Big East Coaching Stability.

[Herman Cain]

What you see as Lovell/Scholl/Cords being "star-struck by the Duke connection", I see as L/S/C being convinced they got the perfect post-Buzz hire, just as Buzz was the perfect post-Crean guy, Crean post-Deane, Deane post-O'Neill, ONeill post-Dukiet. And there the chain breaks...lol, although Majerus post-Raymonds wasn't a bad set-up, it's just that guys with no patience and little to go by to judge the new coach's acumen (like MU fan in NY ) jumped the gun on Rick and a gem was lost forever. Thankfully, said gem continued to hold MU close to his heart up until his untimely passing.

Actually I thought Majerus was an excellent choice . Majerus had an opportunity to go with the Bucks and took it. No one threw him out.
https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1314&dat=19860615&id=FVtWAAAAIBAJ&sjid=Yu8DAAAAIBAJ&pg=4425,10136734&hl=en

[#UnleashSean]

I think alot of people are not understanding the difference between "hot seat" and "firing". No one is calling for Wojo's head after this year. However if we finish at the bottom half of the Big East this year, and THEN the year after, we are having some talks. No matter how much you all want "traditional scholar athletes"

[wadesworld]

U Conn was not eligible for the NCAA tournament  in Ollies first year. They still went 20-10  and 10-8 in Big East.

Did UCONN not miss the NCAA Tournament in Ollie's first season and win the national championship in Ollie's second year or...?

[jsglow]

Actually I thought Majerus was an excellent choice . Majerus had an opportunity to go with the Bucks and took it. No one threw him out.
https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1314&dat=19860615&id=FVtWAAAAIBAJ&sjid=Yu8DAAAAIBAJ&pg=4425,10136734&hl=en

And I have some swampland in central Florida for ya.  At best it was a 'mutual agreement' to leave.

[wadesworld]

I think alot of people are not understanding the difference between "hot seat" and "firing". No one is calling for Wojo's head after this year. However if we finish at the bottom half of the Big East this year, and THEN the year after, we are having some talks. No matter how much you all want "traditional scholar athletes"

I don't think anybody's misunderstanding the difference.  People here are saying if we aren't in the NCAA Tournament after this season Wojo's seat will be hot.  His seat is not going to be hot unless we take a step back this year.  If people mean that we need to start discussing the direction of the program if Wojo doesn't have us in the NCAA Tournament by the 2018 NCAA Tournament, then don't say that Wojo's seat will be hot after the 2017 season if we aren't in the NCAA Tournament.  Wojo's seat will be as cold as ice after the 2017 season unless we take a step back to where we were in Wojo's first year.

[Herman Cain]

And I have some swampland in central Florida for ya.  At best it was a 'mutual agreement' to leave.

The whole Duane Johnson academic ineligibility hurt his cause and he was on hot seat for sure .

[Badgerhoney]

A third Final Four for Wisconsin in four years!

http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/big-ten-offseason-storylines-experienced-wisconsin-has-final-four-potential/


Just sayin


 

[wadesworld]

A third Final Four for Wisconsin in four years!

http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/big-ten-offseason-storylines-experienced-wisconsin-has-final-four-potential/


Just sayin


 

Cancel the season, someone said Wisconsin has Final Four potential.

Of course Wisconsin has the potential to do big things.  They play in the B1G.  Since you evidently think UW belongs to the Big East?  Remember when UW lost to the 7th and 8th place teams in the Big East, 1 at home and 1 on a neutral court, and then finished 3rd in the B1G?  Heck, you lost at home to a 5th place Horizon League team and a dead last Summit League team at home before going 12-6 in the B1G.  Come join a real conference and let's see how your season goes.

What's Bo up to these days?

