Greatest coaches in all of sports

[wadesworld]

The question of whether Bill Belichick is the greats coach in sports history has been coming up. He could be. Just off the top of my head and people from only in my lifetime (so of course people like John Wooden or Red Auerbach would be on the list but they were before my time) I think the list would include Phil Jackson, Gregg Popovich, Marv Dunphy, Coach K, Geno Auriemma, Joe Torre, and Nick Saban. Who am I missing?

[brandx]

The question of whether Bill Belichick is the greats coach in sports history has been coming up. He could be. Just off the top of my head and people from only in my lifetime (so of course people like John Wooden or Red Auerbach would be on the list but they were before my time) I think the list would include Phil Jackson, Gregg Popovich, Marv Dunphy, Coach K, Geno Auriemma, Joe Torre, and Nick Saban. Who am I missing?

Interesting topic, Wades.

I would agree with all of the college coaches There are others like Calipari and Pitino who have won everywhere (if rules aren't important in the discussion, that is).

Torre? I disagree. Sure, he won with the Yankees who spent more than any other team. But in his 1st 15 years of non-Yankee managing, he was under .500 for 10 of those years. He won in NY because he had the best players.

Pops and Auerbach? Absolutely the two greatest NBA coaches ever.

Jackson? You and I as co-coaches could have won some of his titles. How hard is it to win with MJ and Pippen or Shaq and Kobe? If he was coach of the Knicks team that HE has assembled, people would be calling for his head.

Belichick? Of course - but more for the move he makes. Sure he has the greatest QB ever, but he makes moves he needs to make every year. I have absolutely no doubt that if he was running things in GB, he would have multiple titles there as well. TT's negligence this year, especially, bordered on Chicago Bear-style incompetence. He, rather than MM has cost GB numerous titles. But Belichick makes the moves that TT is afraid to make and I give him more credit for that than the actual coaching.

[Tugg Speedman]

No doubt he is in the team picture of GOATs but to stand alone, he needs to win without Brady.

[GB Warrior]

Crean sucks

[MU82]

Well, I hate Bobby Knight as much as or more than any coach in any sport ever, but he probably belongs on a greatest-ever list.

Probably even more deserving (in addition to obvious choices mentioned by others) ...

Vince Lombardi, Don Shula, Paul Brown, Scotty Bowman, Toe Blake, Punch Imlach, Glen Sather, Pat Riley, Miller Huggins, Joe McCarthy, Casey Stengel, Walter Alston, Knute Rockne, Frank Leahy, Bud Wilkinson, Dean Smith.

[wadesworld]

Interesting topic, Wades.

I would agree with all of the college coaches There are others like Calipari and Pitino who have won everywhere (if rules aren't important in the discussion, that is).

Torre? I disagree. Sure, he won with the Yankees who spent more than any other team. But in his 1st 15 years of non-Yankee managing, he was under .500 for 10 of those years. He won in NY because he had the best players.

Pops and Auerbach? Absolutely the two greatest NBA coaches ever.

Jackson? You and I as co-coaches could have won some of his titles. How hard is it to win with MJ and Pippen or Shaq and Kobe? If he was coach of the Knicks team that HE has assembled, people would be calling for his head.

Belichick? Of course - but more for the move he makes. Sure he has the greatest QB ever, but he makes moves he needs to make every year. I have absolutely no doubt that if he was running things in GB, he would have multiple titles there as well. TT's negligence this year, especially, bordered on Chicago Bear-style incompetence. He, rather than MM has cost GB numerous titles. But Belichick makes the moves that TT is afraid to make and I give him more credit for that than the actual coaching.

Phil also coached a team whose second and third best players were Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom to a title.  And look what happened to Kobe and Shaq in the end.  There's something to be said about someone who can manage egos, and keeping those two in check for as long as he was able to is a minor miracle.  Not many people in this world can do that.

