collapse

* Stud of Colorado Game

Tyler Kolek

21 points, 5 rebounds,
11 assists, 1 steal,
40 minutes

2023-24 Season SoG Tally
Kolek11
Ighodaro6
Jones, K.6
Mitchell2
Jones, S.1
Joplin1

'22-23
'21-22 * '20-21 * '19-20
'18-19 * '17-18 * '16-17
'15-16 * '14-15 * '13-14
'12-13 * '11-12 * '10-11

* Big East Standings

* Recent Posts

2024 Transfer Portal by Frenns Liquor Depot
[Today at 04:25:43 PM]


Dallas bars tonite by MU Fan in Connecticut
[Today at 04:20:48 PM]


Where is Marquette? by Warriors4ever
[Today at 04:19:46 PM]


2024 Coaching Carousel by THRILLHO
[Today at 04:05:24 PM]


Sweet 16 presser by cheebs09
[Today at 04:00:16 PM]


2024 NCAA Tournament Thread by NickelDimer
[Today at 03:31:19 PM]


10 years after “Done Deal” … It’s Happening! by The Sultan of Semantics
[Today at 03:24:51 PM]

Please Register - It's FREE!

The absolute only thing required for this FREE registration is a valid e-mail address.  We keep all your information confidential and will NEVER give or sell it to anyone else.
Login to get rid of this box (and ads) , or register NOW!

* Next up: NC State

Marquette
81
Marquette vs

NC State

Date/Time: Mar 29, 2024, 6:09 pm
TV: CBS
Schedule for 2023-24
Colorado
77

Author Topic: X's and O's  (Read 17169 times)

tower912

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 23348
X's and O's
« on: July 28, 2016, 01:04:54 PM »
To take this discussion out of the recruiting thread.......
I felt that Crean was good at preparation and motivation but terrible at in-game adjustments.   He was lousy at stopping runs by coming up with a new wrinkle.    He got outcoached regularly.   I thought he was a good, not great, recruiter.    Failed to string together consecutive solid classes, failed to exploit the final 4, failed to recruit and develop quality bigs.      But, IMO, his biggest weakness was in-game adjustments.

Buzz couldn't recruit quality bigs or quality point guards.  But he sure knew how to motivate the switchables.    I am constantly amazed that people downplay his X's and O's.   He won with the smallest team in D1.   Talented, yes, but smaller than some high school teams.    He won without post players.    He won playing a 6.5 player rotation.  He won without dominating point guards.    To string together a 5 season run (yes, year 6 sucked) with the rosters he had means he had to be doing some amazing alchemy.   And that requires in-game moves, adjustments, wrinkles.   He made other, very good, very experienced coaches adjust to what he was doing.   Crean never was able to do that at MU. 

Wojo gets an 'incomplete' so far.    It is difficult to assess his in-game wrinkles when you look at the overarching shortcomings of his first two rosters, year one with lack of players,size, and talent and year 2 with the lack of experience.       I keep finding myself wanting to beat up on him, but I usually stop myself and try to examine context.     This year, due to the unbalanced roster but deep team talent pool, I believe he has the opportunity to due some truly innovative and creative things.    I just haven't seen enough to believe he can.     But I am still hopeful. 
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

MerrittsMustache

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4676
Re: X's and O's
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2016, 01:22:21 PM »
To take this discussion out of the recruiting thread.......
I felt that Crean was good at preparation and motivation but terrible at in-game adjustments.   He was lousy at stopping runs by coming up with a new wrinkle.    He got outcoached regularly.   I thought he was a good, not great, recruiter.    Failed to string together consecutive solid classes, failed to exploit the final 4, failed to recruit and develop quality bigs.      But, IMO, his biggest weakness was in-game adjustments.

