Golf retail hurting

[jesmu84]

Nike out earlier. Adidas out now as well

http://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/19351857/adidas-sells-golf-businesses-taylormade-adams-golf-ashworth-425-million

You'd think, at some point, a new driver would be less than $400. Yet, here we are.

[GGGG]

I wonder what's going to happen to golf after the Boomers are done. I'm a GenXer, and I have very few friends who golf. I used to but none of my kids do.

[tower912]

Golf will likely be the first professional sport to have money diminish.  I say this as one likely to play more than 70 rounds this year.   The audience is shrinking, Tiger is done.  The crap of it is that the game could be a natural for those looking to relax and spend time in nature.   But it is looked on as a Buick or minivan.  And it isn't easy to get good at or stay good at.   Finally, like other sporting goods stores and   other retail,  it is a rough slog right now.

[Lennys Tap]

Golf is hurting. Retail is hurting. Makes sense that golf retail is hurting.

[warriorchick]

Golf will likely be the first professional sport to have money diminish.  I say this as one likely to play more than 70 rounds this year.   The audience is shrinking, Tiger is done.  The crap of it is that the game could be a natural for those looking to relax and spend time in nature.   But it is looked on as a Buick or minivan.  And it isn't easy to get good at or stay good at.   Finally, like other sporting goods stores and   other retail,  it is a rough slog right now.

And it is expensive, time-consuming, and not a particularly good form of exercise.

Mark Twain was right.

[tower912]

And it is expensive, time-consuming, and not a particularly good form of exercise.

Mark Twain was right.

Walk 18 holes carrying your bag like I do and it is excellent exercise.   5 mile walk with a 15 lb weight on your back.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

the biggest things hurting golf are pace of play and cost.  that, and every jackass on a saturday afternoon thinks he's on tour and jams up the course.

[warriorchick]

Walk 18 holes carrying your bag like I do and it is excellent exercise.   5 mile walk with a 15 lb weight on your back.

5 miles over 4 hours? That isn't going to keep your heart rate up for any decent length of time.  I also take efficiency into consideration when I evaluate exercise. Who has time to stay in shape by golfing?

[tower912]

5 miles over 4 hours? That isn't going to keep your heart rate up for any decent length of time.  I also take efficiency into consideration when I evaluate exercise. Who has time to stay in shape by golfing?

5 hilly miles in under 3 hours. 

[Jay Bee]

the biggest things hurting golf are pace of play and cost.  that, and every jackass on a saturday afternoon thinks he's on tour and jams up the course.

^^^^ dis yung boy carry my sack

[ZiggysFryBoy]

5 miles over 4 hours? That isn't going to keep your heart rate up for any decent length of time.  I also take efficiency into consideration when I evaluate exercise. Who has time to stay in shape by golfing?

Tony D'Annunzio: [carrying Czervik's golf bag] What do you got in here, rocks?
Al Czervik: Are you kiddin'? When I was your age, I would lug fifty pounds of ice up five, six flights of stairs!
Tony D'Annunzio: [puts down Czervik's bag, exasperated] So what?
Al Czervik: So what?
[opens compartment in golf bag, revealing radio]
Al Czervik: So let's dance!
[turns on Journey's "Any Way You Want It," high volume]

[tower912]

I'm more like Ty Webb.  I don't like to play golf with people for money

[MU82]

I'm more like Ty Webb.  I don't like to play golf with people for money

I used to have a regular game in Chicago. Two of my best buddies and a rotating fourth. Those guys were always coming up with crazy games to play for some low-stake money.

My standard line: "At the end, just tell me what I owe everybody."

[warriorchick]

I used to have a regular game in Chicago. Two of my best buddies and a rotating fourth. Those guys were always coming up with crazy games to play for some low-stake money.

My standard line: "At the end, just tell me what I owe everybody."

When I get invited to golf, I just offer to be the one to hold everyone else's beer while they are teeing off or putting or whatever.

[real chili 83]

Anyone remember Johnny Carson's interview of Arnie Palmer?

[rocket surgeon]

Anyone remember Johnny Carson's interview of Arnie Palmer?

