The future is bright... Today was dark, really dark

[brewcity77]

Please re-read your sentence.  The offense not adjusting did us in?  When they blew a 16 point half time lead.  Ok if this is what you are going to stick with ok.  To me, this game didn't scream offensive problems, but to you obviously it did.  We can agree to disagree.

Please reread my post. The offensive adjustment failures led directly to the defensive breakdowns. We didn't attack and weren't hitting shots, that allowed transition baskets, open driving lanes, and forced us into fouls at the other end.

There defense sucked because of breakdowns and failures to adjust that started on the offensive end. I'm not saying the defense wasn't a problem, I'm saying the offense led directly to the defensive problems.

[HutchwasClutch]

Please explain to me how Holtmann was making Wojo look like a fool. I'm not saying you are wrong, but please show your work.

Happy to -
Butler attacking the paint hard in the second half, after playing very passively in the first half, meanwhile MU was happy and content to just keep jacking up threes the opening 5-6 minutes of the second half, while in the meantime, they weren't even looking to their senior big down low.  Fischer got 1 shot attempt the entire game.  (I'll have to double check the box, did Heldt have as many or more shot attempts today?)   The threes kept coming and MU kept ignoring anything to do w/ the post or paint while Butler had extended their man to man defense.  Wojo did absolutely nothing to adjust to Butler's extended D, and attacking the paint.   Len Elmore was saying too that MU needs to work their offense from inside out.   You don't win Big East games, especially on the road, by outscoring teams from three. 

[HutchwasClutch]

Do not have enough length to go zone all the time. Will have more trouble rebounding and good shooters will feast over our small guards. Good for change of pace but not primary D for this team.

It was meant as sarcasm by saying just play nothing but zone.  You're right, they don't have the length, and rebounding would be an even bigger issue for them. 

It's frustrating because they have so many break downs in man to man, you have other teams guys start their dribble drive out beyond the arc, and get all the way to the basket, without anybody stepping up to help, take a charge, etc.    They seem to be lacking in just basic man to man concepts.  And it's all way too frequent to simply say it's all on the players.  Coaches need to correct this stuff.

[mugrack]

I blame the Russians for Marquette losing today

[ATWizJr]

or 3 years away, maybe 4, for sure 5...........

exactly.

[GoldenDieners32]

Happy to -
Butler attacking the paint hard in the second half, after playing very passively in the first half, meanwhile MU was happy and content to just keep jacking up threes the opening 5-6 minutes of the second half, while in the meantime, they weren't even looking to their senior big down low.  Fischer got 1 shot attempt the entire game.  (I'll have to double check the box, did Heldt have as many or more shot attempts today?)   The threes kept coming and MU kept ignoring anything to do w/ the post or paint while Butler had extended their man to man defense.  Wojo did absolutely nothing to adjust to Butler's extended D, and attacking the paint.   Len Elmore was saying too that MU needs to work their offense from inside out.   You don't win Big East games, especially on the road, by outscoring teams from three.

MU needs to learn how to do this. The only people i see consistently do this is Markus and JJJ. Sometimes Haanif 

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

MU needs to learn how to do this. The only people i see consistently do this is Markus and JJJ. Sometimes Haanif

Huh? Its not something thats in everybodys skill set, the three people you mentioned are the only three that probably should be driving the lane besides maybe Duane. If you tell Rowsey, Sam, or even Katin to drive the lane more, you arent putting them in a position to succeed and are taking them away from what they do best, which is shoot the ball.

[MU82]

All reflects on horrid coaching.

So you are advocating what?

Fire Wojo right now, or wait till the end of the season?

[fjm]

So you are advocating what?

Fire Wojo right now, or wait till the end of the season?

Probably advocating fire Wojo at seasons end, restart the rebuild and see cheats, Howard and Hauser transfer due to Wojo leaving.

[HutchwasClutch]

So you are advocating what?

Fire Wojo right now, or wait till the end of the season?

I'm not advocating anything now.  There is a very troubling pattern that's developing here though.  Look back at our losses, Pitt and Butler big second half leads squandered.  UW and Michigan, both just abusing us on the defensive end.   A continuing pattern of extremely soft play and breakdowns in man defense. 

Mr. Scholl needs to let the season play out, and then take a hard look at the direction of the program when it's all said and done.  Has Wojo brought in talented kids? Of course.  Have the results been there?  Of course not.   We've got a real uphill climb to even get in the NCAA conversation as things stand now. 

So many here act like they want no part of judging anything Wojo does still, and anybody that dares to call him out are trolling.   I am not even close to jumping on here following every loss, or saying a win should have been by a bigger margin.  So when is it time to start holding he and his staff accountable??  As another poster said, this young coach stuff is crap.  He was a long time assistant, top assistant for several years, under arguably the greatest college coach ever, and his PG before that, in a conference that is year in and year out one of the best, if not the best, in the country. 

