northwestern opts out of journalism accreditation

[rocket surgeon]

      is this going to become a trend?  do highly touted schools feel the accreditation process has lost it's credibility? or is it the other way around?  as most of you know, opinion polls of respect for the profession are among the lowest of all.  if that is the case, is this northwestern saying, to hell with the accreditation process as it has gotten us no where given the poll results year after year.  could they be taking a different educational approach in an attempt to resurrect the respect?  if any school is going to do this, it might as well be one of the top institutions in the country

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-northwestern-university-medill-accreditation-20170501-story.html

[dgies9156]

I'm going back years but in the 1970s, Marquette's  College of Journalism was not accredited. I'm not an academic, but the accreditation process is hooey. Explain to me how accreditation produces better journalists.

A college should be known by the quality of the graduates it produces, as measured by  career success and the kinds of persons their graduates become. In that vein, Marquette has done well. It has some well-known and well-respected graduates. Not an iota of their success came because Marquette was or wasn't accredited.
 
Same for Northwestern.

[GGGG]

I'm going back years but in the 1970s, Marquette's  College of Journalism was not accredited. I'm not an academic, but the accreditation process is hooey. Explain to me how accreditation produces better journalists.

A college should be known by the quality of the graduates it produces, as measured by  career success and the kinds of persons their graduates become. In that vein, Marquette has done well. It has some well-known and well-respected graduates. Not an iota of their success came because Marquette was or wasn't accredited.
 
Same for Northwestern.

Accredidation is much more important for the lower level schools as a sign of quality than it would be for Northwestern. 

[MU82]

When I chose to attend Marquette as a Journalism major in 1978, I did so with full knowledge that the program was not accredited. I did as much research as I could back then - it was the Paleolithic Era, when we wrote everything using rocks and chisels, and we had to use the Baseball Encyclopedia to settle disputes - and the general belief was the accreditation process was (to quote dgies) "hooey."

Looking at the long list of accomplished journalists to come out of Marquette well before the J-school got accredited pretty much proves this.

It is a rubber stamp, and it is a way for accrediting agencies to make money. It's like getting an honorary degree.

So I don't make anything out of Northwestern's decision, and it wouldn't surprise me if this led others to do similar.

[GB Warrior]

Accreditations for world-renowned programs is like playing in your bowl game when you know you're destined for the big leagues which is to say that you're not a team player and shouldn't be in consideration anymore

[rocket surgeon]

i always did wonder why an agency held so much power over the universities.  when and where did that start to be the "gold standard" although that may be over stating it.  i remember when the dental school was preparing for the accreditation gurus to come in, it was like getting your house ready for royalty and everyone was running around getting the place ready for the "white glove" test, wipe your feet before coming in, don't touch that, etc...

in this instance, i'm thinking that northwestern is a big boy/girl and can take care of itself just as MU did back in the day

[warriorchick]

i always did wonder why an agency held so much power over the universities.  when and where did that start to be the "gold standard" although that may be over stating it.  i remember when the dental school was preparing for the accreditation gurus to come in, it was like getting your house ready for royalty and everyone was running around getting the place ready for the "white glove" test, wipe your feet before coming in, don't touch that, etc...

in this instance, i'm thinking that northwestern is a big boy/girl and can take care of itself just as MU did back in the day

Same reason the American Board of General Dentistry holds so much power over you and your colleagues.

Do you want someone going to a dentist who just says, "Oh, don't worry; I got this."

[MU82]

Same reason the American Board of General Dentistry holds so much power over you and your colleagues.

Do you want someone going to a dentist who just says, "Oh, don't worry; I got this."

I hear ya, but dentistry, medicine and similar are a little different from journalism and other non life-or-death or health-related professions.

I mean, I truly don't think any content provider is going to look at a qualified candidate out of the Medill School of Journalism and say, "We think you're great, and of course Medill is wonderful, but NW let its journalism accreditation lapse, so we have to go with the kid from the University of Phoenix. Sorry."

[warriorchick]

I hear ya, but dentistry, medicine and similar are a little different from journalism and other non life-or-death or health-related professions.

