collapse

* Resources


UDM 4

* Purdue SOTG

No Stud when we lose.
2017-18 Season SoG Tally
Rowsey1

'16-17 * '15-16
'14-15 * '13-14
'12-13 * '11-12 * '10-11

* Big East Standings

* Recent Posts

Future foes by bilsu
[Today at 05:57:19 AM]


NM by real chili 83
[Today at 03:29:45 AM]


OT: Buzz has hair by JWags85
[Today at 03:18:55 AM]


Recruiting as of 11/15/17 by Dr. Blackheart
[Today at 01:32:08 AM]


P U thoughts by Herman Cain
[Today at 12:28:14 AM]


Marquette NBA Thread by Herman Cain
[November 18, 2017, 11:52:25 PM]


RPI question by MU82
[November 18, 2017, 11:46:44 PM]

Please Register - It's FREE!

The absolute only thing required for this FREE registration is a valid e-mail address.  We keep all your information confidential and will NEVER give or sell it to anyone else.
Login to get rid of this box (and ads) , or register NOW!

* Next up: VCU (Maui Invitational)

Marquette
71
Marquette vs.

VCU

Date/Time: Nov 20, 1:30 p.m. CT
TV: ESPN2
Wiki entry for 2017-18
Purdue
86

Author Topic: [Paint Touches] Free Agent Tracker  (Read 22481 times)

Lennys Tap

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 7944
Re: [Paint Touches] Free Agent Tracker
« Reply #100 on: April 20, 2017, 03:39:44 PM »
Sam's defense was usually good, and sometimes very good. If only every other Warrior had executed defensively as well as Sam did. One of the pleasant surprises of the 2016-17 season.

I would love it if our team was so good that Sam was a 20-25-minute backup. We'll be in the Final Four at least once, maybe twice!

Nobody's defense on last year's team was "usually good".

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 7531
Re: [Paint Touches] Free Agent Tracker
« Reply #101 on: April 20, 2017, 03:47:47 PM »
Being the 4th best defender on an epically bad defensive team is, at best, damning with faint praise.

Whatever you say, Lenny.
"We were not made great as a country by indulging or even exalting our worst impulses, turning against ourselves, glorying in the things which divide us, and calling fake things true and true things fake."

naginiF

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 867
  • "kiss me you fool"
Re: [Paint Touches] Free Agent Tracker
« Reply #102 on: April 20, 2017, 04:10:07 PM »
........... However, I think he is more likely to go to Notre Dame then Wisconsin, if he does not pick MU.
If Joey goes to ND then transfers to Wisconsin muguru's head is going to explode creating a blast zone of negative thoughts 50 miles wide.

TAMU Eagle

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 10511
  • Wojo's Warriors
Re: [Paint Touches] Free Agent Tracker
« Reply #103 on: April 20, 2017, 04:14:03 PM »
Nobody's defense on last year's team was "usually good".

For the most part you are correct. A brief look at synergy tells me that most of our players were well below average on defense. There were three exceptions. Sam and Katin were actually above average across the board with Sam being the better of the two.

The interesting one is JJJ. This is the first time I ever ran his numbers. He was an elite on ball defender last season with "Excellent" or "Very Good" ratings in defending P&R, screen, hand off, and isolation situations. However, his defense of spot up shooters was ABYSMAL. He ranked in the bottom 2% of all players with ppp allowed of 1.382 on spot up shots. Never seen such a dichotomy before. Some of it has to be luck.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

Newsdreams

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2843
  • #representing #drinkingmamajuana
Re: [Paint Touches] Free Agent Tracker
« Reply #104 on: April 20, 2017, 07:56:27 PM »
If Joey goes to ND then transfers to Wisconsin muguru's head is going to explode creating a blast zone of negative thoughts 50 miles wide.
Hiroshima, hey?

Lennys Tap

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 7944
Re: [Paint Touches] Free Agent Tracker
« Reply #105 on: April 20, 2017, 08:41:13 PM »
For the most part you are correct. A brief look at synergy tells me that most of our players were well below average on defense. There were three exceptions. Sam and Katin were actually above average across the board with Sam being the better of the two.

The interesting one is JJJ. This is the first time I ever ran his numbers. He was an elite on ball defender last season with "Excellent" or "Very Good" ratings in defending P&R, screen, hand off, and isolation situations. However, his defense of spot up shooters was ABYSMAL. He ranked in the bottom 2% of all players with ppp allowed of 1.382 on spot up shots. Never seen such a dichotomy before. Some of it has to be luck.

