MLB 2017 Season

[Lennys Tap]

It was joke. Good lord...

I know, but you knew it was the kind of cheap shot that would bring a Chico response - I mean, I used to do that on a very regular basis, so I'm familiar with how the game is played. We already have multiple locked threads - I was hoping our MLB 2017 wouldn't drift in that direction.

[buckchuckler]

It was joke. Good lord...

Hmm, poorly timed and not funny.  Maybe work on your material.  Comedy is timing.

[rocket surgeon]

Hmm, poorly timed and not funny.  Maybe work on your material.  Comedy is timing.

yeah, like another self-imposed sabbatical-seems like you came back almost worse off...yet. 

 there are many figure heads out there that i may not like, but do not classify "bad people".  i just disagree with their policies.  i never wish them dead as that ain't my department.  let's take my my man B. H. O.  God knows i had to take a lot of therapy the previous 8 years, much as ,many of you should be doing for yourselves right now over DT and that chicos derangement thingy, but i digress.  i never wished for BHO to be dead nor his wife, etc etc.  not even harvey pervenstein-let their legacies speak for themselves, but i'm wondering if i'd turn down a round of golf with the bamster or not.  secret service might have a harder time though  

any of the kim losers of north korea, that loser in syria are a couple that are long over due for a "nap" a long long nap as we are talking some serious human rights issues here

[B. McBannerson]

#allstartingpitchersmatter

Why yes, and the relievers, too.

[B. McBannerson]

He was flying a new plane,he got it in October.  There are 23 of these planes in existence, and 3 have now crashed. 

Very sad.

One crashed last year and Icon's chief engineer was piloting.  NTSB determined it to be pilot error as he made sharp turn down a canyon and boxed him in. 

This plane has been called a jet ski with wings.  Halladay loved it. Tweeted about it all the time.  Halladay's wife just last month said she was against him buying the plane, strongly against.  Then he took her up in it and she changed her mind.  Said she now got it.  He died loving what he was doing.

Video of her last month.  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5060329/Halladay-s-wife-against-flying-haunting-video.html

Read this article a few years ago about stalling in an A5 and its performance characteristics were so good.  https://www.wired.com/2015/09/like-flyand-stallin-icon-a5-plane/


RIP.  Tremendous pitcher, 1st ballot. 

[Spotcheck Billy]

We already have multiple locked threads - I was hoping our MLB 2017 wouldn't drift in that direction.

well it is almost time for a 2018 MLB thread anyway...

[4everwarriors]

I believe there is a God.

LXXXII’s already signed off on dat, hey?

[MU82]

LXXXII’s already signed off on dat, hey?

That's Mr. LXXXII to you, pal!

[CTWarrior]

RIP.  Tremendous pitcher, 1st ballot.

While I agree he is a tremendous pitcher, he is a borderline HOF candidate and would have been one of those guys who had to hang around on the ballot for a few years.  His closest career comps are a bunch of great pitchers who are borderline guys, only one of whom got in, though Greinke and Verlander are building their resumes and have good shots of getting in.  Basic issue is counting stats (barely 200 wins).  I think he would have hung around the ballot for a few years and then gotten in.  I think the crowd that only vote for the Willie Mays and Greg Maddux type guys on the first ballot would have passed on Halladay in year 1.  This may actually help his case for sooner enshrinement, although I wonder what the sentiment will be like when he is eligible.  I'd vote for him.

1.Zack Greinke (922.4)
2.Dwight Gooden (920.2)
3.Justin Verlander (909.8)
4.Ron Guidry (898.0)
5.Jimmy Key (894.1)
6.Dazzy Vance (890.3) *
7.Roy Oswalt (887.5)
8.Bret Saberhagen (883.4)
9.Tim Hudson (882.5)
10.Lon Warneke (880.7)

[B. McBannerson]

While I agree he is a tremendous pitcher, he is a borderline HOF candidate and would have been one of those guys who had to hang around on the ballot for a few years.  His closest career comps are a bunch of great pitchers who are borderline guys, only one of whom got in, though Greinke and Verlander are building their resumes and have good shots of getting in.  Basic issue is counting stats (barely 200 wins).  I think he would have hung around the ballot for a few years and then gotten in.  I think the crowd that only vote for the Willie Mays and Greg Maddux type guys on the first ballot would have passed on Halladay in year 1.  This may actually help his case for sooner enshrinement, although I wonder what the sentiment will be like when he is eligible.  I'd vote for him.

