Seat Selection Process -

[GOO]

If we'd only give up the WI tax deduction, I am all for giving it up in exchange for doing reseating every two or three years... the WI tax rate is about 7%, an easy trade off in my opinion. 

So for a thousand in "seat donations" I give up $70 bucks that I'd otherwise get back from WI?  And in exchange I don't have to be available and log in to go through this idiot process each year... And, I can pick actual seats instead of mystery seats in a certain row?  Sign me up MU ticket office. 

The WI DOR butting into reseating processes gives you an idea of how stupid rules gets made and enforced in WI.  Ignore the big stuff, give $ to political donors from slush funds (see WEDC), but get involved in reseating so that one cannot pick an exact seat.  Ya, makes lots of sense WI DOR, lots of sense.  Thanks!   

[brewcity77]

Marquette would have to make up the $1 million or so in revenue they get from seat donations. That would require doubling the price of the donation and rolling it into the price of tickets, possibly even more than doubling it as everyone involved would want a piece of the now untaxed revenue.

I get that people don't care much about the write off on their taxes, but it's not about you. It's about Marquette and $1M+ in tax free donations.

You don't have to trust me, call Joe True. There is no way this will be changed, and no way it is fiscally viable for Marquette to do so. These threads are a complete non-starter.

[MU62]

I could be mistaken but I don't think the Badgers have ever gone to  reseating.  I think for many of the the better seats in FB and BB they charge some extra service charge but it is not a donation.  I recall shortly after MU went to reseating there was some discussion by Badger fans about having to do this.  I have never heard that it has happened.  I guess because they are loaded, they don't have to worry about a Blue and Gold type Fund like MU does.     

[brewcity77]

I could be mistaken but I don't think the Badgers have ever gone to  reseating.  I think for many of the the better seats in FB and BB they charge some extra service charge but it is not a donation.  I recall shortly after MU went to reseating there was some discussion by Badger fans about having to do this.  I have never heard that it has happened.  I guess because they are loaded, they don't have to worry about a Blue and Gold type Fund like MU does.     

Pretty sure that's inaccurate. At least at the time, the Badgers had a system like this in place years before Marquette started it.

Neither UW-M nor GB charge seating donations, so they have a system like the old one.

[rocket surgeon]

you can't keep up with donating enough/more to the blue n gold fund to keep up with the joneses to keep you ahead of the "ballgame".  meaning, how much am i going to need to GIVE in order to keep my spot or move up the ladder to be in position just to keep the seats you had.  i loved the 1st row/railing seats of the upper deck.  they were all i wanted-perfect! 

as it turns out, i would be paying for the seats coming or going.  what's the difference if i get the write-off but pay less for the tix but more to the blue n gold(points) or don't get the write-off and just pay more for the tix that i really wanted and KEEP them for a few years?

i had season 4 tix for 35 years...it was fun until they did what they are doing.  i know,  they don't miss me one bit. now, i can go when i want or just watch them on my big screen with the surround turned on to live and it's quite a bit cheaper.

btw, dgies-i can relate to your experience-my brother-in-law and i inherited his dad's milwaukee package, packer season tix.  we had all the milwaukee games-got to know all the guys over the years.  it was a blast!

[GooooMarquette]

Marquette would have to make up the $1 million or so in revenue they get from seat donations. That would require doubling the price of the donation and rolling it into the price of tickets, possibly even more than doubling it as everyone involved would want a piece of the now untaxed revenue.

I get that people don't care much about the write off on their taxes, but it's not about you. It's about Marquette and $1M+ in tax free donations.

You don't have to trust me, call Joe True. There is no way this will be changed, and no way it is fiscally viable for Marquette to do so. These threads are a complete non-starter.

Perhaps MU believes it is not fiscally viable to change.  But I'm not sure how much longer it will be fiscally viable to keep the current system in place, and alienate (and ultimately lose) many long time season ticket holders.

If it really is about "we need X dollars to keep the athletic program going," why didn't ticket prices go down when the TV deal got better?

[brewcity77]

Perhaps MU believes it is not fiscally viable to change.  But I'm not sure how much longer it will be fiscally viable to keep the current system in place, and alienate (and ultimately lose) many long time season ticket holders.

If it really is about "we need X dollars to keep the athletic program going," why didn't ticket prices go down when the TV deal got better?

I would guess (not 100% on this) that the funds are earmarked differently by Marquette. The TV money may go to basketball upgrades like the improvements to the Al. The B&G fund money connected on seat donations I believe supports all the other sports, and as we add and expand lacrosse and other sports, those financial requirements will only go up.