Thanks for your contribution to the Big East Coaching Stability thread.  Very important!  And hey, if it turns out to be true that UW does, in fact, make it to the Final Four, at least that means at least one B1G team can get past the Sweet 16 this season for a change!  Maybe they can win the first national title for the B1G in 17 years!  An outstanding 1 title in the last 27 years for the almighty B1G!  The Big East and AAC are both 3 years into existence and have equaled that.  What a joke.

[4everwarriors]

Actually, Rick bailed on MU, in June btw, before he got da heave ho. Definitely was feelin' da heat 'til his bud, Don Nelson, gave 'im an escape route, at a reduced salary, ta be da Bucks third assistant coach, ai na?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I think alot of people are not understanding the difference between "hot seat" and "firing". No one is calling for Wojo's head after this year. However if we finish at the bottom half of the Big East this year, and THEN the year after, we are having some talks. No matter how much you all want "traditional scholar athletes"

We understand it perfectly. You are saying hot seat if no tourney this year and fired if no tourney the following year. We are saying ice cold seat if no tourney but improvement this year and lukewarm seat if no tourney the following year.

Putting deadlines on tournament appearances is a shortsighted and incorrect way of looking at a coaches performance. You need to look at the program the coach is building. If the coach it's building the program properly than the tournament appearances will come.

To be clear, I'm not saying that wojo has built the program properly. Not enough info yet. Signs so far are good. But I have concerns about the 17-18 season. Class of 2017 is a critical one for Wojo. Well know how critical once we see this seasons team in action

[muwarrior69]

Weren't some calling for Jay Wright's head when he was missing the tourney?   

Wojo knows he needs to win.  I expect that he will.  We're all frustrated but 2 years of the recent 'slump' have exactly zero to do with Wojo.  Btw, that doesn't mean that ticket sales won't be down again this year.  They will.

I'm actually expecting us to be better this year and to surprise some people.  More experience and less standing around waiting for an inefficient Henry to salvage another possession.  Just think of the difference between the Belmont game and later in the year against quality opponents.  Night and day.  Occasional relapses?  Sure.  DePaul comes to mind and was God awful.  More frequent big performances?  Yep.  Creighton out there and GTown at home.  The kids were growing up.  It'll show this year.

Hope you are right. I'll believe we have better perimeter shooters when I see it. It has been so frustration to see our guys go to the corner for an open 3 and miss. Also, hope they can rebound and get that offensive tip in.

[jsglow]

Actually, Rick bailed on MU, in June btw, before he got da heave ho. Definitely was feelin' da heat 'til his bud, Don Nelson, gave 'im an escape route, at a reduced salary, ta be da Bucks third assistant coach, ai na?

Yep.  About the truth of it.

[GooooMarquette]

Weren't some calling for Jay Wright's head when he was missing the tourney?   

First off, I agree with your general sentiment: I don't think Wojo will - or should - be on the hot seat if we miss the dance this season.

Still, I don't think Wright is the best comparison.  When people were calling for his head a few seasons back, Nova had missed the tournament only ONCE between 2005-2016 - in 2012.  The main reason people were calling for his head was that once they got to the dance, they missed the Sweet Sixteen every year between 2009 and last season.  Same concept - high expectations...but Wright had his team performing at a higher level than Wojo has thus far.

[bilsu]

UCONN first year with Kevin Ollie no NCAA Tournament.
UCONN second year with Kevin Ollie NCAA Champions.
Obviously any coach in the world who doesn't have an NCAA Title by the end of his second season should be fired.

See how stupid that game is?

No what is stupid is not recognizing coaching ability. A great coach gets the most out of the talent he has.

[GGGG]

No what is stupid is not recognizing coaching ability. A great coach gets the most out of the talent he has.

Not arguing that Wojo is a great coach. But I don't see evidence to suggest he's a bad one either. Give him time.

[wadesworld]

No what is stupid is not recognizing coaching ability. A great coach gets the most out of the talent he has.