JJJ was an excellent on ball defender. Duane was pretty good. So was Traci. Nobody else on the perimeter could stop dribble penetration at all. Haanif and Katin were bad, Rowsey and Markus were awful. I wouldn't give Sam, Matt or Luke grades for on ball D because they played inside. They were all pretty bad on defense, though - takes team effort to be that collectively bad.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 09:28:42 PM by Lennys Tap »

naginiF

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 867
  • "kiss me you fool"
Re: [Paint Touches] Free Agent Tracker
« Reply #106 on: April 20, 2017, 09:19:48 PM »

4everCrean

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 9471
  • He looked good in blue.
Re: [Paint Touches] Free Agent Tracker
« Reply #107 on: April 20, 2017, 10:46:11 PM »
Cripes you people sure make leaps here...where did i say that not landing Joey ruins Wojo's entire tenure as a Coach, or that it's the defining moment?? I never said that! All i said was..it would not be a good look for Wojo losing Joey when he has just about ever advantage going for him. That is all I said. And it wouldn't be a good look. That's indisputable, but if that's the worst thing that happens under Wojo's tenure, I'm good with that. As of this moment, the book is still out on Wojo. I know a lot of you wet your pants with excitement over them making the tourney..but that should be far from their defining moment under Wojo. If you are content with just getting in the tourney, then so far you are probably in love with Wojo, he's done that for you. He has recruiting well so far for the most part. I'll give him that.

You all are the same group that heaped endless praise on Wojo for his ability to land Henry..yet wouldn't ding him if he lost Joey. Hmmm..you can't have it both ways..If a Coach gets all the praise when he lands someone, then he too also has to take at least some responsibility in losing someone(depending on circumstances of course). So..kid commits=Praise....Kid doesn't commit=That's just the way recruiting is. All on a "HS kids decision". Got it.

I see the problem here.  Your ability to think logically is flawed.  If a task that someone doesn't succeed at is so difficult that "we" don't criticize them for falling short (i.e. we wouldn't ding Wojo for not landing Joey) then it follows logically that we would praise that person (Wojo) for succeeding at a very similar task (getting Henry).  Yet, you argue that the two are somehow inconsistent ("you can't have it both ways").
« Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 11:00:19 PM by 4everCrean »
Oh, I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused...

Sultan of Slap O' Fivin'

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22386
Re: [Paint Touches] Free Agent Tracker
« Reply #108 on: April 21, 2017, 08:20:37 AM »
I see the problem here.  Your ability to think logically is flawed.  If a task that someone doesn't succeed at is so difficult that "we" don't criticize them for falling short (i.e. we wouldn't ding Wojo for not landing Joey) then it follows logically that we would praise that person (Wojo) for succeeding at a very similar task (getting Henry).  Yet, you argue that the two are somehow inconsistent ("you can't have it both ways").


It's like praising someone for climbing Mount Everest, only to criticize them when they failed to climb K2.

muguru

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1503
Re: [Paint Touches] Free Agent Tracker
« Reply #109 on: April 21, 2017, 09:04:21 AM »
I see the problem here.  Your ability to think logically is flawed.  If a task that someone doesn't succeed at is so difficult that "we" don't criticize them for falling short (i.e. we wouldn't ding Wojo for not landing Joey) then it follows logically that we would praise that person (Wojo) for succeeding at a very similar task (getting Henry).  Yet, you argue that the two are somehow inconsistent ("you can't have it both ways").

No..the point I'm trying to make is if Wojo can't be held responsible for an 18 year old making a decision of his "own free will"(like stated here..ie Joey choosing to go someplace else"..then why does he get massive amounts of praise for landing Henry who also made a decision of his "own free will"? You can't make a statement like "own free will"=(solely of his own doing, a conscious decision he made on his own..with no outside influence either way) and apply it to one situation and not the other. By making that statement..it's implying it's solely on the kid.

RKMU123

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 581
Re: [Paint Touches] Free Agent Tracker
« Reply #110 on: April 21, 2017, 09:06:54 AM »
Didn't make Cam Johnson's final 6.

Arizona, tOSU, Kentucky, Oregon, UCLA, TCU

HoopsterBC

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 618
Re: [Paint Touches] Free Agent Tracker
« Reply #111 on: April 21, 2017, 09:25:57 AM »
Oregon or UCLA is my bet, with Oregon favorite as they lost there 3 best players.

Sultan of Slap O' Fivin'

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22386
Re: [Paint Touches] Free Agent Tracker
« Reply #112 on: April 21, 2017, 09:29:33 AM »
No..the point I'm trying to make is if Wojo can't be held responsible for an 18 year old making a decision of his "own free will"(like stated here..ie Joey choosing to go someplace else"..then why does he get massive amounts of praise for landing Henry who also made a decision of his "own free will"? You can't make a statement like "own free will"=(solely of his own doing, a conscious decision he made on his own..with no outside influence either way) and apply it to one situation and not the other. By making that statement..it's implying it's solely on the kid.