I mean, I truly don't think any content provider is going to look at a qualified candidate out of the Medill School of Journalism and say, "We think you're great, and of course Medill is wonderful, but NW let its journalism accreditation lapse, so we have to go with the kid from the University of Phoenix. Sorry."

I agree.  A certifying body is only as good as the respect it garners. Whatever this journalism accrediting body is obviously doesn't have the gravitas of something like the North Central Association.  As someone who works for a certifying organization, my guess is that the accrediting body put some B.S. rules into place that caused Medill to throw up their hands and say, "That's it; we're done. We'll let our reputation speak for itself."

That being said, it can be important even if it isn't in life or death matters.  Take a CPA for example.  No one has ever died because their accountant wasn't up on the most recent FASB pronouncements.  But a bad accountant can do a lot of damage.  Just ask anyone who is sitting in jail because their tax returns were prepared by someone who didn't know what they were doing.

But yeah.  Very little real risk involved here.

" 

[rocket surgeon]

Same reason the American Board of General Dentistry holds so much power over you and your colleagues.

Do you want someone going to a dentist who just says, "Oh, don't worry; I got this."

yeah, but who really needs 'em.  yes, i know they "hold so much power" over us and that's the problem.  i believe the schools or at most, the states should be in charge.  also, we do have a standard of care regardless of someone passing the boards.  i also am of the belief that the boards can be flawed as it has been in the past.  maybe 4ever can help me out here, but i believe it was about 2-3 years ago when CRDTS(central regional dental testing service) had a major F-up and it caused quite a few student/dentists from realizing their livelihood and start to pay down their massive debt.  someone can pass the boards, but not necessarily be ready to practice dentistry or medicine for that matter

[forgetful]

Accredidation is much more important for the lower level schools as a sign of quality than it would be for Northwestern.

Agreed, I think more big universities should ignore accreditation, because it costs universities a lot of money and time, but offers nothing. 

But at the same time, accreditation is the only thing keeping some schools even remotely legitimate.

[Dr. Blackheart]

I thought the New B1G was all about academic reputation via the AAU accreditation and not about football? 

[GGGG]

AAU is not an accreditation organization.

[Dr. Blackheart]

AAU is not an accreditation organization.

It is an organization committed to academic standards. How is dismissing accreditation upholding that charter? Lame

[GooooMarquette]

I think they've figured out that prospective students pay a lot more attention to US News than accreditation.

[dgies9156]

But a bad accountant can do a lot of damage.  Just ask anyone who is sitting in jail because their tax returns were prepared by someone who didn't know what they were doing.

But yeah.  Very little real risk involved here.

Again, it's about the quality of grads.If my taxes are  put together by a CPA  out of college, I damn well better have a veteran tax accountant looking them over, reviewing and signing off on them. I don't want a green bean between me and the IRS.

If a school's grads are good, they'll be sought after and have the maturity to learn from their elders, be they accountants, engineers, journalists, shopkeepers or even dentists and doctors.  In that vein, a good graduate has good judgment to know what they don't  know and seek help and they have a commitment to continuous learning, which allows them to absorb.

My own experience as a Journalist with an MBA from Loyola in Chicago is that Marquette opened  my mind. They did not teach economics or finance to journalists, but the openness and the approach to learning that came from Marquette made those subjects a lot easier to absorb.

Marquette did not need an accreditation for that.

[rocket surgeon]

Again, it's about the quality of grads.If my taxes are  put together by a CPA  out of college, I damn well better have a veteran tax accountant looking them over, reviewing and signing off on them. I don't want a green bean between me and the IRS.

If a school's grads are good, they'll be sought after and have the maturity to learn from their elders, be they accountants, engineers, journalists, shopkeepers or even dentists and doctors.  In that vein, a good graduate has good judgment to know what they don't  know and seek help and they have a commitment to continuous learning, which allows them to absorb.

My own experience as a Journalist with an MBA from Loyola in Chicago is that Marquette opened  my mind. They did not teach economics or finance to journalists, but the openness and the approach to learning that came from Marquette made those subjects a lot easier to absorb.

