NBA '17

[Dr. Blackheart]

Bucks 4-0 since Bledsoe suited up. Trade is playing short term dividends at least.

Great trade.

[cheebs09]

Great trade.

Bledsoe has been fun to watch. He's really helped the second line by pushing Brogdon to the bench. That's been huge for the Bucks, as well as John Henson being very productive.

[GGGG]

I am willing to say that I was very wrong about the Kyrie trade. Boston looks like they got the much better end of that deal. I was at least right about the Bulls trade being a terrible one. 

[wadesworld]

I am willing to say that I was very wrong about the Kyrie trade. Boston looks like they got the much better end of that deal. I was at least right about the Bulls trade being a terrible one.

While I thought the C's gave up a lot of talent, I still liked the trade for a number of reasons.  One is that they got the best player in the deal in Kyrie.  Two is that it gets them out of having to decide whether they want to pay a hobbled, 5'8" score first point guard who can't guard anybody max money or else see him walk for nothing this upcoming offseason.  And three I thought the Nets would be better than most people gave them a chance to be (not a Playoff team, but also not a guaranteed top 3 pick).  In what is a very strong draft at the very top but very weak after that, that pick doesn't seem as valuable as people thought it would be.

And the biggest reason I liked it for the C's was they didn't have to give up Brown or Tatum.  I loved their potential going into the season.  Turns out that they are much closer to their potential than anybody thought they would be.  They are studs and Jae was just going to take minutes from them but isn't as good as them.

But I didn't think it would be THIS good for them.  The C's are going to be scary if Hayward comes back and is the same player he was pre-injury.

[brewcity77]

I am willing to say that I was very wrong about the Kyrie trade. Boston looks like they got the much better end of that deal. I was at least right about the Bulls trade being a terrible one.

Boston definitely better off in the moment. I'll withhold total judgment until we see what the pick ends up being, though the Nets being better than in recent years does seem to further tilt it in Boston's favor.

[MerrittsMustache]

For all the trades, drafts and signings that Danny Ainge has made in Boston, his best move as GM was hiring Brad Stevens. He's already one of the top coaches in the NBA and he's only 41. He should be in Boston for a LONG time. 

All that said, I still think Cleveland will add something and LeBron wins the East again this year.

[GB Warrior]

Bledsoe has been fun to watch. He's really helped the second line by pushing Brogdon to the bench. That's been huge for the Bucks, as well as John Henson being very productive.

Not to mention that it seems to have liberated Middleton.

Bledsoe hasn't played a "great" game yet, but he made some big plays down the stretch last night. Good to see.

[Jockey]

I am willing to say that I was very wrong about the Kyrie trade. Boston looks like they got the much better end of that deal. I was at least right about the Bulls trade being a terrible one.

I agree. So far Boston is way ahead. We'll see what happens when IT returns.


I disagree on the Butler trade. The best player on a terrible team is almost always overrated. Butler has not been very good this year. He should get somewhat better, but will never do what he did in Chicago.

Markkanen will be pretty good, Dunn will be OK and we don't know what the ceiling is for LaVine (my guess is a good scorer, but not a guy who can lead a team to the playoffs).

So I don't really see where Minny got an edge unless Jimmy becomes the leader of the team as it gets good. I don't know if that happens. I don't see Butler ever being an All-Star again.

[Silkk the Shaka]

I agree. So far Boston is way ahead. We'll see what happens when IT returns.


I disagree on the Butler trade. The best player on a terrible team is almost always overrated. Butler has not been very good this year. He should get somewhat better, but will never do what he did in Chicago.

Markkanen will be pretty good, Dunn will be OK and we don't know what the ceiling is for LaVine (my guess is a good scorer, but not a guy who can lead a team to the playoffs).

So I don't really see where Minny got an edge unless Jimmy becomes the leader of the team as it gets good. I don't know if that happens. I don't see Butler ever being an All-Star again.

False premise. Butler was an excellent player on a mediocre team. The two players the Bulls got in return were mediocre players on a horrible team.

[MerrittsMustache]

I agree. So far Boston is way ahead. We'll see what happens when IT returns.


I disagree on the Butler trade. The best player on a terrible team is almost always overrated. Butler has not been very good this year. He should get somewhat better, but will never do what he did in Chicago.

Markkanen will be pretty good, Dunn will be OK and we don't know what the ceiling is for LaVine (my guess is a good scorer, but not a guy who can lead a team to the playoffs).

So I don't really see where Minny got an edge unless Jimmy becomes the leader of the team as it gets good. I don't know if that happens. I don't see Butler ever being an All-Star again.

Jimmy Butler was the best player on a 50-win team in 2014-15. He was the best player on a .500 team the last couple seasons. That's very different than putting up empty numbers on a team that wins 25-30 games.

