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Author Topic: MLB 2017 Season  (Read 266231 times)

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: MLB 2017 Season
« Reply #350 on: June 22, 2017, 11:46:03 PM »
At some point do they actually 'buy' a reliever and try to dance this year?  Look, I give up no prospects but if they're still in first in 3-4 weeks.......

I've been wondering what the cutoff point is for buy or sell. Personally, I don't think you don't jeapordize the rebuild just for a chance at the postseason. They have a great young core.  Brewers could pull an Astros in a year it two.
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Blackhat

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Re: MLB 2017 Season
« Reply #351 on: June 23, 2017, 12:47:49 AM »
No mention of the juiced ball in MLB this year?    MLB on pace for 350 more homers in a season than ever before.   Pretty obvious spike.       


 

MU82

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Re: MLB 2017 Season
« Reply #352 on: June 23, 2017, 05:13:16 AM »
Not a rumor.
And overdue.

Talk about "how the mighty have fallen"!

He seems like a hard worker, though, and he could return better than ever.

Over the long term, however, I'm guessing the Cubs would be wise to trade him to an AL team. Obviously, his trade value is down now, but if he can return and do anything decent, the guy might fetch a prospect. He needs to be a DH.
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mu03eng

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Re: MLB 2017 Season
« Reply #353 on: June 23, 2017, 06:28:41 AM »
At some point do they actually 'buy' a reliever and try to dance this year?  Look, I give up no prospects but if they're still in first in 3-4 weeks.......

Prospects are just that prospects. I don't know the Brewer's farm system well enough, I'm sure there are several do not trades but I think prospects should be on the table this season. The Brewers need to go out and get a pitcher or two that can go longer than 5 or 6 innings which would reduce the workload on the pen or get some bullpen help. I think they can accomplish either with one or two buys at the deadline giving up a few prospects and then use the waiver wire after the deadline to pick up a few more.
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wadesworld

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Re: MLB 2017 Season
« Reply #354 on: June 23, 2017, 06:40:08 AM »
Brewers should be (and I trust Sterns is smart enough that he will be) in sell mode.
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reinko

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Re: MLB 2017 Season
« Reply #355 on: June 23, 2017, 07:51:28 AM »
Brewers should be (and I trust Sterns is smart enough that he will be) in sell mode.

Haven't been watching the Crew a lot lately, but who's @ the top of list to try to sell off, and who are the current ones to build around?

mu03eng

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Re: MLB 2017 Season
« Reply #356 on: June 23, 2017, 08:13:41 AM »
Haven't been watching the Crew a lot lately, but who's @ the top of list to try to sell off, and who are the current ones to build around?

It ain't Braun....his contract is an anchor at this point, he's going to be on the team until it expires.
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jficke13

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Re: MLB 2017 Season
« Reply #357 on: June 23, 2017, 08:21:07 AM »
Haven't been watching the Crew a lot lately, but who's @ the top of list to try to sell off, and who are the current ones to build around?

I'm a huge Brewers fan. I'm overjoyed that they're in 1st place in late June. That being said, their position is all about Milwaukee overperforming, and the Cubs WAY underperforming. The phrase of the 2nd half is going to be "regression to the mean" kids.

In a twisted way, the best case scenario is for the Cubs to get a little hair of the dog and shake this post WS hangover and start playing like the absolutely loaded team they are, overtake the Brewers by the deadline so the Brewers can feel free to sell off some pieces.

As a short effort at 8:20 a.m. here's a start:

Sell:
Braun -> LAD. The NL West is insane, and LA is one of about two places Braun will waive no-trade to go to. If the Brewers can get ANYTHING up to and including a sandwich for him, they should take it.

Garza -> There's a sucker born every minute. Hey, he hasn't pitched THAT badly. If there's a buyer out there, sell him for anything at all.

Thames -> Someone needing pop at 1B. Hey, sell high right? (although he's a ton of fun to watch, so I actually want him to stick around).

Shaw -> He's raking at 3B. Same as Thames, he's WAY outperforming his contract. The brewers have prospects to spare on the IF and Shaw is worth more as a piece than on the field. (On a human note, his newborn daughter is under the care of the saints at Children's, one of whom apparently specializes in her condition, so again, I don't want him to leave).

