collapse

* Stud of Colorado Game

Tyler Kolek

21 points, 5 rebounds,
11 assists, 1 steal,
40 minutes

2023-24 Season SoG Tally
Kolek11
Ighodaro6
Jones, K.6
Mitchell2
Jones, S.1
Joplin1

'22-23
'21-22 * '20-21 * '19-20
'18-19 * '17-18 * '16-17
'15-16 * '14-15 * '13-14
'12-13 * '11-12 * '10-11

* Big East Standings

* Recent Posts

2024 Transfer Portal by Juan Anderson's Mixtape
[Today at 12:05:17 PM]


Dallas bars tonite by Boston Warrior
[Today at 11:50:20 AM]


2024 Coaching Carousel by the eagle
[Today at 11:39:07 AM]


Chicago bars for Fri game by BrewCity83
[Today at 11:26:20 AM]


NC State by MUMountin
[Today at 11:25:44 AM]


2024 NCAA Tournament Thread by Uncle Rico
[Today at 11:15:58 AM]


Kam Jones 1st Round Mock - The Ringer by PGsHeroes32
[Today at 10:50:38 AM]

Please Register - It's FREE!

The absolute only thing required for this FREE registration is a valid e-mail address.  We keep all your information confidential and will NEVER give or sell it to anyone else.
Login to get rid of this box (and ads) , or register NOW!

* Next up: NC State

Marquette
81
Marquette vs

NC State

Date/Time: Mar 29, 2024, 6:09 pm
TV: CBS
Schedule for 2023-24
Colorado
77

Author Topic: The future is bright... Today was dark, really dark  (Read 7491 times)

goldeneagle91114

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 860
The future is bright... Today was dark, really dark
« on: January 16, 2017, 01:16:50 PM »
Not going to jump of any type of cliff here...but that is just frustrating to watch

the utter darkness:
 1. The seniors - wont/cant step up, been like that for 4 years
 2. Defense - 63 in the second half?
 2a. Young coach - needs to know when to change it up.
 3. 11 a.m. game on a Monday

the bright spots:
1. the freshman have potential
1a. you can see Wojo's offense beginning to take shape
2. Good learning experience for the freshmen
3. The first half

bottom line, you have to play a full game. And you can play not to lose

tower912

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 23345
Re: The future is bright... Today was dark, really dark
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2017, 01:25:30 PM »
Not going to jump of any type of cliff here...but that is just frustrating to watch

the utter darkness:
 1. The seniors - wont/cant step up, been like that for 4 years
 2. Defense - 63 in the second half?
 2a. Young coach - needs to know when to change it up.
 3. 11 a.m. game on a Monday

the bright spots:
1. the freshman have potential
1a. you can see Wojo's offense beginning to take shape
2. Good learning experience for the freshmen
3. The first half

bottom line, you have to play a full game. And you can play not to lose

What should/could Wojo have changed?    Playing the way that got him a 16 point halftime lead?    Telling his players to not play aggressive defense in the second half because all contact was being called a foul?    Once in foul trouble, use Matt Heldt more?  (for the record, I like that one, but think about that for a second.    Wojo's best option was to use Matt Heldt more)    Pressure a team that never turns the ball over?    Order his team to make more shots?

When Luke got in foul trouble, Wojo chose to go with offense and try to outscore the other team when it was clear that his team had completely lost defensive focus.   Like we got to listen to him warn them about.   
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

goldeneagle91114

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 860
Re: The future is bright... Today was dark, really dark
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2017, 01:37:29 PM »
What should/could Wojo have changed?    Playing the way that got him a 16 point halftime lead?    Telling his players to not play aggressive defense in the second half because all contact was being called a foul?    Once in foul trouble, use Matt Heldt more?  (for the record, I like that one, but think about that for a second.    Wojo's best option was to use Matt Heldt more)    Pressure a team that never turns the ball over?    Order his team to make more shots?

When Luke got in foul trouble, Wojo chose to go with offense and try to outscore the other team when it was clear that his team had completely lost defensive focus.   Like we got to listen to him warn them about.   