OH BOY!!  wasn't mrs arnie on with him and putters pointing skyward?  this was before vee A gray eeen'er?

btw, some will use golf as a form of exercise as tower has mentioned.  i usually get in some good ab work and maybe a little elliptical before i play in the morning.  it relaxes my swing, keeps my core where it belongs instead of swinging out of my buck nakeds.  both my sons(under 30) play regularly.  great family time.  see places we wouldn't ordinarily go to otherwise

[4everwarriors]

Eye average 22 putts/round, hey?

[WellsstreetWanderer]

I always take more shots than I pay for

[Spaniel with a Short Tail]

We have had a rotating group of about 11 with 2 foursomes every Saturday afternoon. Youngest in 40s and oldest about 70. We haven't had more than 6 show up yet this season due to various ailments and other reasons. We also have not had any new blood join the group in years. I think golf course operators are going to need to be creative to survive. Start doing 12 hole rounds. Get it on the X games somehow. Introduce speed golf leagues. Whatever. Otherwise I foresee hard times. Have had 2 friends drop their golf privileges at their country clubs in recent years also.

The closing of golf galaxy and golfsmith also not a good sign. Got fitted for my last clubs at golf galaxy. Was very pleased with the experience. When it's time for replacements not sure where I'll go. For whatever reason there are a few smaller storefront stores that seem to be surviving. I'll probably go to one of those.

[mu03eng]

Golf is suffering from a number of issues that in combination probably mean it's doomed long term and I say that as an avid duffer

-Expensive equipment to acquire and relatively expensive to play well and consistently
-Typically need golf buddies to go out with. You can golf by yourself but if it's busy at all you get paired up with strangers which can be good or disastrous.
-Time commitment to play a round
-The rules are more complex then an Enigma Machine which keeps the pro's from generating fans who then will go out and play
-It's being viewed as a sport of the elites and something millennials don't want to be a part of.

[Benny B]

Golf has three strikes against it:

1.  Any fool - regardless of his/her level of talent - can quickly learn to throw a baseball, kick a soccer ball or tackle an opponent.  In other words, most every person on this planet can learn to do one thing at a time.  It's when people are asked to do two things at a time (in coordination with one another) that the learning curve begins to flatten.  Golf, hockey, tennis, swimming... all of these are sports that you can't just join a beer league and hope to be holding your own by the end of the season.

2. Golf is unfairly but often associated with white, affluent, elitist people with gather in places with big iron gates to keep out the riff-raff.

3. Let's face it... most people today are lazy.  Walking several miles over 2-3 hours with a bag on your back isn't exactly appealing to someone who spends most of their free time sitting on the couch eating peanut butter cups and wondering why they're short of breath every time they go upstairs.  And most of those who do exercise have this failed notion that you can cram a day's worth of activity into 8- and 10-minute workouts.

So here you have a sport that's difficult to learn/play, has a perception that's falling out of favor in today's society (i.e, doesn't make for great Instagrams or Snappies), and requires a time commitment.  Most millennials will balk at something that meets just one of these criteria, so golf is pretty much doomed.


[Ah hell.... Eng beat me to most of this.  Oh well.]

[RJax55]

What's happening in golf retail is just a sped up version of what's happening in other retail sectors. There's no room anymore for the middle-end, the big box retailer.

If price is your main priority, buy online. If you're looking for service, it will cost you, but there are fitters that can provide a level of interaction and detail that blows away what a Golfsmith, Golf Galaxy, etc. can offer. Places like Club Champion and other high-end fitters are doing very well right now.

OEMs need to adjust their business to fit into the new purchasing model.

[MUBurrow]

1.  Any fool - regardless of his/her level of talent - can quickly learn to throw a baseball, kick a soccer ball or tackle an opponent. 

2. Golf is unfairly but often associated with white, affluent, elitist people with gather in places with big iron gates to keep out the riff-raff.

3. Let's face it... most people today are lazy. 

Most millennials will balk at something that meets just one of these criteria, so golf is pretty much doomed.

As a golfer myself, golf's biggest obstacle to overcome to reach a new audience is current golfers.

[keefe]

When I get invited to golf, I just offer to be the one to hold everyone else's beer while they are teeing off or putting or whatever.

Whatever must mean you also wash their balls?