[Benny B]

I'm sure if you drill down to the core of this issue, you'll somewhere find a dash school alum in Madison who said, "damn, it sucks that Becky's been doing it like this for years, so let's see if we can stick it to MU too."

[GooooMarquette]

I'm sure if you drill down to the core of this issue, you'll somewhere find a dash school alum in Madison who said, "damn, it sucks that Becky's been doing it like this for years, so let's see if we can stick it to MU too."

Wasn't the governor a one-time MU student?  Time to fire the whole Department of Revenue.

[Mr. Nielsen]

Pretty sure that's inaccurate. At least at the time, the Badgers had a system like this in place years before Marquette started it.

Neither UW-M nor GB charge seating donations, so they have a system like the old one.

Hey Brew, how was Menards on Memorial Day. 

UWM does have three levels for seating donations. it's per account, not per seats.

As for UW football, they don't have a reseating process.

[bilsu]

It is a state requirement having to do with the tax deductibility of your required contribution. At least that's what I've been told.

The IRS determines what is a tax deductible donation. They made the rule that donations for reseating are 80% deductible. What got the State involved was the loss of sales tax. Tickets are subject to sales tax and donations are not. The State came in and said, if you can pick your exact seats or if the seats are for more than one year the per seat donation is really a ticket price and therefore are subject to sales tax. That is the reason you can now pick your row, but not your actual seat and it now must be done every year. Being entitled to your same seat for more than one year is considered a license and that would also be subject to sales tax. I not sure, if there would be any effect on donations above the mandatory seat donation. Assuming it does not it would be a significantly less headache, if they raised the ticket prices and got rid of the mandatory donation. However, it would cost the ticket holder money. Assuming you itemize you lose the $560 deduction on a $700 reseating donation and you would have to pay 5.6% sales tax on the $700. MU is already charging too much for the product they are delivering, so this change could result in another significant loss in season ticket holders.

[PBRme]

I know that for the seats in the first three rows of the middle sections on both sides are $875.00 season (~$46.00/ea) and the donation is $3600 (about $190/game additional).  So I think the seats would be about $235 per game per seat without the donation.    It's roughly $9,000.00 for two seats for the season.

[GGGG]

The IRS determines what is a tax deductible donation. They made the rule that donations for reseating are 80% deductible. What got the State involved was the loss of sales tax. Tickets are subject to sales tax and donations are not. The State came in and said, if you can pick your exact seats or if the seats are for more than one year the per seat donation is really a ticket price and therefore are subject to sales tax. That is the reason you can now pick your row, but not your actual seat and it now must be done every year. Being entitled to your same seat for more than one year is considered a license and that would also be subject to sales tax. I not sure, if there would be any effect on donations above the mandatory seat donation. Assuming it does not it would be a significantly less headache, if they raised the ticket prices and got rid of the mandatory donation. However, it would cost the ticket holder money. Assuming you itemize you lose the $560 deduction on a $700 reseating donation and you would have to pay 5.6% sales tax on the $700. MU is already charging too much for the product they are delivering, so this change could result in another significant loss in season ticket holders.

OK thank you for that explanation.  That makes a great deal of sense.

[Benny B]

It's not just seating donations, but any donation made for which seating preferences are granted (i.e. priority point) are subject to the 80/20 rule.  So all of those donations to Blue & Gold, the MU general fund, Hank's Raffle, etc. can only be deducted to 80% if you're accepting priority points.  I'm sure there are hundreds, perhaps thousands, of people who don't take points and therefore deduct the full 100%.

What I don't get is why Wisconsin DOR made this determination that >1 year or exact seat was tantamount to an added ticket cost or seat license.  It's not like this is a huge money-maker for WiDOR, and it's not like it's going to be a rampant problem if the rules are relaxed... after all, you only have two institutions in the state that do this.  What really kills me is that WiDOR establishes these rules based on the fact that they've made a determination that something is taxable, yet they allow UW and MU to circumvent these same rules by selecting rows instead of actual seats.  If this is taxable revenue, then get rid of the "select by row" loophole and collect the taxes; otherwise, get rid of the rule completely.

Like I said, it appears obstructive simply for the sake of being obstructive.  There is absolutely no logic as to why re-seating should be done this way.

