Should Marquette leave the Big East?

[GGGG]

We probably agree more than we disagree.  The reality is that there is an acceleration of change going on.  Everything has changed, MU, BE, FOX, UCON, WV, etc. 

What probably set me off was the St. John's game in the city.  When we go east;  Seton Hall, Georgetown, St. John's, Providence, Vilanova we are playing in a different world, a different game. 

Unfortunately I  don't have great expectations about the BE tournament, and that is very unfortunate.

I am not saying that we are not competitive, I am saying that we may not be competitive in this conference in the east which is 5 games plus the tournament.  Perhaps we are competitive in Omaha, Milwaukee, Chicago and Indianapolis. 

Therefore, I question either the conference or the basketball  strategy.  Prove me wrong, I  would be very happy to be wrong. 

The Big East Conference is responsible for picking the referees for each conference game.  I doubt you will see one set of referees who predominantly are assigned to the east coast and another set that are primarily assigned to the midwest.  You are not really on solid ground here.

[vogue65]

Are you talking basketball or overall? From a basketball perspective, it clearly isn't hurting it. On the whole, the best way to attract quality students through the basketball program is simply having success. That's why we saw such a boom in applications after 2003. There is no other comparable conference that would give us the exposure potential we have here.

Yes. We have rivalries with Xavier, Butler, and Creighton. While we have lost ND on the schedule, that was unavoidable and their choice. Leaving the Big East would not change that.

You don't pick a league based on officiating, you adjust your recruiting and play style to that. That's why we have 3 players coming in that are 6'9"+ coming in next year.

Let's not forget, officiating can change from half-to-half in game. The Duke/Wisconsin championship game largely turned on Duke's ability to adjust to the referees while Wisconsin did not. When push comes to shove in March, it's not the referees you have dealt with all year that will determine your success, but your ability to adjust to the referees you are assigned. Getting the highest caliber of referee will be easiest within the construct of a strong conference. There is no stronger conference that would permit us admission, so if refereeing is the argument, this is the only conference to be in.

Who knows? Maybe they do, maybe they don't, but we're locked in for years to come. The Big East will have the chance to explore options and pursue lucrative contracts when that option presents itself. Regardless, our basketball-only conference pays more than AAC teams get for all sports, and far more than any other non-football league.

The notion of going independent or joining another league are simply ludicrous. Marquette does not have the fanbase of a Notre Dame nor the regional power of a large state school. We would struggle to put together a schedule that came close to being as competitive as what we have now. We would need to fill 18 spots with top-100 opponents. Good luck with that. And any other league would be a massive step down.

In the past 3-1/2 years, the Big East has established itself as one of the best conferences in the country. It is the only league that garners respect on par with the big football conferences. There is no easier route to success than by climbing the ranks in this conference. Why would we go to the A-10, the MVC, or the Horizon when we've seen Xavier, Creighton, and Butler flee from there to get where we are today and flourish in the process? Why would we go independent when there are literally no current independent teams in the entire sport and haven't been since NJIT in 2015?

How is this even a question? I think the only way we should consider this is if we "leave" the "Big East" and take Villanova, Georgetown, Providence, Butler, Xavier, Creighton, St. John's, and Seton Hall with us, while also taking the television contract rights, the Big East name, and the rights to MSG.

Have to run, but what is our winning percentage in MSG or in the east for that matter?  Are we talking $$$ or basketball?

[warriorchick]

The answer is:  No.

I can't believe this ridiculous topic has run for 5 pages.

[brewcity77]

Have to run, but what is our winning percentage in MSG or in the east for that matter?  Are we talking $$$ or basketball?

Our winning percentage at Madison Square Garden since joining the Big East is 0.429 (12-16). That is hampered by our current 4 game MSG losing streak (Xavier in the BET, Michigan and Pitt in the 2K Classic, St. John's last month). We are also 2-0 at Carnasecca in that time period.

In the east? I'm not sure what you mean by that. Like road games at Providence, Georgetown, Villanova? I'm sure we're no worse than most high-major teams in road games wherever they are played. Our total league record is 119-89. In that time, we have only two losing seasons (the last two) and have had winning records in 7 of 11 completed seasons.