[mu03eng]

Golf has three strikes against it:

1.  Any fool - regardless of his/her level of talent - can quickly learn to throw a baseball, kick a soccer ball or tackle an opponent.  In other words, most every person on this planet can learn to do one thing at a time.  It's when people are asked to do two things at a time (in coordination with one another) that the learning curve begins to flatten.  Golf, hockey, tennis, swimming... all of these are sports that you can't just join a beer league and hope to be holding your own by the end of the season.

2. Golf is unfairly but often associated with white, affluent, elitist people with gather in places with big iron gates to keep out the riff-raff.

3. Let's face it... most people today are lazy.  Walking several miles over 2-3 hours with a bag on your back isn't exactly appealing to someone who spends most of their free time sitting on the couch eating peanut butter cups and wondering why they're short of breath every time they go upstairs.  And most of those who do exercise have this failed notion that you can cram a day's worth of activity into 8- and 10-minute workouts.

So here you have a sport that's difficult to learn/play, has a perception that's falling out of favor in today's society (i.e, doesn't make for great Instagrams or Snappies), and requires a time commitment.  Most millennials will balk at something that meets just one of these criteria, so golf is pretty much doomed.


[Ah hell.... Eng beat me to most of this.  Oh well.]

[mu03eng]

As a golfer myself, golf's biggest obstacle to overcome to reach a new audience is current golfers.

Classic example, noise on the golf course. The people I usually golf with want to have music playing (we all have bluetooth speakers for the cart and/or bag) and don't really care about talking in the back swing. We're not obnoxious about talking during the swing i.e. talking to the person swinging or being loud but we also don't worry about stopping a conversation during play.

I'm guessing we are in the small minority, and after having made this change, it is very painful to play with people who observe the "traditional" courtesies of golf. 

[keefe]

Air Combat Command holds its week-long annual Weapons & Tactics conference every Oct - Nov in Tucson. I made the fatal error of leaving the agenda sitting out where my wife could find it. After reading it she hunted me down and  commented, "Looks like you guys squeezed in a few meetings between all the golf..."

I think golf as a pastime is highly situational. If you are a fighter pilot then golf is part of your world. The service academies actually have a mandatory golf class as part of its curriculum.

I would be curious to know if golf is on the wane in Asia. I lived across Asia for PepsiCo and GE Cap and golf was not only a core part of the corporate culture but also a wildly popular avocation among the host nationals. In fact, golf was de rigueur for doing business throughout Asia.

[mu03eng]

Air Combat Command holds its week-long annual Weapons & Tactics conference every Oct - Nov in Tucson. I made the fatal error of leaving the agenda sitting out where my wife could find it. After reading it she hunted me down and  commented, "Looks like you guys squeezed in a few meetings between all the golf..."

I think golf as a pastime is highly situational. If you are a fighter pilot then golf is part of your world. The service academies actually have a mandatory golf class as part of its curriculum.

I would be curious to know if golf is on the wane in Asia. I lived across Asia for PepsiCo and GE Cap and golf was not only a core part of the corporate culture but also a wildly popular avocation among the host nationals. In fact, golf was de rigueur for doing business throughout Asia.

Yep, only time my dad ever played golf was when he had to do events/meetings at the TAC level. My mom use to joke it was bad opsec because she knew who he was meeting with depending on whether he took his flight bag (squadron/wing exercises) or his golf bag (TAC)

[warriorchick]

Perhaps a gritty reboot of "Caddyshack" might spark some interest with the youngsters.

[4everwarriors]

Dodgin' keefe's question, hey?

[real chili 83]

I bought the War Department a set of clubs for Christmas. 

I'll let you know how that goes. 

[🏀]

One point to add is the personalization of golf equipment. Most golfers know better than to pick up sticks off the rack at Dick's. Fitting has become necessary for anyone trying to have a legit game.

Additionally, the golf market was oversaturated in my opinion. Dick's didn't need half their stores dedicated to golf. Golf Galaxy didn't need a store in every commerically dense area.



As for TaylorMade, adidas broke them. They wanted to churn out driver after driver after driver to keep revenue up. Most golfers aren't buying a new driver every year, nor should you. Titleist does one metalwood set every two years, this model is very successful. Callaway and Cobra have been pulling back their reigns on releases as well.

