Hinkle Hankies

[willie warrior]

No senior leadership.

That could be part of the reason, but wojo and his staff of former players are responsible to instill in the players that leadership. Jjj, Luke and wilson are not his guys, what has wojo et al done to instill that leadership. Probably very little. By the way, isn't rinehart a 5th year senior, but nobody mentions his name under that leadership lacking.
The excuse of lack of senior leadership is getting old and lame
If wilson comes back next year, then he can be the senior whipping boy all by himself.

[brewcity77]

To elaborate, Butler started the second on a 38-18 run. That's when the game was won. We were missing, they were off to the races and driving both to the lane and the line.

Sure, after that we held our own, started driving, and were competitive (and put up enough points to look respectable) but by then it was too late.

[source?]

1. You don't have to be here. It is completely optional.

2. Other things happened during those four years. You probably should acknowledge that.

1. Fair enough. Same goes for anyone who clearly takes no pleasure in watching the team play.

2. I'm still waiting to hear how Wojo is responsible for 2013-14 (can't wait) or how year-over-year and game-over-game improvement is a bad thing. 2.5 years of Wojo and we have a 50/50 shot at the tournament and basically a guaranteed NIT berth if we miss. I don't really know what else needs acknowledgement.

[GGGG]

That could be part of the reason, but wojo and his staff of former players are responsible to instill in the players that leadership. Jjj, Luke and wilson are not his guys, what has wojo et al done to instill that leadership. Probably very little. By the way, isn't rinehart a 5th year senior, but nobody mentions his name under that leadership lacking.
The excuse of lack of senior leadership is getting old and lame
If wilson comes back next year, then he can be the senior whipping boy all by himself.

Rowsey too.

[tower912]

Willie, I include KR in my criticism.  You can say lead, you can teach leadership, but the player has to do it.  Did buzz coach JFB differently than Jamil Wilson?  Why is one an all star and the other a d-leaguer?  The player has to have the head and the heart.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Butler swept us in all four factors. Just barely in the most important one.

eFG%:
MU: 56.9%
BUT: 57%

TO%:
MU: 10.7%
BUT: 6.1%

OR%:
MU: 26.7%
BUT: 33.3%

FTR:
MU: 31%
BUT: 52.6%

Butler's FTR was a little inflated by the fouls at the end, but I really think that was the biggest difference maker. FTR rarely is, but this is a rare exception IMHO

[Class71]

If we had one strong big that could defend the basket we would have won. That is the greatest missing link. Wojo knows what needs to be done he simply is missing one major piece which apparently can not be developed with the folks on staff. I think we have some great shooters and the we can not expect more from our freshman.

There is still time but someone in the center needs to man up if we are to make it to the Dance. Hopefully we can address the power forward issue next year.

[muwarrior69]

Gonna have a rare disagreement with you, brew.    The offense put up 39 in the second half.    Yes, there should have been more drives and fewer 3's.    But 39, with a 16 pt lead at halftime, should be enough.    The problem was on defense.

[/color]

Again it's our underclassmen who show up to play. There still may be a chance to have a good season, but the program is heading in the right direction.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I was in meetings during the game and didn't get to watch - at halftime checked the phone and was sad I was missing it - 15 mins later I checked again...

Anyone have the stat of how we have performed for the first 5-10 mins coming out of half across the season?  Seems like it would not be a favorable view.

[warriorfan 14]

Not surprising. Every time this team builds some momentum they fall flat on their face. Each year Marquette is moving closer and closer to irrelevancy. On selection Sunday we will likely be looking back at the pitt, seton hall, and butler games with pain. So close, yet missing winning players who can get the job done

[willie warrior]

If we had one strong big that could defend the basket we would have won. That is the greatest missing link. Wojo knows what needs to be done he simply is missing one major piece which apparently can not be developed with the folks on staff. I think we have some great shooters and the we can not expect more from our freshman.

There is still time but someone in the center needs to man up if we are to make it to the Dance. Hopefully we can address the power forward issue next year.

Thought wojo worked with bigs at duke. And if we lack big to defend the basket, then that is on Wojo as he has been recruiting for us for 3 years now
His only big has been heldt.

[brewcity77]

Thought wojo worked with bigs at duke. And if we lack big to defend the basket, then that is on Wojo as he has been recruiting for us for 3 years now
His only big has been heldt.

His first recruiting class was Sandy, but he also added Levin, who left when he thought Henry would take his minutes. His second class had Henry and Matt. Next year we add John, Eke, and Froling. He tried to add another big last year and lost out Washington, Young, and Gill who all would have been eligible now. It's just silly to say he's not recruiting bigs.

