Football Ratings Are Down

[brewcity77]

Heisy, plain and simple, the ONLY way to stop this is for the NFL to cease and desist playing the anthem. Playing the anthem is a political statement. Kaepernick's actions are simply a response to the NFL's own political statement.

[muwarrior69]

Kaepernick has every right to protest. Perhaps every player should take a knee during the anthem and say a prayer to heal our nation. Now that would be a statement.

[Tugg Speedman]

Kaepernick has every right to protest. Perhaps every player should take a knee during the anthem and say a prayer to heal our nation. Now that would be a statement.

Are you allowed to make political protests to the customers to your employer?

[brewcity77]

Are you allowed to make political protests to the customers to your employer?

If your employer goes out of their way to make a political statement, you have the choice if you want to participate in that statement. If your company endorses a politician, they can't fire you if you don't vote for that politician.

[Tugg Speedman]

There are anecdotes and screeds from right-wing websites. That's hardly evidence.
Anecdote is not singular for data.

That's irrelevant, and a claim no one is making.

Again, you've failed to present any empirical data that the protests have led to a notable decline in ratings.
Suggesting they should do something because "people are upset" is nonsense. People get upset for all sorts of stupid reasons.
Ultimately, your argument comes down to believing that TV ratings are in decline across the board because of 'X,' except for the NFL, where TV ratings are in decline because of 'Y.'
That makes sense how?

I learned for the politics page that when you "just decide" something nothing will ever get you to change your mind ... ever.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2016/09/23/nfls-tv-ratings-continue-slide-amidst-national-anthem-protests/#5b3ff0394591

[brewcity77]

I notice that despite it being repeated multiple times, you refuse to acknowledge that the NFL playing the anthem is in and of itself a political statement, Heisy.

[Tugg Speedman]

If your employer goes out of their way to make a political statement, you have the choice if you want to participate in that statement. If your company endorses a politician, they can't fire you if you don't vote for that politician.

That is not what this is.

This is an employee using his employers resources to make a personal political statement to the customers of his employers firm.

[GGGG]

That is not what this is.

This is an employee using his employers resources to make a personal political statement to the customers of his employers firm.

And the employer doesn't mind.

[Tugg Speedman]

I notice that despite it being repeated multiple times, you refuse to acknowledge that the NFL playing the anthem is in and of itself a political statement, Heisy.

Go back a few pages ago, I said I did not understand why the antehm was such a big deal and that I was ok with doing away with it.

To me this is a rogue employee hurting his employer's product and they are paralyzed to stop it.

[Tugg Speedman]

And the employer doesn't mind.

But in this case the employer does seem to mind and would prefer it not to happen.  To say otherwise is you again electing to not accept realities that you don't agree with.

[GGGG]

But in this case the employer does seem to mind and would prefer it not to happen.  To say otherwise is you again electing to not accept realities that you don't agree with.

I have no idea if they mind or not.  Either way, they aren't doing anything about it.

[Tugg Speedman]

To me this is an issue for the business school.  How do you deal with a high profile employee using your company as a soapbox to make political statements to your customers to the determinant of your company's reputation and/or value.

Others are treating this as an issue for the political science classes about social justice and censorship.

I frankly don't care what Kaepernick protests about.  What I find interesting is the polls (above)clearly say the customers do not like it and the employers are paralyzed to do anything about it.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Yet the NFL fined this.

[brewcity77]

Go back a few pages ago, I said I did not understand why the antehm was such a big deal and that I was ok with doing away with it.

To me this is a rogue employee hurting his employer's product and they are paralyzed to stop it.

They aren't paralyzed. They can stop playing the anthem and end his protest at any time. The NFL chooses not to. This is on them, not him. As long as they choose to continue their political statements, he is free to continue his.

[Tugg Speedman]

They aren't paralyzed. They can stop playing the anthem and end his protest at any time. The NFL chooses not to. This is on them, not him. As long as they choose to continue their political statements, he is free to continue his.

Their (the NFL) political statement (National Anthem) does not bother their customers.  His (Kaepernick) political statement does bother their customers.

[brewcity77]

Their (the NFL) political statement (National Anthem) does not bother their customers.  His (Kaepernick) political statement does bother their customers.

You act like they are two different things. They are not. Without the former, the latter does not exist.

Also, as long as the latter exists, the former apparently does bother their customers.

[rocket surgeon]

Who's paying the bills?  And not the buffalo ones..and when does this nonsense stop?  When cops(black, white and Hispanic) stop shooting african Americans?  When cops stop shooting Caucasians?  What is the magic that will cause them to go, there, our job is done here?  Just in case anyone is confused about this, there are times when deadly force is justified and these protests seem to evolve regardless. 