TaylorMade has two other problems. No one wants to play their ball, Titleist reigns supreme on the ball market. Outside of their metalwoods, no one is buying their irons or wedges. They finally made a decent putter, but before then no one was buying those either.

Callaway, Titleist, Cobra, Srixon, PXG, Mizuno....doing just fine.

[tower912]

Classic example, noise on the golf course. The people I usually golf with want to have music playing (we all have bluetooth speakers for the cart and/or bag) and don't really care about talking in the back swing. We're not obnoxious about talking during the swing i.e. talking to the person swinging or being loud but we also don't worry about stopping a conversation during play.

I'm guessing we are in the small minority, and after having made this change, it is very painful to play with people who observe the "traditional" courtesies of golf.

I have played with (mostly much older) guys who simply cannot handle music on the course.    I enjoy it.    The only time 'noise' is a problem is when it is a sudden unexpected noise during your swing.     A cough, velcro ripping, a club dropping.     If there is a conversation going on that started before I got over the ball, carry on.   Don't yell, cough, start a belly laugh as I am taking the club back.   Courtesy. 

[tower912]

One point to add is the personalization of golf equipment. Most golfers know better than to pick up sticks off the rack at Dick's. Fitting has become necessary for anyone trying to have a legit game.

Additionally, the golf market was oversaturated in my opinion. Dick's didn't need half their stores dedicated to golf. Golf Galaxy didn't need a store in every commerically dense area.



As for TaylorMade, adidas broke them. They wanted to churn out driver after driver after driver to keep revenue up. Most golfers aren't buying a new driver every year, nor should you. Titleist does one metalwood set every two years, this model is very successful. Callaway and Cobra have been pulling back their reigns on releases as well.

TaylorMade has two other problems. No one wants to play their ball, Titleist reigns supreme on the ball market. Outside of their metalwoods, no one is buying their irons or wedges. They finally made a decent putter, but before then no one was buying those either.

Callaway, Titleist, Cobra, Srixon, PXG, Mizuno....doing just fine.

Callaway makes the same mistake, getting a new driver to market ever few months rather than once a year or more.     Everybody wanted Taylor Made balls when they were packaged as Kirkland's and sold 2 dozen for $30.   I personally will not buy Pro V1's.     The cost/value ratio is all wrong to me and my game.   I can count on one hand the number of times I have played a course with greens so firm that high spinning Pro V1's are actually desirable.  Paying $45 a dozen when there are balls at half the price that I score just as well with or better because they are longer and straighter off of the driver just doesn't work for me.    I know the 'experts' say that to choose a ball start around the green and work back to the tee box.    Shenanigans.     Find a ball that goes the straightest for you off of the driver.   If that happens to be a ball that is low spin off the irons and wedges, allow for it and don't play for your approaches to spin back with that tour english. 

[Lennys Tap]

Callaway makes the same mistake, getting a new driver to market ever few months rather than once a year or more.     Everybody wanted Taylor Made balls when they were packaged as Kirkland's and sold 2 dozen for $30.   I personally will not buy Pro V1's.     The cost/value ratio is all wrong to me and my game.   I can count on one hand the number of times I have played a course with greens so firm that high spinning Pro V1's are actually desirable.  Paying $45 a dozen when there are balls at half the price that I score just as well with or better because they are longer and straighter off of the driver just doesn't work for me.    I know the 'experts' say that to choose a ball start around the green and work back to the tee box.    Shenanigans.     Find a ball that goes the straightest for you off of the driver.   If that happens to be a ball that is low spin off the irons and wedges, allow for it and don't play for your approaches to spin back with that tour english.

Curious, Tower - what ball do you play?

[4everwarriors]

Even I'm knot goin' der Lenny Man, hey?

[#UnleashSean]

Classic example, noise on the golf course. The people I usually golf with want to have music playing (we all have bluetooth speakers for the cart and/or bag) and don't really care about talking in the back swing. We're not obnoxious about talking during the swing i.e. talking to the person swinging or being loud but we also don't worry about stopping a conversation during play.

I'm guessing we are in the small minority, and after having made this change, it is very painful to play with people who observe the "traditional" courtesies of golf.

