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Marquette vs

NC State

Date/Time: Mar 29, 2024, 6:09 pm
TV: CBS
Schedule for 2023-24
Colorado
77

Poll

What will it take to convince you about Wojo as a coach?

If he wins more games this season than last year with Henry Ellenson
19 (10.5%)
If he gets us back to the NCAA this season
85 (47%)
If he earns multiple (3+) NCAA bids
53 (29.3%)
If he matches the number of consecutive NCAA bids (5) under Buzz Williams
9 (5%)
If he advances far into the NCAA tournament (Elite Eight/Final Four)
15 (8.3%)

Total Members Voted: 180

Voting closed: November 07, 2016, 08:54:44 AM

Author Topic: Poll: When will you be convinced about Wojo?  (Read 15051 times)

Marcus92

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Poll: When will you be convinced about Wojo?
« on: October 28, 2016, 09:54:44 AM »
Whenever posters are talking about the state of the program, there almost always seems to be a caveat expressing doubt about Wojo's ability as a coach.

So what will it take to win you over? Having just five poll options doesn't allow for every possible point of view — but hopefully one of them covers your outlook reasonably well.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2016, 03:35:07 PM by Marcus92 »
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Galway Eagle

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Re: Poll: When you you be convinced about Wojo?
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2016, 09:58:36 AM »
I vote get us back with this team. I won't be thoroughly convinced till he reaches roughly crean (minus 2003) That'll show consistency and that it's just a matter of time till he catches the right matchup in the tournament or has the right group
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Re: Poll: When you you be convinced about Wojo?
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2016, 10:00:07 AM »
Whenever posters are talking about the state of the program, there almost always seems to be a caveat expressing doubt about Wojo's ability as a coach.

So what will it take to win you over? Having just five poll options doesn't allow for every possible point of view — but hopefully one of them covers your outlook reasonably well.

For me it is when he achieves the goal of the program - which I interpret as competing for a NCAA tourney bid every year. 

bilsu

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Re: Poll: When you you be convinced about Wojo?
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2016, 10:00:33 AM »
I really think he needs an NCAA bid this season, because if this team is not good enough to make it this year it is not likely to make it next year.

Marcus92

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Re: Poll: When you you be convinced about Wojo?
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2016, 10:02:55 AM »
For me it is when he achieves the goal of the program - which I interpret as competing for a NCAA tourney bid every year.

That would be another good poll option: "If he competes for a NCAA bid every year." Hopefully "If he earns multiple (3+) NCAA bids" is reasonably close to this idea.
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#UnleashSean

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Re: Poll: When you you be convinced about Wojo?
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2016, 10:25:46 AM »
I voted the only logical option. 3+ tournaments....  In a row.  We want a hugely successful program.  Nothing short of a bid every year can suffice that.

Marcus92

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Re: Poll: When you you be convinced about Wojo?
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2016, 10:56:52 AM »
I voted the only logical option. 3+ tournaments....  In a row.  We want a hugely successful program.  Nothing short of a bid every year can suffice that.

Keep in mind, there's a difference between asking "What would it take to convince you that Wojo is the right coach for Marquette?" and "What's your standard for success for the Marquette basketball program?"

For some, getting back to NCAA this year would make them believe that Wojo has the skill and ability needed to succeed at MU — especially after losing the team's best player to the NBA, competing in an even tougher Big East, and potentially managing a 10-player rotation.

That doesn't mean, however, that they'd be satisfied with a single NCAA bid.
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MerrittsMustache

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Re: Poll: When you you be convinced about Wojo?
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2016, 11:19:24 AM »
On the macro level, I want MU to be a perennial NCAA Tournament team who is still on the bubble and getting an NIT invite in "down" years.