So you think Wojo could've gotten more out of a sophomore JJJ, a freshman Duane Wilson, a senior Derrick Wilson, a senior Juan Anderson, a junior Steve Taylor, half of a season from a sophomore Luke Fischer, 2/3 of a season from a senior transfer Matt Carlino, and the Mache twin walk ons?  Loaded.  Totally loaded.

Interesting take.  I guess you really do recognize coaching ability better than me.  My fault.

[dgies9156]

And I have some swampland in central Florida for ya.

Glow, given the improbable growth in the Metro Orlando area, I'll take it!

Back in the 1960s, Central Florida swamp was won of the great real estate frauds!

Today, it is called Orlando.

[Loose Cannon]

A third Final Four for Wisconsin in four years!

http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/big-ten-offseason-storylines-experienced-wisconsin-has-final-four-potential/


Just sayin

I'm happy for Ya and the Badgers.


 

[MarquetteDano]

Not arguing that Wojo is a great coach. But I don't see evidence to suggest he's a bad one either. Give him time.

This is really it.  We know Wojo he can recruit and is a good steward of the program.  It is the coaching that everyone wonders about.  At this point Buzz took a short, rag tag group,  and got them to the Tourney.  Deane got to the dance & NIT Final with solid, yet not great talent.

My question is:  do we have a Crean,  who can only win with superior talent,  or do we have a Deane?  Remains to be seen.  No rhyme intended.

[Marcus92]

This is really it.  We know Wojo he can recruit and is a good steward of the program.  It is the coaching that everyone wonders about.  At this point Buzz took a short, rag tag group,  and got them to the Tourney.  Deane got to the dance & NIT Final with solid, yet not great talent.

My question is:  do we have a Crean,  who can only win with superior talent,  or do we have a Deane?  Remains to be seen.  No rhyme intended.

You can't have the Buzz argument both ways. If he was such a great coach to get Acker, Cubillan, etc. to play beyond their abilities, what about his last season? Few questioned whether he had enough talent, yet missed the NIT. Did he forget how to coach? Did he stop caring?

The difference, to me, was talent and how it fits together. Where Crean left Buzz pieces to work with, Buzz left Wojo very little.

I see Crean as a great recruiter, and average to above average in terms of in-game management and player development.

Buzz gets high marks for development, probably better than Crean for in-game management, maybe above average in recruiting (finds hidden gems, but doesn't always land top talent and can't always keep it when he does).

Wojo might just be the best recruiter of the three. In-game management and player development show promise — but I'd give him an incomplete at this point. Next season should tell us a lot more.

[brewcity77]

You can't have the Buzz argument both ways. If he was such a great coach to get Acker, Cubillan, etc. to play beyond their abilities, what about his last season? Few questioned whether he had enough talent, yet missed the NIT. Did he forget how to coach? Did he stop caring?

Buzz has never understood how to assemble a team. His recruiting philosophy was simple. Get 2-3 points, 2-3 bigs, and the rest switchables. The problem is he only worried about getting superior athletes at the switchable positions. Look at his recruits for those positions. Junior, Derrick, Reggie Smith, TJ Taylor at the point. McMorrow, Otule, Gardner, Pierce at the center. The best guys on those lists are Junior, who vastly underperformed his ranking, and Gardner, who vastly outperformed his. Those guys were all, excepting Gardner, mid major. Buzz put all his major effort into his switchables.

That's why his team failed and we had a talent deficiency. Hell, you mention Cooby and Acker, don't forget Buzz tried to run those guys off his first year! He was a terrible evaluator of talent at the point, and when Derrick became the clear cut best option, we were in trouble.

Buzz's system worked best with talented switchables and multiple guys that could handle the ball. Cooby & Acker, Buycks & Cadougan, Junior and Blue, but as soon as Derrick was the only one left, we were in trouble.

[bilsu]

So you think Wojo could've gotten more out of a sophomore JJJ, a freshman Duane Wilson, a senior Derrick Wilson, a senior Juan Anderson, a junior Steve Taylor, half of a season from a sophomore Luke Fischer, 2/3 of a season from a senior transfer Matt Carlino, and the Mache twin walk ons?  Loaded.  Totally loaded.