Honestly, I'm not sure what Wojo could/should have done, i'm not even a fantasy basketball coach, let alone a D1 college basketball coach, However, maybe wojo should ask one of the following coaches, none of the gave up 63 in a half to Butler:
1. Northern Colorado
2. Northwestern
3.Bucknell
4. Norfolk state
5.Vanderbelt
6. Arizona
7. Utah
8. Central Arkansas
9. Indiana State
10. Cincinnati
11. Indiana
12. Vermont
13. St. Johns
14. Providence
15. Nova
16. Georgetown
17. Creighton
 

tower912

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 23345
Re: The future is bright... Today was dark, really dark
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2017, 01:44:35 PM »
Xavier just gave up 58 in the second half to Butler.  Maybe it is Butler.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

MerrittsMustache

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4676
Re: The future is bright... Today was dark, really dark
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2017, 01:48:54 PM »
What should/could Wojo have changed?    Playing the way that got him a 16 point halftime lead?    Telling his players to not play aggressive defense in the second half because all contact was being called a foul?    Once in foul trouble, use Matt Heldt more?  (for the record, I like that one, but think about that for a second.    Wojo's best option was to use Matt Heldt more)    Pressure a team that never turns the ball over?    Order his team to make more shots?

When Luke got in foul trouble, Wojo chose to go with offense and try to outscore the other team when it was clear that his team had completely lost defensive focus.   Like we got to listen to him warn them about.   

More Duane Wilson. He can at least guard on the perimeter and could have slowed down the parade of lay-ups. Butler absolutely abused Rowsey in the 2nd half and Howard didn't fair much better. Wilson isn't going to be confused for a defensive stopper...well, unless you compare him to Rowsey.


goldeneagle91114

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 860
Re: The future is bright... Today was dark, really dark
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2017, 01:49:05 PM »
Xavier just gave up 58 in the second half to Butler.  Maybe it is Butler.

Tower, I agree with about 99% of the stuff you post on the boards. But come on, only twice this season has Butler scored more than 50 points in a half. if Central Arkansas, Northern Colorado and Norfolk state can do it, our team should be able to do it to.

4everwarriors

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 15995
Re: The future is bright... Today was dark, really dark
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2017, 01:55:06 PM »
Damn straight, 'cuz we are Marquette, ai na?
"Give 'Em Hell, Al"

brewcity77

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 26360
  • Warning-This poster may trigger thin skinned users
    • Cracked Sidewalks
Re: The future is bright... Today was dark, really dark
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2017, 01:58:52 PM »
Tower, I agree with about 99% of the stuff you post on the boards. But come on, only twice this season has Butler scored more than 50 points in a half. if Central Arkansas, Northern Colorado and Norfolk state can do it, our team should be able to do it to.

What could the staff have done? They tried to go small, but Butler was quicker and any contact was a whistle. Had they gone zone without bigs, Butler would have had all day to pass around and easier offensive rebounds.

Honestly, as bad as the defense was in the second, the real problem was the offense. We settled for jumpers that were no longer falling. This allowed for Butler to get run-outs and turn up the pressure in transition. We needed to adjust to the refs and start driving, which we did, but too late.
This space reserved for a 2024 National Championship celebration banner.

goldeneagle91114

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 860
Re: The future is bright... Today was dark, really dark
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2017, 02:02:25 PM »
What could the staff have done? They tried to go small, but Butler was quicker and any contact was a whistle. Had they gone zone without bigs, Butler would have had all day to pass around and easier offensive rebounds.

Honestly, as bad as the defense was in the second, the real problem was the offense. We settled for jumpers that were no longer falling. This allowed for Butler to get run-outs and turn up the pressure in transition. We needed to adjust to the refs and start driving, which we did, but too late.

Brew, i hear what your saying.I think your point about offense is spot on. as i said above, i don't try to even pretend i know college basketball. But if the 17 teams listed above can find ways to not give up 50+ points in a half Wojo and team (and by team i mean players) need to do the same.

ecompt

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3339
Re: The future is bright... Today was dark, really dark
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2017, 02:03:36 PM »
I am not ripping Wojo here but this "young coach" crap has to stop. He is NOT someone who got out of college five years ago and is suddenly thrust into the spotlight. He was an assistant at one of the nation's best programs for 15 years and is in his third year running a program. One can use the excuse that he did not recruit the seniors or Duane, and that once he has his own guys that things will get better, but you cannot use the excuse that he is young and inexperienced.