Buzz couldn't recruit quality bigs or quality point guards.  But he sure knew how to motivate the switchables.    I am constantly amazed that people downplay his X's and O's.   He won with the smallest team in D1.   Talented, yes, but smaller than some high school teams.    He won without post players.    He won playing a 6.5 player rotation.  He won without dominating point guards.    To string together a 5 season run (yes, year 6 sucked) with the rosters he had means he had to be doing some amazing alchemy.   And that requires in-game moves, adjustments, wrinkles.   He made other, very good, very experienced coaches adjust to what he was doing.   Crean never was able to do that at MU. 

Wojo gets an 'incomplete' so far.    It is difficult to assess his in-game wrinkles when you look at the overarching shortcomings of his first two rosters, year one with lack of players,size, and talent and year 2 with the lack of experience.       I keep finding myself wanting to beat up on him, but I usually stop myself and try to examine context.     This year, due to the unbalanced roster but deep team talent pool, I believe he has the opportunity to due some truly innovative and creative things.    I just haven't seen enough to believe he can.     But I am still hopeful.

You're selling Gardner and Otule short. Not to mention, McKay w as big-time get but he flaked out just prior to the season. Sure, there wasn't a lot of depth in the big man department but that's why the switchables were so important. Lazar, Butler, Crowder, Jamil, etc all filled the roles of big men when they needed to and did an admirable job. Truth be told, Buzz is the 2nd best coach is MU basketball history.

If Buzz was given MU's current team, they'd make the tournament. I'm confident that Wojo can do the same...OK, OK, maybe more hopeful than confident.


bilsu

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8800
Re: X's and O's
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2016, 01:39:37 PM »
I think Crean's problem is that he switches too early in a game from playing to win to playing not to lose. He has lost many leads at home by doing this. There is no bigger way to make your fans mad than to give away a win at home. Buzz's thought process is much simpler. Basically every play matters and expects every player to play hard on every play. He has won a lot of games by his players always being tougher than the other team. Buzz may be better at teaching his players to be tough than he is at X's & O's. Wojo is similar to Buzz in that he believes in paint touches and making more free throws that the other team shoots. So far, partially due to youth,  his players have not been as tough as Buzz's players. However, I not sure that players that work on being three point shooters are tough players. It is much easier to shoot a three than to try to compete on the inside. Buzz's weakness was not recruiting enough shooters. Wojo's weakness might be recruiting too many shooters. You need shooters and bangers to be good.

WarriorInNYC

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 618
Re: X's and O's
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2016, 01:46:30 PM »
You're selling Gardner and Otule short. Not to mention, McKay w as big-time get but he flaked out just prior to the season. Sure, there wasn't a lot of depth in the big man department but that's why the switchables were so important. Lazar, Butler, Crowder, Jamil, etc all filled the roles of big men when they needed to and did an admirable job. Truth be told, Buzz is the 2nd best coach is MU basketball history.

If Buzz was given MU's current team, they'd make the tournament. I'm confident that Wojo can do the same...OK, OK, maybe more hopeful than confident.

I wouldn't call it so much as selling Gardner and Otule short, as they were both talented bigs that Buzz had.  But neither were "quality bigs" in terms of recruiting.  Both were complete unknowns that were not gaining a whole lot of other high major interest.

tower912

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 23348
Re: X's and O's
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2016, 01:49:47 PM »
You're selling Gardner and Otule short. Not to mention, McKay w as big-time get but he flaked out just prior to the season. Sure, there wasn't a lot of depth in the big man department but that's why the switchables were so important. Lazar, Butler, Crowder, Jamil, etc all filled the roles of big men when they needed to and did an admirable job. Truth be told, Buzz is the 2nd best coach is MU basketball history.

If Buzz was given MU's current team, they'd make the tournament. I'm confident that Wojo can do the same...OK, OK, maybe more hopeful than confident.