Disagreed on Ted Thompson being more at fault than Mike McCarthy.  Ted has the Packers in position to compete for a title every year.  With no data to back it up, it seems like injuries derail real chances to truly threaten for a Super Bowl quite a bit for the Packers compared to other teams (like this year).  Sure, you could look at this year and say, "How can the Packers be so thin at DB?"  Well, you can't really predict that your top CB is going to go down for good with a concussion and your next 2 CBs, who both had really solid rookie years, are going to have nagging injuries that make them about 60% of the player they were the year before throughout the season.  And sure, you could say, "Well, that's what happened so make a move to shore it up!"  But who's out there to get?  Charles Woodson isn't getting any younger.  But the Seahawks collapse is 100% on McCarthy and not Ted.  Do the Packers beat the Patriots in the Super Bowl if they win that game?  Nobody knows.  But Mac is the only reason we didn't find out.

If you haven't, I'm telling you you need to watch "Do Your Job" from 2 years ago.  I think I posted a link to it on YouTube in the Super Bowl thread.  It is incredible.  For as great of a GM as Belichick is, I'm 100% convinced he's a better coach than he is a GM.  The preparation is beyond absurd.  It's a great documentary by NFL Films.

[MU82]

Phil also coached a team whose second and third best players were Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom to a title.  And look what happened to Kobe and Shaq in the end.  There's something to be said about someone who can manage egos, and keeping those two in check for as long as he was able to is a minor miracle.  Not many people in this world can do that.

Excellent observation.

The X's and O's is the easy part for pro coaches. Ego-management is by far the biggest challenge, and some egos are harder to manage than others.

Michael Jordan was the best player in the world in 1984 and 1985 and 1986 and 1987 and 1988 and 1989, too. And yet Kevin Loughery, Stan Albeck and Doug Collins didn't get the Bulls anywhere near an NBA title - not even after Pippen, Grant and Cartwright joined Jordan and Paxson.

In the book he wrote in the '90s, Jackson talked about how he had to massage the egos.

He then went to L.A. and had to deal with a whole new set of egos, including two superstars who hated each other.

It would be hard to argue that Jackson had an "easier" road to championships than Auerbach did. Red had a dozen of the best players of that generation, maybe more. But Auerbach also deserves credit for massaging egos.

I mean, Bill Musselman was an absolutely brilliant basketball coach, but he would have had trouble winning with either the Bulls or Celtics.

There is a reason super-talented teams often don't sniff championships, especially in basketball and football.

Baseball is somewhat different, because less teamwork is necessary. Still, Torre had the perfect temperament to take over the late-90s Yankees, as did Stengel with the great Yankees of the '50s. Although I do think many, many other good managers could have won with those teams.

Other all-time great coaches whose named popped in my head: Chuck Noll, Bill Walsh, Herb Brooks (3 NCAA titles before Miracle On Ice), Bob Johnson, Tom Landry, Jimmy Johnson, Bill Parcells.

[tower912]

Pat Summit, john Wooden, Geno, Casey Stengel,  Belichik

[warriorchick]

IMO in order to be considered one of the greatest of all time, you better be pretty squeaky clean.

That leaves out Belichick.

[brandx]

Pat Summit, john Wooden, Geno, Casey Stengel,  Belichik

Casey had 12 losing seasons in the 13 years he managed teams other than the Yankees (see Torre, Joe).

[MerrittsMustache]

IMO in order to be considered one of the greatest of all time, you better be pretty squeaky clean.

That leaves out Belichick.

Agree. I view Belichick in the same way that I view suspected PED users in the baseball HOF. Sure, he's an all-timer and he accomplished great things but how much of what he achieved was done without "help."


By the way, no mention of George Halas yet?!

[GGGG]

Agree. I view Belichick's in the same way that I view suspected PED users in the baseball HOF. Sure, he's an all-timer and he accomplished great things but how much of what he achieved was done without "help."

Yeah, but Wooden got help too.  His players were likely paid.

I think it is hard to say this guy "is a cheater" and this guy "isn't a cheater."  It's likely more of a continuum.