     Anyone expressing themselves about the bathrooms?  What if the people in North Carolina lay down or take a knee in front of some of these "whatever" bathrooms? 

     And as long as we are at it, free da nipple, 'ey?

[Pakuni]

I learned for the politics page that when you "just decide" something nothing will ever get you to change your mind ... ever.

Your "evidence" that people are not watching because of Colin Kaepernick is an online survey (i.e. virtually worthless) conducted after the season started in which people claim what they would do  - not what they are doing - if more players join Kaepernick.

Not only does the survey not say what you claim it does, the method in which it was conducted and the manner in which it was asked make is less credible than one of your Scoop polls.

In the meantime, you completely fail to address why you believe the NFL's rating drop is different than ratings drops across the board.

[bma77]

Virtually worthless would imply not worth even doing.  Even if 75% of that survey is wrong, that would still imply 11% of people are not watching because of the protests. That is significant. 

In my view, people watch sports because it takes them away from other stuff.  When other stuff creeps into their sports, they are not happy. They want to watch football. 

[forgetful]

Virtually worthless would imply not worth even doing.  Even if 75% of that survey is wrong, that would still imply 11% of people are not watching because of the protests. That is significant. 

In my view, people watch sports because it takes them away from other stuff.  When other stuff creeps into their sports, they are not happy. They want to watch football.

So they can overlook wife beatings, drug arrests, debilitating brain injuries etc., and just ignore them so it doesn't bother their football watching.  But a guy kneels during the anthem (when most aren't even watching to begin with) and it is so bothersome it disrupts their happy time.  Illogical to believe that is the underlying reason for them being upset and equally illogical that they are stopping watching football because of it.

Polls are all words, the people are still turning in.  The games in primetime this year have been terrible, and in one case terrible and directly opposite the most watched presidential debate in recent history. 

[Pakuni]

Virtually worthless would imply not worth even doing.  Even if 75% of that survey is wrong, that would still imply 11% of people are not watching because of the protests. That is significant. 

Except this is not what the poll says.
It says what these people say they will do - again, not what they are doing - at some unstated point in the future. When? Week 3? Week 8? Week 15? Doesn't say.
Also, them not watching is conditioned upon whether other players "follow Kaepernick's lead and begin kneeling." Which players? How many other players? Again, doesn't say. What we do know is that very few other players - what 3-5 in all? - are following his lead.

What we do know is this:
- ratings were down in week 1, before this poll as taken, meaning what these 44 percent of people are claiming they would do in the future is irrelevant to what happened in week 1 - which is when Jesse started this thread to blame Kaepernick.
- what these people are claiming they will do - again, not actually doing - \is dependent on what players other than Kaepernick do.

Look, I have no doubt some people are not watching because they're made about Kaepernick. I also have no doubt that number is so tiny it would hardly register in the ratings.

In my view, people watch sports because it takes them away from other stuff.  When other stuff creeps into their sports, they are not happy. They want to watch football.

When has "other stuff" not crept into sports? Seriously ... issues of race, social justice, gender, labor rights, politics, crime, etc., have been essential elements of the sports discussion pretty much forever.
Perhaps you've heard of Muhammad Ali and Jackie Robinson?
This is nothing new.

[Tugg Speedman]

So they can overlook wife beatings, drug arrests, debilitating brain injuries etc., and just ignore them so it doesn't bother their football watching.  But a guy kneels during the anthem (when most aren't even watching to begin with) and it is so bothersome it disrupts their happy time.  Illogical to believe that is the underlying reason for them being upset and equally illogical that they are stopping watching football because of it.

Polls are all words, the people are still turning in.  The games in primetime this year have been terrible, and in one case terrible and directly opposite the most watched presidential debate in recent history.

I guess you have not read the first 9 pages.  They are NOT tuning in as expected.   Fans are saying they are upset with Kaepernick and burning his jersey yet you torture logic to insist this is not a reason.  It is not the only reason but it is a reason.

Again I look at it as business issue not a social issue.  He is an employee and he is hurting the product, what do you do about it.  If you were the manager of the local cable company the technician dispatched to everyone's house was giving them a personal political statement before doing his job, and a handful of many many houses were complaining, would you ignore it? 

Again regarding all the off the field stuff (wife beatings and arrests) they are exactly that, off-the-field.

If Kaepernick spent every waking minute off the field protesting, he would not be on the cover of TIME this week and fans would not care.  That's the difference.

[Tugg Speedman]

The Hypocrisy of Pakuni

Except this is not what the poll says.
It says what these people say they will do - again, not what they are doing - at some unstated point in the future. When? Week 3? Week 8? Week 15? Doesn't say.
Also, them not watching is conditioned upon whether other players "follow Kaepernick's lead and begin kneeling." Which players? How many other players? Again, doesn't say. What we do know is that very few other players - what 3-5 in all? - are following his lead.