On the micro level, I want to see Wojo's teams consistently win the games that they're supposed to win and steal a few games against more talented competition (with more tenured coaches).

tower912

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Re: Poll: When you you be convinced about Wojo?
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2016, 11:21:12 AM »
In baseball, they have the WAR statistic.   It isn't nearly as quantifiable for coaching college basketball.   However, we have all seen instances where we thought a coach's move made a difference, good or bad, in the game.   When I start seeing evidence on the floor that Wojo is outcoaching the other coach, making moves that force the other team to adjust, moves the other coach has to adjust to, or best, moves that the other coach doesn't have a good answer to. 
     I recognize/accept that the first year doesn't really count due to lack of bodies and options.   I recognize/accept that last year's team was the youngest any of us can remember.   I've seen that he can recruit and teach.   But I haven't yet seen any magic/alchemy, an ability to make a team better than the sum of its parts.   I haven't seen that he is ready to step out of the Duke shadow and do something truly creative.  I haven't seen that he can outcoach the opposing coach. 

But I haven't given up on him by any means.    But he needs to grow as a coach.   When we can start saying "Wojo's coaching won that game,"  I will be convinced.   
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Spotcheck Billy

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Re: Poll: When you you be convinced about Wojo?
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2016, 11:32:22 AM »
When he gets offered the HC job at Duke.

dw3dw3dw3

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Re: Poll: When you you be convinced about Wojo?
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2016, 11:33:34 AM »
In baseball, they have the WAR statistic.   It isn't nearly as quantifiable for coaching college basketball.   However, we have all seen instances where we thought a coach's move made a difference, good or bad, in the game.   When I start seeing evidence on the floor that Wojo is outcoaching the other coach, making moves that force the other team to adjust, moves the other coach has to adjust to, or best, moves that the other coach doesn't have a good answer to. 
     I recognize/accept that the first year doesn't really count due to lack of bodies and options.   I recognize/accept that last year's team was the youngest any of us can remember.   I've seen that he can recruit and teach.   But I haven't yet seen any magic/alchemy, an ability to make a team better than the sum of its parts.   I haven't seen that he is ready to step out of the Duke shadow and do something truly creative.  I haven't seen that he can outcoach the opposing coach. 

But I haven't given up on him by any means.    But he needs to grow as a coach.   When we can start saying "Wojo's coaching won that game,"  I will be convinced.   
This is spot on and ever so clear with what our rivals to the west did under the grinch.  Hated watching them, but damn he could coach and win with non-exceptional talent. Not expecting that level from Wojo, but with the resources we put towards recruiting and basketball in general, we should be in the tourney every year once this rebuild is over.  It shouldn't take a great coach to get this group to the NCAAs barring injury to Luke. The last 4 teams in every year are not good at all and full of disappointment themselves.
 
 

brewcity77

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Re: Poll: When you you be convinced about Wojo?
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2016, 12:04:22 PM »
There are so many different factors to coaching. If Wojo never becomes a great game coach but can recruit talent and develop players to the level that we are going to the tourney every year with the occasional deep run, I'd be happy with that. Obviously you always want the next guy who can do it all (Coach K comes to mind currently) but just about every coach has their flaws. Even Hall of Famers like Bo, Calipari, and Roy have their flaws.

This is a results based business, so I voted for the 3+ tournaments option. At a program like ours, the job is to consistently give yourself a chance in March. Winning the league, tourney titles, and deep NCAA runs are all great icing on the cake, but the goal should be to regularly (at least 75% of the time) be playing in the Tournament. Do that and I'll be happy with where we're at, even if our ultimate dreams will always be bigger.
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Herman Cain

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Re: Poll: When will you be convinced about Wojo?
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2016, 04:26:04 PM »
My standard for Wojo is low because there are two parts of coaching, recruiting and game coaching. I selected win more than last year. If he does that, it means has has out coached a number of very strong coaches and will demonstrate he can actually compete at the  level we want to see the program;, which is getting to the tournament and being viable for a decent run. Wojo has demonstrated he can recruit. I gave him plenty of kudos for that during recruiting season.

Until then I am from Missouri on the matter.
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TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Poll: When will you be convinced about Wojo?
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2016, 04:31:44 PM »
My standard for Wojo is low because there are two parts of coaching, recruiting and game coaching. I selected win more than last year. If he does that, it means has has out coached a number of very strong coaches and will demonstrate he can actually compete at the  level we want to see the program;, which is getting to the tournament and being viable for a decent run. Wojo has demonstrated he can recruit. I gave him plenty of kudos for that during recruiting season.