As a guy who golf's once a year and loves to talk and party. Never understood why everyone wants to be quiet and not talk in the back swing etc.

[tower912]

Curious, Tower - what ball do you play?

Free ones and found ones.  .  Seriously, though, Wilson Duo's and Duo Spin's.  For me and my swing, consistently 7-10 yards longer off the driver.  One club less in to the green.  A well struck iron, one less than with a Pro V, stops well enough.

[Spotcheck Billy]

I used to golf with friends but prefer to spend a nice day burning through a tank of gas on a scoot than spending 10 X as much on greens fees and frustration with my (lack of) game..

[MUfan12]

As a guy who golf's once a year and loves to talk and party. Never understood why everyone wants to be quiet and not talk in the back swing etc.

In a 4 hour round of golf there's plenty of time to BS with people. Being quiet for 20 seconds while someone takes a shot isn't a ton to ask.

[rocket surgeon]

Classic example, noise on the golf course. The people I usually golf with want to have music playing (we all have bluetooth speakers for the cart and/or bag) and don't really care about talking in the back swing. We're not obnoxious about talking during the swing i.e. talking to the person swinging or being loud but we also don't worry about stopping a conversation during play.

I'm guessing we are in the small minority, and after having made this change, it is very painful to play with people who observe the "traditional" courtesies of golf.

i've played falcon dunes a few times-it's right next to lukes airforce base.  you think music is a distraction?  try a knee knocker with f-35s firing up.  first time i've seen a sign axking you to please replace your divots on a green.

     actually, i feel privileged every time i play falcon dunes as it's a military course by invite only and the guy i golf with is a retired officer and it's just cool as hell.  front row seat to the air shows.  golf almost becomes a distraction.  no flying on weekends though

[mu03eng]

As a guy who golf's once a year and loves to talk and party. Never understood why everyone wants to be quiet and not talk in the back swing etc.

One guy I golf with, is so quick over the ball that it is impossible not to talk in his back swing, which got me in the habit of just not caring unless we're on the green

[mu03eng]

In a 4 hour round of golf there's plenty of time to BS with people. Being quiet for 20 seconds while someone takes a shot isn't a ton to ask.

Depending on who you are playing with, 20 seconds is fast.

Golf is the only amateur sport where you have to follow the same courtesies as the professional game. We ain't professionals why do we have to act like it?

[MUfan12]

Golf is the only amateur sport where you have to follow the same courtesies as the professional game. We ain't professionals why do we have to act like it?

Why replace divots? Why fix ball marks?

I mean, we ain't professionals, right? Why do we need any courtesies out on the muni links?

[mu03eng]

Why replace divots? Why fix ball marks?

I mean, we ain't professionals, right? Why do we need any courtesies out on the muni links?

[warriorchick]

Why replace divots? Why fix ball marks?

I mean, we ain't professionals, right? Why do we need any courtesies out on the muni links?

Professionals have someone to do that for them.   

[keefe]

Free ones and found ones.  .  Seriously, though, Wilson Duo's and Duo Spin's.  For me and my swing, consistently 7-10 yards longer off the driver.  One club less in to the green.  A well struck iron, one less than with a Pro V, stops well enough.

Pro V1 is a stellar ball. For wedge play the Bridgestone B330 is superb.

A lot of guys play lost balls. I think this is a big mistake. Another thing is to not overplay a ball. Open a new sleeve on the first tee. You will see a difference in your score

[rocket surgeon]

In a 4 hour round of golf there's plenty of time to BS with people. Being quiet for 20 seconds while someone takes a shot isn't a ton to ask.

or replace their divots.  it's bad enough to land in the sand in someone size 14 UN-RAKED shoe imprints

[rocket surgeon]

i don't mind me a long and soft every now and then...FORE!!!

[Lennys Tap]

Free ones and found ones.  .  Seriously, though, Wilson Duo's and Duo Spin's.  For me and my swing, consistently 7-10 yards longer off the driver.  One club less in to the green.  A well struck iron, one less than with a Pro V, stops well enough.

Thanks for the tip. Wilson is a brand that wasn't on my radar before now.

[tower912]

It is my experience that if you have an average clubhead speed the duo is so soft you will feel it compress and then really take off.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

When I get invited to golf, I just offer to be the one to hold everyone else's beer while they are teeing off or putting or whatever.

