator and coach.  if not for some having difficulties with his on court antics, those within hearing distance anyway, he would have been here a few more, but what affect would that have had on MU hoops as well? 
don't...don't don't don't don't

bilsu

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8800
Re: Kevin O'Neill Retrospective
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2017, 07:11:42 AM »
Quote from: The Lens link=topic=54285.msg929247#msg929247 =1495000559
There is not Marquette basketball today, without KO.  That's just a fact.
This statement would only apply to Al McGuire.

Galway Eagle

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 10461
Re: Kevin O'Neill Retrospective
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2017, 07:12:40 AM »
This statement would only apply to Al McGuire.

Eddie hickie and Jack Nagle might disagree with that statement.
Maigh Eo for Sam

GGGG

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 25207
Re: Kevin O'Neill Retrospective
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2017, 07:16:09 AM »
I have heard people speculate on what would have been had O'Neill stayed.  Maybe he would have put roots down here and been a long term success.  Or maybe he becomes the bitter guy he turned into anyway.  Or maybe he was never meant to put roots down anywhere.

lurch91

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 983
Re: Kevin O'Neill Retrospective
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2017, 07:19:43 AM »
In person, KO just had amazing charisma.  But he was self-destructive, at least back then.

We could be Loyola, DePaul, University of Detroit or Evansville.  But Cords had a vision, and KO helped make that vision come into focus.  Without both of them, MU basketball would be playing in a half filled MECCA today (or worse, to 3,000 - 4,000 fans in the Bradley Center).
« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 11:07:50 AM by lurch91 »

Galway Eagle

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 10461
Re: Kevin O'Neill Retrospective
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2017, 07:48:01 AM »
I have heard people speculate on what would have been had O'Neill stayed.  Maybe he would have put roots down here and been a long term success.  Or maybe he becomes the bitter guy he turned into anyway.  Or maybe he was never meant to put roots down anywhere.

I think it would've been a trade for better 90s but ultimately a worse 2000s. But I'm just assuming he'd have done better with the 95 team than deane did and probably couldve gotten some solid recruits from the sweet 16
Maigh Eo for Sam

4everwarriors

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 15995
Re: Kevin O'Neill Retrospective
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2017, 08:15:05 AM »
Kevin jogged past my crib every day in The Quon. Often my son (probably around age 5) and I would be on the driveway shootin' hoops. KO said he'd schollie my kid. Da bastard never did so fook 'em, hey?
"Give 'Em Hell, Al"

MU Fan in Connecticut

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3437
Re: Kevin O'Neill Retrospective
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2017, 12:04:29 PM »
That Kevin O'Neill is not widely recognized as the "savior" of Marquette basketball is disappointing*.

There are almost no words to describe glumly walking into the Bradley Center at the start of the 1988-89 season and realizing during warm-ups, before the tip-off of the pre-season game against Athletes in Action, that there was absolutely no hope. 

A 13-15 record, with a home loss to Austin Peay (by 10), and 2 losses to a Badger team that couldn't make the NIT . . . whew, it was bad.  We envied the success of the Evansville Purple Aces.  Think about that for a moment, Marquette was in the Midwest Collegiate Conference, looking up to the mighty Evansville Purple Aces.

The Buzz-Wojo transition years were disappointing because there was something to Marquette basketball (Big East, recent Elite 8, top 10 recruit, etc...).  In 1988, Marquette was a bottom-dweller in the MCC, and it seemed like Marquette basketball was headed to Division III.

But one man changed all that. 

*  I am open to argument about Al being the savior of Marquette Basketball, but my impression was that Al built from a solid foundation.  O'Neill started his tenure from the smoldering crater left by Dukiet.

Don't remind me!

