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Author Topic: Archie Miller to IU  (Read 13730 times)

WesMatthewsFanClub

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Archie Miller to IU
« on: March 25, 2017, 11:37:56 AM »
Per Jeff Goodman and more on Twitter.

A much better get than Alford, right?

4everwarriors

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Re: Archie Miller to IU
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2017, 11:50:42 AM »
Coaches no matta, ai na?
"Give 'Em Hell, Al"

4everwarriors

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Re: Archie Miller to IU
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2017, 11:52:30 AM »
Flyers learnt 'bout dis on ESPN, hey?
"Give 'Em Hell, Al"

GoldenWarrior11

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Re: Archie Miller to IU
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2017, 11:54:32 AM »
Great hire for IU, although the similarities to Crean will surely turn some old school Hoosier fans off.  Young, energetic coach, from the Midwest, from a Catholic school, with a single deep tournament run. 

Some fans will be disappointed that they didn't get a Billy Donovan, or a Tony Bennett, or a Brad Stevens, but none of those candidates were really available or really interested. 

If I'm Crean, I would be very interested in the Dayton job.  Strong fan base, Midwestern city, strong basketball program, and he could coach there for the rest of his career - and he'd be appreciated there.

Jay Bee

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Re: Archie Miller to IU
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2017, 11:55:56 AM »
Do we talk to Kin in the near future?...
Thanks for ruining summer, Canada.

tower912

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Re: Archie Miller to IU
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2017, 12:25:01 PM »
Whither Kostas?
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

4everwarriors

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Re: Archie Miller to IU
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2017, 12:30:17 PM »
Duz Giannis have eligibility left, hey?
"Give 'Em Hell, Al"

tower912

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Re: Archie Miller to IU
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2017, 12:31:38 PM »
I wonder how UDPride is?  His thoughts would be entertaining.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Eldon

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Re: Archie Miller to IU
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2017, 12:47:35 PM »
I wonder how UDPride is?  His thoughts would be entertaining.

Friend of a friend told me that he's outraged about Miller leaving, but can't post because he's been having some computer troubles


Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Archie Miller to IU
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2017, 01:24:28 PM »
The Bloomington barbers are happy as they won't need to learn any new hair techniques...




Tugg Speedman

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Re: Archie Miller to IU
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2017, 01:40:22 PM »
Let me argue this is a terrible hire tantamount to IU admitting they are a formerly elite team and now in the class of tOSU, Purdue and Iowa ... an upper half Big Ten 10 team but nothing special.

First, in this post is Crean's 9 year record at IU, compared to MU.

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=53996.0

They are remarkably similar, showing rankings, including top 10 and even no. 1.  They even weeks in the top 5 this year and were the 11th best team last year per KenPom.  Yet none of this was good enough.

Second, their was stories they would pay Alford's nearly $8 million buyout and pay nearly $6 million a year for a new coach.

So given all this they took Archie Miller.  I have not heard terms but i'm guessing he is not breaking the bank.

If Miller finishes 18th next year and get the second round of the tournament, is that a successful year?  That's what Crean was more or less giving them (Crean was S16 last year) and he was shown the door.

Anyone want to make case Archie is going to 4 FF in the next 7 years.  I cannot see it.

Bottom line, IU is giving up, they are content being Iowa or Ohio State.  They are formerly elite.

What's wrong with this argument?
« Last Edit: March 25, 2017, 01:42:05 PM by Dread Pirate Roberts »

muwarrior69

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Re: Archie Miller to IU
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2017, 01:51:36 PM »
Let me argue this is a terrible hire tantamount to IU admitting they are a formerly elite team and now in the class of tOSU, Purdue and Iowa ... an upper half Big Ten 10 team but nothing special.

First, in this post is Crean's 9 year record at IU, compared to MU.

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=53996.0

They are remarkably similar, showing rankings, including top 10 and even no. 1.  They even weeks in the top 5 this year and were the 11th best team last year per KenPom.  Yet none of this was good enough.

Second, their was stories they would pay Alford's nearly $8 million buyout and pay nearly $6 million a year for a new coach.

So given all this they took Archie Miller.  I have not heard terms but i'm guessing he is not breaking the bank.

If Miller finishes 18th next year and get the second round of the tournament, is that a successful year?  That's what Crean was more or less giving them (Crean was S16 last year) and he was shown the door.

Anyone want to make case Archie is going to 4 FF in the next 7 years.  I cannot see it.

Bottom line, IU is giving up, they are content being Iowa or Ohio State.  They are formerly elite.

What's wrong with this argument?


....you forgot Horishima!

MU82

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Re: Archie Miller to IU
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2017, 02:26:39 PM »
Let me argue this is a terrible hire tantamount to IU admitting they are a formerly elite team and now in the class of tOSU, Purdue and Iowa ... an upper half Big Ten 10 team but nothing special.

First, in this post is Crean's 9 year record at IU, compared to MU.

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=53996.0

They are remarkably similar, showing rankings, including top 10 and even no. 1.  They even weeks in the top 5 this year and were the 11th best team last year per KenPom.  Yet none of this was good enough.