Marquette did not need an accreditation for that.

   very well said!  MU/MUSOD taught me the basics, my dad(we worked together for 16 years) taught me how to practice

[Herman Cain]

Journalism is a discredited industry these days.

[dgies9156]

Journalism is a discredited industry these days.

Down dude!

Less discredited and more disintermediated. I don't know how anyone coming out of Journalism in 2017 will be capable of putting a meal on the table, a roof over the head of and medical care for him/herself and their family.

The only segment of true journalism that appears to be holding up is small town newspapers. Everything else has been hammered by the internet.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Down dude!

Less discredited and more disintermediated. I don't know how anyone coming out of Journalism in 2017 will be capable of putting a meal on the table, a roof over the head of and medical care for him/herself and their family.

Do what I did. Marry a CPA.

[dgies9156]

Do what I did. Marry a CPA.

Or, do what I did. Go get an MBA and leave the field.

Find something that pays more than minimum wage!

There was a Professor at MU when I was there who likely would have said to me, "You ... you ... you gave up pursuing the truth for.... money?  So you can... eat?"

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Or, do what I did. Go get an MBA and leave the field.

Find something that pays more than minimum wage!

There was a Professor at MU when I was there who likely would have said to me, "You ... you ... you gave up pursuing the truth for.... money?  So you can... eat?"

I'm a stay at home dad now since my take home pay would've barely covered the cost of one kid in daycare. Now with two kids, I am actually more valuable staying home instead of working.

[cheebs09]

Clearly the compromised their academics for that NCAA tournament appearance.

[rocket surgeon]

      looking at the state of journalism today, i'm not so sure "accreditation" really means all that much. looking
at public opinion polls of the state of journalism and given the "tilt" of the profession, who is going to go in and try to give it back any of it's credibility?  what are they going to tell the students?  now remember, you have a journalistic oath to hold up?  you need to cover things from both sides?  excuse me for a moment while i catch my breath...what are you going to have?  we used to call it, the wolves guarding the hen house.  pretty good example of teaching kids WHAT to think rather than HOW to think-there's your accreditation.  and it starts from the top, but they really do think that they are doing a good job.  another example of ya don't know what you do not know...well, i don't know anyone who would cover it any other way??  let's start there

[GGGG]

      looking at the state of journalism today, i'm not so sure "accreditation" really means all that much. looking
at public opinion polls of the state of journalism and given the "tilt" of the profession, who is going to go in and try to give it back any of it's credibility?  what are they going to tell the students?  now remember, you have a journalistic oath to hold up?  you need to cover things from both sides?  excuse me for a moment while i catch my breath...what are you going to have?  we used to call it, the wolves guarding the hen house.  pretty good example of teaching kids WHAT to think rather than HOW to think-there's your accreditation.  and it starts from the top, but they really do think that they are doing a good job.  another example of ya don't know what you do not know...well, i don't know anyone who would cover it any other way??  let's start there

Dude not everything has a political narrative to it.

[rocket surgeon]

Dude not everything has a political narrative to it.

Where did I say anything about politics??  Dude. What I am saying is accrediting journalism is an oxymoron.  Why even try?  It's more sensationalism and what sells as opposed to the rest of the story.  I'm talking right/wrong, truth vs lies, coverups vs follow the money, it's not what ya know, but who ya know...I said nothing about politics. If politics plays a role in all of this, then what ever...I'm talking about doing the right thing-open up your mind. I purposely Did NOT bring politics up cuz we ain't sposed to, remember? 

[GGGG]

Where did I say anything about politics??  Dude. What I am saying is accrediting journalism is an oxymoron.  Why even try?  It's more sensationalism and what sells as opposed to the rest of the story.  I'm talking right/wrong, truth vs lies, coverups vs follow the money, it's not what ya know, but who ya know...I said nothing about politics. If politics plays a role in all of this, then what ever...I'm talking about doing the right thing-open up your mind. I purposely Did NOT bring politics up cuz we ain't sposed to, remember? 