Otule maximized his abilities, but was frail.   Gardner was an offensive force, but ultimately a one dimensional big.   I agree that Buzz was the second best coach in MU history.     I think that if he was able to get MU's 16-17 team to play to his standards of toughness and intensity, it would be at least a second weekend of the tournament team.   I am less optimistic that Wojo can make the tourney.    That does not mean, however, I have given up on him or want him gone. 
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

The Lens

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4916
Re: X's and O's
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2016, 02:00:15 PM »
Buzz is the 2nd best coach in Marquette history and it's not even close.  The only caveat is I would take Majerus in his prime but we didn't get Majerus in his prime.
The Teal Train has left the station and Lens is day drinking in the bar car.    ---- Dr. Blackheart

History is so valuable if you have the humility to learn from it.    ---- Shaka Smart

Galway Eagle

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 10461
Re: X's and O's
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2016, 02:14:52 PM »
Buzz is the 2nd best coach in Marquette history and it's not even close.  The only caveat is I would take Majerus in his prime but we didn't get Majerus in his prime.

If it's everyone in their prime it's

1) Al
2) Tex Winters
3) Majerus
4) Buzz

If it's based on their time at MU then yes there's a big drop from buzz to Crean/Raymonds/O'Neil
Maigh Eo for Sam

forgetful

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4726
Re: X's and O's
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2016, 02:18:01 PM »
You're selling Gardner and Otule short. Not to mention, McKay w as big-time get but he flaked out just prior to the season. Sure, there wasn't a lot of depth in the big man department but that's why the switchables were so important. Lazar, Butler, Crowder, Jamil, etc all filled the roles of big men when they needed to and did an admirable job. Truth be told, Buzz is the 2nd best coach is MU basketball history.

If Buzz was given MU's current team, they'd make the tournament. I'm confident that Wojo can do the same...OK, OK, maybe more hopeful than confident.

His performance in 2013-14 would contradict this statement.  The 2013-14 roster was arguably more talented or at least as talented as this years roster.  Buzz went 17-15 and didn't sniff any postseason.

NotAnAlum

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1229
Re: X's and O's
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2016, 02:22:38 PM »
I agree Buzz was and continues to be a very good coach.  He was very good at hiding his teams weaknesses and maximizing his team's strengths.  I think he was a more than adequate recruiter.  The problem Buzz had was a huge inferiority complex that I believe comes from his upbringing.  He cared too much what people thought of him which can be a liability in big time college coaching.  I think that is why we allowed his name to be brought up so much for coaching vacancies.  He had to have that kind of affirmation.  So when it seemed like the admin didn't approve of the way he was doing things he lost control of his final season at MU and then bolted for the first decent job he could find.  Buzz was only comfortable playing the underdog role which is much easier to play and use to motivate your team.  Even if the Admin had fully backed him I'm not sure Buzz is the kind of coach who can win with a program that is expected to win.  That is a trait that the truly great coaches have like Coach K, Izzo, Self, Roy etc.  Can you win when there is a target on your back.  Al certainly could.
I suspect that if Wojo is successful here (and that is very much to be determined as of now) he will be able to make that jump to succeeding when success is expected because that would have been ingrained in him during his 16 years at Duke.

tower912

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 23348
Re: X's and O's
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2016, 02:23:01 PM »
One year out of six that he did not get the most out of his team.   
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

wadesworld

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 17384
Re: X's and O's
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2016, 02:25:27 PM »
One year out of six that he did not get the most out of his team.

Compared to how many out of 2 where Wojo didn't get the most out of his team?
Rocket Trigger Warning (wild that saying this would trigger anyone, but it's the world we live in): Black Lives Matter

tower912

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 23348
Re: X's and O's
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2016, 02:31:53 PM »
I am firmly on the fence about Wojo.   
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

MerrittsMustache

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4676
Re: X's and O's
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2016, 02:32:26 PM »
His performance in 2013-14 would contradict this statement.  The 2013-14 roster was arguably more talented or at least as talented as this years roster.  Buzz went 17-15 and didn't sniff any postseason.