Here's why.  Because recruiting battles are hard.  Winning one is an accomplishment.  Losing one happens regularly.

If Wojo did his best, and the kid still wants to go elsewhere, I have trouble criticizing someone for that.  I mean by all accounts Sam loves Marquette.  His family loves Wojo.  He has been a presence at his games regularly.  If after all that, Joey decides to go to UW, it would be hard for me to blame that on Wojo.  Can you state what he should have done differently?

Tha Hound

  • Scholarship Player
  • **
  • Posts: 85
Re: [Paint Touches] Free Agent Tracker
« Reply #113 on: April 21, 2017, 10:06:53 AM »
With Cam Johnson out of the picture, looks like we are out on almost every potential big impact grad transfer. Really, really disappointing as I still think we are one key addition away from a step up next year. Oh well...

Nukem2

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3064
Re: [Paint Touches] Free Agent Tracker
« Reply #114 on: April 21, 2017, 10:35:07 AM »
With Cam Johnson out of the picture, looks like we are out on almost every potential big impact grad transfer. Really, really disappointing as I still think we are one key addition away from a step up next year. Oh well...
Its hard to get in on those impact grad transfers unless there is a previous connection (as MU had with Lockett, Carlino and Reinhardt).  There is a lot of competition for these guys

JamilJaeJamailJrJuan

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4352
  • Js for days
Re: [Paint Touches] Free Agent Tracker
« Reply #115 on: April 21, 2017, 10:38:06 AM »
With Cam Johnson out of the picture, looks like we are out on almost every potential big impact grad transfer. Really, really disappointing as I still think we are one key addition away from a step up next year. Oh well...

There are still several guys that don't have a firm list.  MiKyle McIntosh hasn't listed any names and he would fit well. 
I would take the Rick SLU program right now.

JamilJaeJamailJrJuan

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4352
  • Js for days
Re: [Paint Touches] Free Agent Tracker
« Reply #116 on: April 21, 2017, 10:39:03 AM »
Its hard to get in on those impact grad transfers unless there is a previous connection (as MU had with Lockett, Carlino and Reinhardt).  There is a lot of competition for these guys

This.  Plus with a guy like Egor - can you really blame him for going to Florida?  I mean, I am a die hard Marquette fan, and I'd probably rather spend a year in Florida than Milwaukee.....
I would take the Rick SLU program right now.

Lennys Tap

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 7944
Re: [Paint Touches] Free Agent Tracker
« Reply #117 on: April 21, 2017, 10:43:40 AM »

Here's why.  Because recruiting battles are hard.  Winning one is an accomplishment.  Losing one happens regularly.

If Wojo did his best, and the kid still wants to go elsewhere, I have trouble criticizing someone for that.  I mean by all accounts Sam loves Marquette.  His family loves Wojo.  He has been a presence at his games regularly.  If after all that, Joey decides to go to UW, it would be hard for me to blame that on Wojo.  Can you state what he should have done differently?

I agree - to a point. Every coach loses recruiting battles.

But every coach also wins some, and you can't possibly say that all 351 D1 coaches have "accomplishments" (the ones they win) and none by definition have "failures" (because recruiting is hard and they tried).

"Accomplishments" going after your secondary or tertiary (or worse) targets won't do a coach much good if his primary targets consistently get away. I usually say "meh" when we miss out on a guy. Not Joey H. He been our #1 target in that class forever, he's local and his brother is already at MU. Getting him could pay future dividends, losing him could result in future losses. By all accounts we're the heavy favorite - and losing recruiting battles under those circumstances are failures, plain and simple. The degree of blame that goes to the head coach (a lot, a little, almost none) is debatable - the fact that it's an important failure isn't.


wadesworld

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 9208
Re: [Paint Touches] Free Agent Tracker
« Reply #118 on: April 21, 2017, 10:45:29 AM »
I agree - to a point. Every coach loses recruiting battles.

But every coach also wins some, and you can't possibly say that all 351 D1 coaches have "accomplishments" (the ones they win) and none by definition have "failures" (because recruiting is hard and they tried).

"Accomplishments" going after your secondary or tertiary (or worse) targets won't do a coach much good if his primary targets consistently get away. I usually say "meh" when we miss out on a guy. Not Joey H. He been our #1 target in that class forever, he's local and his brother is already at MU. Getting him could pay future dividends, losing him could result in future losses. By all accounts we're the heavy favorite - and losing recruiting battles under those circumstances are failures, plain and simple. The degree of blame that goes to the head coach (a lot, a little, almost none) is debatable - the fact that it's an important failure isn't.

Missing out on a kid who is being recruited by Virginia, Michigan State, and has Duke and others sniffing around isn't a failure.  It'd be a disappointment, but not a failure.