Also it is hard to compare across eras.  Auerbach and Lombardi didn't have to deal with free agency.  Some coaches, like Phil Jackson, have been put in favorable positions as well.  Popovich is another one.  Robinson is injured so the Spurs miss the playoffs, they win the draft lottery and get Tim Duncan.  Now they are loaded.

What if Pitino's Celtics win that lottery and Duncan ends up in Boston?  How do we judge Pop v. Pitino then?

[wadesworld]

What has Belichick done that makes him a "cheater?"  Headsets?  Those are supplied, managed, and operated by the NFL, so if there was tampering there then that's on the NFL.  Spy gate?  Pretty much every coach in the NFL has admitted they were doing the same things, so when that happened Belichick just said, "Eff it" and made it so blatantly obvious that the NFL had no choice but to punish him for it.  Deflategate?  Not something he was in on, and even if he was, it's air in a football.  Many quarterbacks have come out and said they prefer a football to be a certain way (over or under inflated).  Basketball players prefer the same things.  Etc.  Didn't the NFL say they would be checking the footballs throughout this season to see if they naturally deflate to where the footballs were found to have deflated in that game?  Why haven't we heard anything?  Makes you wonder...

Am I missing anything?

[warriorchick]

What has Belichick done that makes him a "cheater?"  Headsets?  Those are supplied, managed, and operated by the NFL, so if there was tampering there then that's on the NFL.  Spy gate?  Pretty much every coach in the NFL has admitted they were doing the same things, so when that happened Belichick just said, "Eff it" and made it so blatantly obvious that the NFL had no choice but to punish him for it.  Deflategate?  Not something he was in on, and even if he was, it's air in a football.  Many quarterbacks have come out and said they prefer a football to be a certain way (over or under inflated).  Basketball players prefer the same things.  Etc.  Didn't the NFL say they would be checking the footballs throughout this season to see if they naturally deflate to where the footballs were found to have deflated in that game?  Why haven't we heard anything?  Makes you wonder...

Am I missing anything?

People who are indeed "the greatest" don't use the excuse "everyone does it".  And he was also dumb enough to get caught. Another disqualifier.

[MerrittsMustache]

Yeah, but Wooden got help too.  His players were likely paid.

I think it is hard to say this guy "is a cheater" and this guy "isn't a cheater."  It's likely more of a continuum.

Also it is hard to compare across eras.  Auerbach and Lombardi didn't have to deal with free agency.  Some coaches, like Phil Jackson, have been put in favorable positions as well.  Popovich is another one.  Robinson is injured so the Spurs miss the playoffs, they win the draft lottery and get Tim Duncan.  Now they are loaded.

What if Pitino's Celtics win that lottery and Duncan ends up in Boston?  How do we judge Pop v. Pitino then?

I view Wooden the same way. He was as dirty as they come.

Pitino couldn't manage the personalities at the NBA level. Tim Duncan is likely not spending nearly 20 years in Boston...and perhaps Pop could have built championship teams around Keith Van Horn   or Chauncey Billups

[wadesworld]

People who are indeed "the greatest" don't use the excuse "everyone does it".  And he was also dumb enough to get caught. Another disqualifier.

Why wouldn't they?  If everyone else is doing it and he's not, he's falling way behind.  I don't think he cared if he got caught at all, so I don't think it was him being "dumb."  I think it was him being Bill Belichick and not caring what people think of him.  If you want to think he's dumb or not good at his job or whatever, all he has to do is give a wave with a SB ring on each of his 5 fingers.

[GGGG]

I view Wooden the same way. He was as dirty as they come.

Pitino couldn't manage the personalities at the NBA level. Tim Duncan is likely not spending nearly 20 years in Boston...and perhaps Pop could have built championship teams around Keith Van Horn   or Chauncey Billups

You are likely right regarding NBA egos.

But IMO Pitino might be the greatest coach in college history.  He's taken three teams to the Final Four, winning national championships with two.  He was one of the first to grasp the importance of the 3 point line, and the concept of eFG% even if it wasn't called that. 

[Eldon]

Wades, I had no idea that you were related to Bill Belichick.  Tell him that I said congrats on his second clean Super Bowl win.  It was impressive.

