Raiders to Vegas

[Tugg Speedman]

A friend emailed this.  Interesting comments

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I remember us having the discussion a few years ago that the NFL’s popularity had probably peaked and that Junior Seau’s suicide marked an important and damaging turning point.  I think all of these franchise moves, esp from cities like Oakland (which have devoted fan bases) is going to make things work.  And the NFL seems to have forgotten that the NFL didn’t work in LA before and no reason to think that two teams will do better than one (abandoning another devoted fan base in the process and destroying some great AFC West rivalries).
 
And I like this insight from Deadspin on Las Vegas:

Let’s take an NFL team, a roster of 53 athletic young men, some as young as 21 or so. Some of them are making enormous amounts of money; the league minimum is roughly $465,000. They are active from mid-to-late July to January, or February if they’re in the playoffs. Sometimes, when injured, they have significant amounts of time away from the regimented routine of the season… now let’s put all of those young men in Sin City, surrounded by casinos, clubs, strippers, and every other temptation under the sun. What’s the worst that could happen, right?

[Pakuni]

Let’s take an NFL team, a roster of 53 athletic young men, some as young as 21 or so. Some of them are making enormous amounts of money; the league minimum is roughly $465,000. They are active from mid-to-late July to January, or February if they’re in the playoffs. Sometimes, when injured, they have significant amounts of time away from the regimented routine of the season… now let’s put all of those young men in Sin City, surrounded by casinos, clubs, strippers, and every other temptation under the sun. What’s the worst that could happen, right?

That's kind of silly.
1. There are clubs, strippers and other temptations in every NFL city (OK, maybe not Green Bay). I mean, how have the Miami Dolphins, Atlanta Falcons, Dallas Cowboys and New York Giants survived all these years?
2. Many, if not most, guys don't live year-round in the cities in which they play.
3. Most anyone who's spent more than an occasional weekend in Vegas will tell you it gets old really fast.

[Tugg Speedman]

That's kind of silly.
1. There are clubs, strippers and other temptations in every NFL city (OK, maybe not Green Bay). I mean, how have the Miami Dolphins, Atlanta Falcons, Dallas Cowboys and New York Giants survived all these years?
2. Many, if not most, guys don't live year-round in the cities in which they play.
3. Most anyone who's spent more than an occasional weekend in Vegas will tell you it gets old really fast.

Most are not young, single, hyperagressive elite athletes with below average education and millions in the bank.

This demographic would disagree with you.

[HouWarrior]

Some of the NFL owners like Jerry Jones invested in the fantasy football websites. They flopped but I was surprised at the willingness to flirt so directly with gambling.

The Vegas move puts the first major pro sport team in the gambling mecca of Vegas.

The Superbowl is the biggest betting day of the year.

Will the NFL harm its product with continued flirtations/associations with the gambling side?

Boxing became so pervasively fixed/mobbed up that few trusted its outcomes in the 40s to 60s...of course it too had violence concussion issues. Its popularity is a fraction of its former self.

Between the violence/concussions and gambling flirtations in the NFL, I too wonder whether we are seeing the early stages of this sports popularity demise

[Pakuni]

Most are not young, single, hyperagressive elite athletes with below average education and millions in the bank.

This demographic would disagree with you.

OK.
Who am I to question your deep understanding of the life and mindset of elite athletes.

[Pakuni]

Between the violence/concussions and gambling flirtations in the NFL, I too wonder whether we are seeing the early stages of this sports popularity demise

1. The NFL owes a large part of its popularity to gambling.
2. In the age of online gambling, a team's physical location is irrelevant.
3. NFL players, by and large, make too much money to be influenced by gambling interests. Like, is JJ Watt going to jeopardize his $100 million contract to make some side money by helping point shavers?

[StillAWarrior]

Most are not young, single, hyperagressive elite athletes with below average education and millions in the bank.

This demographic would disagree with you.