[Class71]

Thought wojo worked with bigs at duke. And if we lack big to defend the basket, then that is on Wojo as he has been recruiting for us for 3 years now
His only big has been heldt.

When was the last time we had a strong big that could defend? MU has problems recruiting bigs for years. That is why we had switchables in the past.

[GGGG]

When was the last time we had a strong big that could defend?

Chris Otule.

[willie warrior]

His first recruiting class was Sandy, but he also added Levin, who left when he thought Henry would take his minutes. His second class had Henry and Matt. Next year we add John, Eke, and Froling. He tried to add another big last year and lost out Washington, Young, and Gill who all would have been eligible now. It's just silly to say he's not recruiting bigs.

Did not say he was not recruiting bigs. Said it is on him if we do not have any yet. The lack of big defenders seems to be the big complaint here, along with blaming Fischer for our current performance.

[MU82]

That is still the main thing that concerns me about Wojo.  I have been saying that since his first year.

I hated the result, obviously, but as a basketball observer (and a coach myself, albeit at the middle-school level), I really liked Butler's second-half defense. They definitely played our 3-point shooters more "honestly" and we had far fewer open looks.

It took Wojo and his team a long time to realize they had to stop jacking up 3s.

I agree with brew that although it looks like defense was the culprit - and you don't give up 6,000 second-half points without it being at least somewhat the culprit - our offensive failures fed right into our defensive problems. That was doubly true when the refs changed the way they called the game.

I'm one of the bigger Wojo backers on the board, but it would be hard for me to argue that he wasn't out-coached today.

I still think we'll be a bubble team right through the end of the season. We will steal a game or two we are supposed to lose because our shooting will be lights-out ... but we also might lose a game or two we "should" win.

Beyond this season, I still think our future is VERY bright.

Go Warriors!

[Lennys Tap]

As Harry Caray was fond of saying, "The big possum walks late". Our only (semi consistent) big possum on the court is a 5'10" 17 year old freshman. And on the bench? TBD, but our second half performances aren't exactly inspiring.

That said, hope is on the way on the court and Wojo is learning on the job. I'm mostly keeping the faith.

[skianth16]

I swear to God I'll pistol whip the next guy who says "adjustment" without naming specific game tactics and what they'd do differently with the current personnel.

Strong chance you'd never have to pistol whip Wojo at half-time because he doesn't seem to grasp the concept just yet

[MerrittsMustache]

To elaborate, Butler started the second on a 38-18 run. That's when the game was won. We were missing, they were off to the races and driving both to the lane and the line.

Sure, after that we held our own, started driving, and were competitive (and put up enough points to look respectable) but by then it was too late.

MU shot 7-15 during that stretch (46.7% - MU shot 50% in the 1st half). Of the 8 missed FG attempts, MU got the offensive rebound twice and scored once. Butler scored 13 points on the possessions following their 6 defensive rebounds. IOW, they scored every time MU missed...but they also scored 16 points immediately following MU's 7 makes.

The problem was defense.

[GoldenWarrior11]

We have blown a 18-point lead to Butler.  We have blown a 10 point lead to Seton Hall.  We blew a 15 point lead to Pittsburgh. 

We can stress patience and process - and even the fact that our current coaching staff still has yet to have their first full recruiting class as seniors, not aided in any part by the transfer of Sandy Cohen (or Wally Ellenson, or Traci Carter, or Steve Taylor, or John Dawson, or Gabe Levin) - but the reality is, in today's collegiate athletics landscape, if you stay down long enough, it gets harder and harder to get back up.

I'm all for building things the right way, having the right staff in place, having the right student-athletes on the team, etc.  However, if the team does not turn the corner, whether that be this year, next year or the following year (I honestly don't see any situation where a head coach is retained when he does not reach the NCAA Tournament when he has one of the largest basketball budgets in the country), then we are even further away because a new staff (with new vision on players) will come in and restart the process.

It took Tom Crean until his fourth year to return Indiana towards national relevancy.  It took Buzz Williams, arguably, his late-second or third year, to make Virginia Tech nationally relevant.  Tony Bennett got Virginia into the tournament in his third year - after the mess Dave Leitao left behind.  Ed Cooley - third year.  Heck, Steve Lavin took St. Johns to the
tournament in his first year after Norm Roberts didn't do it once in six years. 

Marquette is not any different that any of those programs.  In some cases, we are clearly more prestigious due to resources and history.  Why, then, should our program have more lenient expectations in terms of once again returning to an NCAA tournament? 