Until then I am from Missouri on the matter.

I'm curious what makes you think wojo is a bad in game coach. He's not  Brad Stevens by any means but I saw some positives from him last season. The Georgetown ending was a great play call that sticks out. We also saw team improvement over the season. JJJ finally broke out after years of mediocrity.

I'm not sold on wojo as game coach yet but I'm seeing positive signs. I don't see anything that would lead me to believe he is a dud.
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dgies9156

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Re: Poll: When will you be convinced about Wojo?
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2016, 11:29:46 PM »
I view it as a Three Step process:

  1) Get us back to relevance. This means we have winning records and are at the threshold of NCAA berths. He's there now. This is the bronze standard and call it what it is, the Deane Award. We don't hire coaches at Marquette to make us relevant in basketball. This is where Dayton is most of the time. We are not Dayton!

  2) Get us in the tournament. I'm hoping this year is the year. If it is not, it damn well better be next year. This is the silver standard and the Buzz Award. This is where the Hillbilly was. Lots of us who matriculated after 1982 think this is the best we can do. Those of us whose diploma has dates of from 1965 to 1978 think this is a stepping stone.

  3) Make us a consistent Top 10 or Top 15 team with a legitimate shot at the national title. This is the Gold Standard to which we aspire at MU. This is when I will be convinced about Wojo. We're beginning to show signs of wanting to be here, but this takes probably five to seven years. This is the McGuire goal and we're a long way off.

Goose

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Re: Poll: When will you be convinced about Wojo?
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2016, 03:37:40 AM »
Dgies

I like number three. Said on here many times that Xavier was our whipping boy for decades and now I want their program. It can be done and fingers crossed it happens.

rocket surgeon

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Re: Poll: When will you be convinced about Wojo?
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2016, 07:34:27 AM »
i believe we have to take this one step at a time.  if one voted #1-that's very reasonable.  #2-also very reasonable.  now we get into the "wtf zone" with #'s 3-4 and at minimum, a 3-5 year plan, which is fine, but what if he achieves #5(elite 8 and/or final 4) within the next 2 years, then has a little blip in the screen, does he go all the way back to jail without passing "GO"?

    sure we can work out all kinds of scenarios here in order to feel more comfortable about wojo, but it's more complicated than that.  he gets a one and done or goes to the elite 8 or better, then 3 players are involved in some notre dame esque activities-RUH-ROH, 'ey?  or he get's us back to a bubble thing and just misses because the team ahead of us knocks off a top 5'er on a last second shot...but we get a twitter shot of wojo staying late after a practice helping out our walk-ons with their calculus assignments then on his way home helps a homeless lady cross the street and gives her a C-note.  life is like a box of....

i understand it's a poll and i'm not trying to be more than 90 degrees off here, but let's take a breath.  it seemed pretty obvious that the upper floors of the jesuit residence told wojo he must be someone whom he may not be as evidenced by his entrance onto madness floor-that was not the real wojo.  wojo is a slap the floor, get in your face, mean-muggin,  win one for the program, then do it again.  let wojo be wojo. don't give us those wet finger in the wind, what do people want to see out of our coach thing aside from making us relevant, competitive and good
     
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i liked tower's response-show us he can out coach the others, see something in a player everyone else has missed, get something out of a player others could not and all that other schmit will take care of itself.  does he need some real W's-absolutely! does he need to get us back to the dance? absolutely! but my fear is that we could have someone here yet who is special, not realize it, and then cut him short. kinda like one rick m (rip). 

give us a ball team that makes us relevant again, fun to watch, we got screwed when we lose type of team.  i've got to go with #'s 1 & 2, then build upon that and it will all take care of itself.  if we treat him like schmit now and then he has a nice little run, guess what?  he gone laughing all the way to the bank and take that run and more to another school. never, ever burn a bridge