LAZER

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1794
Re: The future is bright... Today was dark, really dark
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2017, 02:07:40 PM »
I'm not sure the future is really that bright. I don't think next year's team looks like it will be any better than this year's.

goldeneagle91114

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 860
Re: The future is bright... Today was dark, really dark
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2017, 02:24:02 PM »
I'm not sure the future is really that bright. I don't think next year's team looks like it will be any better than this year's.

completely agree, i think we are still 2 years away from a tournament birth. However, we can finally see what it is that wojo wants to build, at least offensively. 

nyg

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 7445
Re: The future is bright... Today was dark, really dark
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2017, 02:24:46 PM »
I'm not sure the future is really that bright. I don't think next year's team looks like it will be any better than this year's.

I thought so also, but with the way Luke has been playing I am not sure now.  His last two games have been just brutal and MU was fortunate to win one of them.  I believed if Luke was playing well, MU had a chance at 9-9 in conference, but now it looks like maybe an 8-10.  Heldt is a capable 8 minute backup at this point and you heard Wojo yelling at him to "grab the ball".  His hands are like stone at this point.  So, if Luke is not playing to par and with Heldt in, MU starts to jack up threes.  Live or die.

Next year Froling will start at center and Cain will take JJJ spot.  Hauser at PF with Howard and Cheatham at guards.  Thats a good start with Wilson, Rowsey and Heldt back.  If Theo John, Eke or a potential grad transfer can provide any assistance on the offensive and defensive boards, then MU will be just fine.

Not a coach and don't even fathom what is going on in Wojo's mind, but giving up serious leads of 17, 18, and the like and losing those games in second half must be killing him and the staff.  I said it before and say it again, the defensive aspect of doubling and leaving guys open on threes is hurting, as well as offensive board rebounding.  He needs to bring in a different strategy on defense and hope the new comers can hold onto the ball and block out. 

Very frustrating for all, since MU has given up three losses that should have been wins.  Has to be getting in the players head and this one really hurts. 

GoldenZebra

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 732
Re: The future is bright... Today was dark, really dark
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2017, 02:47:45 PM »
Poor Marcus, guy has been one of the the toughest competitors Ive seen on an MU team recently...

bilsu

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8800
Re: The future is bright... Today was dark, really dark
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2017, 02:53:45 PM »
I'm not sure the future is really that bright. I don't think next year's team looks like it will be any better than this year's.
I saw Froling standing next to Fischer at the DePaul game. He appeared to be taller than Fischer and was definitely wider. As long as he and one of the other
incoming freshmen bigmen can rebound and play defense and I can see us being much better next year.

HutchwasClutch

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2305
Re: The future is bright... Today was dark, really dark
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2017, 03:18:59 PM »
There is no excuse for the meltdown today.  Butler caught MU by the three quarter mark, after trailing by 18.   63 pts and 70% shooting, I don't care who, what, when, where it is, is appallingly bad.  And this is on Wojo.  Soft teams, tough teams - all reflect the coach.  He is clueless how to adjust, utterly clueless, and proven again today.  Holtzmann coached circles around him from halftime on. 

I really thought Wojo would be fine as a coach, he just needed time to get upper Big East level talent into the program.   I was wrong. 

buckchuckler

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 922
Re: The future is bright... Today was dark, really dark
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2017, 03:23:53 PM »
What could the staff have done? They tried to go small, but Butler was quicker and any contact was a whistle. Had they gone zone without bigs, Butler would have had all day to pass around and easier offensive rebounds.

Honestly, as bad as the defense was in the second, the real problem was the offense. We settled for jumpers that were no longer falling. This allowed for Butler to get run-outs and turn up the pressure in transition. We needed to adjust to the refs and start driving, which we did, but too late.

Pretty sure it wasn't.  They gave up 465 points in the second half.  That was a big part of the problem.  And it wasn't the coaching staffs fault.  It never is.  They aren't on the court so they are beyond any sort of implication in this teams failures. 

