Former MU Target

[Mane37]

Just an FYI.  Hope he gets it together, I was quite disappointed we didn't get Nunn.

http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/illinois-dismisses-starting-guard-kendrick-nunn-after-he-pleads-guilty-to-battery/

[rocket surgeon]

My gosh!  Unless there has been a pattern, other disciplinary issues, unwillingness to admit to his wrongs, etc. pretty harsh. These are young guys who can make mistakes. No, I do not tolerate spousal/realationship violence. I have been married for 32 years, together for 35 and have never hit my wife.  There must be some other issues here and if so, I hope he sees this as a warning sign and gets help

[MuMark]

The Illini have had a lot of issues recently.

This was obviously the last straw for the AD.

[We R Final Four]

My gosh!  Unless there has been a pattern, other disciplinary issues, unwillingness to admit to his wrongs, etc. pretty harsh. These are young guys who can make mistakes. No, I do not tolerate spousal/realationship violence. I have been married for 32 years, together for 35 and have never hit my wife.  There must be some other issues here and if so, I hope he sees this as a warning sign and gets help

? So you make a statement that you don't tolerate this type of violence and then question why the school decided not to tolerate it either?

[wadesworld]

I thought I remembered him having other leagal issues at Illinois but I could be wrong on that.

[MU82]

My gosh!  Unless there has been a pattern, other disciplinary issues, unwillingness to admit to his wrongs, etc. pretty harsh. These are young guys who can make mistakes. No, I do not tolerate spousal/realationship violence. I have been married for 32 years, together for 35 and have never hit my wife.  There must be some other issues here and if so, I hope he sees this as a warning sign and gets help

Yeah, rocket, but how many times has your wife hit you?

As for Nunn ... I knew there was something squirmy about him. No wonder Buzz cooled on him.

[Tugg Speedman]

Jaylon Tate was Nunn's HS teammate at Simeon (and both were HS teammates of STj and Jabari Parker).  Tate and Nunn were teammates and roommates at IL!

Tate was arrested one week before Nunn for hitting his girlfriend too. 

That was the fourth arrest this year of an Illini ball player.

The
Illini are a dumpster fire.  Why does Groce still have a job?

[rocket surgeon]

? So you make a statement that you don't tolerate this type of violence and then question why the school decided not to tolerate it either?

you did read my whole post, right?  my point was, if there had been a pattern of issues INCLUDING using his girlfriend as a punching bag-yes the univ. should jettison him.  if this were his first time, and he was humble and accepted responsibility and treatment, then it was harsh.  if nunn had been involved in other issues as well and this was the final straw-see ya

[rocket surgeon]

Yeah, rocket, but how many times has your wife hit you?

As for Nunn ... I knew there was something squirmy about him. No wonder Buzz cooled on him.

i let the little gal flail away at will.  no harm.  us big strong men can take it and if it allows her to get her aggressions out-what the hey-ein'er?  sometimes i'll even act injured just so she'll stop.  when she leaves, i bust out laughing.  ya see MU, it's all about letting them think they have the upper hand and are winning.  that's a big key to our 30-some years of bliss.  other times, we will incorporate it into our intimate times-you know, a little S & M for the middle agers just changes thing s up.  when you're doing it 4-5-6 times a week, one needs a little variety,  the escaped jailer and wardens wife is a mrs rocket favorite.

now if nunn were to have the roles reversed-not cool-be a real man

[We R Final Four]

you did read my whole post, right?  my point was, if there had been a pattern of issues INCLUDING using his girlfriend as a punching bag-yes the univ. should jettison him.  if this were his first time, and he was humble and accepted responsibility and treatment, then it was harsh.  if nunn had been involved in other issues as well and this was the final straw-see ya

Right--so what you are saying is that you do have a tolerance for spousal violence.
It seems that when there is a pattern you have less tolerance.

[Dawson Rental]

Leron Black, Illinois starting PF is out for the first four games after pulling a knife on a nightclub bouncer.

Regarding the dumpster fire comment, From the Champaign News-Gazette in March:

"Nunn’s arrest is the fourth for the Illinois basketball program since August.

Darius Paul was arrested in August in France during the team’s foreign tour, Leron Black was arrested and charged with a felony for allegedly brandishing a knife outside an Urbana night club in February and Tate was arrested last week for misdemeanor domestic battery. The alleged victim in Tate’s case told his attorney he didn’t do it but the charges remain on file against him."

Jaylon Tate was reinstated to the team this week after prosecutors decided not to pursue domestic battery charges against him.  The victim was not cooperating with prosecutors and they were going to have to use her statements to other as evidence of the attack, and evidently decided it wasn't worth it.

[rocket surgeon]

Right--so what you are saying is that you do have a tolerance for spousal violence.
It seems that when there is a pattern you have less tolerance.

i see what you are trying to do here-let me try this one more time just to try to be clear. i have NO tolerance.  it is always unacceptable.  there.  now, should someone's life be ruined by it?  this is where we need to use some critical thinking skills.  as i mentioned above-what were the circumstances, was it a slap, a beatdown, was it the first time or is there a pattern, is there humility and a sense that a wrong occurred?  what is the rest of the story?  all these things should be taken into account. 