The 2013-14 team needed Jake Thomas and Derrick Wilson to each play 30 min/gm (top two players in minutes). With all due respect to those guys and that team, it was not more talented than this year's team.

wadesworld

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 17384
Re: X's and O's
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2016, 02:51:03 PM »
I am firmly on the fence about Wojo.   

I'm just wondering if you think Wojo got less out of the past 2 teams than he could've.  You've probably been the most vocal poster about how you can't expect anything out of freshman so last year you expected nothing from the team.  And the year before your core group of guys was a redshirt freshman Duane Wilson, Derrick Wilson, Matt Carlino, Steve Taylor, and, for half of a season, Luke Fischer.  Not many coaches are winning many games with that lineup.
Rocket Trigger Warning (wild that saying this would trigger anyone, but it's the world we live in): Black Lives Matter

Badgerhater

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 979
Re: X's and O's
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2016, 03:13:28 PM »
The 2013-14 team needed Jake Thomas and Derrick Wilson to each play 30 min/gm (top two players in minutes). With all due respect to those guys and that team, it was not more talented than this year's team.

Vander Blue was going to be the central player on Buzz's last team, but we know how that worked out.   Players leave all the time and that needs to be expected, but Blue's leaving really left a hole that couldn't be filled in time for the next season.  While there was chatter about Blue leaving, everyone was essentially shocked or perplexed at his decision.

Ellenson leaving is different animal.  Everyone knew from when he signed his LOI that he had the talent to make the jump and no one was surprised when it happened.   Thus, Wojo shouldn't get much slack related to his departure because he should have planned his future rosters accordingly.

forgetful

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4726
Re: X's and O's
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2016, 03:24:08 PM »
The 2013-14 team needed Jake Thomas and Derrick Wilson to each play 30 min/gm (top two players in minutes). With all due respect to those guys and that team, it was not more talented than this year's team.

You say we needed them to play those minutes.  That isn't true, there was a ton of talent sitting on the bench. 

Buzz mismanaged that team tremendously.  Jake would have been a great asset, but Buzz admittedly refused to design a play or call a play for him.  Thats just inane coaching.  Jake was not a player that was going to create for himself.  It is the coaches responsibility to adapt in those situations.  Buzz just refused to do so, he essentially tanked that season.

As for the limitations of D.Will.  Hell, Wojo (who people say is a worse coach) found a way to win by playing Cheatham at point, who never had played that position before.  Buzz could have found a way to use JJJ, Mayo or even a point-forward (Jamil Wilson) to overcome the limitations of D.Will...not to mention that D.Will (senior) was a better pg than Wojo had last year, when he found a way to still win 20 games.

As good as a job Buzz did in adapting for the midget team, he did an equally poor job adapting to the talent on the 13-14 team. 

And if we are going with team limitations.  We are going to have a bunch of 6-5/6-6 guys play the 4 this year and sometimes fill in at the 5.  Similar personnel limitations.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2016, 03:27:35 PM by forgetful »

bilsu

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8800
Re: X's and O's
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2016, 03:32:45 PM »
I'm just wondering if you think Wojo got less out of the past 2 teams than he could've.  You've probably been the most vocal poster about how you can't expect anything out of freshman so last year you expected nothing from the team.  And the year before your core group of guys was a redshirt freshman Duane Wilson, Derrick Wilson, Matt Carlino, Steve Taylor, and, for half of a season, Luke Fischer.  Not many coaches are winning many games with that lineup.
You were not asking me, but I will give you my opinion. Wojo's first year, Carlino had a serious concussion and I believe we lost every game without him. We won two games in Florida and beat Providence that I did not expect to win. I was not happy with the season, but I am not sure anyone else would of done better. However, I did not expect to lose the conference opener to DePaul or to Nebraska Omaha (?). Last year beating Providence twice, LSU and Wisconsin were wins that I was not expecting. Losing to DePaul and maybe Creighton at home were downers. Losing to Belmont really hurt. However, I do not think we would of lost to Belmont a month later. I actually had lower expectations for last year than most posters here so 8-10 in conference was pretty good. Depending on what I focus on I can say Wojo exceeded my expectations or I can say he disappointed me. I would say the program has disappointed me more than Wojo.