[wadesworld]

Wades, I had no idea that you were related to Bill Belichick.  Tell him that I said congrats on his second clean Super Bowl win.  It was impressive.

I just appreciate greatness, and he is the greatest football coach I have seen in my lifetime.  Every coach cheats.  If you don't think they do I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

[Benny B]

Other all-time great coaches whose named popped in my head: Chuck Noll, Bill Walsh, Herb Brooks (3 NCAA titles before Miracle On Ice), Bob Johnson, Tom Landry, Jimmy Johnson, Bill Parcells.

Well done, 82... you at least get consolation prize for putting the winner in honorable mention.


I'm sorry, but it's not even close; Herb Brooks is the greatest coach in all of sports of all time not simply by virtue of being the head coach of the team that provided the world with, unequivocally, the greatest moment in sports history, but by virtue of how he assembled and coached a team that did what nobody - with exception of 20 guys in a Lake Placid locker room - thought he ever could.

Let's set aside the Cold War, fallout shelters, the Cuban Missile Crisis and War Games starring Matthew Broderick for a moment... Prior to the crumbling of the Berlin Wall, Soviet players were not allowed in the NHL, and the best of the best were selected for the ultra-elite Soviet National team (SNT) who competed internationally.  In other words, the Soviet hockey team was - for all intents and purposes - an "amateur" team composed of professional-caliber players that had won 13 national and Olympic championships out of the 16 years leading up to the 1980 Olympics.  Moreover, they very well could have won several Stanley Cups in the 70's had they competed in the NHL... even including the lesser teams from the Soviet Union, seven Soviet teams (including the SNT) played a total of 18 series (98 games total) against NHL teams from 1976-1991, going 14-2-2 in series play and 55-33-10 overall.  To say the SNT was a Goliath on the hockey rink would be a laughable understatement.

Now, keep in mind that 1980 was before Olympic teams were assembled from NHL rosters; Herb didn't even have the best players in the country at his disposal for the US Olympic Team.  So he had to assemble a team of mostly college players, but even then, Herb didn't take the best players, he took the right players.  Ice hockey at the 1979 National Sports Festival (US Olympic team tryouts) was pretty much a farce; Herb already had his roster drawn up before he got to Colorado Springs.   Although Herb left several of the best players in the country behind (some opted to sign pro contracts instead, others were simply cut), but USA Hockey actually considered giving Herb the boot after he made a couple mind-boggling selections, the most confounding of which was the selection of the worst-performing goalie (by far) at the '79 NSF: this guy sporting a 73% save percentage and a goals-against-average of over 12 -- in baseball, this would pretty much be the equivalent of a 1:15 K/BB ratio and an ERA in the 20's -- yet not only did he made the team, he ended up being the starter in Lake Placid (Jim Craig).

Think about having to assemble a team from D-League players and having to go up against a team consisting of LeBron, Russell, Steph, DeMarcus, Durant, Hardin, etc.  Think about how badly you would be crushed.  Even if Phil Jackson assembled that D-League team, do you think he'd even have a chance?  And who out there of all the other coaches mentioned could have not only told this team they had a chance with a straight face but actually got them to believe it?  Because that's essentially what Herb did... and then he won.

[4everwarriors]

Any votes for Stew, hey?

[GGGG]

After the Olympics though, Brooks was a largely unsuccessful NHL coach.

Bob Johnson matched him in NCAA titles, finished as a Stanley Cup runner up with Calgary (unseating the two time defending Stanley Cup champion Oilers in the process), and then winning one with the Penguins before dying of cancer six months later. 

But if you want to talk about the greatest hockey coach of all time, Scotty Bowman is on the top of that list.  He made 12 Stanley Cup Finals as a coach, winning 9 of them.