Interesting take.  I guess you really do recognize coaching ability better than me.  My fault.

I never said that. What I originally posted was the statement that Wojo starting with a bare cupboard was not an excuse for not making the NCAA tournament this year or next. I gave a comparison between Virginia Tech and MU. First year they both finished last in their conference. Second year Buzz got an NIT bid and Wojo got no bid. This year Buzz's team is predicted to make NCAA tournament while MU is not. Someone responded to that post that it was stupid to compare one team to the next. Basically Buzz could recruit who he wanted (quickfix) and Wojo was limited to recruiting kids that filled a certain profile. All I stated was the great coaches do more with the talent they got. I did not directly comment on Wojo's coaching ability. What happens here is a difference of opinion based on hope. The Big East coaches predict where MU is going to finish and no one here wants to accept their predictions. However, the coaches and other prognosticators have been closer to reality the last two years than we like. Either MUscoopers are overrating MU's talent level or they are overrating the ability of the coaches. Honestly, I do think it comes down to the type of players the coaches are recruiting. Buzz likes athletic switchables who cannot shoot, but play hard defense and scrap for rebounds. Wojo likes shooters who so far do not like to fight for rebounds or play tough defense. My opinion, and you are free to argue otherwise, is that players that generally concentrate on outside shooting prefer to play on the outside and not like to mix it up underneath. The result is Wojo has a team of shooters that are not great rebounders, ball handlers or defenders. We need some barnyard dogs. Wojo could very well be getting the most he can out of our players, which would fit the description of a great coach getting more out of the talent he has. It may be that Wojo needs to do a much better job at recruiting. You need to build the best team possible. Everyone here would agree that Rowsey and Howard are great recruits. The trouble is they are fighting for minutes on a team that has all of its guards returning. Meanwhile we have no true power forward on the team. You have to either blame that on Henry or Wojo.

[Folks,,,]

I never said that. What I originally posted was the statement that Wojo starting with a bare cupboard was not an excuse for not making the NCAA tournament this year or next. I gave a comparison between Virginia Tech and MU. First year they both finished last in their conference. Second year Buzz got an NIT bid and Wojo got no bid. This year Buzz's team is predicted to make NCAA tournament while MU is not. Someone responded to that post that it was stupid to compare one team to the next. Basically Buzz could recruit who he wanted (quickfix) and Wojo was limited to recruiting kids that filled a certain profile. All I stated was the great coaches do more with the talent they got. I did not directly comment on Wojo's coaching ability. What happens here is a difference of opinion based on hope. The Big East coaches predict where MU is going to finish and no one here wants to accept their predictions. However, the coaches and other prognosticators have been closer to reality the last two years than we like. Either MUscoopers are overrating MU's talent level or they are overrating the ability of the coaches. Honestly, I do think it comes down to the type of players the coaches are recruiting. Buzz likes athletic switchables who cannot shoot, but play hard defense and scrap for rebounds. Wojo likes shooters who so far do not like to fight for rebounds or play tough defense. My opinion, and you are free to argue otherwise, is that players that generally concentrate on outside shooting prefer to play on the outside and not like to mix it up underneath. The result is Wojo has a team of shooters that are not great rebounders, ball handlers or defenders. We need some barnyard dogs. Wojo could very well be getting the most he can out of our players, which would fit the description of a great coach getting more out of the talent he has. It may be that Wojo needs to do a much better job at recruiting. You need to build the best team possible. Everyone here would agree that Rowsey and Howard are great recruits. The trouble is they are fighting for minutes on a team that has all of its guards returning. Meanwhile we have no true power forward on the team. You have to either blame that on Henry or Wojo.