And you know this how?  Assuming you're correct, I would expect that most professional athletes spend their off seasons on Vegas, since they're young, single hyperaggressive elite athletes with below average education and millions in the bank.  Except they don't.  But I hear they do enjoy occasional weekends in Vegas...which was kind of the point that you seem to be arguing against.

[wadesworld]

And you know this how?  Assuming you're correct, I would expect that most professional athletes spend their off seasons on Vegas, since they're young, single hyperaggressive elite athletes with below average education and millions in the bank.  Except they don't.  But I hear they do enjoy occasional weekends in Vegas...which was kind of the point that you seem to be arguing against.

Exactly.  It's not exactly hard for someone who makes a couple million dollars a year to find affordable living in Las Vegas if they want to...yet...

[Tugg Speedman]

I will just point out that I was responding to Pakuni saying Vegas gets really old after one weekend.   

All I said was that young athletes are not bored after three days in Vegas.  The rest was you guys pretending you were me and moving the goalposts.

[wadesworld]

I will just point out that I was responding to Pakuni saying Vegas gets really old after one weekend.   

All I said was that young athletes are not bored after three days in Vegas.  The rest was you guys pretending you were me and moving the goalposts.

Lol.

[StillAWarrior]

I will just point out that I was responding to Pakuni saying Vegas gets really old after one weekend.   

All I said was that young athletes are not bored after three days in Vegas.  The rest was you guys pretending you were me and moving the goalposts.

If you're going to tell us what Pakuni said, you might at least make an effort to get it right.  Despite how you read or interpreted it, Pakuni most assuredly did not say that "Vegas gets really old after one weekend."  He said, "Most anyone who's spent more than an occasional weekend in Vegas will tell you it gets old really fast."  It's quite different.  The implication of Pakuni's statement is that an occasional weekend in Vegas is nice, but if you spend more than that, it gets old "really fast."  Perhaps that is precisely why a lot of young athletes are known to enjoy spending an occasional weekend in Vegas, but I'm not particularly aware that a bunch of them are scrambling to live there.  If you've got something actually supporting your contention that Pakuni was wrong, knock yourself out.

[Jockey]

Most are not young, single, hyperagressive elite athletes with below average education and millions in the bank.

This demographic would disagree with you.

A minimum of 3 years in college does not equal "below average education".

You are wrong as always.

[muwarrior69]

So they are going to play in Oakland until the stadium is completed in Vegas. I wonder what kind of support they will get.

[Tugg Speedman]

A minimum of 3 years in college does not equal "below average education".

You are wrong as always.

Correct, I'm always wrong and you are correct.

Think about it.

[Tugg Speedman]

If you're going to tell us what Pakuni said, you might at least make an effort to get it right.  Despite how you read or interpreted it, Pakuni most assuredly did not say that "Vegas gets really old after one weekend."  He said, "Most anyone who's spent more than an occasional weekend in Vegas will tell you it gets old really fast."  It's quite different.  The implication of Pakuni's statement is that an occasional weekend in Vegas is nice, but if you spend more than that, it gets old "really fast."  Perhaps that is precisely why a lot of young athletes are known to enjoy spending an occasional weekend in Vegas, but I'm not particularly aware that a bunch of them are scrambling to live there.  If you've got something actually supporting your contention that Pakuni was wrong, knock yourself out.

You did not really do this ... did you, 200+ words parsing what I said verse what Pakuni said.

Sad

[Pakuni]

I will just point out that I was responding to Pakuni saying Vegas gets really old after one weekend.   

All I said was that young athletes are not bored after three days in Vegas.  The rest was you guys pretending you were me and moving the goalposts.

How many young athletes share their thoughts on Vegas with you?
And what makes you think all young athletes are a hive mind?

Try this. Find some people who live in Vegas and poll them about how much of their leisure time they spend on the Strip.

[Tugg Speedman]

How many young athletes share their thoughts on Vegas with you?
And what makes you think all young athletes are a hive mind?

Try this. Find some people who live in Vegas and poll them about how much of their leisure time they spend on the Strip.