Goose

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 10443
Re: Kevin O'Neill Retrospective
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2017, 12:27:06 PM »
My thoughts:
1. He saved the MU Men's Basketball Program
2. Average, at best, basketball coach.
3. Someone I very much enjoyed spending time with over the years, especially after games
4. Probably stayed the proper length time at MU, based off his personality.
5. Someone I still hope knocks out of the park
6. He save the MU Men's Basketball Program

A flawed man in many ways, but a kind heart as well. In recent years he showed some real class and compassion for a family member and that will not be forgotten.

TSmith34, Inc.

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 5084
Re: Kevin O'Neill Retrospective
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2017, 12:34:41 PM »
My thoughts:
1. He saved the MU Men's Basketball Program
2. Average, at best, basketball coach.
3. Someone I very much enjoyed spending time with over the years, especially after games
4. Probably stayed the proper length time at MU, based off his personality.
5. Someone I still hope knocks out of the park
6. He save the MU Men's Basketball Program

A flawed man in many ways, but a kind heart as well. In recent years he showed some real class and compassion for a family member and that will not be forgotten.
Interesting perspective, Goose, thanks for sharing.

Having experienced the Piano Man years in person, the return to respectability under KO was a godsend IMO
If you think for one second that I am comparing the USA to China you have bumped your hard.

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22729
Re: Kevin O'Neill Retrospective
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2017, 01:23:29 PM »
There is not Marquette basketball today, without KO.  That's just a fact.

Well, actually, that's an opinion.

Many others share that opinion, but a fact is totally provable and what you say here isn't.

The sun rose in Milwaukee at 5:26 a.m. is a fact.

I really like Goose's take, which he began with "My thoughts." Many (even most) of us agree with many (even most) of Goose's thoughts ... but that doesn't make those facts, either!

Glad we had KO. Program needed him at the time. I agree with Goose that his length of time with the Warriors was probably just about right.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

bilsu

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8800
Re: Kevin O'Neill Retrospective
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2017, 02:04:29 PM »
This statement would only apply to Al McGuire.
You could ask the average basketball fan across the country where Kevin O'Neal coached, were Eddie Hickey coached or where Jack Nagle coached and I expect almost everyone would not know the answer. Ask the same fans where Al McGuire coached and a good percentage of them would know the answer. Crean did just as much or more than O'Neal did. They were successful coaches, who came in as assistants. One could argue MU made them and not the other way around. I sure both used the McGuire legacy when they were recruiting. I am not downplaying what O'Neal did at MU, just the idea that he made us where we are today. No one compares to Al McGuire. There are plenty of coaches that could of done what O'Neal did and very few if any that could have the impact that Al had.

Goose

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 10443
Re: Kevin O'Neill Retrospective
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2017, 02:13:15 PM »
bilsu

I have never had a discussion that included KO and Al in the same sentence or even paragraph. That said, I did tell KO countless times that "I knew Al and he was no Al". Talking about them is apples and oranges, IMO.

4everwarriors

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 15995
Re: Kevin O'Neill Retrospective
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2017, 02:47:36 PM »
Crean sucks
"Give 'Em Hell, Al"

RubyWiscy

  • Registered User
  • Team Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 474
Re: Kevin O'Neill Retrospective
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2017, 03:52:29 PM »
Quote
There is no Marquette basketball today, without KO.  That's just a fact.

Remember Loyola, Bradley, Detroit Mercy?  Yeah, didn't think so.

He was the right man, at the right time, for the right job at MU. Pulled MU kicking and screaming from an independent to a conference school.

After that, his "creative" tendencies didn't seem to fit in anywhere.

Dr. Blackheart

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 13005
Re: Kevin O'Neill Retrospective
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2017, 07:23:27 PM »
KO was a mercenary who did his job. Like other ex-coaches, MU was their high water mark. That said, Dukiet left MU for dead and KO revived us...and he gave Deane a running head start.

naginiF

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1452
  • 'and the riot be the rhyme of the unheard'
Re: Kevin O'Neill Retrospective
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2017, 07:29:31 PM »

He was the right man, at the right time, for the right job at MU.
This is the salient point. 