Maybe he, his staff, and players will be able to learn from what's happened so far this year, and figure out how to win these, but I am highly skeptical right now.   


 

[MU82]

I'm not advocating anything now.  There is a very troubling pattern that's developing here though.  Look back at our losses, Pitt and Butler big second half leads squandered.  UW and Michigan, both just abusing us on the defensive end.   A continuing pattern of extremely soft play and breakdowns in man defense. 

Mr. Scholl needs to let the season play out, and then take a hard look at the direction of the program when it's all said and done.  Has Wojo brought in talented kids? Of course.  Have the results been there?  Of course not.   We've got a real uphill climb to even get in the NCAA conversation as things stand now. 

So many here act like they want no part of judging anything Wojo does still, and anybody that dares to call him out are trolling.   I am not even close to jumping on here following every loss, or saying a win should have been by a bigger margin.  So when is it time to start holding he and his staff accountable??  As another poster said, this young coach stuff is crap.  He was a long time assistant, top assistant for several years, under arguably the greatest college coach ever, and his PG before that, in a conference that is year in and year out one of the best, if not the best, in the country. 

Maybe he, his staff, and players will be able to learn from what's happened so far this year, and figure out how to win these, but I am highly skeptical right now.   


 

OK.

You kept saying the coach was doing a horrible job, so I thought you had something to offer that would solve this catastrophic problem quickly.

Instead you simply want "a hard look at the direction of the program" and hope that such a look will result in Wojo being held "accountable."

Lovely.

Next!

[HutchwasClutch]

OK.

You kept saying the coach was doing a horrible job, so I thought you had something to offer that would solve this catastrophic problem quickly.

Instead you simply want "a hard look at the direction of the program" and hope that such a look will result in Wojo being held "accountable."

Lovely.

Next!

Ok.

You have nothing but sarcasm.   

Next!

[MU82]

Ok.

You have nothing but sarcasm.   

Next!

Nope, I have already stated what I think should happen:

Wojo should continue to recruit well. Wojo also should try to improve as a coach and to try to get his players to improve both indivudually and collectively - something I believe he is doing gradually.

If at this point in the 2018-19 season we are still at this point - which seems to be just good enough to be not quite good enough - it probably will be time for the powers-that-be to take stock in the program's direction and, if deemed necessary, make a change.

In other words, it's the very boring, "Give it time before blowing up a potential good thing and starting from effen scratch."

I happen to think that's more reasonable than, "Wojo sucks! It's all on the coach! He's already had plenty of opportunity to turn this thing around! Time to put him on the hot seat!"

But maybe that's just me.

[GGGG]

Happy to -
Butler attacking the paint hard in the second half, after playing very passively in the first half, meanwhile MU was happy and content to just keep jacking up threes the opening 5-6 minutes of the second half, while in the meantime, they weren't even looking to their senior big down low.  Fischer got 1 shot attempt the entire game.  (I'll have to double check the box, did Heldt have as many or more shot attempts today?)   The threes kept coming and MU kept ignoring anything to do w/ the post or paint while Butler had extended their man to man defense.  Wojo did absolutely nothing to adjust to Butler's extended D, and attacking the paint.   Len Elmore was saying too that MU needs to work their offense from inside out.   You don't win Big East games, especially on the road, by outscoring teams from three. 

Where did you get this notion that "You don't win Big East games, especially on the road, by outscoring teams from three."  That's ridiculous.  Of course you do.

Villanova took more 3s than any team in the BE last year.  They won the conference.
In 2014-15?  Villanova.  They won the conference.
In 2013-14?  Creighton, followed by Villanova.  They finished second and first respectively.

And you know how bad Marquette's offense was second half?  So bad that they scored TWO less points.  Two. 

That game was all about the defense falling apart.  The offense was just fine.  Probably should have attacked the basket more.  But Luke Fischer?  You want more contested flip shots?  No thanks.  Worst shot in basketball.

Modern college basketball...find shooters...shoot from distance. 

[HutchwasClutch]

Nope, I have already stated what I think should happen:

Wojo should continue to recruit well. Wojo also should try to improve as a coach and to try to get his players to improve both indivudually and collectively - something I believe he is doing gradually.

If at this point in the 2018-19 season we are still at this point - which seems to be just good enough to be not quite good enough - it probably will be time for the powers-that-be to take stock in the program's direction and, if deemed necessary, make a change.

In other words, it's the very boring, "Give it time before blowing up a potential good thing and starting from effen scratch."

I happen to think that's more reasonable than, "Wojo sucks! It's all on the coach! He's already had plenty of opportunity to turn this thing around! Time to put him on the hot seat!"

But maybe that's just me.

Fair enough.   You have your opinion, I have mine.  I've waited and tried to be patient before getting to this point.  It's hardly been a knee jerk reaction to one loss. 