Untouchables:
Arcia
Chase Anderson (team friendly deal, club control through 2020ish?)
Josh Hader (practically still a prospect, but on the big club)
Knebel
Brinson

GGGG

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Re: MLB 2017 Season
« Reply #358 on: June 23, 2017, 08:30:19 AM »
The MLB trade deadline isn't until July 31.  If the Brewers are still in contention for the division, or even a WC place, they shouldn't sell.

jficke13

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Re: MLB 2017 Season
« Reply #359 on: June 23, 2017, 08:53:50 AM »
The MLB trade deadline isn't until July 31.  If the Brewers are still in contention for the division, or even a WC place, they shouldn't sell.

No WCs are going to be in play for teams west of the Rockies this year. The NL West has them more or less locked down. The Cubs are 8.5 back as LAD, ARI, and CO are all at least 19 games over .500.

There's a lot of baseball to be played between now and July 31, and the Brewers have none of the things that lend themselves to staying power, i.e. a thin rotation that doesn't go deep often and a bullpen full of hacks (Knebel excluded).

I hope I'm wrong. I don't think I will be.

GGGG

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Re: MLB 2017 Season
« Reply #360 on: June 23, 2017, 08:56:47 AM »
No WCs are going to be in play for teams west of the Rockies this year. The NL West has them more or less locked down. The Cubs are 8.5 back as LAD, ARI, and CO are all at least 19 games over .500.

There's a lot of baseball to be played between now and July 31, and the Brewers have none of the things that lend themselves to staying power, i.e. a thin rotation that doesn't go deep often and a bullpen full of hacks (Knebel excluded).

I hope I'm wrong. I don't think I will be.


I agree with you on all counts.  I have no illusions that the Brewers will make the playoffs.

I just am saying that if they are still in contention in a month, then they can't be sellers unless they get a real good offer.  (For Braun for instance.)

jficke13

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Re: MLB 2017 Season
« Reply #361 on: June 23, 2017, 09:00:36 AM »

I agree with you on all counts.  I have no illusions that the Brewers will make the playoffs.

I just am saying that if they are still in contention in a month, then they can't be sellers unless they get a real good offer.  (For Braun for instance.)

Well I agree with that as well.

This is an odd feeling... agreement on the internet.


wadesworld

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Re: MLB 2017 Season
« Reply #362 on: June 23, 2017, 09:29:30 AM »
I'm a huge Brewers fan. I'm overjoyed that they're in 1st place in late June. That being said, their position is all about Milwaukee overperforming, and the Cubs WAY underperforming. The phrase of the 2nd half is going to be "regression to the mean" kids.

In a twisted way, the best case scenario is for the Cubs to get a little hair of the dog and shake this post WS hangover and start playing like the absolutely loaded team they are, overtake the Brewers by the deadline so the Brewers can feel free to sell off some pieces.

As a short effort at 8:20 a.m. here's a start:

Sell:
Braun -> LAD. The NL West is insane, and LA is one of about two places Braun will waive no-trade to go to. If the Brewers can get ANYTHING up to and including a sandwich for him, they should take it.

Garza -> There's a sucker born every minute. Hey, he hasn't pitched THAT badly. If there's a buyer out there, sell him for anything at all.

Thames -> Someone needing pop at 1B. Hey, sell high right? (although he's a ton of fun to watch, so I actually want him to stick around).

Shaw -> He's raking at 3B. Same as Thames, he's WAY outperforming his contract. The brewers have prospects to spare on the IF and Shaw is worth more as a piece than on the field. (On a human note, his newborn daughter is under the care of the saints at Children's, one of whom apparently specializes in her condition, so again, I don't want him to leave).