[wadesworld]

I never said that. What I originally posted was the statement that Wojo starting with a bare cupboard was not an excuse for not making the NCAA tournament this year or next. I gave a comparison between Virginia Tech and MU. First year they both finished last in their conference. Second year Buzz got an NIT bid and Wojo got no bid. This year Buzz's team is predicted to make NCAA tournament while MU is not. Someone responded to that post that it was stupid to compare one team to the next. Basically Buzz could recruit who he wanted (quickfix) and Wojo was limited to recruiting kids that filled a certain profile. All I stated was the great coaches do more with the talent they got. I did not directly comment on Wojo's coaching ability. What happens here is a difference of opinion based on hope. The Big East coaches predict where MU is going to finish and no one here wants to accept their predictions. However, the coaches and other prognosticators have been closer to reality the last two years than we like. Either MUscoopers are overrating MU's talent level or they are overrating the ability of the coaches. Honestly, I do think it comes down to the type of players the coaches are recruiting. Buzz likes athletic switchables who cannot shoot, but play hard defense and scrap for rebounds. Wojo likes shooters who so far do not like to fight for rebounds or play tough defense. My opinion, and you are free to argue otherwise, is that players that generally concentrate on outside shooting prefer to play on the outside and not like to mix it up underneath. The result is Wojo has a team of shooters that are not great rebounders, ball handlers or defenders. We need some barnyard dogs. Wojo could very well be getting the most he can out of our players, which would fit the description of a great coach getting more out of the talent he has. It may be that Wojo needs to do a much better job at recruiting. You need to build the best team possible. Everyone here would agree that Rowsey and Howard are great recruits. The trouble is they are fighting for minutes on a team that has all of its guards returning. Meanwhile we have no true power forward on the team. You have to either blame that on Henry or Wojo.

Funny you should bring up the preseason coaches polls and Buzz doing more with less. Going into Buzz's last season guess where Marquette was predicted to finish in the Big East by said coaches? That's right, first place. And then? Buzz's hard working, gritty, grinding team finished 17-15 overall, out of the NCAA Tournament, out of the NIT. Maybe his athletic, hard working, non shooting players needed to work a little harder?

Here's the thing. I'm not sure why you are comparing Virginia Tech to Marquette. What does VT have to do with MU? Burt was a head coach taking over a program where the former head coach wasn't taking over a different program, so not only did he get to bring his own MU recruits with him, he also got VT's recruits as well. So that's basically 2 recruiting classes before Wojo ever got one, considering Wojo was an assistant coach who didn't get to bring along a recruiting class with him from the school he was coaching at, and the former coach at the program he was taking over took nearly the entire recruiting class with him. So Buzz is bringing in essentially his 4th recruiting class to VT while Wojo is bringing in essentially his 2nd recruiting class to MU. It shouldn't be all that surprising why one program might be a little further along in their rebuild. They've had twice as many recruiting classes to work with.

[mu-rara]

TAMU, I enjoy reading your comments and I hope you don't take me the wrong way. We're in agreement more than we're not.

That said, you're dead wrong on this one. Progress is far less important than dollars and cents. If the cash cow that is Marquette Basketball is threatened by poor performance, then Coach Wojo's positioned will be threatened. I recognize he has a rebuilding period due to the train wreck the Hillbilly left, but the level of patience President Lovell will have has a .99 correlation to changes in basketball revenue. Period.

I'm as big a die hard as anyone on this Board. And I'm a big fan of Coach Wojo as well. I'm mildly optimistic for this year but I think either we win enough to be in the top half of the Big East and make the tournament or look for a drop-off in basketball revenue. I like our guys and I think they'll get it done.

Understand, I am not asking for his head. Quite the contrary. But I'm telling you that even at a Jesuit Catholic University, money doesn't talk -- it screams!

There is a big difference between missing the tourney 3 years in a row in say, year 7 of your tenure and missing the first three years in your tenure when the cupboard was bare.  Wojo is building a program from scratch and many of us, including the administration, are on board.