Second, their was stories they would pay Alford's nearly $8 million buyout and pay nearly $6 million a year for a new coach.

So given all this they took Archie Miller.  I have not heard terms but i'm guessing he is not breaking the bank.

If Miller finishes 18th next year and get the second round of the tournament, is that a successful year?  That's what Crean was more or less giving them (Crean was S16 last year) and he was shown the door.

Anyone want to make case Archie is going to 4 FF in the next 7 years.  I cannot see it.

Bottom line, IU is giving up, they are content being Iowa or Ohio State.  They are formerly elite.

What's wrong with this argument?

What's wrong with it is that you have absolutely no idea how Archie Miller will do at Indiana.

He might end up being the second best coach they've ever had ... or he might be way worse than the guy they just fired.

Is going to 4 FF in 7 years the only sign of success at Indiana? Has Duke gone to 4 FF the last 7 years? Has UNC? Have K and Roy failed?

Miller obviously knows how to coach a little bit, and how to recruit, too. To say with such certainty that hiring him relegates Indiana to "formerly elite," well that's a very Smuggles thing to do.

I mean, the last time you were this certain about something was when you said AAPL wasn't a buy in the low-$90s.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

tower912

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Re: Archie Miller to IU
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2017, 02:30:11 PM »
Any hire is a dice roll.  Any time you fire a coach and go looking for a new one, there is a chance that you get a Matt Doherty, a Bob Dukiet, Chris Mack, a Shaka Smart.  Every fanbase is delusional enough to think that they can do better.   The truth is, there simply aren't that many elite coaches out there.   Most of the time, fanbases feel like  they settled. And  good coaches can be bad fits.  Rich Rod.  Or can't miss candidates suck.  Charlie Weis.   Even the hood got fired.  So did Francona. 
« Last Edit: March 25, 2017, 03:25:18 PM by tower912 »
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Tugg Speedman

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Re: Archie Miller to IU
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2017, 03:19:55 PM »
What's wrong with it is that you have absolutely no idea how Archie Miller will do at Indiana.

He might end up being the second best coach they've ever had ... or he might be way worse than the guy they just fired.

Is going to 4 FF in 7 years the only sign of success at Indiana? Has Duke gone to 4 FF the last 7 years? Has UNC? Have K and Roy failed?

Miller obviously knows how to coach a little bit, and how to recruit, too. To say with such certainty that hiring him relegates Indiana to "formerly elite," well that's a very Smuggles thing to do.

I mean, the last time you were this certain about something was when you said AAPL wasn't a buy in the low-$90s.

Do you agree that Miller has to do better than Crean to be a success?  Merely repeating Crean's success ... consistently ranked and visiting the S16 every few years will not be good enough as Crean did that and he was shown the door.

I agree with you no one has an idea how good he is.  But if they whiff on this hire, defined as repeating Crean's success, only old guys in depends will remember they were elite.

buckchuckler

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Re: Archie Miller to IU
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2017, 03:23:15 PM »
only old guys in depends will remember they were elite.

This is already the case.

Tugg Speedman

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Re: Archie Miller to IU
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2017, 03:23:25 PM »
Any hire is a dice roll.  Any time you fire a coach and go looking for a new one, there is a chance that you get a Matt Doherty, a Bob Dukiet, Chris Mack, a Shaka Smart.  Every fanbase is delusional enough to think that they can do better.   The truth is, there simply aren't that many elite coaches out there.   Most of the time, fanbase feel lime they settled. And  good coaches can be bad fits.  Rich Rod.  Or can't miss candidates suck.  Charlie Weis.   Even the hood got fired.  So did Francona.

100% agree on this.  But Indiana considers itself elite.  Crean did not deliver elite results which is why he's the former coach. So if the next coach doesn't deliver it elite results everyone will forget they were really program

Pakuni

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Re: Archie Miller to IU
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2017, 04:45:22 PM »
What's wrong with this argument?

Everything.

GooooMarquette

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Re: Archie Miller to IU
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2017, 05:30:18 PM »

If I'm Crean, I would be very interested in the Dayton job.  Strong fan base, Midwestern city, strong basketball program, and he could coach there for the rest of his career - and he'd be appreciated there.


Virtual coach swap?

I can't think of any examples where this has happened.  Anyone?

CincyEagle

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Re: Archie Miller to IU
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2017, 08:00:44 PM »
Let me argue this is a terrible hire tantamount to IU admitting they are a formerly elite team and now in the class of tOSU, Purdue and Iowa ... an upper half Big Ten 10 team but nothing special.

First, in this post is Crean's 9 year record at IU, compared to MU.

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=53996.0

They are remarkably similar, showing rankings, including top 10 and even no. 1.  They even weeks in the top 5 this year and were the 11th best team last year per KenPom.  Yet none of this was good enough.

Second, their was stories they would pay Alford's nearly $8 million buyout and pay nearly $6 million a year for a new coach.

So given all this they took Archie Miller.  I have not heard terms but i'm guessing he is not breaking the bank.

If Miller finishes 18th next year and get the second round of the tournament, is that a successful year?  That's what Crean was more or less giving them (Crean was S16 last year) and he was shown the door.