HutchwasClutch

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2305
Re: The future is bright... Today was dark, really dark
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2017, 03:24:04 PM »
I wonder, did Wojo study how to coach defense under Coach K, or Paul Westhead?   Just go zone all the time, even a crappy coach's team can't screw up a zone too bad.  Not to the tune of 70% defensive FG% for a half.

buckchuckler

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 922
Re: The future is bright... Today was dark, really dark
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2017, 03:29:26 PM »
Tower, I agree with about 99% of the stuff you post on the boards. But come on, only twice this season has Butler scored more than 50 points in a half. if Central Arkansas, Northern Colorado and Norfolk state can do it, our team should be able to do it to.

This wasn't 50 either.  This was 63!  That is more than DePaul scored in the game.  It is only 3 less than Georgetown scored in the game.  That was as pathetic a defensive effort as you are going to see. 

HutchwasClutch

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2305
Re: The future is bright... Today was dark, really dark
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2017, 03:33:46 PM »
I don't think I ever recall an MU team this badly coached on the defensive end - good teams just have their way with us - they get any shot they want, any time they want, and usually it's in the form of layup or dunk.   We're incredibly soft defensively; zero help side defense, stopping the ball are just foreign concepts, mental lapses all over leaving guys open in the paint, or spotted up beyond the three, on and on.   All reflects on horrid coaching. 
« Last Edit: January 16, 2017, 03:35:32 PM by HutchwasClutch »

MattyWarrior

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1650
Re: The future is bright... Today was dark, really dark
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2017, 03:36:13 PM »
I'll never get used to losing, especially like we lost in the second half. The seniors look lost.

tower912

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 23345
Re: The future is bright... Today was dark, really dark
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2017, 03:36:35 PM »
How was the defense in the first half?     They did all of those things you lament in the first half.    Same team, same players, same defensive schemes.    The players didn't show up defensively in the second half.    The same players that played their best half of defense of the season in the first half.     Mental toughness.    Senior leadership.      Offense still scored 39.    So, it is mental toughness at the defensive end.   
« Last Edit: January 16, 2017, 03:39:32 PM by tower912 »
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

HutchwasClutch

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2305
Re: The future is bright... Today was dark, really dark
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2017, 03:38:35 PM »
I'll never get used to losing, especially like we lost in the second half. The seniors look lost.

Really?!  Just the seniors??  No, it was every player.  Which happens when you're coach is being made to look like a fool by the other teams coach.

brewcity77

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 26360
  • Warning-This poster may trigger thin skinned users
    • Cracked Sidewalks
Re: The future is bright... Today was dark, really dark
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2017, 03:39:06 PM »
Pretty sure it wasn't.  They gave up 465 points in the second half.  That was a big part of the problem.  And it wasn't the coaching staffs fault.  It never is.  They aren't on the court so they are beyond any sort of implication in this teams failures.

They gave up those points for two reasons. First, they were missing shots which kept the defense from getting set. Second, the refs were calling a tight game so any contact sent Butler to the line.

If we were making shots, the defense would have been set and we would have had better position so we might not have fouled as much. However if we were also driving, we would have had easier shots from close range, would have also been able to get to the line, and would have been able to compete with Butler at their own game.

The problems may have been ending on the defensive end, but they were starting on the offensive end.
This space reserved for a 2024 National Championship celebration banner.

esotericmindguy

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1952
Re: The future is bright... Today was dark, really dark
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2017, 03:39:55 PM »
Tower, I agree with about 99% of the stuff you post on the boards. But come on, only twice this season has Butler scored more than 50 points in a half. if Central Arkansas, Northern Colorado and Norfolk state can do it, our team should be able to do it to.

Those teams were probably down 30 and didn't foul the last 90 seconds. They scored 6 or 7 at free throw line. Also, the refs called ticky tack sh*t to start the half and they were in bonus with 14:30 to go! The hell you want Wojo to do about Luke grabbing 1 rebound? What does Wojo do about Hauser, Rowsey, Wilson and Howard getting destroyed off the dribble? Or Howard being careless with the ball during the 17-2 run. Want them to go zone? Defensive rebounding is atrocious in man.

Just accept it, they're young and soft on defense. They need to get way stronger to handle the physical teams. Not sure why you and others expect anything different. Just wait until John, Eke and hopefully the transfer from SMU get going. Team is missing toughness and Rim protection. No help on the backside and no rebounding presence. It'll change, give Wojo some time.

 

feedback