1.Zack Greinke (922.4)
2.Dwight Gooden (920.2)
3.Justin Verlander (909.8)
4.Ron Guidry (898.0)
5.Jimmy Key (894.1)
6.Dazzy Vance (890.3) *
7.Roy Oswalt (887.5)
8.Bret Saberhagen (883.4)
9.Tim Hudson (882.5)
10.Lon Warneke (880.7)

The last horse, his 65 complete games is 27 more than the current active leader.  Pitchers aren't used like him anymore.  During his 10+ years in baseball vs all other pitchers of his era:

2nd in ERA
1st in Complete Games
1st in SO/BB
1st in WAR
2nd in IP

87 games over .500 when he started.  When anyone else started on his teams, 24 games BELOW .500

Since 2009, who leads MLB in complete games?  Still Roy Halladay, even though he's been out since 2013.

Only pitcher in MLB history to have four seasons with 200+ strikeouts and fewer than 40 walks.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2017/11/08/this-opinion-roy-halladay-hall-famer/JqO3xRINMNs8lbW9rKOHFI/story.html

[CTWarrior]

Don't disagree Banny, just saying he's the type of guy that traditionally has to wait.

[MerrittsMustache]

The Baseball HOF, much more than any other, has a stats-driven definition of "greatness." In other words, the voters tend to value "pretty good for a long time" over "great for a 6-8 year stretch."

Roy Halladay had a 10-season stretch where he had an ERA under 3.00, won nearly 70% of his games and threw 63 complete games, including 18 shutouts. He was among the best pitchers in the game for a decade. That's a no-doubt HOFer.

Compare that stretch to a HOFer like Bert Blyleven who never won a Cy Young, made only 2 ASGs in 22 seasons and was basically an innings-eater for a LONG time. Was there ever a stretch where Blyleven was one of the best, most dominant pitchers in the game? No, but he was a productive pitcher who hung around long to get to 287 wins and that got him in.

In terms of position players, Craig Biggio hung around long enough to get to 3,000 hits, despite having an average WAR of 0.75 during his final 6 seasons. There was never an extended stretch where he was among the best players in the game. He was a pretty good player for a long time and that got him into the HOF. Had he retired 1 season sooner and not gotten to 3,000 hits, he's likely on the outside.

[MU82]

Just found out I'll still have a Hall vote this year. I'm glad about that because Jim Thome is one of the all-time great guys in sports and he is very deserving of enshrinement, so I wanted a chance to vote for him.

[4everwarriors]

Yeah butt, he likely leans right, ai na?

[Lennys Tap]

Hmm, poorly timed and not funny.  Maybe work on your material.  Comedy is timing.

+1. Tragedy + time = comedy. Eliminate time and it's  big swing and a miss.

[buckchuckler]

Just found out I'll still have a Hall vote this year. I'm glad about that because Jim Thome is one of the all-time great guys in sports and he is very deserving of enshrinement, so I wanted a chance to vote for him.

That is great.  One of my all time favorites.  Even when he was with Cleveland and routinely destroying the Sox I loved him as a player and was thrilled when the Sox traded for him.

I was lucky enough to be at the game in which he hit number 500.  He hit in extras, and most of the crowd had left after his AB in the 8th.  It was pretty fantastic.   

[DegenerateDish]

Love this Sox trade for Vieira.

[buckchuckler]

Love this Sox trade for Vieira.

They are making great use of their international pool. 