  NCAA hoops has become one tough nut-wojo is a winner, came from a winner and knows how to win

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Class71

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Re: Poll: When will you be convinced about Wojo?
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2016, 01:42:58 PM »
If this poll reflects the sense of most fans Wojo needs a bid this year or next latest. Otherwise ... the tar, feathers and rail may begin to appear.
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bilsu

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Re: Poll: When will you be convinced about Wojo?
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2016, 04:35:03 PM »
I'm curious what makes you think wojo is a bad in game coach. He's not  Brad Stevens by any means but I saw some positives from him last season. The Georgetown ending was a great play call that sticks out. We also saw team improvement over the season. JJJ finally broke out after years of mediocrity.

I'm not sold on wojo as game coach yet but I'm seeing positive signs. I don't see anything that would lead me to believe he is a dud.
That it why it is hard to judge a coach's game decisions. The Georgetown play you site was not the play designed by Wojo. Traci decided to throw the full court pass to Fischer on his own. It worked, but easily could not of. It certainly would not of been Wojo's fault if Traci overthrew Fischer, but a lot of posters here would of been saying Wojo cannot coach. To me you really cannot tell, if Wojo is a good game coach, until he has a team of experienced players. A coach can never really count on what freshmen are going to do in a game.

Herman Cain

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Re: Poll: When will you be convinced about Wojo?
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2016, 06:49:27 PM »
I'm curious what makes you think wojo is a bad in game coach. He's not  Brad Stevens by any means but I saw some positives from him last season. The Georgetown ending was a great play call that sticks out. We also saw team improvement over the season. JJJ finally broke out after years of mediocrity.

I'm not sold on wojo as game coach yet but I'm seeing positive signs. I don't see anything that would lead me to believe he is a dud.
My observation is that the players don't feel he has their back. Lack of trust equates to lack of confidence.  Players don't play to their natural capabilities as a result. Unfortunately, I don't believe he will ever change his style.
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jesmu84

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Re: Poll: When will you be convinced about Wojo?
« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2016, 07:12:19 PM »
My observation is that the players don't feel he has their back. Lack of trust equates to lack of confidence.  Players don't play to their natural capabilities as a result. Unfortunately, I don't believe he will ever change his style.

Please enlighten us as to how you made these "observations" and what they are.

Also, don't play to their natural abilities? So JJJ improving and Haanif having a good freshman year (among other examples) was them not playing to their natural abilities?

WarriorFan

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Re: Poll: When will you be convinced about Wojo?
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2016, 09:33:37 PM »
Season-long top 20 and NCAA tournament every year.
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Marcus92

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Re: Poll: When will you be convinced about Wojo?
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2016, 02:53:35 AM »
Season-long top 20 and NCAA tournament every year.

Every year? There are Hall of Fame coaches — including Mike Krzyzewski (no NCAA bid in 1994-95), Roy Williams (no NCAA bid in 2009-10), Jim Boeheim (no NCAA bid for two straight seasons, in 2006-07 and 2007-08) and John Calipari (no NCAA bid in 2012-13) — who don't meet that standard.
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TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Poll: When will you be convinced about Wojo?
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2016, 03:43:50 AM »
That it why it is hard to judge a coach's game decisions. The Georgetown play you site was not the play designed by Wojo. Traci decided to throw the full court pass to Fischer on his own. It worked, but easily could not of. It certainly would not of been Wojo's fault if Traci overthrew Fischer, but a lot of posters here would of been saying Wojo cannot coach. To me you really cannot tell, if Wojo is a good game coach, until he has a team of experienced players. A coach can never really count on what freshmen are going to do in a game.

It was the play. Like every good inbound play, there are multiple options that can be run depending on the defense. Going to Luke wasn't the first option but it was the play that was run.
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TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Poll: When will you be convinced about Wojo?
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2016, 03:44:54 AM »
My observation is that the players don't feel he has their back. Lack of trust equates to lack of confidence.  Players don't play to their natural capabilities as a result. Unfortunately, I don't believe he will ever change his style.

I would check your sources.
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