Untouchables:
Arcia
Chase Anderson (team friendly deal, club control through 2020ish?)
Josh Hader (practically still a prospect, but on the big club)
Knebel
Brinson

Agreed with pretty much all of this.  Obviously if someone offers you something you can't pass up anybody can be traded, but reasonably the only guys I wouldn't touch that are on the MLB roster are Arcia, Hader, and Brinson.  I enjoy Shaw and Thames so I'd like to see them stay, but their value certainly isn't going to get any higher in the future.  The Brewers have had giant success trading away bullpen pitching at the deadline recently, and Knebel could be next.  Nobody will trade for Braun with his injuries, but I'd love to see it.  And Chase I'm not sure you get much more value at any point in the future than you do right now.  I'm still skeptical that he's a true top end starter, but he appears to be that right now...
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cheebs09

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Re: MLB 2017 Season
« Reply #363 on: June 23, 2017, 09:50:25 AM »
I don't know about dealing Shaw. I don't think the Brewers have any decent third basemen in the system. Same with first base. Granted, they could be acquired in trades, but it is a little more risky. Especially since Shaw and Thames are under control for a few years.

wadesworld

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Re: MLB 2017 Season
« Reply #364 on: June 23, 2017, 09:54:28 AM »
I don't know about dealing Shaw. I don't think the Brewers have any decent third basemen in the system. Same with first base. Granted, they could be acquired in trades, but it is a little more risky. Especially since Shaw and Thames are under control for a few years.

Very true, Shaw could easily move to 1B and play for the Brewers for a long time.
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mu03eng

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Re: MLB 2017 Season
« Reply #365 on: June 23, 2017, 10:00:44 AM »
Agreed with pretty much all of this.  Obviously if someone offers you something you can't pass up anybody can be traded, but reasonably the only guys I wouldn't touch that are on the MLB roster are Arcia, Hader, and Brinson.  I enjoy Shaw and Thames so I'd like to see them stay, but their value certainly isn't going to get any higher in the future.  The Brewers have had giant success trading away bullpen pitching at the deadline recently, and Knebel could be next.  Nobody will trade for Braun with his injuries, but I'd love to see it.  And Chase I'm not sure you get much more value at any point in the future than you do right now.  I'm still skeptical that he's a true top end starter, but he appears to be that right now...

I get the value argument for trading away assets but then you are assuming you are getting equal or greater value on the assets you get in return....and at some point all these new assets need to be returning that value all at the same time so you can be a contender at a minimum, and go win the whole f'in thing at maximum.

At what point is a bird in the hand worth more than two in the bush?
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MUBurrow

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Re: MLB 2017 Season
« Reply #366 on: June 23, 2017, 10:13:15 AM »
Note on Thames is that his deal is looking rock solid right now, so he shouldn't just be sold off for spare parts. Granted, he'll probably never have a stretch like the first month and a half of this season again, but he's shown he can be a solid source of power without anchoring BA and playing good 1B. He's experienced and toolsy enough that he should outperform the next couple years of that deal, so I would hang onto him if they don't get a prospect back that's in the tail end of the top 100. Shaw is in a similar spot with all that team control.

jficke13

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Re: MLB 2017 Season
« Reply #367 on: June 23, 2017, 10:17:28 AM »
I get the value argument for trading away assets but then you are assuming you are getting equal or greater value on the assets you get in return....and at some point all these new assets need to be returning that value all at the same time so you can be a contender at a minimum, and go win the whole f'in thing at maximum.

At what point is a bird in the hand worth more than two in the bush?

The problem with Milwaukee is that everyone knows their path. They did it a few years ago and it takes hitting on a handful of stud prospects and getting them to the show and All-Star caliber performances *all at the same time* and then adding one or two cheap/veteran/roll pieces via free agency, and lastly, when all that's going right, sell out with a trade to "go for it."

The more shots at stud prospects coming together the better. A good/outproducing his contract Shaw and Thames is not the same as having 6 shots at another Braun/Fielder/Gallardo combo.

As much as it sucks, I just don't see any other path to post-season contention for a team like the Brewers.

mu03eng

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Re: MLB 2017 Season
« Reply #368 on: June 23, 2017, 10:57:55 AM »
The problem with Milwaukee is that everyone knows their path. They did it a few years ago and it takes hitting on a handful of stud prospects and getting them to the show and All-Star caliber performances *all at the same time* and then adding one or two cheap/veteran/roll pieces via free agency, and lastly, when all that's going right, sell out with a trade to "go for it."

The more shots at stud prospects coming together the better. A good/outproducing his contract Shaw and Thames is not the same as having 6 shots at another Braun/Fielder/Gallardo combo.