wadesworld

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 17384
Re: X's and O's
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2016, 03:42:30 PM »
You were not asking me, but I will give you my opinion. Wojo's first year, Carlino had a serious concussion and I believe we lost every game without him. We won two games in Florida and beat Providence that I did not expect to win. I was not happy with the season, but I am not sure anyone else would of done better. However, I did not expect to lose the conference opener to DePaul or to Nebraska Omaha (?). Last year beating Providence twice, LSU and Wisconsin were wins that I was not expecting. Losing to DePaul and maybe Creighton at home were downers. Losing to Belmont really hurt. However, I do not think we would of lost to Belmont a month later. I actually had lower expectations for last year than most posters here so 8-10 in conference was pretty good. Depending on what I focus on I can say Wojo exceeded my expectations or I can say he disappointed me. I would say the program has disappointed me more than Wojo.

Fair response and hard to argue with any of it. I was just curious because tower said both in pregame predictions all season last year and his overall season predictions as a whole that relying on freshman doesn't lead to success, so I would think that whether Buzz, Crean, or Wojo were coaching, his expectations would've been somewhat similar with the same roster last year. And I would think the year before no coach in America would do anything significant with that roster. So to me I would think in Wojo's 2 years as a head coach he's done just about as well as Buzz, Crean, or most others probably would've done with the same roster and thus find it interesting that someone would conclude one of those coaches would do so significantly better than Wojo based on what's been done so far.
Rocket Trigger Warning (wild that saying this would trigger anyone, but it's the world we live in): Black Lives Matter

Lennys Tap

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 12220
Re: X's and O's
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2016, 03:45:32 PM »
I am firmly on the fence about Wojo.   

I'm on the perch with you - hoping Wojo gets me off that fence this year.

dgies9156

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4022
Re: X's and O's
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2016, 03:52:12 PM »
If it's everyone in their prime it's

1) Al
2) Tex Winters
3) Majerus
4) Buzz

If it's based on their time at MU then yes there's a big drop from buzz to Crean/Raymonds/O'Neil

1)  Al
2) _____________
3) Maybe someday
4) Hillbilly
5) Crean
6) Tex
7) Raymonds
8) Wojo

MerrittsMustache

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4676
Re: X's and O's
« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2016, 03:56:34 PM »
You say we needed them to play those minutes.  That isn't true, there was a ton of talent sitting on the bench. 

Who? JJJ - a wildly inconsistent frosh with no outside shot? Eonte Burton? John Dawson?

Buzz mismanaged that team tremendously.  Jake would have been a great asset, but Buzz admittedly refused to design a play or call a play for him.  Thats just inane coaching.  Jake was not a player that was going to create for himself.  It is the coaches responsibility to adapt in those situations.  Buzz just refused to do so, he essentially tanked that season.

When did Buzz say that he refused to design plays for Jake?

As for the limitations of D.Will.  Hell, Wojo (who people say is a worse coach) found a way to win by playing Cheatham at point, who never had played that position before.  Buzz could have found a way to use JJJ, Mayo or even a point-forward (Jamil Wilson) to overcome the limitations of D.Will...not to mention that D.Will (senior) was a better pg than Wojo had last year, when he found a way to still win 20 games.

So, your solution to the PG situation was to bench the team's best ball-handler and only above average perimeter defender and give the reins to the two most TO-prone players on the team? Interesting strategy.

As good as a job Buzz did in adapting for the midget team, he did an equally poor job adapting to the talent on the 13-14 team. 

Again, where exactly was all the talent on the '13-14 team?