BagpipingBoxer

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3769
Re: [Paint Touches] Free Agent Tracker
« Reply #119 on: April 21, 2017, 10:48:19 AM »
What if we me miss because the other people we've offered commit?
NCAA: 55, 59, 61, 68, 69, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 82, 83, 93, 94, 96, 97, 02, 03, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 11, 12, 13, 17
S16: 55, 59, 68, 69, 71, 72, 73, 74, 76, 77, 79, 94, 03, 11, 12, 13
E8: 55, 69, 74, 76, 77, 03, 13
F4: 74, 77, 03
F: 74, 77
C: 77

Sultan of Slap O' Fivin'

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22386
Re: [Paint Touches] Free Agent Tracker
« Reply #120 on: April 21, 2017, 10:55:46 AM »
I agree - to a point. Every coach loses recruiting battles.

But every coach also wins some, and you can't possibly say that all 351 D1 coaches have "accomplishments" (the ones they win) and none by definition have "failures" (because recruiting is hard and they tried).

"Accomplishments" going after your secondary or tertiary (or worse) targets won't do a coach much good if his primary targets consistently get away. I usually say "meh" when we miss out on a guy. Not Joey H. He been our #1 target in that class forever, he's local and his brother is already at MU. Getting him could pay future dividends, losing him could result in future losses. By all accounts we're the heavy favorite - and losing recruiting battles under those circumstances are failures, plain and simple. The degree of blame that goes to the head coach (a lot, a little, almost none) is debatable - the fact that it's an important failure isn't.


No it isn't a failure.

Ultimately what matters is if they win or lose.  If they don't land Joey, that in of itself isn't a failure.  If they don't land Joey, don't land a good back up recruit, and because of that they lose games, THAT is a failure.

But if they don't land Joey, land Race Thompson or someone else instead, and they go on to win games, then it is a disappointment that the coach worked to fix and ultimately succeeded. 

muguru

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1503
Re: [Paint Touches] Free Agent Tracker
« Reply #121 on: April 21, 2017, 11:16:52 AM »
What if we me miss because the other people we've offered commit?

If someone else commits say Kahvon Moore for example..and Joey still wants to come..you make room. Part of a coaches responsibility is to assemble as much talent as possible.

TAMU Eagle

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 10511
  • Wojo's Warriors
Re: [Paint Touches] Free Agent Tracker
« Reply #122 on: April 21, 2017, 11:28:53 AM »

No it isn't a failure.

Ultimately what matters is if they win or lose.  If they don't land Joey, that in of itself isn't a failure.  If they don't land Joey, don't land a good back up recruit, and because of that they lose games, THAT is a failure.

But if they don't land Joey, land Race Thompson or someone else instead, and they go on to win games, then it is a disappointment that the coach worked to fix and ultimately succeeded.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Recruiting isn't about winning individual battles, it is about winning the war (basketball games). I don't care if Wojo strikes out on his top 10 recruits as long his 11th ends up winning basketball games for us.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

BagpipingBoxer

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3769
Re: [Paint Touches] Free Agent Tracker
« Reply #123 on: April 21, 2017, 11:30:49 AM »
If someone else commits say Kahvon Moore for example..and Joey still wants to come..you make room. Part of a coaches responsibility is to assemble as much talent as possible.

Ah I see, so then what happens is making room alienates all the high school coaches in Detroit or Twin Cities then you come on here complaining how we can't get the best talent in those places when it's so close.

It's easy to be heartless and cut 18yr old with a small vision but looking to the future a bit it's not so simple.
NCAA: 55, 59, 61, 68, 69, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 82, 83, 93, 94, 96, 97, 02, 03, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 11, 12, 13, 17
S16: 55, 59, 68, 69, 71, 72, 73, 74, 76, 77, 79, 94, 03, 11, 12, 13
E8: 55, 69, 74, 76, 77, 03, 13
F4: 74, 77, 03
F: 74, 77
C: 77

TAMU Eagle

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 10511
  • Wojo's Warriors
Re: [Paint Touches] Free Agent Tracker
« Reply #124 on: April 21, 2017, 11:42:27 AM »
Ah I see, so then what happens is making room alienates all the high school coaches in Detroit or Twin Cities then you come on here complaining how we can't get the best talent in those places when it's so close.

It's easy to be heartless and cut 18yr old with a small vision but looking to the future a bit it's not so simple.

Eh, I agree that these are factors to consider.....but if Khavon Moore and Joey Hauser commit, I am ok with finding some room. I don't know who gets Pole-Axed but athletic scholarships are awarded to the best athletes. It is a bit heartless but it is the nature of college athletics. I would hope and expect that Wojo and co would help whatever pole-axee find a good landing spot at a new program
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper