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Author Topic: Big East Coaching Stability.  (Read 25359 times)

muwarrior69

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Big East Coaching Stability.
« on: July 24, 2016, 03:04:57 PM »
I don't have insider privileges. If someone does I was wondering if any coaches besides Mullen were considering other opportunities.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/insider/story/_/id/17014946/stability-rankings-big-east-basketball-coaches

#UnleashSean

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Re: Big East Coaching Stability.
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2016, 04:22:20 PM »
Insider only?

MUDPT

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Re: Big East Coaching Stability.
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2016, 06:28:30 PM »
I'll copy Wojo's

He didn't inherit much from Buzz Williams, and he struggled in his rookie campaign. This past season was an improvement with 20 wins, but there was no postseason appearance. Now Wojo will have some pressure to get to the NCAA tournament over the next two years, and he'll have to do it without Henry Ellenson, who left for the NBA after just one season. Wojo did get a two-year extension in 2015 that runs through 2022, but he'll need to get to the tournament in the next couple of years or else he'll feel the heat.

MUDPT

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Re: Big East Coaching Stability.
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2016, 06:29:48 PM »
3rd least stable with Mullin and Leito only ones behind him.

Herman Cain

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Re: Big East Coaching Stability.
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2016, 06:38:20 PM »
I'll copy Wojo's

He didn't inherit much from Buzz Williams, and he struggled in his rookie campaign. This past season was an improvement with 20 wins, but there was no postseason appearance. Now Wojo will have some pressure to get to the NCAA tournament over the next two years, and he'll have to do it without Henry Ellenson, who left for the NBA after just one season. Wojo did get a two-year extension in 2015 that runs through 2022, but he'll need to get to the tournament in the next couple of years or else he'll feel the heat.

Wojo is not on any hot seat. Lovell is in love with him and he is recruiting a lot of good talent.
Winning is overrated. The only time it is really important is in surgery and war.
                       ---Al McGuire

ChitownSpaceForRent

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Re: Big East Coaching Stability.
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2016, 06:47:54 PM »
Wojo is not on any hot seat. Lovell is in love with him and he is recruiting a lot of good talent.

His seat is gonna be pretty warm if there's no postseason play next year. It's not too much to ask for a NCAA tournament in 3 seasons.

Nukem2

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Re: Big East Coaching Stability.
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2016, 07:00:24 PM »
His seat is gonna be pretty warm if there's no postseason play next year. It's not too much to ask for a NCAA tournament in 3 seasons.
I give him 4 seasons.  That first season was a total throwaway given the circumstances.

ChitownSpaceForRent

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Re: Big East Coaching Stability.
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2016, 07:04:28 PM »
I give him 4 seasons.  That first season was a total throwaway given the circumstances.

But in reality, we should expect to make the tournament every year with the occasional off year. Even Kentucky and North Carolina miss the tourney from time to time, but not 3 straight years.

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Big East Coaching Stability.
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2016, 07:40:56 PM »
Honestly no substance to the article. Here's there ranking of coach stability from least to most and a brief summary of their justification:

1. Chris Mullin-Look bored last season
2. Dave Leitao- Depaul is a tough gig
3. Wojo- Will be on the hotseat if 3 years of no postseason (not true)
4. Kevin Willard- Was on hot seat but will get extended if he makes the ncaa again
5. JT3 - Poor postseason performance but his last name is Thompson
6. Chris Holtmann- Was mentioned with Georgia Tech job and could be mentioned with more
7. Chris Mack- Will stay unless a blue blood come calling
8. Jay Wright- Will stay unless the NBA comes calling
9. Ed Cooley- Providence native who has had a ton of success
10. Too successful to get rid of, not enough to be poached
TAMU

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Loose Cannon

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Re: Big East Coaching Stability.
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2016, 07:48:54 PM »
But in reality, we should expect to make the tournament every year with the occasional off year. Even Kentucky and North Carolina miss the tourney from time to time, but not 3 straight years.