I'm talking both. We won't make more money by leaving the Big East. We won't play better basketball by leaving the Big East. Leaving this league to improve our station would be the equivalent to a marathoner trying to become a better runner by cutting off both his legs at the hip.

[mu03eng]

The answer is:  No.

I can't believe this ridiculous topic has run for 5 pages.

I can't believe Vogue hasn't found a way to blame Boeing for Marquette's performance in MSG yet.

[Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup]

I am not saying that we are not competitive, I am saying that we may not be competitive in this conference in the east which is 5 games plus the tournament.  Perhaps we are competitive in Omaha, Milwaukee, Chicago and Indianapolis. 

OK, fine. I'll bite. Your hypothesis is not just off-base, it is objectively wrong.

This is Marquette's away (and neutral-site) conference record against the five current "I-95" Big East schools since joining the Big East.

@ Georgetown: 2-9
@ Providence: 5-3
@ Seton Hall: 8-3
@ St. John's: 8-3
@Villanova: 3-11 (0-5 since Conference Reformation. No shame in losing to the #1 team in the league in their own gym)
Current BE Subtotal: 26-29 (.472)

Just for good measure, I'll also throw in MU's away/neutral record against departed Big East members Syracuse, Rutgers, UConn, Pitt, and West Virginia, each of whom is arguably an "Eastern" team. I'll even leave out South Florida...just to help YOUR argument (MU went 3-1 at USF as Big East member).

@Connecticut: 4-1
@Pitt: 2-5
@Rutgers: 2-1
@Syracuse: 1-4 (Inc. 2 NCAA Tournament games in Cleveland and Washington)
@West Virginia: 2-3
Ex-BE Subtotal: 11-14 (.440)
BE East Coast Total: 37-43 (.463)


Now, compare that to MU's away/neutral Big East record against "Midwestern" Big East teams.

@Butler: 0-4
@Cincinnati:2-2
@Creighton: 2-2
@DePaul: 6-3
@Louisville: 1-7
@Notre Dame: 3-5
@Xavier: 0-3
BE Midwest Total: 14-26 (.350)


In short, in away/neutral Big East games against "East Coast" opposition, MU actually plays BETTER (.472 vs. current members, .440 vs. Ex-Members, .463 total) than it does against "Midwestern" Big East teams (.350 vs. Current and former members).

Thus, if anything, MU "may be competitive out east, but when they get to cities like Indianapolis and Cincinnati and Louisville, they are in a different world."

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Lol, well done Chiclets.

[brewcity77]

Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup right now:

[mikekinsellaMVP]

The answer is:  No.

I can't believe this ridiculous topic has run for 5 pages.

And it was inspired by watching a Syracuse game.  The same Syracuse team that is 0-2 against the bottom half of the Big East this year, including a 33-point bludgeoning by the Johnnies.

So he did get the "no comparison" part right in a sense.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Don't be fooled. This thread has nothing to do with leaving the Big East. This is simply another thread claiming that the BOT has issued some mandate that we can no longer recruit a certain kind of player and can only go after choir boys with good grades. There is some truth to this. Marquette would no longer allow Todd Mayo to come here. I don't think that's a bad thing. But our academic standards are no different than other Big East institution. We lack physicality inside this year. Wojo recognizes this and that's why Cain, John, and Eke are on their way next season. It has nothing to do with these made up shackles that the BOT has supposedly put on recruiting.

[mu03eng]

Don't be fooled. This thread has nothing to do with leaving the Big East. This is simply another thread claiming that the BOT has issued some mandate that we can no longer recruit a certain kind of player and can only go after choir boys with good grades. There is some truth to this. Marquette would no longer allow Todd Mayo to come here. I don't think that's a bad thing. But our academic standards are no different than other Big East institution. We lack physicality inside this year. Wojo recognizes this and that's why Cain, John, and Eke are on their way next season. It has nothing to do with this made shackles that the BOT has supposedly put on recruiting.