[Vander Blue Man Group]

The Cardinals once again get a competitive balance pick at #39.  Despite the fact that they generated $310 million in revenue in 2016, the 7th highest amount in baseball.  The 2017 picks they lost due to hacking the Astros were 56 and 75.

What a joke. 

[buckchuckler]

I don't believe the teams that receive the competitive balance picks changes, just the order in which they pick.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

I don't believe the teams that receive the competitive balance picks changes, just the order in which they pick.

My point is the Cardinals don't deserve one, and if anything, they should have also lost that pick as part of the hacking punishment.

[buckchuckler]

My point is the Cardinals don't deserve one, and if anything, they should have also lost that pick as part of the hacking punishment.

Agree on the first.   Watch them use the pick in a trade for Stanton...

I believe they would have lost the pick last year, but they had already lost it to sign a free agent with draft pick compensation attached.  The picks they lost were their first 2 I believe. 

[buckchuckler]

Here are your HOF candidates for this year:
Barry Bonds
Chris Carpenter
Roger Clemens
Johnny Damon
Vladimir Guerrero
Livan Hernandez
Trevor Hoffman
Orlando Hudson
Aubrey Huff
Jason Isringhausen
Andruw Jones
Chipper Jones
Jeff Kent
Carlos Lee
Brad Lidge
Edgar Martinez
Hideki Matsui
Fred McGriff
Kevin Millwood
Jamie Moyer
Mike Mussina
Manny Ramirez
Scott Rolen
Johan Santana
Curt Schilling
Gary Sheffield
Sammy Sosa
Jim Thome
Omar Vizquel
Billy Wagner
Larry Walker
Kerry Wood
Carlos Zambrano

If I were voting (check it out 82, I'll help you out!)

Vlad, Hoffman, Chipper, Kent, Edgar, Mussina, Rolen, Thome, Vizquel.

I would have a 10th... but I have to think about it more.  Andruw Jones, McGriff, Walker, Wagner and Johan would all get consideration. 

... Probably Andruw Jones.  He fell off quickly but boy was he great at his peak.   

[#UnleashSean]

wood and zambrano? Really?

[CTWarrior]

Here are your HOF candidates for this year:
Barry Bonds
Chris Carpenter
Roger Clemens
Johnny Damon
Vladimir Guerrero
Livan Hernandez
Trevor Hoffman
Orlando Hudson
Aubrey Huff
Jason Isringhausen
Andruw Jones
Chipper Jones
Jeff Kent
Carlos Lee
Brad Lidge
Edgar Martinez
Hideki Matsui
Fred McGriff
Kevin Millwood
Jamie Moyer
Mike Mussina
Manny Ramirez
Scott Rolen
Johan Santana
Curt Schilling
Gary Sheffield
Sammy Sosa
Jim Thome
Omar Vizquel
Billy Wagner
Larry Walker
Kerry Wood
Carlos Zambrano

If I were voting (check it out 82, I'll help you out!)

Vlad, Hoffman, Chipper, Kent, Edgar, Mussina, Rolen, Thome, Vizquel.

I would have a 10th... but I have to think about it more.  Andruw Jones, McGriff, Walker, Wagner and Johan would all get consideration. 

... Probably Andruw Jones.  He fell off quickly but boy was he great at his peak.   

My ballot is:

Vladimir Guerrero
Chipper Jones
Edgar Martinez
Fred McGriff
Mike Mussina
Curt Schilling
Jim Thome


Jeff Kent and Trevor Hoffman if you are so inclined.  I don't like closers because they don't do much to your W/L record.  Mariano Rivera is the greatest closer ever and the Yankees don't miss him at all.  I think Vizquel wildly overrated with the glove and thus not deserving.  Manny, Clemens, Bonds, Sosa all deserving if you feel like ignoring steroids.  Bonds and Clemens are the most interesting to me, because I think they would have been HOFers without the juice, Bonds definitely, Clemens less definitely but most likely.
 
Schilling a jerk, but a deserving jerk.  Mussina criminally underrated in my book, as is Edgar.