[MerrittsMustache]

Think about having to assemble a team from D-League players and having to go up against a team consisting of LeBron, Russell, Steph, DeMarcus, Durant, Hardin, etc.  Think about how badly you would be crushed.  Even if Phil Jackson assembled that D-League team, do you think he'd even have a chance?  And who out there of all the other coaches mentioned could have not only told this team they had a chance with a straight face but actually got them to believe it?  Because that's essentially what Herb did... and then he won.

You mean it'd be similar to seeing a team featuring LeBron, Carmelo, Wade, Duncan, Iverson and Stoudemire lose to Puerto Rico by 19 points in the Olympics?

Perhaps Brooks did the single greatest coaching job over the course of one "season" but greatest coach of all time? Nope.

[brandx]

After the Olympics though, Brooks was a largely unsuccessful NHL coach.

Bob Johnson matched him in NCAA titles, finished as a Stanley Cup runner up with Calgary (unseating the two time defending Stanley Cup champion Oilers in the process), and then winning one with the Penguins before dying of cancer six months later. 

But if you want to talk about the greatest hockey coach of all time, Scotty Bowman is on the top of that list.  He made 12 Stanley Cup Finals as a coach, winning 9 of them.

I think you are right, but it is harder to judge these old-timers. There were fewer teams and usually only a couple of real contenders. Certainly, Bowman was head and shoulders - and then some - above everyone else at the time. And unlike guys like Lombardi and Auerbach, he coached - successfully over a much longer span of time - both when there were many fewer teams and hockey was a Canadian game into the modern era as well.

So as much as I am a Packer fan, I would rate Bowman over Lombardi.

[JoeSmith1721]

Sir Alex Ferguson is easily top 5.

[#UnleashSean]

No doubt he is in the team picture of GOATs but to stand alone, he needs to win without Brady.

Patriots cruised with a third string quarterback and without gronk

[JWags85]

Patriots cruised with a third string quarterback and without gronk

Right, call me a Brady hater, but I think Brady is more the creation of Belichick and not the other way around.  His system is incredible and makes everyone good.  I dislike them both, but QB for QB, I think Rodgers is better.  In fact, I think there are about 4-5 QBs over the last 10-20 years who win like Brady has if they had that system and that continuity (Brees, Rodgers, P Manning recently)

[wadesworld]

Right, call me a Brady hater, but I think Brady is more the creation of Belichick and not the other way around.  His system is incredible and makes everyone good.  I dislike them both, but QB for QB, I think Rodgers is better.  In fact, I think there are about 4-5 QBs over the last 10-20 years who win like Brady has if they had that system and that continuity (Brees, Rodgers, P Manning recently)

I think they are both as good as advertised.  Both the GOAT in their position/sport.  It'd be like saying Phil Jackson is only good because of MJ or MJ is only good because of Phil.  No, they both made each other better, but they are both incredible at what they do regardless of the other.

[Sheriff]

George Halas

[Sheriff]

Red Auerbach

[🏀]

George Halas

Not even top 5 in the NFL, let alone all sports.

[Benny B]

Perhaps Brooks did the single greatest coaching job over the course of one "season" but greatest coach of all time? Nope.

Sounds like a fair compromise.

[dgies9156]

Tony LaRussa, Whitey Herzog.

I hate Bobby Knight but he's deserving.

[MerrittsMustache]

Not even top 5 in the NFL, let alone all sports.

He's got more wins and as many championships as Lombardi. Who are your top 5?

[Sheriff]

Not even top 5 in the NFL, let alone all sports.

Where are you coming from?  Halas has the most NFL championships (6).  Second to only Shula in wins.  He founded and kept the league alive to the TV era.  Without him there would be no NFL, Lombardi, Belichick, Super Bowl, Monday Night Football...

[🏀]

Shula, Lombardi, Walsh, Belicheck are guys on their own level.

Brown, Knoll, Landry, Halas and Halas are next up.

[MU82]

Well done, 82... you at least get consolation prize for putting the winner in honorable mention.


I'm sorry, but it's not even close; Herb Brooks is the greatest coach in all of sports of all time not simply by virtue of being the head coach of the team that provided the world with, unequivocally, the greatest moment in sports history, but by virtue of how he assembled and coached a team that did what nobody - with exception of 20 guys in a Lake Placid locker room - thought he ever could.