Yeah,  remember 2013 Kentucky loses in the First round of the NIT to Robert Morris..........Robert Morris never Trailed in the game.
" Love is Space and Time measured by the Heart. "  M Proust

4everwarriors

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Re: Big East Coaching Stability.
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2016, 08:02:04 PM »
Gotta wait 5 years ta judge, ai na?
"Give 'Em Hell, Al"

ChitownSpaceForRent

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Re: Big East Coaching Stability.
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2016, 08:05:13 PM »
Yeah,  remember 2013 Kentucky loses in the First round of the NIT to Robert Morris..........Robert Morris never Trailed in the game.

That's what I was referring to. I don't expect anybody to make the tourney every single year but 3 years without a post season is silly.

naginiF

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Re: Big East Coaching Stability.
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2016, 08:15:18 PM »
That's what I was referring to. I don't expect anybody to make the tourney every single year but 3 years without a post season is silly.
your expectations of us being Kentucky or UNC may be delusional at best.  if that is your expectation i would suggest getting a secondary degree (not from UK unless you want to toss your $ away).

unless you want to be disappointed you should drop the expectations down a notch.

edit:  queue the "i only judge MU hoops success from 2003 and forward" vs. "easy there young man, we had great periods of success and 'failure' long before you were in the work force so respect the process......success will come" debate
« Last Edit: July 24, 2016, 08:22:38 PM by naginiF »

ChitownSpaceForRent

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Re: Big East Coaching Stability.
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2016, 09:32:06 PM »
your expectations of us being Kentucky or UNC may be delusional at best.  if that is your expectation i would suggest getting a secondary degree (not from UK unless you want to toss your $ away).

unless you want to be disappointed you should drop the expectations down a notch.

edit:  queue the "i only judge MU hoops success from 2003 and forward" vs. "easy there young man, we had great periods of success and 'failure' long before you were in the work force so respect the process......success will come" debate

I know, but is it really too much to ask to make a postseason appearance almost every year? If MU doesn't make it this year, that's 4 straight years. Yes I know one (probably two) were due to Bazz, but it's not like I'm setting unreasonable expectations here.

Gato78

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Re: Big East Coaching Stability.
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2016, 09:42:32 PM »
Administration (Lovell) is exceptionally pleased with Wojo. The relationship is superb. It is viewed that Wojo is a perfect cultural fit for the University. There is no hot seat. The desire is for stability and riding out the down times in favor of a long term approach. Period.  He is likely our coach for a substantial period of time.

GoldenWarrior11

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Re: Big East Coaching Stability.
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2016, 10:09:26 PM »
JTIII should be a lot higher on the list, IMO.  G'Town, in addition to us, has been the biggest disappointment in the New Big East. 

GooooMarquette

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Re: Big East Coaching Stability.
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2016, 11:05:55 PM »
The rankings make no sense.  Leitao is at a place where the expectations and resources have long been near zero.  If he even gets them to the top half of the BE every third or fourth season, they'll probably build a statue of him on campus.

And if JTIII gets credit for his last name (i.e. past connections with the program), shouldn't Mullin too?

NorthernDancerColt

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Re: Big East Coaching Stability.
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2016, 12:51:18 AM »
JTIII should be a lot higher on the list, IMO.  G'Town, in addition to us, has been the biggest disappointment in the New Big East.
I don't think we should be judged on the same merits as Georgetown. Yes, conventional wisdom at the founding of the new Big East was "we were right-at-the- top competitive in arguably the greatest league there ever was, so we will make mince-meat of the new league." But then...Vander brain fart....Epic disaster re the Pilarz/LW/Buzz dynamic... Buzz sees writing on proverbial wall and decides he has done enough for the program, and since he feels as if he better cut n run before the decision isn't his, leaves an absolutely bare cupboard just as we are trying to gain a foothold in the new league.
   Coach WOJO came to our absolute rescue, and was exactly what we needed at that crucial juncture. We have not only a storied history, but an amazing knack as a program to get the best fit possible at the exact time we need it. Major kudos to Bill Cords.  KO built back a left-for-dead, moribund program. When he left, we needed stability and a tactical eye, and got that in spades with Mike Deane. Tom Crean was a public-relations bonanza when energy and enthusiasm for the program were on the wane.
   After TC's maddening and depressing departure to Indiana, we needed a guy with a full-on chip on his shoulder and something to prove, and Buzz Williams was ordained by God to coach for post-TC Marquette! He was just the guy to make a bunch of  jilted, pushed-around players ready to jump through walls of fire for him. He added more junkyard dogs to his pound, and the lack of media respect from the usual guilty parties, cough, ESPN, only  shoveled more coal into his blast furnace. There was definitely a down-side to his approach, and there were some embarrassing and sad moments amidst all the winning.
   I always knew if/when we lost Buzz, he would not leave well, and his UNO departure tipped his hand. All this said, Steve Wojciechowski was born to coach here. We could not have landed a better fit for what we want to be. You can just see the type of people he is recruiting...actual students who have an amazing aptitude for highly skilled, team-style basketball. Buzz should be lauded for turning good kids lives around, and he recruited to his style (see the "F with em" comment vs UW). Wojo is ahead-of-schedule, all things considered. As good as a fit as he is for our university, the new BigEast may be an even better fit for MU. Special conference for a special coach at an extraordinary place. Patience.
Zenyatta has a lot....a lot... of ground to make up. She gets there from here she’d be a super horse......what’s this.....Zenyatta hooked to the grandstand side....Zenyatta flying on the outside....this....is...un-belieeeeeevable!...looked impossible at the top of the stretch...

Herman Cain

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Re: Big East Coaching Stability.
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2016, 01:05:44 AM »
His seat is gonna be pretty warm if there's no postseason play next year. It's not too much to ask for a NCAA tournament in 3 seasons.
In a more perfect world you are correct.

Unfortunately , the President of the University is still star struck by the Duke connection. Look at the body language when you see these two together. The new AD is a corporate hack kind of guy and follows lock stop with his boss( it is good work if you can get it so I don't blame him) and will tow the company line so no help there.

So , until we get a new MU President , we are stuck with Wojo and will have to make the best of the situation for quite a while. The way I look at it, at least Wojo is a good recruiter, which is why I eagerly applaud all his recruiting efforts . That way, If Lovell eventually comes to his senses, the new coach that succeeds Wojo will arrive with a full cupboard. Wojos lousy coaching is why I am keen on getting some 20 win seasons while we are not making tournaments. Optically the 20 wins gives the impression to the media and casual observers that we are still relevant in the upper tier of the game. Which is why it is silly not to have the 31st game. Someday we will hire a good young coach who is a proven winner and knows how to motivate kids once they are actually  on campus. In the meantime  Wojo can keep bringing in guys like Hauser, Howard, Eke, Bailey etc and we will at least be able to tread water until help arrives. If we can get Lewis, John and Tillman the new coach will have a decent baseline of junior and senior talent when he arrives.

Winning is overrated. The only time it is really important is in surgery and war.
                       ---Al McGuire

NorthernDancerColt

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Re: Big East Coaching Stability.
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2016, 01:24:45 AM »
In a more perfect world you are correct.

Unfortunately , the President of the University is still star struck by the Duke connection. Look at the body language when you see these two together. The new AD is a corporate hack kind of guy and follows lock stop with his boss( it is good work if you can get it so I don't blame him) and will tow the company line so no help there.