But...but....but I read it on the other board with #donedeal telling me himself.

[mu-rara]

Why not?
With a BOT like we have we are delusional to think we can play with the big boys.
The other night I  watched Syracuse play Louisville and W.V. play Kansas and there was NO COMPARISON with what I  see with us or even with the so-called Big East.
There is no shame in being with your own kind, the A-10 or conference USA might be where we belong. 
A little history, the BOT forced Al McGuire and Buzz out, they think Marquette is Bucknell, Princeton or Northwestern.  We will never be Duke or even Duke lite. 
Why not play Fordham or St. Bonaventure if the BOT wants to limit recruits to that profile of student athlete?
Villanova plays Division II football, they don't try and play ND, they know their place. 
When Marquette played big time basketball was then, this is now.
We don't need a new coach, we need a new BOT or a different league.

This is the kind of idiocy that keeps me from frequenting this board anymore.  Doesn't surprise me coming from this poster.

[#UnleashSean]

What is it with scoop and giving dumb threads the most life?

[4everwarriors]

What? Mayo was at da X game, hey?

[MU82]

You are probably right, thinking outside box can be very painful.  For example, while I  hate on ND, must say that they crafted some hell of a deal.  Their unique  TV deal, and a place within a conference for basketball as a "part time" member.

The future may be pay for view and a return of the independent.  The future may already be upon us.

In my job I was always thinking down the road 20 or 30 years, that is why this thread causes so much angst for some.

No pain or angst for me. Not one owie. Just wondering what's rattlin' around in that head of yours. Still haven't figured it out.

[vogue65]

OK, fine. I'll bite. Your hypothesis is not just off-base, it is objectively wrong.

This is Marquette's away (and neutral-site) conference record against the five current "I-95" Big East schools since joining the Big East.

@ Georgetown: 2-9
@ Providence: 5-3
@ Seton Hall: 8-3
@ St. John's: 8-3
@Villanova: 3-11 (0-5 since Conference Reformation. No shame in losing to the #1 team in the league in their own gym)
Current BE Subtotal: 26-29 (.472)

Just for good measure, I'll also throw in MU's away/neutral record against departed Big East members Syracuse, Rutgers, UConn, Pitt, and West Virginia, each of whom is arguably an "Eastern" team. I'll even leave out South Florida...just to help YOUR argument (MU went 3-1 at USF as Big East member).

@Connecticut: 4-1
@Pitt: 2-5
@Rutgers: 2-1
@Syracuse: 1-4 (Inc. 2 NCAA Tournament games in Cleveland and Washington)
@West Virginia: 2-3
Ex-BE Subtotal: 11-14 (.440)
BE East Coast Total: 37-43 (.463)


Now, compare that to MU's away/neutral Big East record against "Midwestern" Big East teams.

@Butler: 0-4
@Cincinnati:2-2
@Creighton: 2-2
@DePaul: 6-3
@Louisville: 1-7
@Notre Dame: 3-5
@Xavier: 0-3
BE Midwest Total: 14-26 (.350)


In short, in away/neutral Big East games against "East Coast" opposition, MU actually plays BETTER (.472 vs. current members, .440 vs. Ex-Members, .463 total) than it does against "Midwestern" Big East teams (.350 vs. Current and former members).

Thus, if anything, MU "may be competitive out east, but when they get to cities like Indianapolis and Cincinnati and Louisville, they are in a different world."

Please redo your analysis and exclude WV, ND, Louisville, and Cincinnati, let's deal with the current world.  I'm serious, please make a contribution and don't massage the numbers.  What does the picture look like, plain and simple, the east-coast 5 vs. the mid-west 5.

Seems to me, without analysis, that when we play on the coast we are not competitive, is it my imagination or bias?

[tower912]

It is your imagination .

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Please redo your analysis and exclude WV, ND, Louisville, and Cincinnati, let's deal with the current world.  I'm serious, please make a contribution and don't massage the numbers.  What does the picture look like, plain and simple, the east-coast 5 vs. the mid-west 5.

Seems to me, without analysis, that when we play on the coast we are not competitive, is it my imagination or bias?