Let's set aside the Cold War, fallout shelters, the Cuban Missile Crisis and War Games starring Matthew Broderick for a moment... Prior to the crumbling of the Berlin Wall, Soviet players were not allowed in the NHL, and the best of the best were selected for the ultra-elite Soviet National team (SNT) who competed internationally.  In other words, the Soviet hockey team was - for all intents and purposes - an "amateur" team composed of professional-caliber players that had won 13 national and Olympic championships out of the 16 years leading up to the 1980 Olympics.  Moreover, they very well could have won several Stanley Cups in the 70's had they competed in the NHL... even including the lesser teams from the Soviet Union, seven Soviet teams (including the SNT) played a total of 18 series (98 games total) against NHL teams from 1976-1991, going 14-2-2 in series play and 55-33-10 overall.  To say the SNT was a Goliath on the hockey rink would be a laughable understatement.

Now, keep in mind that 1980 was before Olympic teams were assembled from NHL rosters; Herb didn't even have the best players in the country at his disposal for the US Olympic Team.  So he had to assemble a team of mostly college players, but even then, Herb didn't take the best players, he took the right players.  Ice hockey at the 1979 National Sports Festival (US Olympic team tryouts) was pretty much a farce; Herb already had his roster drawn up before he got to Colorado Springs.   Although Herb left several of the best players in the country behind (some opted to sign pro contracts instead, others were simply cut), but USA Hockey actually considered giving Herb the boot after he made a couple mind-boggling selections, the most confounding of which was the selection of the worst-performing goalie (by far) at the '79 NSF: this guy sporting a 73% save percentage and a goals-against-average of over 12 -- in baseball, this would pretty much be the equivalent of a 1:15 K/BB ratio and an ERA in the 20's -- yet not only did he made the team, he ended up being the starter in Lake Placid (Jim Craig).

Think about having to assemble a team from D-League players and having to go up against a team consisting of LeBron, Russell, Steph, DeMarcus, Durant, Hardin, etc.  Think about how badly you would be crushed.  Even if Phil Jackson assembled that D-League team, do you think he'd even have a chance?  And who out there of all the other coaches mentioned could have not only told this team they had a chance with a straight face but actually got them to believe it?  Because that's essentially what Herb did... and then he won.

Brooks wasn't an "honorable mention" pick. I just thought of him a little later.

You stated things unequivocally, but it's just your opinion, not fact.

I tend to agree it was one of the great feats in coaching, though. Those who like college hoops but not hockey would probably argue for Rollie doing just as good a job with Nova over Georgetown, but I tend to think beating the Big Red Machine with a bunch of college kids was bigger, yes.

[Sheriff]

In terms of records, accomplishments and impact on the game, Halas is top tier.

[🏀]

In terms of records, accomplishments and impact on the game, Halas is top tier.

Impact on the game means very little when you're discussing greatest coach. And I would hope a guy that coached for almost 50 seasons did well in the counting stats.

[brandx]

Shula, Lombardi, Walsh, Belicheck are guys on their own level.

Brown, Knoll, Landry, Halas and Halas are next up.

Sure is easy to be great when you have HOF QBs.

[Sheriff]

Impact on the game means very little when you're discussing greatest coach. And I would hope a guy that coached for almost 50 seasons did well in the counting stats.

In your opinion, anyway.

[jutaw22mu]

PAUL BROWN

[RJax55]

PAUL BROWN

Definitely, top 5 for sure. So ahead of his time. And, there's no way you can have Walsh ahead of Brown.

[Lennys Tap]

IMO in order to be considered one of the greatest of all time, you better be pretty squeaky clean.

That leaves out Belichick.

Squeaky clean leaves out everybody.

[warriorchick]

Squeaky clean leaves out everybody.

Pat Summit?  What has she done?

[brandx]

Excellent observation.

The X's and O's is the easy part for pro coaches. Ego-management is by far the biggest challenge, and some egos are harder to manage than others.