Butler's numbers are down this season because 1) he's not shooting very well and 2) he doesn't have to be the man offensively, which means he doesn't shoot as much and he's not getting to the line as much. He might never be an All-Star again but the Wolves are significantly better with him on the roster.

[Jockey]

False premise. Butler was an excellent player on a mediocre team. The two players the Bulls got in return were mediocre players on a horrible team.

Win Shares this season from recent Bulls:

Taj Gibson  1.0
Tony Snell   1.0
Etwaun Moore  0.8
Jimmy Butler  0.8
Doug McDermott  0.7

When it comes to shooting the ball, Jimmy is much, much worse than any of these guys.  29% from 3; 39% overall. Those are terrible numbers no matter how you want to spin it.

Defensively (I don't think D stats are included in Win Shares), Jimmy is probably in the same category with Taj, Snell, and Moore .

Simply put, Jimmy was a star because he dominated the ball on a bad team. What he really is - is what he is now. A decent NBA player

[MerrittsMustache]

Win Shares this season from recent Bulls:

Taj Gibson  1.0
Tony Snell   1.0
Etwaun Moore  0.8
Jimmy Butler  0.8
Doug McDermott  0.7

When it comes to shooting the ball, Jimmy is much, much worse than any of these guys.  29% from 3; 39% overall. Those are terrible numbers no matter how you want to spin it.

Defensively (I don't think D stats are included in Win Shares), Jimmy is probably in the same category with Taj, Snell, and Moore .

Simply put, Jimmy was a star because he dominated the ball on a bad team. What he really is - is what he is now. A decent NBA player

So when Jimmy went for 20-6-4, slashed .462/.378/.834, TS% of .583 (1st on the team), accounted for 11.2 WS and was only 5th on a 50-win team in Usage %, was he just a guy who dominated the ball on a bad team?

[Dr. Blackheart]

Cash considerations...

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/jordan-bell-strong-game-vs-170041792.html

[StillAWarrior]

I know some people on here really don't like LBJ (I'm looking at you, Wades), but in many ways he is the epitome of what an athlete can be in the community.  Here's the latest.

I know he's got an enormous ego that needs constant feeding.  I'm a fan, but even I find him off-putting at times.  But man, he's making a difference in Akron.

[Pakuni]

Win Shares this season from recent Bulls:

Taj Gibson  1.0
Tony Snell   1.0
Etwaun Moore  0.8
Jimmy Butler  0.8
Doug McDermott  0.7

Jimmy's current WS is 1.4.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/butleji01/gamelog/2018/

[wadesworld]

Over 25% of the way into the season and the Pacers have a better record than the Thunder. Oladipo is averaging 23, 5, and 4 and Sabonis is averaging 13, 9, and 2 and both will be around for the Pacers for a while. Thunder are sitting at the bottom of their division while Paul George averages 21, 6, and 3 and will be around for another 4 months and then he gowne.

Liked the trade for the Pacers when it happened. Like it more and more every day.

[MU82]

Over 25% of the way into the season and the Pacers have a better record than the Thunder. Oladipo is averaging 23, 5, and 4 and Sabonis is averaging 13, 9, and 2 and both will be around for the Pacers for a while. Thunder are sitting at the bottom of their division while Paul George averages 21, 6, and 3 and will be around for another 4 months and then he gowne.

Liked the trade for the Pacers when it happened. Like it more and more every day.

So far, that was a very good call by you, wades. Nicely done.

[MUBurrow]

So far, that was a very good call by you, wades. Nicely done.

Yep, both sides of your argument seem to be bearing out. Oladipo is playing very well, and the Thunder...aren't.*

*Caveat that I think adding Melo makes it much harder to judge the PG-13 deal, as Melo is eating up a lot of on-ball opportunities that otherwise might have gone to George, and made it easier for him to find his role by now. But either way, the early results aren't good.

[MUBurrow]

https://deadspin.com/tom-thibodeau-is-destruction-1821265024

Really great article by Burneko on deadspin today covering a lot of the ground discussed on scoop re Thibs.

[Plaque Lives Matter!]

https://deadspin.com/tom-thibodeau-is-destruction-1821265024

Really great article by Burneko on deadspin today covering a lot of the ground discussed on scoop re Thibs.

Really interesting about how he revolutionized defense. As a Bulls fan though I know all too well the wear and tear that playing for him consists of. He does not have an off switch, which resulted in 3 of the starters limping down the court during the first round of the playoffs.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Hey Bulls - Stop winning games. Please and thank you.

[wadesworld]

I would give a lot to see the Bucks get Trae Young.

[GGGG]

The Bucks / Cavs game tonight was very entertaining.  Great crowd.  Great players hitting shots.  Really a showcase for the NBA.

[4everwarriors]

Kan’t tell if this is one of them things ewe say , butt don’t meen orr knot, hey?

[jesmu84]

https://twitter.com/AndyGlockner/status/942983230663168000