No, you're correct, everyone agrees with you.

[Spotcheck Billy]

So they are going to play in Oakland until the stadium is completed in Vegas. I wonder what kind of support they will get.

My thought also, couldn't they do like the Bears and Vikings and play at a college stadium like UNLV?

[Pakuni]

No, you're correct, everyone agrees with you.

Should I take this reply to mean zero young athletes share their thoughts on Vegas with you?

[Pakuni]

My thought also, couldn't they do like the Bears and Vikings and play at a college stadium like UNLV?

The UNLV stadium is old and would require some major upgrades. Its capacity is only about 35K.

[StillAWarrior]

You did not really do this ... did you, 200+ words parsing what I said verse what Pakuni said.

Sad

I did. What can I say; I love irony. You misrepresented what Pakuni said in a post complaining about others moving the goalposts.

[Tugg Speedman]

Should I take this reply to mean zero young athletes share their thoughts on Vegas with you?

I believe I have the same number as you. 

That's why I'm going with your contention that everyone that occasionally visits Vegas is bored with it after three days.  You apparently are an expert on this.

[Tugg Speedman]

I did. What can I say; I love irony. You misrepresented what Pakuni said in a post complaining about others moving the goalposts.

Sad that this bothers you this much.

[#UnleashSean]

Scoop gets hung up on the dumbest things.

[StillAWarrior]

Sad that this bothers you this much.

Fair enough; mine is a sad existence.  I suppose I can take some solace in the fact that I'm not the one who made an idiotic and clearly incorrect statement; got repeatedly called out for said idiocy; and then pouted about it.  Hopefully, I can summon the strength to carry on.

[GooooMarquette]

The UNLV stadium is old and would require some major upgrades. Its capacity is only about 35K.

True, but it'll be interesting to see if they get more than that as a lame duck team in Oakland.

[DegenerateDish]

I think the notion of Vegas being a disaster for young players is wrong. Times have drastically changed. If a young player got caught up in a partying lifestyle (determine that as you will), the NFL will spit and chew out those players out of the league so fast. From July - January, a player has roughly a day and a half a week off and a four day weekend for a bye week. If a player can't survive Vegas, they ain't going to survive in most other markets either.

One thing is for certain, this is the gambling tipping point for the NFL. Especially if in game wagering is allowed at Raiders home games.

[Tugg Speedman]

Fair enough; mine is a sad existence.  I suppose I can take some solace in the fact that I'm not the one who made an idiotic and clearly incorrect statement; got repeatedly called out for said idiocy; and then pouted about it.  Hopefully, I can summon the strength to carry on.

Ok, noted you think my statement that that young elite athletes will millions of dollars in their pocket don't get bored in Vegas after one weekend is clearly incorrect and idiotic.  In fact this statement is so wildly incorrect that you have now spent hundreds of words and many posts fighting about it.

Again I stand corrected, as noted above.  Scoop in a better place for your rant and on behalf of all, I thank you for correcting this injustice.

[warriorchick]

3. Most anyone who's spent more than an occasional weekend in Vegas will tell you it gets old really fast.

Not necessarily.  Glow and I own a place out there, and we only go to the strip if there is a show we want to see or a restaurant where we want to eat at.

If you go out to the western part, it is really nice. It looks more like Palm Springs or Scottsdale out there. We are still in the city proper and this is the view from our balcony:



Out another window you can see the strip in the distance. Nearby is great golf (including a TPC course), upscale shopping and restaurants, and amazing hiking in those mountains you see in that picture.  But if we want to party on the strip, it's 15 minutes away.

[StillAWarrior]

Ok, noted you think my statement that that young elite athletes will millions of dollars in their pocket don't get bored in Vegas after one weekend is clearly incorrect and idiotic.  In fact this statement is so wildly incorrect that you have now spent hundreds of words and many posts fighting about it.

Again I stand corrected, as noted above.  Scoop in a better place for your rant and on behalf of all, I thank you for correcting this injustice.

