MUBB pre 1955?

[Galway Eagle]

I was just on holylandofhoops and saw all these threads about how St. John's and seton hall were super dominant back in the 30s 40s and 50s and it got me wondering why there's not even an NIT invite pre 1955?

We didn't have a ton of great seasons but in 1921, 1922, 1923, 1933, 1934, 1938 & 1939 we had records that seem pretty good. Why no invites or attention from national media?

[The Lens]

We were a football school back then.  Hoops was just a distraction until the annual Spring Game.

[4everwarriors]

Pony express is enroute and smoke signal invites got tossed by da wind, ai na?

[Galway Eagle]

We were a football school back then.  Hoops was just a distraction until the annual Spring Game.

But I imagine the same can be said for Madison and yet they managed a national championship. 

[brewcity77]

Well the NIT didn't exist until 1938 and the NCAA Tournament didn't exist until 1939. In those days, the NIT took 6 teams and the NCAA took 8. Very difficult to get in with fields that small.

[Galway Eagle]

Well the NIT didn't exist until 1938 and the NCAA Tournament didn't exist until 1939. In those days, the NIT took 6 teams and the NCAA took 8. Very difficult to get in with fields that small.

Got it,thanks. still maintain its odd that there's not even a mention of those teams the way that other schools have helms championships etc. oh well

[Spotcheck Billy]

Got it,thanks. still maintain its odd that there's not even a mention of those teams the way that other schools have helms championships etc. oh well

East coast bias worked OK for St. John's & Seton Hall.

[brewcity77]

Got it,thanks. still maintain its odd that there's not even a mention of those teams the way that other schools have helms championships etc. oh well

We did win the National Catholic Invitational Tournament in the 1950s, but it's tough finding much on the history of that tournament. I also believe we were 12-14 the year we won it.

The Helms Championships are kind of funny. They started in 1936 and were awarded by the "Helms Foundation", which was really just the founder's name and only supported by his bakery business. After starting to award championships, he went back and retroactively awarded titles back to 1901 using only his opinion and personal research.

So basically, being a Helms Champion before 1936 is the equivalent of saying "we're the champion of one guy's opinion based on old newspaper clippings". It's about as close to totally meaningless as you can get.

[bilsu]

I was just on holylandofhoops and saw all these threads about how St. John's and seton hall were super dominant back in the 30s 40s and 50s and it got me wondering why there's not even an NIT invite pre 1955?

We didn't have a ton of great seasons but in 1921, 1922, 1923, 1933, 1934, 1938 & 1939 we had records that seem pretty good. Why no invites or attention from national media?

Bad RPI
We were beating schools like Milwaukee Normal, which is what I think UWM used to be called.

[oldwarrior81]

many of the teams that we consider present day D1 programs still were members in the NAIA rather than the NCAA in the late 40's and 50's.

The 1948 NAIA tournament finals had Louisville winning over Indiana State, with Xavier and Hamline also making the final four.   Other teams in the 32 team bracket: Gonzaga, Brigham Young, Miami Fla, Arizona State, Texas Tech, Southern Illinois, Marshall, San Jose State, Portland, Montana.  Mixed in with about a dozen schools that still play NAIA, D2 or D3 today.  Names like Texas Wesleyan, Cedarville Ohio, Peru State...

Beloit made a deep run in 1949, losing to Hamline in the semis.

[Dawson Rental]

But I imagine the same can be said for Madison and yet they managed a national championship.

In Evanston, Illinois.  In Northwestern's Patton Gym, IIRC.

[oldwarrior81]

in 1941, 7 of the 8 bids came from conference champions.  The approximate 73 independents competed for a single 8th slot along with the other conferences not included in the 7 bids.

[The Lens]

in 1941, 7 of the 8 bids came from conference champions.  The approximate 73 independents competed for a single 8th slot along with the other conferences not included in the 7 bids.

Would you describe this set up as more of a crap shoot or less of a crap shoot?  Asking for a friend.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

We didn't have a ton of great seasons but in 1921, 1922, 1923, 1933, 1934, 1938 & 1939 we had records that seem pretty good. Why no invites or attention from national media?

We had a pretty good chance in '23 until Chris Otule got injured.

[Newsdreams]

We had a pretty chance in '23 until Chris 'Otulegot injured.

There

[The Lens]

We had a pretty good chance in '23 until Chris Otule got injured.

You win

[Lennys Tap]

We didn't have a ton of great seasons but in 1921, 1922, 1923, 1933, 1934, 1938 & 1939 we had records that seem pretty good. Why no invites or attention from national media?

Hard bubble.

[Osiris]

We had a pretty good chance in '23 until Chris Otule got injured.

Slow clap.

[muwarrior69]

I went to a few college basketball games when I was in High School to see Bill Bradley play when he was at Princeton. Most games were not televised and we only got the ECAC game of the week on Saturdays. College basketball became a commodity in the mid to late '60s when TVS started televising games nationally culminating with the UCLA/Houston game played in the Astrodome in '69, which put college basketball on the map. So anything pre 1955 would not have any national impact for a school, but as you could see from the videos of the 100 years of MU basketball, winning the Catholic league back in '52 meant a lot to the players.

[dgies9156]

Saw a lot of college basketball as a kid in the 1960s in Nashville -- all Vanderbilt and a little bit of Marquette. It was just coming into its own then. The TVS contract brought the SEC Game of the Week but even Vanderbilt, which had a pretty good team in those days, was only on television twice a year -- once at home and once on the road.

We got such lovely games as Mississippi at Auburn. Great football match-up. Down-right ugly basketball, especially in what was the almost Lilly White SEC at the time. If you wanted to follow a team, you had to listen on the radio. I followed Marquette by calling a call-in sports score line and waiting for the MU score. No detail, just the score.

For us, even as late as the early 1970s, there were 24 teams in four regions in the NCAA. Conferences sent only their champions, so the notion of a selection committee or a seed committee pretty much was restricted to deciding which of about 80 "Major Independents" got to go. In the Mideast, it was us, Notre Dame, DePaul and Loyola. We hogged one of the spots for years, which meant only one other independent in our region, which included the Big 10, SEC, OVC and Mid-Am Champion.

Under these circumstances, it was tough for most basketball to get attention.

[Benny B]