KO deserves a ton of respect for what he did with the program/we should all be grateful.  But the credit also goes to the AD/BOT/President for being dedicated to the cause.  If it wasn't KO it would've been another coach that would've done the same thing for the program and if it wasn't Marquette KO would've had an equally good opportunity.

A lot like marriage - an honest understanding of your strengths, weaknesses, and what you are trying to accomplish will net the right partner (hopefully one is a more long lasting relationship).  Divine intervention didn't bring MU & KO together, a mutual need did.  Congrats to both for recognizing it.

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22729
Re: Kevin O'Neill Retrospective
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2017, 07:37:48 PM »
I sure both used the McGuire legacy when they were recruiting.

I remember that one scene in Hoop Dreams where KO brings William Gates to the Bradley Center, points to the MU's national title banner and retired numbers, and says something like, "This is the place where it all happened."

Which, of course, it wasn't!

But that's OK.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

TrevorCandelino

  • Walk-On
  • *
  • Posts: 13
Re: Kevin O'Neill Retrospective
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2017, 07:57:18 PM »
I have no perspective on the inner workings of Wojo's staff but O'Neill on the staff coaching defense would be fun to see. 

GGGG

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 25207
Re: Kevin O'Neill Retrospective
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2017, 08:09:06 PM »
I have no perspective on the inner workings of Wojo's staff but O'Neill on the staff coaching defense would be fun to see. 

As would a unicorn pooping rainbows out its a$$. Which is more likely to happen than O'Neill ever joining Wojo's staff.

TSmith34, Inc.

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 5084
Re: Kevin O'Neill Retrospective
« Reply #25 on: May 17, 2017, 10:15:33 PM »
As would a unicorn pooping rainbows out its a$$. Which is more likely to happen than O'Neill ever joining Wojo's staff.

You're welcome
If you think for one second that I am comparing the USA to China you have bumped your hard.

dgies9156

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4022
Re: Kevin O'Neill Retrospective
« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2017, 10:52:22 AM »
My thoughts:
1. He saved the MU Men's Basketball Program
2. Average, at best, basketball coach.
3. Someone I very much enjoyed spending time with over the years, especially after games
4. Probably stayed the proper length time at MU, based off his personality.
5. Someone I still hope knocks out of the park
6. He save the MU Men's Basketball Program

A flawed man in many ways, but a kind heart as well. In recent years he showed some real class and compassion for a family member and that will not be forgotten.

Excellent points. Saw enough of his games to know he was an average coach and an excellent recruiter.

To those of you who take umbrage with the saved MU's program, he did! Here is the chronology:

1) Al created the world as we know it beginning in 1964. He created the program as we know it today.

2) Quentin Quade, the Administration and Hank almost destroyed it in the 1980s.

3) KO saved it after years of neglect.

4) The Hillbilly got us back to national prominence and put us in a position where we could hire Coach Wojo.

5) Coach Wojo will win the second through who knows national title for us.

rocket surgeon

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3652
  • NA of course
Re: Kevin O'Neill Retrospective
« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2017, 05:20:54 PM »
   "and Hank almost destroyed it in the 1980s." ? 

   i am all ears.  my understanding was, al was "the man", but hank ran the practices.  if true, that had to have carried some cred going forward.  hank's overall record as a college coach was 236-100 and 126-50 including a visit to the sweet 16
don't...don't don't don't don't

Newsdreams

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 9564
  • Goal - Win BE
Re: Kevin O'Neill Retrospective
« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2017, 07:59:05 PM »
   "and Hank almost destroyed it in the 1980s." ? 

   i am all ears.  my understanding was, al was "the man", but hank ran the practices.  if true, that had to have carried some cred going forward.  hank's overall record as a college coach was 236-100 and 126-50 including a visit to the sweet 16
I didn't like the wsy he coached whike I was there '79-'83 and he was booed a lot by students. I think he just was not good with team chemistry during games.
Goal is National Championship

4everwarriors

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 15995
Re: Kevin O'Neill Retrospective
« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2017, 08:03:39 PM »
Ya butt, no one rolled up a game program in his hands better dan Hank, ai na?
"Give 'Em Hell, Al"

Newsdreams

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 9564
  • Goal - Win BE
Re: Kevin O'Neill Retrospective
« Reply #30 on: May 18, 2017, 08:43:18 PM »
Ya butt, no one rolled up a game program in his hands better dan Hank, ai na?
Now dat's fooking tru
Goal is National Championship

real chili 83

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8654
Re: Kevin O'Neill Retrospective
« Reply #31 on: May 18, 2017, 09:00:34 PM »
Hanks was one of the brightest minds in terms of strategy and with breaking down a game.  John effin Wooden used to call him for advice.  Al owes a ton to Hank. And vice verse.

Goose

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 10443
Re: Kevin O'Neill Retrospective
« Reply #32 on: May 18, 2017, 09:02:04 PM »
Real

Politely disagree. Al's ego led to Hank getting the job and it was a major in judgement.

real chili 83

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8654
Re: Kevin O'Neill Retrospective
« Reply #33 on: May 18, 2017, 09:04:15 PM »
Newise, do you remember when Hank and Rick came to Schroeder in the spring of 1980 to talk about the 80/81 team. Hank talked about this kid from Maywood he recruited....   They spoke in the basement, down by the dorm store. 

Newsdreams

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 9564
  • Goal - Win BE
Re: Kevin O'Neill Retrospective
« Reply #34 on: May 18, 2017, 09:21:07 PM »
Newise, do you remember when Hank and Rick came to Schroeder in the spring of 1980 to talk about the 80/81 team. Hank talked about this kid from Maywood he recruited....   They spoke in the basement, down by the dorm store.
Chili won't lie, was probably out getting drunk. Never missed a game I had a ticket for, but didn't go to stuff like that. Except for the couple of times Al was on campus.
Goal is National Championship

real chili 83

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8654
Re: Kevin O'Neill Retrospective
« Reply #35 on: May 18, 2017, 09:23:23 PM »
Chili won't lie, was probably out getting drunk. Never missed a game I had a ticket for, but didn't go to stuff like that. Except for the couple of times Al was on campus.

You drank in college? And on a Monday night? 

Herman Cain

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 12799
  • 9-9-9
Re: Kevin O'Neill Retrospective
« Reply #36 on: May 18, 2017, 10:44:15 PM »
I didn't like the wsy he coached whike I was there '79-'83 and he was booed a lot by students. I think he just was not good with team chemistry during games.
I will never forget sitting in the stands at Market Square Arena in shock after we lost to Miami of Ohio. That's when I knew Hank would not get the job done. We had many better options to replace Al and made a bad choice. Obviously Hank was a good guy but was not up to sustaining our blue blood status.
Winning is overrated. The only time it is really important is in surgery and war.
                       ---Al McGuire

Billy Hoyle

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2660
  • Retire #34
Re: Kevin O'Neill Retrospective
« Reply #37 on: May 18, 2017, 11:07:59 PM »
Excellent points. Saw enough of his games to know he was an average coach and an excellent recruiter.

To those of you who take umbrage with the saved MU's program, he did! Here is the chronology:

1) Al created the world as we know it beginning in 1964. He created the program as we know it today.

2) Quentin Quade, the Administration and Hank almost destroyed it in the 1980s.

3) KO saved it after years of neglect.

4) The Hillbilly got us back to national prominence and put us in a position where we could hire Coach Wojo.

5) Coach Wojo will win the second through who knows national title for us.

Crean wasn't a hillbilly.

The Hillbilly got the keys to a Vette, traded it in for a Porsche, put a gun rack on it and crashed it into a swamp.
“You either smoke or you get smoked. And you got smoked.”