Comparing MU and IU Under Crean

[Tugg Speedman]

Comparison

                      Marquette                       Indiana
Years              1999-2008 (9 yrs)       2008-2017 (9 yrs)
Win/Loss        190-96 (.664)            166-135 (.551)
Conf. W/L       90-56 (.616)               71-91 (.438)
Conf. Wins      1 (C-USA, 2003)         2 (2013, 2016)
Post Season    8 (5 NCAA)                 5 (4 NCAA)
S16 or Better   1 (FF, 2003)               3 (S16, '12, '13, '16)


Another set of amazingly similar results

Final season Kenpom ranking

Marquette (Kenpom started in 2002)
2002 =11
2003 = 15
2004 = 92
2005 = 100
2006 = 36
2007 = 38
Avg. 48.6

Indiana (excluded his first two years as they were rebuilding years)
2010 = 110
2011 = 82
2012 = 9
2013 = 3
2014 = 63
2015 = 48
2016 = 11
2017 = 47
Avg. 50


Here's another set of stats that are also amazingly similar

9 Years at MU (1999 - 2008)
Weeks Ranked 79
% of all weeks 41.8%
Highest = 8

9 Year at IU (2008 - 2017)
Weeks Ranked 75
% of all weeks 38.9%
Highest = 1


Here is a stat that leans favorably for IU

Marquette
Weeks ranked in top 10
7 total
2002 = 2 wks (peak 9)
2003 = 4 wks (peak 8 twice)
2007 = 1 wks (peak 8)

Indiana
Weeks ranked in top 10
27 total
2012 = 1 wks (peak 8)
2013 = 20 wks (peak 1, 9 times)
2016 = 1 wks (peak 10)
2017 = 5 wks (peak 5 twice)

Please add other metrics you think are relevant.

It looks pretty even.  Does that mean that IU and MU are equal programs?  They had the same coach and produced very similar results.  So, I say yes.

[tower912]

You could also compare Buzz's record at Virginia Tech and wojos record at Marquette.

[Tugg Speedman]

Here's another set of stats that are also amazingly similar

9 Years at MU (1999 - 2008)
Weeks Ranked 79
% of all weeks 41.8%
Highest = 8

9 Year at IU (2008 - 2017)
Weeks Ranked 75
% of all weeks 38.9%
Highest = 1

[lurch91]

The Final Four tips the scale in Marquette's favor.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Not even close.  He was never been a good coach.  I think he actually even regressed at IU.  He however may be the luckiest sumbitch in the history of college bball.  If it were not for Snagging Dwyane Wade he prolly doesnt last 5 years at MU and is a Fred Hill or Anthony Solomon type.  One short stint followed by being a career assistant.  He owes at least 10 years of being a head coach n 30 million to DWade, simply a poor coach.

[Dr. Blackheart]

The Final Four tips the scale in Marquette's favor.

And Indiana has a much higher recruiting base.

[Dawson Rental]

Comparison

                      Marquette                       Indiana
Years              1999-2008 (9 yrs)       2008-2017 (9 yrs)
Win/Loss        190-96 (.664)            166-135 (.551)
Conf. W/L       90-56 (.616)               71-91 (.438)
Conf. Wins      1 (C-USA, 2003)         2 (2013, 2016)
Post Season    8 (5 NCAA)                 5 (4 NCAA)
S16 or Better   1 (FF, 2003)               3 (S16, '12, '13, '16)

Please add other metrics you think are relevant.

It looks pretty even.  Does that mean that IU and MU are equal programs?  They had the same coach and produced very similar results.  So, I say yes.

Marquette: left for dream job
Indiana: got fired

[Tugg Speedman]

And Indiana has a much higher recruiting base.

The stats suggest this is a myth.  Or, it ended in when Knight was fired.

[lurch91]

Well,to be fair Big Ten competition > Conference USA competition.

[GooooMarquette]

Well,to be fair Big Ten competition > Conference USA competition.

And to be fair, BE competition > Big Ten competition.

IMHO, his biggest accomplishment other than the Final Four was moving us into the Big East without skipping a beat. 

[Goose]

MU era beats IU era, thanks to Wade.

[Dr. Blackheart]

The stats suggest this is a myth.  Or, it ended in when Knight was fired.