Anyone want to make case Archie is going to 4 FF in the next 7 years.  I cannot see it.

Bottom line, IU is giving up, they are content being Iowa or Ohio State.  They are formerly elite.

What's wrong with this argument?

Do you really see tOSU, Purdue, and Iowa in the same class? I would argue tOSU has been the second best program in the BIG over my lifetime (25 years). Indiana is a basketball rich state, but I think it's reasonable to suggest that the Indiana program begins and ends with Bob Knight.

I don't think there's anything wrong with being tOSU if you're Indiana. In fact, had Crean been as successful as Matta has been at tOSU, he'd likely still be employed. The sooner the Indiana faithful see it this way (and they seem to with the hiring of Archie), the better.

« Last Edit: March 25, 2017, 08:02:30 PM by CincyEagle »

GGGG

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Re: Archie Miller to IU
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2017, 08:08:42 PM »
Do you really see tOSU, Purdue, and Iowa in the same class? I would argue tOSU has been the second best program in the BIG over my lifetime (25 years). Indiana is a basketball rich state, but I think it's reasonable to suggest that the Indiana program begins and ends with Bob Knight.


It is not reasonable to suggest that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Branch_McCracken


I don't think there's anything wrong with being tOSU if you're Indiana. In fact, had Crean been as successful as Matta has been at tOSU, he'd likely still be employed. The sooner the Indiana faithful see it this way (and they seem to with the hiring of Archie), the better.

This is correct however.

GooooMarquette

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Re: Archie Miller to IU
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2017, 08:19:09 PM »
Do you really see tOSU, Purdue, and Iowa in the same class? I would argue tOSU has been the second best program in the BIG over my lifetime (25 years). Indiana is a basketball rich state, but I think it's reasonable to suggest that the Indiana program begins and ends with Bob Knight.

I don't think there's anything wrong with being tOSU if you're Indiana. In fact, had Crean been as successful as Matta has been at tOSU, he'd likely still be employed. The sooner the Indiana faithful see it this way (and they seem to with the hiring of Archie), the better.

Agree that tOSU is good - clearly better than Iowa and Purdue, but I'd argue that both UW and MSU have been better.  Maybe if you lean more heavily on the earlier part of that 25 years, they be up with UW...but if you look at the whole picture or pay more attention to the latter part, not so much.  And the trajectory of tOSU isn't good.  Three straight B14 titles a few years back, but the last four seasons they have finished 4th, 6th, 7th and 9th.  Kinda doubt the IU fans are looking for that....
« Last Edit: March 25, 2017, 08:20:57 PM by GooooMarquette »

CincyEagle

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Re: Archie Miller to IU
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2017, 08:46:35 PM »
Agree that tOSU is good - clearly better than Iowa and Purdue, but I'd argue that both UW and MSU have been better.  Maybe if you lean more heavily on the earlier part of that 25 years, they be up with UW...but if you look at the whole picture or pay more attention to the latter part, not so much.  And the trajectory of tOSU isn't good.  Three straight B14 titles a few years back, but the last four seasons they have finished 4th, 6th, 7th and 9th.  Kinda doubt the IU fans are looking for that....

MSU is the given I think. As far as Wisconsin vs tOSU, tOSU has more conference championships, more conference tournament championships. Wisconsin has more Sweet 16 appearances and total NCAA tournament appearances. They have the same number of Elite 8 appearances, Final 4s, and NCAA runner-ups. Based on trajectory, I would say Wisconsin is the better program right now (and arguably over the last quarter-century), though I'd argue tOSU is the better job with more resources. I could see Chris Mack being incredibly successful at tOSU if he were interested when Thad is gone.

You're right about IU fans not being satisfied with finishes of 4th, 6th, 7th, and 9th. I'm sure tOSU fans are not either.

CincyEagle

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Re: Archie Miller to IU
« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2017, 08:54:00 PM »

It is not reasonable to suggest that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Branch_McCracken

I should have prefaced my statement with "in the modern era". The championships in the 50s are a big part of the history of IU basketball, but I don't think they should play any role in the expectation of a program in the 21st century. Maybe I'm off here.

MU82

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Re: Archie Miller to IU
« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2017, 09:59:15 PM »
Do you agree that Miller has to do better than Crean to be a success?  Merely repeating Crean's success ... consistently ranked and visiting the S16 every few years will not be good enough as Crean did that and he was shown the door.

I agree with you no one has an idea how good he is.  But if they whiff on this hire, defined as repeating Crean's success, only old guys in depends will remember they were elite.

OK, I agree with these hypotheticals. Yes, if he is no better than Crean, he won't be considered a success by HoosierLand.

I actually agreed with many of the what-ifs in your earlier post ... until you got to the certainty part:

Bottom line, IU is giving up, they are content being Iowa or Ohio State.  They are formerly elite.

No hypothetical question there. No facts, either. Just one guy's opinion.

And that's OK if it's presented as such. It wasn't. It was presented as, "I'm effen Smuggles, and I say Archie Miller will be such a failure that it's obvious IU is giving up."
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

 

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