Chick, your gif game is slipping.

[warriorchick]

Chick, your gif game is slipping.

If I have to wear those heels, I am definitely insisting on getting a cart.

[Benny B]

Chick, your gif game is slipping.

And now she's, if not one of, the highest paid actresses on TV today.  Let that be a lesson: schlepping beer opens many a door.

[warriorchick]

And now she's, if not one of, the highest paid actresses on TV today.  Let that be a lesson: schlepping beer opens many a door.

Who is it?  I don't recognize her.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Who is it?  I don't recognize her.

That is a 26 year old Julie Bowen in Happy Gilmore.

[warriorchick]

That is a 26 year old Julie Bowen in Happy Gilmore.

That explains it.  I barely recognized her when I saw the movie, and I don't remember this scene.

She's, um, changed her appearance quite a bit over the years.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

That explains it.  I barely recognized her when I saw the movie, and I don't remember this scene.

She's, um, changed her appearance quite a bit over the years.

Don't feel bad. I didn't even know it was Julie Bowen until I searched for the GIF yesterday.  One of those, "Oh, really? That's who that is?" moments.

[4everwarriors]

Ass looks memorable, doe, hey?

[rocket surgeon]

That is a 26 year old Julie Bowen in Happy Gilmore.

modern family's claire dunphy-the mom.  i think she's nicer looking today then back in her "prime"

[MU82]

Free ones and found ones.  .  Seriously, though, Wilson Duo's and Duo Spin's.  For me and my swing, consistently 7-10 yards longer off the driver.  One club less in to the green.  A well struck iron, one less than with a Pro V, stops well enough.

I'll have to check 'em out. Thanks.

Last year, Costco came out with a ball that testers and club pros were raving about - comparable or even better than Pro-Vs at a fraction of the price.

Costco was deluged with offers and ran out of them, and today they can be found only on eBay, with sellers fetching twice what they paid for them.

Crazy.

Not sure why Costco doesn't bring them back, make more of them and even hike up the price, say, 10%.

[mu03eng]

I'll have to check 'em out. Thanks.

Last year, Costco came out with a ball that testers and club pros were raving about - comparable or even better than Pro-Vs at a fraction of the price.

Costco was deluged with offers and ran out of them, and today they can be found only on eBay, with sellers fetching twice what they paid for them.

Crazy.

Not sure why Costco doesn't bring them back, make more of them and even hike up the price, say, 10%.

I believe because the ball OEM decided to direct instead of through Costco after the original success

[RJax55]

I'll have to check 'em out. Thanks.

Last year, Costco came out with a ball that testers and club pros were raving about - comparable or even better than Pro-Vs at a fraction of the price.

Costco was deluged with offers and ran out of them, and today they can be found only on eBay, with sellers fetching twice what they paid for them.

Crazy.

Not sure why Costco doesn't bring them back, make more of them and even hike up the price, say, 10%.

Ball was the Kirkland Signature. It was actually the Nassau Quattro, which can be found in the European market. Nassau had a large overrun of the ball and sold the lot to Costco, where it was re-branded as the Kirkland Signature. That's the reason the ball disappeared once it sold out.

Now, Costco is bringing back the "Kirkland Signature", but it is based on a different design and not the same ball that came out last fall.

[Benny B]

Ball was the Kirkland Signature. It was actually the Nassau Quattro, which can be found in the European market. Nassau had a large overrun of the ball and sold the lot to Costco, where it was re-branded as the the Kirkland Signature. That's the reason the ball disappeared once it sold out.

Now, Costco is bringing back the "Kirkland Signature", but it is based on a different design and not the same ball that came out last fall.

Someone should ask Chitown to stuff as many Quattros into his suitcase as he can when he repatriates himself.

[MU82]

Ball was the Kirkland Signature. It was actually the Nassau Quattro, which can be found in the European market. Nassau had a large overrun of the ball and sold the lot to Costco, where it was re-branded as the Kirkland Signature. That's the reason the ball disappeared once it sold out.

Now, Costco is bringing back the "Kirkland Signature", but it is based on a different design and not the same ball that came out last fall.

There you have it. I knew somebody would have the info.