Finally, the 2013-14 team went 2-4 in OT games and lost two more one-possession games. Buzz's team typically had a very thin margin for error and that season they ended up on the wrong side of most of the close ones...you know, because Buzz tanked the season  ::)

Galway Eagle

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 10461
Re: X's and O's
« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2016, 04:00:37 PM »
1)  Al
2) _____________
3) Maybe someday
4) Hillbilly
5) Crean
6) Tex
7) Raymonds
8) Wojo

At MU or in their prime? Because I'd take prime Kstate Tex or Utah Majerus over any coach on that list not named Al
Maigh Eo for Sam

MarquetteDano

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3230
Re: X's and O's
« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2016, 04:04:53 PM »
My biggest issue with Crean were his set plays.  Too complex for college players. Too much thinking of where you needed to be on the court and yelling incessantly at them did not help.

Buzz kept the offense much simpler which helps younger players figure it out quicker.


dbwarriors

  • Scholarship Player
  • **
  • Posts: 99
Re: X's and O's
« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2016, 04:06:02 PM »
Best X's & O's = Majerus

bilsu

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8800
Re: X's and O's
« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2016, 04:08:02 PM »
You say we needed them to play those minutes.  That isn't true, there was a ton of talent sitting on the bench. 

Buzz mismanaged that team tremendously.  Jake would have been a great asset, but Buzz admittedly refused to design a play or call a play for him.  Thats just inane coaching.  Jake was not a player that was going to create for himself.  It is the coaches responsibility to adapt in those situations.  Buzz just refused to do so, he essentially tanked that season.

As for the limitations of D.Will.  Hell, Wojo (who people say is a worse coach) found a way to win by playing Cheatham at point, who never had played that position before.  Buzz could have found a way to use JJJ, Mayo or even a point-forward (Jamil Wilson) to overcome the limitations of D.Will...not to mention that D.Will (senior) was a better pg than Wojo had last year, when he found a way to still win 20 games.

As good as a job Buzz did in adapting for the midget team, he did an equally poor job adapting to the talent on the 13-14 team. 

And if we are going with team limitations.  We are going to have a bunch of 6-5/6-6 guys play the 4 this year and sometimes fill in at the 5.  Similar personnel limitations.
Three comments.
First Wojo gave up with the idea of Cheatham playing point, which you could argue shows that Wojo was willing to adjust. (point for Wojo).
Second Buzz's 17-15 team played a significantly tougher schedule. (point for Buzz)
Without looking at the schedule and relying on my memory (which often gets me in trouble with you guys), Buzz's team was still in the running for an NCAA bid with three games to go in the conference season and lost some critical games in overtime. Neither team got an NIT bid, but Buzz's team was much closer to getting a bid than Wojo's. These are the things I remember happening at the end of the season. Ball being passed into Thomas who holds the ball expecting to be fouled and gets a jump called instead. Play turn a win into a loss. Home game with MU down needing a basket to tie or win. Buzz designs play for Jamil. Other team covers Jamil well and he throws it to Derrick who misses a 10ft jumper and even worse does not hit the rim taking away a chance for a tip in. It may of been the same game as Thomas being tied up. Late in game, MU is up, Derrick has ball and misses a wide open three point shot with plenty of time still on the clock. MU also lost to San Diego St. with Gardner playing with the flu. Arizona St. beats MU when Derrick misses layup instead of giving the ball to Thomas who single handily got MU back into the game. Basically everything went wrong that season. The exact opposite of Buzz's second season where everything went right. That season MU won three overtime games in a row and then two Big East tournament games to squeak out an NCAA bid. We praise Buzz for being a great coach for going 22-15 with that team. He may of been more lucky than good. We criticize buzz for going 17-15 with his last team. He may of been more unlucky than bad. Coming off an Elite 8 my expectations for that team with Blue and McKay was off the charts. That team was cursed as soon as Blue left.