Then I have no idea what you are saying here and what it has to do with accreditation.  As I have said earlier, it doesn't mean much to Northwestern, but means a lot to less prestigious programs.

[GooooMarquette]

      looking at the state of journalism today, i'm not so sure "accreditation" really means all that much. looking
at public opinion polls of the state of journalism and given the "tilt" of the profession, who is going to go in and try to give it back any of it's credibility?  what are they going to tell the students?  now remember, you have a journalistic oath to hold up?  you need to cover things from both sides?  excuse me for a moment while i catch my breath...what are you going to have?  we used to call it, the wolves guarding the hen house.  pretty good example of teaching kids WHAT to think rather than HOW to think-there's your accreditation.  and it starts from the top, but they really do think that they are doing a good job.  another example of ya don't know what you do not know...well, i don't know anyone who would cover it any other way??  let's start there

When was the last time you sat in on a journalism class at a top school?  Let's start right there.

It sounds like you don't like the facts being reported, so it's easier to assume the schools teach bias than to assume the facts are what they are....

[dgies9156]

It sounds like you don't like the facts being reported, so it's easier to assume the schools teach bias than to assume the facts are what they are....

While there is some media bias in the world -- there always has been -- journalism's biggest problems are economic and not political.

[MU82]

Where did I say anything about politics??  Dude. What I am saying is accrediting journalism is an oxymoron.  Why even try?  It's more sensationalism and what sells as opposed to the rest of the story.  I'm talking right/wrong, truth vs lies, coverups vs follow the money, it's not what ya know, but who ya know...I said nothing about politics. If politics plays a role in all of this, then what ever...I'm talking about doing the right thing-open up your mind. I purposely Did NOT bring politics up cuz we ain't sposed to, remember?

Ugh.

[rocket surgeon]

When was the last time you sat in on a journalism class at a top school?  Let's start right there.

It sounds like you don't like the facts being reported, so it's easier to assume the schools teach bias than to assume the facts are what they are....

the last time i sat in on a journalism class at a top school?  never.  i didn't know that was a qualification to have an opinion on what i read and/or hear.  by that type of logic, many here could not have an opinion on, say college basketball because they had never played, or legal issues because they had never sat in on a class on legal issues in a top law school.  let's face it, without getting political, there is a lot of "mish-mash" and advocacy crap out there. if you deny that, i have a wind turbine to sell you

     

[GooooMarquette]

the last time i sat in on a journalism class at a top school?  never.  i didn't know that was a qualification to have an opinion on what i read and/or hear.  by that type of logic, many here could not have an opinion on, say college basketball because they had never played, or legal issues because they had never sat in on a class on legal issues in a top law school.  let's face it, without getting political, there is a lot of "mish-mash" and advocacy crap out there. if you deny that, i have a wind turbine to sell you

You don't need to sit in a class to have an opinion about what you see and hear.  But you said:  "pretty good example of teaching kids WHAT to think rather than HOW to think-there's your accreditation."  A statement like that assumes you know what the J-schools are teaching.

Following now?

[rocket surgeon]

You don't need to sit in a class to have an opinion about what you see and hear.  But you said:  "pretty good example of teaching kids WHAT to think rather than HOW to think-there's your accreditation."  A statement like that assumes you know what the J-schools are teaching.

Following now?

ok, fair enough.  now this is where, in order for me to prove my points, i would have to get political and for the respect of this board, i will have to exercise some self control and stop here.  i apologize for leading us in this direction.  i guess my whole point is that i believe accreditation is over rated as it pertains to establishing the creditibility of institutions of higher learning.  allow the grads to determine this in the real world. once again, just my opinion

[GooooMarquette]

ok, fair enough.  now this is where, in order for me to prove my points, i would have to get political and for the respect of this board, i will have to exercise some self control and stop here.  i apologize for leading us in this direction.  i guess my whole point is that i believe accreditation is over rated as it pertains to establishing the creditibility of institutions of higher learning.  allow the grads to determine this in the real world. once again, just my opinion

I never disagreed with you on that.  Peace.

[rocket surgeon]

I never disagreed with you on that.  Peace.