Michael Jordan was the best player in the world in 1984 and 1985 and 1986 and 1987 and 1988 and 1989, too. And yet Kevin Loughery, Stan Albeck and Doug Collins didn't get the Bulls anywhere near an NBA title - not even after Pippen, Grant and Cartwright joined Jordan and Paxson.

In the book he wrote in the '90s, Jackson talked about how he had to massage the egos.

Apparently it is easier to massage egos as a coach than as a GM.

[Eldon]

Phil also coached a team whose second and third best players were Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom to a title.  And look what happened to Kobe and Shaq in the end.  There's something to be said about someone who can manage egos, and keeping those two in check for as long as he was able to is a minor miracle.  Not many people in this world can do that.

Disagreed on Ted Thompson being more at fault than Mike McCarthy.  Ted has the Packers in position to compete for a title every year.  With no data to back it up, it seems like injuries derail real chances to truly threaten for a Super Bowl quite a bit for the Packers compared to other teams (like this year).  Sure, you could look at this year and say, "How can the Packers be so thin at DB?"  Well, you can't really predict that your top CB is going to go down for good with a concussion and your next 2 CBs, who both had really solid rookie years, are going to have nagging injuries that make them about 60% of the player they were the year before throughout the season.  And sure, you could say, "Well, that's what happened so make a move to shore it up!"  But who's out there to get?  Charles Woodson isn't getting any younger.  But the Seahawks collapse is 100% on McCarthy and not Ted.  Do the Packers beat the Patriots in the Super Bowl if they win that game?  Nobody knows.  But Mac is the only reason we didn't find out.

If you haven't, I'm telling you you need to watch "Do Your Job" from 2 years ago.  I think I posted a link to it on YouTube in the Super Bowl thread.  It is incredible.  For as great of a GM as Belichick is, I'm 100% convinced he's a better coach than he is a GM.  The preparation is beyond absurd.  It's a great documentary by NFL Films.

This is a good point--one that I think is often underappreciated and one that I often point out to Phil Jackson haters. 

And to be fair to your uncle Bill, I think he is great in this regard.  I mean the guy had a murderer on his team and was still able to coach him to be a successful tight end.  The guy had Randy "Straight Cash Homie" Moss singing praises about him...while Moss was on another team (Vikings)!.  Says a lot about how the players see the coach.  Whether he is an egregious cheater or only a mild cheater, it's clear that Belicheat's players respect the hell out of him.

[GGGG]

Apparently it is easier to massage egos as a coach than as a GM.

Jackson has always had excellent GMs to work with.  Jerry Krause deserves a better rep than he has and Jerry West is a freakin' legend.

[GoldenDieners32]

Al is the GOAT

[MU82]

Jackson has always had excellent GMs to work with.  Jerry Krause deserves a better rep than he has and Jerry West is a freakin' legend.

This is true, but there are multiple sides to every story.

Auerbach used to tout himself as being superior to Jackson because Red built the Celtics while Jackson simply coached the Bulls. However, Red got to coach the players he brought in while Phil had to coach whichever players Krause threw at him. Fortunately for Jackson, Krause was, as you say, a very good GM.

Krause deeply resented Jackson and the players getting 95% of the credit. Eventually, that resentment - along with the egos of Jackson, Jordan, Pippen, etc - led to a schism between Jackson and Krause. And that, in turn, led to Krause desperately wanting to get rid of Jackson and bring in his own bobo who would be indebted to him ... just as Phil once was indebted to Krause for being rescued from the CBA when nobody else would touch him. So Krause chased away Jackson, hired a thoroughly unprepared Floyd and convinced Reinsdorf to blow up the Bulls because he was certain he could rebuild the team quickly. Reinsdorf, who did not want to pony up the big money to keep the dynasty alive, was all too happy to blow it up.

And the Bulls have mostly disappointed ever since.

End of history lesson ... and back to the subject at hand:

Jackson was a hell of a coach. He knew how to work with assistants and delegate authority and, most importantly, he knew how to push the buttons of some of the most egotistical athletes in basketball history.