What we do know is this:
- ratings were down in week 1, before this poll as taken, meaning what these 44 percent of people are claiming they would do in the future is irrelevant to what happened in week 1 - which is when Jesse started this thread to blame Kaepernick.
- what these people are claiming they will do - again, not actually doing - \is dependent on what players other than Kaepernick do.

Look, I have no doubt some people are not watching because they're made about Kaepernick. I also have no doubt that number is so tiny it would hardly register in the ratings.

When has "other stuff" not crept into sports? Seriously ... issues of race, social justice, gender, labor rights, politics, crime, etc., have been essential elements of the sports discussion pretty much forever.
Perhaps you've heard of Muhammad Ali and Jackie Robinson?
This is nothing new.

Your problem is you start with your personal beleifs.  You approve of the Black Lives Matter/Kaepernick protest so you twist yourself into a pretzel to argue it is not hurting ratings.  You will also defend this as a worthwhile and necessary protest. 

So what happens when you don't approve of the political protest?  Let me take you back about one year ago, October 28, 2015 commenting on Tim Tebow being fined by the NFL for writing "Pro-Life" on his eye-black

My criticism here is of the NFL's stubborn refusal to take these matters on a case-by-case basis because they fear it might affect sponsorship revenues.
I'm OK if they deem some messages/displays inappropriate. My issue is with them deeming every message/display inappropriate, except the ones from which they profit.

Pro Life is a political message and a political stance, and therefore I'd agree with it being barred. One may base their political stance regarding abortion on their religious beliefs, but that makes it no less of a political issue.
I suspect you already know this, though.

Pakuni, you honestly think you're a reasonable fair person.  You're not, you're a hyper-partisan that condescends those that did share your political views and cannot see how tortured your logic is about Kapernick and NFL ratings are.

So why can't the NFL treat Kaepernick the same as Tebow?  The answer is Kaepernick fits your political view where Tebow does not.

[Pakuni]

The Hypocrisy of Pakuni

Your problem is you start with your personal beleifs.  You approve of the Black Lives Matter/Kaepernick protest so you twist yourself into a pretzel to argue it is not hurting ratings.  You will also defend this as a worthwhile and necessary protest. 

So what happens when you don't approve of the political protest?  Let me take you back about one year ago, October 28, 2015 commenting on Tim Tebow being fined by the NFL for writing "Pro-Life" on his eye-black

Pakuni, you honestly think you're a reasonable fair person.  You're not, you're a hyper-partisan that condescends those that did share your political views and cannot see how tortured your logic is about Kapernick and NFL ratings are.

So why can't the NFL treat Kaepernick the same as Tebow?  The answer is Kaepernick fits your political view where Tebow does not.

Hey look, Jesse can't support his position so he changes the issue and levels personal attacks.
So very, very surprised. You've learned well from your master, Darth Chicos.

Here you've cynically and disingenuously lifted the Tebow eye black comments out of context from a discussion whether players altering their uniforms to make a political statement would be a violation of the uniform code. Let me say that again ... it was a discussion about the uniform code, and only the uniform code.
That is not in any way the discussion we are (were) having in this thread.
What's being discussed here is whether NFL ratings are suffering because of Kaepernick's protest, an assertion you cannot back up so, of course, you're moving the goalposts ... to the uniform code.
For the record, Colin Kaepernick should not be allowed to write #BLM on his uniform.
Protip: If you want to be taken seriously around here, you should avoid doing this in the future.

[Tugg Speedman]

Hey look, Jesse can't support his position so he changes the issue and levels personal attacks.
So very, very surprised. You've learned well from your master, Darth Chicos.

Here you've cynically and disingenuously lifted the Tebow eye black comments out of context from a discussion whether players altering their uniforms to make a political statement would be a violation of the uniform code. Let me say that again ... it was a discussion about the uniform code, and only the uniform code.
That is not in any way the discussion we are (were) having in this thread.
What's being discussed here is whether NFL ratings are suffering because of Kaepernick's protest, an assertion you cannot back up so, of course, you're moving the goalposts ... to the uniform code.
For the record, Colin Kaepernick should not be allowed to write #BLM on his uniform.
Protip: If you want to be taken seriously around here, you should avoid doing this in the future.

Eye-Black in not part of the uniform, just like tattoos are not part of the uniform. (headbands are which is why Jim McMahon was fined)

But that was not your reason.  It was

Pro Life is a political message and a political stance, and therefore I'd agree with it being barred.

That is for all political stances your don't like.



Kaepernick upsetting NFL fans and affecting ratings (again one of many reasons) has been established and understood by everyone but hyper-partisans.  You don't want it to be true so you refuse to accept it.