So , until we get a new MU President , we are stuck with Wojo and will have to make the best of the situation for quite a while. The way I look at it, at least Wojo is a good recruiter, which is why I eagerly applaud all his recruiting efforts . That way, If Lovell eventually comes to his senses, the new coach that succeeds Wojo will arrive with a full cupboard. Wojos lousy coaching is why I am keen on getting some 20 win seasons while we are not making tournaments. Optically the 20 wins gives the impression to the media and casual observers that we are still relevant in the upper tier of the game. Which is why it is silly not to have the 31st game. Someday we will hire a good young coach who is a proven winner and knows how to motivate kids once they are actually  on campus. In the meantime  Wojo can keep bringing in guys like Hauser, Howard, Eke, Bailey etc and we will at least be able to tread water until help arrives. If we can get Lewis, John and Tillman the new coach will have a decent baseline of junior and senior talent when he arrives.

What you see as Lovell/Scholl/Cords being "star-struck by the Duke connection", I see as L/S/C being convinced they got the perfect post-Buzz hire, just as Buzz was the perfect post-Crean guy, Crean post-Deane, Deane post-O'Neill, ONeill post-Dukiet. And there the chain breaks...lol, although Majerus post-Raymonds wasn't a bad set-up, it's just that guys with no patience and little to go by to judge the new coach's acumen (like MU fan in NY ) jumped the gun on Rick and a gem was lost forever. Thankfully, said gem continued to hold MU close to his heart up until his untimely passing.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2016, 01:27:26 AM by ZenyattasTapitColt »
Zenyatta has a lot....a lot... of ground to make up. She gets there from here she’d be a super horse......what’s this.....Zenyatta hooked to the grandstand side....Zenyatta flying on the outside....this....is...un-belieeeeeevable!...looked impossible at the top of the stretch...

#UnleashSean

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Re: Big East Coaching Stability.
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2016, 01:28:11 AM »
Wojo is not on any hot seat. Lovell is in love with him and he is recruiting a lot of good talent.

If we finish in the bottom of the big East without a ncaa appearance his seat is going to be on hot coals.

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Big East Coaching Stability.
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2016, 07:37:40 AM »
If we finish in the bottom of the big East without a ncaa appearance his seat is going to be on hot coals.

Well, maybe on imaginary ones inside your head. But not with anyone that actually matters.
TAMU

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Frenns Liquor Depot

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Re: Big East Coaching Stability.
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2016, 07:48:39 AM »
Personally, I don't get this debate - of course Wojo has 100% unwavering support.  If he doesn't they should just fire him otherwise you get yourself into a Buzz situation or have programs using it to recruit against you.

On the flip side, to act like the results over the next couple seasons do not impact this support at some future date is silly.  If we don't start winning again Wojo will be gone. 

Good news is everyone knows this and is trying their best to ensure it doesn't happen.

GB Warrior

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Re: Big East Coaching Stability.
« Reply #23 on: July 25, 2016, 08:11:01 AM »
I see it this way: I'm disappointed that we have not really even gotten close to post-season play since Wojo has been here, but there isn't a part of me that doesn't think he's building this team the right way. We swung for the fences with Henry hoping we could accelerate the process. We missed. Maybe that hurt us under the theory of replacement (assuming there was another reasonably ranked recruit that would have come in his place and developed for 4 years), but I don't think any other team would have done differently.

I expect us to compete for postseason play this year, but I don't expect we get it. I hope to see the start of a successful run, and I hope to see continued situational coaching improvements. Honestly, I think the hot seat starts when the remnants of the Buzz era are gone and the success doesn't come. I'm optimistic that we won't get to that point.

Dawson Rental

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Re: Big East Coaching Stability.
« Reply #24 on: July 25, 2016, 08:31:55 AM »
I know, but is it really too much to ask to make a postseason appearance almost every year? If MU doesn't make it this year, that's 4 straight years. Yes I know one (probably two) were due to Bazz, but it's not like I'm setting unreasonable expectations here.

You are being unreasonable because if MU fires Wojo who are they going to get who's better.  A coaching change leading to improvement is not a given.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2016, 08:41:16 AM by Crean to Ann Arbor »
You actually have a degree from Marquette?

Quote from: muguru
No...and after reading many many psosts from people on this board that do...I have to say I'm MUCH better off, if this is the type of "intelligence" a degree from MU gets you. It sure is on full display I will say that.

 

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