[bilsu]

Our defense has sucked all year. Hasn't improved much at all. Someone is to blame, either coaches or players. This is college ball and thus I think the blame goes to the coaches

I think the guards have improved on defense, but our interior defense is weak and not improving. The probelm is really with the power positions. Heldt when in position seems to me to be a better defender than Fischer, but when he is in the other team seems to get more open shots under the basket due to Heldt or someone else being out of position. Hauser makes a good effort on defense, but he is not a power forward. Of couse good defense is only successful, if you get the rebound.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Happy to -
Butler attacking the paint hard in the second half, after playing very passively in the first half, meanwhile MU was happy and content to just keep jacking up threes the opening 5-6 minutes of the second half, while in the meantime, they weren't even looking to their senior big down low.  Fischer got 1 shot attempt the entire game.  (I'll have to double check the box, did Heldt have as many or more shot attempts today?)   The threes kept coming and MU kept ignoring anything to do w/ the post or paint while Butler had extended their man to man defense.  Wojo did absolutely nothing to adjust to Butler's extended D, and attacking the paint.   Len Elmore was saying too that MU needs to work their offense from inside out.   You don't win Big East games, especially on the road, by outscoring teams from three.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I appreciate it. I have found that people often make complaints about a "lack of adjustments" when they are frustrated with a loss and don't know who to blame.

I didn't see the same thing you did in the second half. Marquette only took 4 three pointers in the first seven minutes of the half. For our offense, that is pretty average if not below average. We only took 5 in the first 14 minutes of the second half which is WAY below our average.

The adjustment I wanted to see was a zone. I have long been an opponent of a zone for this team. I think it would exasperate our rebounding issue and compromise our offense, the best part of our game. But with the game being called as tight as it was, I think it might have been the only way to stop the layup line without our entire team fouling out by the 10 minute mark. Good lord, I still can't get over how different the reffing was between the two halves.

[El Duderino]

Our defense has sucked all year. Hasn't improved much at all. Someone is to blame, either coaches or players. This is college ball and thus I think the blame goes to the coaches

The defense has sucked each season Wojo has been our head coach. Different players, same result on that end. At some point most of the blame as to be put at the feet of the coaching staff.

Other coaches get teams with a mix of young and older players to defend. Buzz for example did his share to get run out of the job here, but never once were any of his teams as soft as each of Wojo's teams have been.

I won't claim to know what's being taught wrong to explain why his teams keep being soft and weak defensively, but soft teams who don't defend never amount to much. Wojo seems a quality recruiter, but that's only half of the job and he wouldn't be the first good recruiter who just couldn't coach up players at the level he could recruit them.

[skianth16]

It was tough to know that for a while we were considered a stepping stone school. We would win, but our coaches wouldn't stick. But now it looks like a lot of posters on here look at MU as a developmental program. Going 5 or 6 years in a row without sniffing the tournament seems to be OK in the hopes that our coach might figure a few things out along the way.

Personally, I would think a job in the Horizon League, the MAAC or even the A-10 is where new head coaches should be cutting their teeth. But seeing Wojo go through his growing pains at Marquette - in a highly competitive and nationally known conference, while receiving what can only be assumed to be a top 20 comp package - is frustrating for a lot of fans. We took a shot on Buzz having very little HC experience, and that worked out for us very quickly. Wojo, on the other hand, is on the long track to graduation, and a lot of fans aren't thrilled with that, which is proven again and again by the open seats in the BC.

[GGGG]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I appreciate it. I have found that people often make complaints about a "lack of adjustments" when they are frustrated with a loss and don't know who to blame.

I didn't see the same thing you did in the second half. Marquette only took 4 three pointers in the first seven minutes of the half. For our offense, that is pretty average if not below average. We only took 5 in the first 14 minutes of the second half which is WAY below our average.

Butler was running us off the line, and we couldn't take advantage of it. 

[GGGG]

We took a shot on Buzz having very little HC experience, and that worked out for us very quickly. Wojo, on the other hand, is on the long track to graduation, and a lot of fans aren't thrilled with that, which is proven again and again by the open seats in the BC.

It also worked out for us with O'Neill and Crean. 

But that is an interesting point.  The only other coach in the BE that had no coaching experience when he took the job was Chris Mack, and he was the lead assistant under Miller so it was more of a continuation.

[buckchuckler]

Please reread my post. The offensive adjustment failures led directly to the defensive breakdowns. We didn't attack and weren't hitting shots, that allowed transition baskets, open driving lanes, and forced us into fouls at the other end.

There defense sucked because of breakdowns and failures to adjust that started on the offensive end. I'm not saying the defense wasn't a problem, I'm saying the offense led directly to the defensive problems.

I understand that bad offense can lead to easy points the other way.  But, boy, it is some truly horrendous offense that leads to 63 points going the other way.