Did you read his first paragraph? We are 26-29 on the road at the current East Coast 5. We are 8-12 on the road at the current Midwest 4.

You have a vivid imagination.

[Newsdreams]

Don't be fooled. This thread has nothing to do with leaving the Big East. This is simply another thread claiming that the BOT has issued some mandate that we can no longer recruit a certain kind of player and can only go after choir boys with good grades. There is some truth to this. Marquette would no longer allow Todd Mayo to come here. I don't think that's a bad thing. But our academic standards are no different than other Big East institution. We lack physicality inside this year. Wojo recognizes this and that's why Cain, John, and Eke are on their way next season. It has nothing to do with these made up shackles that the BOT has supposedly put on recruiting.

We are concentrating in recruits with good necks.

[Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup]

Please redo your analysis and exclude WV, ND, Louisville, and Cincinnati, let's deal with the current world.  I'm serious, please make a contribution and don't massage the numbers.  What does the picture look like, plain and simple, the east-coast 5 vs. the mid-west 5.

Seems to me, without analysis, that when we play on the coast we are not competitive, is it my imagination or bias?

The idea that Marquette plays worse on the East Coast is wholly without merit, or statistical support, and exists only in your own imagination.  This is Marquette's away (and neutral-site) conference record against the five current "I-95" Big East schools since joining the Big East.

@ Georgetown: 2-9
@ Providence: 5-3
@ Seton Hall: 8-3
@ St. John's: 8-3
@Villanova: 3-11 (0-5 since Conference Reformation. No shame in losing to the #1 team in the league in their own gym)
Current BE East Coast Subtotal: 26-29 (.472)

Now, compare that to MU's away/neutral Big East record against the four other current "Midwestern" Big East teams.

@Butler: 0-4
@Creighton: 2-2
@DePaul: 6-3
@Xavier: 0-3
Current BE Midwest Total: 8-10 (.444)

But I'm glad to hear that you apparently survived the Bowling Green Massacre.

[vogue65]

The idea that Marquette plays worse on the East Coast is wholly without merit, or statistical support, and exists only in your own imagination.  This is Marquette's away (and neutral-site) conference record against the five current "I-95" Big East schools since joining the Big East.

@ Georgetown: 2-9
@ Providence: 5-3
@ Seton Hall: 8-3
@ St. John's: 8-3
@Villanova: 3-11 (0-5 since Conference Reformation. No shame in losing to the #1 team in the league in their own gym)
Current BE East Coast Subtotal: 26-29 (.472)

Now, compare that to MU's away/neutral Big East record against the four other current "Midwestern" Big East teams.

@Butler: 0-4
@Creighton: 2-2
@DePaul: 6-3
@Xavier: 0-3
Current BE Midwest Total: 8-10 (.444)

But I'm glad to hear that you apparently survived the Bowling Green Massacre.

Thank you, looks like we should stay in the Big East and win the BE tournament this year.

[JoeTheNonJesuit]

Mods, do Vogue and the NonJesuit post from the same computer?

The suggestion that we are the  same person deeply offends me. In real life we have been said to be sidekicks, but I actually know how to use a computer and you folks should be impressed by the near miracle that has allowed Vogue to use a tablet to post here. He was even able to pull the homer radio broadcast of the Xavier game up on his tablet while the prior game was finishing up on TV this past Saturday. He had his official sweatshirt on but no Pom poms.

[vogue65]

I can't believe Vogue hasn't found a way to blame Boeing for Marquette's performance in MSG yet.

I'm working on it, trying to fit jet lag into the metrics, and Joe is correct, I don't know how to use teal.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

We are concentrating in recruits with good necks.

I thought the BOT prohibited MU from recruiting anyone with a neck size over a certain diameter?

[JoeTheNonJesuit]

And it was inspired by watching a Syracuse game.  The same Syracuse team that is 0-2 against the bottom half of the Big East this year, including a 33-point bludgeoning by the Johnnies.

So he did get the "no comparison" part right in a sense.

Orange just beat Blue Devils. Vogue65 rules!