This doesn't look like a myth to me. Lots of NBA paper in nine years.

http://www.btpowerhouse.com/2016/6/14/11909648/ranking-tom-creans-nine-indiana-hoosiers-basketball-recruiting-classes

[rocket surgeon]

Not even close.  He was never been a good coach.  I think he actually even regressed at IU.  He however may be the luckiest sumbitch in the history of college bball.  If it were not for Snagging Dwyane Wade he prolly doesnt last 5 years at MU and is a Fred Hill or Anthony Solomon type.  One short stint followed by being a career assistant.  He owes at least 10 years of being a head coach n 30 million to DWade, simply a poor coach.

I understand your disdain, but in all fairness, every team ends up with a "diamond in the rough" every now and then.  Guys who ended up being better than advertised which could be a whole different and very interesting thread.  tommy seemed to walk around with a mirror in front of himself and saw a whole different image than the one he actually projected.  Maybe a little "couch time" would have done himself some good

[Tugg Speedman]

Here's another set of stats that are also amazingly similar

9 Years at MU (1999 - 2008)
Weeks Ranked 79
% of all weeks 41.8%
Highest = 8

9 Year at IU (2008 - 2017)
Weeks Ranked 75
% of all weeks 38.9%
Highest = 1

Here is a stat that leans favorably for IU

Marquette
Weeks ranked in top 10
7 total
2002 = 2 wks (peak 9)
2003 = 4 wks (peak 8 twice)
2007 = 1 wks (peak 8)

Indiana
Weeks ranked in top 10
27 total
2012 = 1 wks (peak 8)
2013 = 20 wks (peak 1, 9 times)
2016 = 1 wks (peak 10)
2017 = 5 wks (peak 5 twice)

[jesmu84]

The stats suggest this is a myth.  Or, it ended in when Knight was fired.

What stats?

Compare his rankings of recruiting classes

[Tugg Speedman]

This doesn't look like a myth to me. Lots of NBA paper in nine years.

http://www.btpowerhouse.com/2016/6/14/11909648/ranking-tom-creans-nine-indiana-hoosiers-basketball-recruiting-classes

So does MU

[AlumKCof93]

He has a legacy at Marquette.  At IU, he was a bridge from one guy to the next. 

[Tugg Speedman]

What stats?

Compare his rankings of recruiting classes

Go ahead, look forward to it.

[jesmu84]

Go ahead, look forward to it.

I'm telling you to.

You're the one that claimed "stats". What stats?

And if you're talking about recruiting and not developing, then it really needs to be class rankings and not NBA talent

[Tugg Speedman]

I'm telling you to.

You're the one that claimed "stats". What stats?

And if you're talking about recruiting and not developing, then it really needs to be class rankings and not NBA talent

Whatever he recruited the stats above say he produced amazingly similar records between the two schools.  So same guy, gets the same out of his kids, similar results = similar quality of recruits between the schools.

[Lennys Tap]

I understand your disdain, but in all fairness, every team ends up with a "diamond in the rough" every now and then. 

How many guys end up with a prop 48 "diamond in the rough" who can't be recruited by the big boys - who then becomes one of the top 30 players of all time? I only know of one.

[MU82]

Marquette under Crean did just as well, if not better, than Indiana under Crean.

Bobby's bullying ways led to a recruiting downturn at IU before he even left. Modern athletes said, "To hell with that; other guys can coach me up just as well, and I don't even have to get choked or kicked." Crean actually recruited at IU better than Bobby did his last few years. Crean also had more postseason success at IU over his last half-dozen years than Bobby did over his last half-dozen years.

Finally, to hold Wade against Crean is dopey. I mean, take away Vander and Buzz doesn't go S16-S16-E8. Take away Laettner and K doesn't win two national titles.

[Tugg Speedman]

Another set of amazingly similar results

Final season Kenpom ranking

Marquette (Kenpom started in 2002)
2002 =11
2003 = 15
2004 = 92
2005 = 100
2006 = 36
2007 = 38
Avg. 48.6

Indiana (excluded his first two years as they were rebuilding years)
2010 = 110
2011 = 82
2012 = 9
2013 = 3
2014 = 63
2015 = 48
2016 = 11
2017 = 47
Avg. 50

[warriorfred]

All I know is that I am glad he left MU for IU. 

[Golden Avalanche]

He has a legacy at Marquette.  At IU, he was a bridge from one guy to the next.

More accurately, he was a bridge from Indiana's lowest point as a program to regaining achievements.