Never said that, but you keep trying.  You'll get your word count up.

[Tugg Speedman]

Never said that, but you keep trying.  You'll get your word count up.

The proper way to insult me is I want my clicks up, not word count.

[GGGG]

The UNLV stadium is old and would require some major upgrades. Its capacity is only about 35K.

What I don't understand is why they don't invest in making those upgrades now so they can move there by 2018.  The new Vegas stadium isn't going to be finished until 2020 and Davis is planning to be in Oakland (or elsewhere) until then?  That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

[Tugg Speedman]

[Tugg Speedman]

About that everyone that occasionally visits Vegas gets bored after one weekend ...

Bunny Ranch owner to open Raiders-themed brothel just outside of Las Vegas
One particular Vegas-area business is planning to take advantage of the NFL club's impending move

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/bunny-ranch-owner-to-open-raiders-themed-brothel-just-outside-of-las-vegas/

Just hours after the NFL approved the Raiders move to Las Vegas, Hof, who owns the famous Bunny Ranch, announced that he’s going to open a Raiders-themed brothel by 2020.

If Roger Goodell thought gambling was going to be the NFL’s biggest issue in Vegas, he might change his mind after listening to what Hof has to say.

For one, Hof said Raiders players will get 50 percent off at all of his brothels -- the Raiders establishment will be his seventh -- and they’ll also get VIP treatment at the newest brothel, which will be called The Pirate’s Booty Sports Brothel.

“I’ve had a license for a seventh brothel near Las Vegas for some time now, but I was waiting for the right time to launch another house of debauchery,” Hof said in a statement, via the Las Vegas Sun. “The Raiders coming to Vegas will mean big business for me.”

And just in case you’re wondering, yes, the girls will be dressed like cheerleaders.

“The VIP section will be exclusively available to Raiders players and other high-profile athletes and staffed with over 20 cheerleader-garbed working girls,” Hof said.

[GGGG]

Good thing he is providing that service because the one thing NFL players have trouble with is finding women.

[warriorchick]

Good thing he is providing that service because the one thing NFL players have trouble with is finding women.

True, but my guess is that there is less baby mama drama if you go to a professional.

[GooooMarquette]

What I don't understand is why they don't invest in making those upgrades now so they can move there by 2018.  The new Vegas stadium isn't going to be finished until 2020 and Davis is planning to be in Oakland (or elsewhere) until then?  That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Yeah, that's a long time to play in a city you're leaving.  Kind of a reverse Bob Irsay....

[GGGG]

Yeah, that's a long time to play in a city you're leaving.  Kind of a reverse Bob Irsay....

Actually the City of Oakland doesn't want them there and is trying to get them out of the lease.  They are talking about sharing the Niners facility for a couple years or even moving to a city like San Antonio.

[MUBurrow]

Actually the City of Oakland doesn't want them there and is trying to get them out of the lease.  They are talking about sharing the Niners facility for a couple years or even moving to a city like San Antonio.

Hasn't San Antonio been mentioned in the past as an expansion/relocation candidate? And the Niners have had trouble getting butts in the seats since building the new place, correct? Probably gives some insight into what the owners were talking about for the 45 minutes before they approved the Vegas relocation.

[GooooMarquette]

Actually the City of Oakland doesn't want them there and is trying to get them out of the lease.  They are talking about sharing the Niners facility for a couple years or even moving to a city like San Antonio.

Maybe they could go to some rabid hotbed of college football with a big stadium.  Somewhere like Knoxville, Lincoln or Auburn? 

[warriorchick]

Maybe they could go to some rabid hotbed of college football with a big stadium.  Somewhere like Knoxville, Lincoln or Auburn?

The only time you will get anyone in Neyland Stadium for a Raiders game is if it is an away game for the Titans.

[warriorchick]

Scoop certain Scoopers gets hung up on the dumbest things.

FIFY

[GooooMarquette]

The only time you will get anyone in Neyland Stadium for a Raiders game is if it is an away game for the Titans.