As much as it sucks, I just don't see any other path to post-season contention for a team like the Brewers.

I don't really disagree, but where do you see the Brewers ability to grow their farm internally. They can generate multi shots at the combo you describe by drafting and developing as well. Maybe it's a little bit of having cake and eating it too, but they don't have to trade off known entities for flyers on prospects if they can grow those prospects internally or by grabbing underdeveloped cast offs from other teams.
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TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: MLB 2017 Season
« Reply #369 on: June 23, 2017, 02:37:40 PM »
If expansion actually happens, do they expand the playoffs?
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MU82

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Re: MLB 2017 Season
« Reply #370 on: June 23, 2017, 02:50:33 PM »
I'm trying to remember when exactly it became common for fans of a baseball team to sell off decent players and intentionally tank a season. Seriously. It's been a couple decades at least, it seems, but I don't remember when.

I remember when the White Sox did it in the '90s and most fans were outraged. So it's at least since then.

It's a weird thing. In basketball, a team that tanks is rewarded with a high draft pick who could start right away; plus, there is a salary cap. Same with football, although the cap is more strict - kind of like hockey. So it makes sense that a team in those sports can fix cap problems and position themselves for high draft picks who might have an impact the following season.

In baseball, there is no salary cap. No owner "needs" to dump salary. And draft picks, even the highest-rated ones, have a high rate of failure. Even the best ones usually take several years to reach the majors.

And yet Brewers fans seem to be rooting that their first-place team - a team ahead of the "Flubs" the fans purport to hate - go into the tank in June.

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buckchuckler

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Re: MLB 2017 Season
« Reply #371 on: June 23, 2017, 04:13:25 PM »
If expansion actually happens, do they expand the playoffs?

Has there been any credible talks around expansion?  I know there is the Montreal deal, but not sure that has any real legs.

GB Warrior

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Re: MLB 2017 Season
« Reply #372 on: June 23, 2017, 04:17:35 PM »
I'm trying to remember when exactly it became common for fans of a baseball team to sell off decent players and intentionally tank a season. Seriously. It's been a couple decades at least, it seems, but I don't remember when.

I remember when the White Sox did it in the '90s and most fans were outraged. So it's at least since then.

It's a weird thing. In basketball, a team that tanks is rewarded with a high draft pick who could start right away; plus, there is a salary cap. Same with football, although the cap is more strict - kind of like hockey. So it makes sense that a team in those sports can fix cap problems and position themselves for high draft picks who might have an impact the following season.

In baseball, there is no salary cap. No owner "needs" to dump salary. And draft picks, even the highest-rated ones, have a high rate of failure. Even the best ones usually take several years to reach the majors.

And yet Brewers fans seem to be rooting that their first-place team - a team ahead of the "Flubs" the fans purport to hate - go into the tank in June.

I think most good fans  (moi) aren't hoping to tank, but we just don't want to lose the long view. Even Stearns has to be surprised it's come together this fast, and we all know Antanasio has an itchy trigger finger for playoff runs.

This team isn't ready for the big time, so i just don't want to sell off future assets until we have to. I will be very happy if we sit out the trade deadline.

#UnleashSean

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Re: MLB 2017 Season
« Reply #373 on: June 23, 2017, 06:48:42 PM »


And yet Brewers fans seem to be rooting that their first-place team - a team ahead of the "Flubs" the fans purport to hate - go into the tank in June.

Do you want a single playoff run for one year where your going to get erased by the NL west in the divisional series? Or would you like long success over a few years? Cause we can have a repeat of the Brewers last playoff run.

MU82

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Re: MLB 2017 Season
« Reply #374 on: June 23, 2017, 07:47:24 PM »
Do you want a single playoff run for one year where your going to get erased by the NL west in the divisional series? Or would you like long success over a few years? Cause we can have a repeat of the Brewers last playoff run.

It doesn't have to be mutually exclusive.

I can understand why (as GB Warrior said in the comment just above yours), many Brewers fans hope management doesn't trade prospects for a long-shot run at a title. But I don't really understand why many Brewers fans are hoping a team in the middle of a pennant race act as if it's in last place -- and dump good, productive major-leaguers in an effort to chase some hoped-for title next decade that might never materialize.
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