[drewm88]

The IRS determines what is a tax deductible donation. They made the rule that donations for reseating are 80% deductible. What got the State involved was the loss of sales tax. Tickets are subject to sales tax and donations are not. The State came in and said, if you can pick your exact seats or if the seats are for more than one year the per seat donation is really a ticket price and therefore are subject to sales tax. That is the reason you can now pick your row, but not your actual seat and it now must be done every year. Being entitled to your same seat for more than one year is considered a license and that would also be subject to sales tax. I not sure, if there would be any effect on donations above the mandatory seat donation. Assuming it does not it would be a significantly less headache, if they raised the ticket prices and got rid of the mandatory donation. However, it would cost the ticket holder money. Assuming you itemize you lose the $560 deduction on a $700 reseating donation and you would have to pay 5.6% sales tax on the $700. MU is already charging too much for the product they are delivering, so this change could result in another significant loss in season ticket holders.

To me, this sounds like MU could just fork over 5.6% of the donations to the state and be done with it. I assume I'm misunderstanding, so please (anyone) let me know what I'm missing.

[brewcity77]

Hey Brew, how was Menards on Memorial Day. 

UWM does have three levels for seating donations. it's per account, not per seats.

As for UW football, they don't have a reseating process.

About what you'd expect. My original plan didn't require me to go that day, then Mrs brew made some suggestions that required a shopping trip.

How can they not have a reseating process? That can't be accurate or they couldn't ever add new STHs and seats would never improve.

[GGGG]

To me, this sounds like MU could just fork over 5.6% of the donations to the state and be done with it. I assume I'm misunderstanding, so please (anyone) let me know what I'm missing.

That's a fairly substantial figure.  They raise about $4.5 million or so every year.  5.6% is $250,000.

[BrewCity83]

That's a fairly substantial figure.  They raise about $4.5 million or so every year.  5.6% is $250,000.

Agreed, $250,000 per year is fairly substantial, but how much do you think it costs the athletic department each year to stage the reseating process?  After what they'd save in every year reseating, and the amount of grief that STHs endure to the extent that some are lost over the annual process, the $250,000 probably gets whittled down to near nothing pretty fast.  It may be worth it to just bite the bullet and pay the damn 5.6%.

[Nukem2]

Agreed, $250,000 per year is fairly substantial, but how much do you think it costs the athletic department each year to stage the reseating process?  After what they'd save in every year reseating, and the amount of grief that STHs endure to the extent that some are lost over the annual process, the $250,000 probably gets whittled down to near nothing pretty fast.  It may be worth it to just bite the bullet and pay the damn 5.6%.

Just charge it to the STHs just like when you buy something at the store.

[GGGG]

Agreed, $250,000 per year is fairly substantial, but how much do you think it costs the athletic department each year to stage the reseating process? 

Not very much.  This stuff is very automated.  Nowhere close to $250,000

After what they'd save in every year reseating, and the amount of grief that STHs endure to the extent that some are lost over the annual process, the $250,000 probably gets whittled down to near nothing pretty fast.  It may be worth it to just bite the bullet and pay the damn 5.6%.

That is likely a higher figure but one that is difficult to quantify.

[MU62]

I noticed MUPanther's response to Brewcity 77 stated the Badgers don't do reseating for football.  I mentioned earlier that I did not think they did and Brewcity refuted it.  They do have deductible donations required for a lot of the football seats.  They call them PSD's.   I don't see anything and when I search the net as to reseating I saw a 2012 article where Alvarez said they did not rule it out and he would be open to the idea of reseating to reward generous donors.  I at this point have emailed some folks hoping to get an answer but if the Vadgers don't do reseating, then why do we have to?  Lets pin down this question as I think it is important in this discussion. 

[real chili 83]

In answer to your question about the value of the deduction - yes, I would gladly give it up.  I already drive 9 hours round trip to the 10 or so home games I attend

Chick and Glow, quit yer bitchin' 

That is impressive.  Do you make time for Chili too each trip?   

What part or the hinterlands do you hail from?

[GooooMarquette]

Chick and Glow, quit yer bitchin' 

That is impressive.  Do you make time for Chili too each trip?   

What part or the hinterlands do you hail from?

Rochester, MN.  The upcoming season will be our 18th year up here, with season tix the whole time.

I'd love to stop for chili, but the missus puts her foot down.

We do frequent Sobelman's though....

[real chili 83]

Rochester, MN.  The upcoming season will be our 18th year up here, with season tix the whole time.

I'd love to stop for chili, but the missus puts her foot down.

We do frequent Sobelman's though....

4.5  hours from Rochester?  You are crusing.

[Dr. Blackheart]

As a note, the inventory is showing well in advance of 30 clicks...