Maybe true.  Still, I don't see why that's any different from going to a place like San Antonio...where people would probably only go for road games against the Cowboys.....

If they aren't going to use UNLV's stadium, they might just as well pull a Barnum & Bailey and take the show on the road.  San Antonio one week, Auburn the next, etc....

[Tugg Speedman]

Maybe true.  Still, I don't see why that's any different from going to a place like San Antonio...where people would probably only go for road games against the Cowboys.....

If they aren't going to use UNLV's stadium, they might just as well pull a Barnum & Bailey and take the show on the road.  San Antonio one week, Auburn the next, etc....

Think business ... it's about who will throw money at them.  San Antonio would love Raiders and shower them with money to come.  Even if it is just two years, they want to show that they are ready for an NFL team ... and then go after Jacksonville, KC, Buffalo, etc.

[4everwarriors]

Maybe dey'll have topless cheerleaders, ai na?

[warriorchick]

Maybe true.  Still, I don't see why that's any different from going to a place like San Antonio...where people would probably only go for road games against the Cowboys.....

If they aren't going to use UNLV's stadium, they might just as well pull a Barnum & Bailey and take the show on the road.  San Antonio one week, Auburn the next, etc....

Well over half of the folks who go to UT games live closer to Nashville than Knoxville.  My sister and her husband had Vols season tickets and would drive from Memphis - a 6-hour drive each way.  No way is anyone going to do that for the Raiders.

Besides, Neyland holds 102,000 fans.  Under any circumstances, I can't imagine any pro team filling a stadium that big for a normal Sunday game (with the possible exception of the Packers).  Best case scenario, it would be 1/2 full on any given game.

Makes much more sense to put them in a place that is trying to get a team, so that the city can prove they can put butts in the seats.

[DegenerateDish]

I have a hunch you're getting a season or two of the London Raiders.

[4everwarriors]

Under any circumstances, I can't imagine any pro team filling a stadium that big for a normal Sunday game (with the possible exception of the Packers).  Best case scenario, it would be 1/2 full on any given game.





Even money if dey got topless cheerleaders, hey?

[GGGG]

Maybe dey'll have topless cheerleaders, ai na?

Even money if dey got topless cheerleaders, hey?

It wasn't all that funny the first time you tried that line.

[rocket surgeon]

Not necessarily.  Glow and I own a place out there, and we only go to the strip if there is a show we want to see or a restaurant where we want to eat at.

If you go out to the western part, it is really nice. It looks more like Palm Springs or Scottsdale out there. We are still in the city proper and this is the view from our balcony:



Out another window you can see the strip in the distance. Nearby is great golf (including a TPC course), upscale shopping and restaurants, and amazing hiking in those mountains you see in that picture.  But if we want to party on the strip, it's 15 minutes away.

NICE!!!  A LOT of great golf courses might i add
       i am a real sucker for the southwest.  i love the arid climate, views/sunsets, storm watching(from a distance of course) mountains, ATV'ing, golf, people watching, entertainment, restaurants/food varieties and...........a little dabbling in the casino  

[JWags85]

None of those casinos has sports betting. The NFL isn't worried about its employees playing some Blackjack

[Herman Cain]

Not necessarily.  Glow and I own a place out there, and we only go to the strip if there is a show we want to see or a restaurant where we want to eat at.

If you go out to the western part, it is really nice. It looks more like Palm Springs or Scottsdale out there. We are still in the city proper and this is the view from our balcony:



Out another window you can see the strip in the distance. Nearby is great golf (including a TPC course), upscale shopping and restaurants, and amazing hiking in those mountains you see in that picture.  But if we want to party on the strip, it's 15 minutes away.

Are you two out there eventually for tax reasons?

[warriorchick]

Are you two out there eventually for tax reasons?

That would be one of the reasons.

[Herman Cain]

That would be one of the reasons.

Sound move, wish I could do it  now.  The best part is you have more resources for Blue and Gold fund.