[Lennys Tap]

Pat Summit?  What has she done?

From everything I know about Pat Summit she was a great coach and a fine person. Maybe she didn't have to make any "compromises" to be great - but if she didn't it was because she had so little competition for much of her run. For me, that alone removes her from the top of this list.

[MU82]

From everything I know about Pat Summit she was a great coach and a fine person. Maybe she didn't have to make any "compromises" to be great - but if she didn't it was because she had so little competition for much of her run. For me, that alone removes her from the top of this list.

Does it also remove Auerbach? How about any Yankee manager in the pre-free-agent era?

[PBRme]

 Al Mcguire

Then everyone else

[GGGG]

Al is the GOAT

Not really.

[warriorchick]

From everything I know about Pat Summit she was a great coach and a fine person. Maybe she didn't have to make any "compromises" to be great - but if she didn't it was because she had so little competition for much of her run. For me, that alone removes her from the top of this list.

No one has ever built a dominant powerhouse program from less than what she had to start with - in any sport.  She had literally no budget and no staff. After games, she had to take the uniforms home and wash them in the basement of her apartment building, FFS.

She is the reason that people now pay attention to women's college basketball.

[MU82]

No one has ever built a dominant powerhouse program from less than what she had to start with - in any sport.  She had literally no budget and no staff. After games, she had to take the uniforms home and wash them in the basement of her apartment building, FFS.

She is the reason that people now pay attention to women's college basketball.

Agreed, chickadee. Summit is an absolute no-brainer on this list.

[GGGG]

No one has ever built a dominant powerhouse program from less than what she had to start with - in any sport.  She had literally no budget and no staff. After games, she had to take the uniforms home and wash them in the basement of her apartment building, FFS.

She is the reason that people now pay attention to women's college basketball.

The items you mention in the first paragraph were faced by pretty much every other women's basketball coach at the time so I'm not sure she could get extra credit for those things.

Her record speaks for itself.

[Spotcheck Billy]

Crean

[muwarrior69]

Victor Tikhonov

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Tikhonov_(ice_hockey,_born_1930)

[MU82]

Victor Tikhonov

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Tikhonov_(ice_hockey,_born_1930)

That's a great addition, 69er.

[brandx]

Victor Tikhonov

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Tikhonov_(ice_hockey,_born_1930)

Kinda like Phil Jackson. He had the BEST players every time he won a champiuonship. USSR was a huge country and he had the best of the best. And it is not like he had to go up against NHL players to win. Back then,almost all of his world championships were won against amateur players.

I don't mean to say he wasn't a great coach, but even a good coach with the best players will be extremely successful.

[GGGG]

And Anatoli Tarasov was probably better anyway.

[MU82]

Kinda like Phil Jackson. He had the BEST players every time he won a champiuonship. USSR was a huge country and he had the best of the best. And it is not like he had to go up against NHL players to win. Back then,almost all of his world championships were won against amateur players.

I don't mean to say he wasn't a great coach, but even a good coach with the best players will be extremely successful.

I don't know enough about Russian hockey. But I do know that Phil Jackson was a great coach. Jordan, Kobe and Shaq had lots of coaches over the years. Jordan and Kobe only won when Jackson was their coach, and Shaq only won when either Jackson or Riley was his coach (the latter time near the end of his career when Wade carried the Heat).

[muwarrior69]

I don't know enough about Russian hockey. But I do know that Phil Jackson was a great coach. Jordan, Kobe and Shaq had lots of coaches over the years. Jordan and Kobe only won when Jackson was their coach, and Shaq only won when either Jackson or Riley was his coach (the latter time near the end of his career when Wade carried the Heat).

Yeah! I don't buy that either. I would guess there are coaches who have lost with the "best" players too.

[GGGG]

I can see an average coach winning a championship with the best players.  But 11 of them?  Nah...

[MU82]

I can see an average coach winning a championship with the best players.  But 11 of them?  Nah...

Yeah ... he was just lucky ... 11 times.