Is this an irrational reaction due to one loss?  No - because this is not just one loss.  This is a pattern of repeated defeat against programs that we should beat in order to get into the tournament.  Because of Marquette's struggle, Xavier, Creighton and Butler have all entered the Big East and solidified themselves as the backbone - while Marquette, Georgetown and St. Johns have taken steps back. 

If we want to continue preaching sunshine and rainbows, go right ahead - you have that right.  I'm just saying that when we have lowered our standards to looking respectable against Butler (or Pitt or Seton Hall), then the battle has already been lost.  We should not aim to be competitive against those programs, our goal should be to win every game against programs like that.  I guess we just aren't there anymore.

[Babybluejeans]

We have blown a 18-point lead to Butler.  We have blown a 10 point lead to Seton Hall.  We blew a 15 point lead to Pittsburgh. 

We can stress patience and process - and even the fact that our current coaching staff still has yet to have their first full recruiting class as seniors, not aided in any part by the transfer of Sandy Cohen (or Wally Ellenson, or Traci Carter, or Steve Taylor, or John Dawson, or Gabe Levin) - but the reality is, in today's collegiate athletics landscape, if you stay down long enough, it gets harder and harder to get back up.

I'm all for building things the right way, having the right staff in place, having the right student-athletes on the team, etc.  However, if the team does not turn the corner, whether that be this year, next year or the following year (I honestly don't see any situation where a head coach is retained when he does not reach the NCAA Tournament when he has one of the largest basketball budgets in the country), then we are even further away because a new staff (with new vision on players) will come in and restart the process.

It took Tom Crean until his fourth year to return Indiana towards national relevancy.  It took Buzz Williams, arguably, his late-second or third year, to make Virginia Tech nationally relevant.  Tony Bennett got Virginia into the tournament in his third year - after the mess Dave Leitao left behind.  Ed Cooley - third year.  Heck, Steve Lavin took St. Johns to the
tournament in his first year after Norm Roberts didn't do it once in six years. 

Marquette is not any different that any of those programs.  In some cases, we are clearly more prestigious due to resources and history.  Why, then, should our program have more lenient expectations in terms of once again returning to an NCAA tournament? 

Is this an irrational reaction due to one loss?  No - because this is not just one loss.  This is a pattern of repeated defeat against programs that we should beat in order to get into the tournament.  Because of Marquette's struggle, Xavier, Creighton and Butler have all entered the Big East and solidified themselves as the backbone - while Marquette, Georgetown and St. Johns have taken steps back. 

If we want to continue preaching sunshine and rainbows, go right ahead - you have that right.  I'm just saying that when we have lowered our standards to looking respectable against Butler (or Pitt or Seton Hall), then the battle has already been lost.  We should not aim to be competitive against those programs, our goal should be to win every game against programs like that.  I guess we just aren't there anymore.

It's not that we aren't there anymore it's that we aren't there yet. The rebuild is still ongoing. Basically all of our upperclassmen, the guys Wojo inherited, don't have it. This is a year that we were going to be more competitive than the previous two because our younger players are developing--and we are.

I'm not even a Wojo apologist but this kind of fatalism is just silly. Getting back to the point you speak of--the kind of consistent success we enjoyed for about a decade--takes time to (re)build. Comparisons are odious.

[mu03eng]

Posted this to twitter, and I think it's relevant to the discussion. Wojo is favoring his guys a lot in minutes distribution, but there is only so much he can do at some positions.

Buzz and the Henry Ellenson recruitment left us at a serious disadvantage this season for being a veteran team. Talent is there, as the season progresses they will pull it together, keep the faith.

[frozena pizza]

Why didn't we play some zone in the second half when they were basically running layup drills on us?  I know Wojo is not a huge fan but we saw it last year and sporadically this year.  That at least allows us to defend the paint a bit more and protect the guys in foul trouble.  Yes, it exposes us on the glass but we couldn't have done much worse in that department. 

[Class71]

Chris Otule.

This response should tell you something about our ability to recruit bigs.

[HoopsterBC]

Why didn't we play some zone in the second half when they were basically running layup drills on us?  I know Wojo is not a huge fan but we saw it last year and sporadically this year.  That at least allows us to defend the paint a bit more and protect the guys in foul trouble.  Yes, it exposes us on the glass but we couldn't have done much worse in that department.

It is hard for me to believe that you would not change to a tight 2-1-2 zone and stop the lay-up drill.  If they make all there 3's fine, they will not miss bunny lay-ups
which they were getting.  MU players are not quick enough to stop that.   Hauser, Reinhardt, and Howard for sure.  JJJ as well, not tough enough.  63 points is ridiculous.
Something.  Same as Pitt game.