[Pakuni]

Jaylon Tate was Nunn's HS teammate at Simeon (and both were HS teammates of STj and Jabari Parker).  Tate and Nunn were teammates and roommates at IL!

Tate was arrested one week before Nunn for hitting his girlfriend too. 

That was the fourth arrest this year of an Illini ball player.

The
Illini are a dumpster fire.  Why does Groce still have a job?

Because after firing their AD with $2.5 million left on his contract and then firing one football coach who they might have to pay the $3.1 million left on his contract and then firing another football coach with $1.2 million left on his contract, they're not in position to fire Groce and pay him $1.7 million a year for three more years, and then hire another coach.  Especially after giving Lovie Smith $3.5 million a year.

[GGGG]

Yeah Groce should be happy that the Illinois athletic department has been a bastion of incompetence and that he's at the end of the line.  His time is coming though.

[Dawson Rental]

i see what you are trying to do here-let me try this one more time just to try to be clear. i have NO tolerance.  it is always unacceptable.  there.  now, should someone's life be ruined by it?  this is where we need to use some critical thinking skills.  as i mentioned above-what were the circumstances, was it a slap, a beatdown, was it the first time or is there a pattern, is there humility and a sense that a wrong occurred?  what is the rest of the story?  all these things should be taken into account.

From the Champaign News-Gazette:

"“Neighbors call 911 to report a loud argument. They hear a woman yelling, ‘Get off of me’ and a man yelling, ‘Give me my money,’” Ziegler said.

Police talked to the 20-year-old woman at the door of her apartment. Nunn was in the living room but no one else was in the apartment, he said.

“Initially, they both indicate it is just a friendship and that nothing physical happened,” the prosecutor said.

Police officers talked to Nunn and asked him to leave. Ziegler said there was no arrest at the time because both Nunn and the woman said nothing happened.

Ziegler said some time later, the woman called the police and said that she and Nunn do indeed have a relationship and that something had happened. Officers returned to her apartment.

“She said they were arguing about their relationship and whether or not she owed him money and at some point he did push her and strike her in the back of the head. During the physical part of the altercation is when Champaign police showed up,” Ziegler said.

Ziegler said police reported seeing red marks on her neck and shoulder. They took photos."

and

"The woman who was allegedly battered by Nunn is not the mother of his newborn."

[DienerTime34]

Sounds like the Illinois AD is having Nunn of it. 

[MerrittsMustache]

Ziegler said some time later, the woman called the police and said that she and Nunn do indeed have a relationship and that something had happened. Officers returned to her apartment.

“She said they were arguing about their relationship and whether or not she owed him money and at some point he did push her and strike her in the back of the head. During the physical part of the altercation is when Champaign police showed up,” Ziegler said.

Ziegler said police reported seeing red marks on her neck and shoulder. They took photos."

FWIW, if that was a Marquette player, I wouldn't want him on the team representing my university. Good move by the Illini admin.

[goldeneagle91114]

So, will wojo take a flyer on Nunn?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

you did read my whole post, right?  my point was, if there had been a pattern of issues INCLUDING using his girlfriend as a punching bag-yes the univ. should jettison him.  if this were his first time, and he was humble and accepted responsibility and treatment, then it was harsh.  if nunn had been involved in other issues as well and this was the final straw-see ya

i see what you are trying to do here-let me try this one more time just to try to be clear. i have NO tolerance.  it is always unacceptable.  there.  now, should someone's life be ruined by it?  this is where we need to use some critical thinking skills.  as i mentioned above-what were the circumstances, was it a slap, a beatdown, was it the first time or is there a pattern, is there humility and a sense that a wrong occurred?  what is the rest of the story?  all these things should be taken into account. 

I vehemently disagree. There is no place for domestic abuse on a college basketball team. Unless the allegations against him are proved to be completely fabricated than he should have his scholarship removed. I would hope that no one else would pick him up but I know that's not how the world works.

[Windyplayer]

I would hope that no one else would pick him up but I know that's not how the world works.

I wouldn't go that far. This is still kid going through the maturation process. Granted, he's way behind the curve seeing the complete lack of impulse/emotional control. Obviously, if he did something worse, society would demand the current punishment and jail time and rightly so. Taking the host of factors--age, working toward college degree, the despicable, but not completely unforgivable, act--he should probably get another chance with a university.

I do have problems with grown-ass men in professional leagues getting chance after chance for much worse criminal behavior.

[tower912]

Sounds like IU the last few years.

[brewcity77]

I remember we were in on Nunn early, and still in the running for Kris Dunn as well. I was dreaming of a Nunn and Dunn backcourt.

The Illini are a dumpster fire.  Why does Groce still have a job?

Great example of why you don't hire a coach based on one NCAA Tournament run. Groce had 2/3 losing conference seasons and a 23-25 record before his final season at Ohio.

They won the MAC Tournament despite finishing third in their division and beat Michigan and USF before falling to top seed UNC in overtime. One Sweet Sixteen run and suddenly he's a Big 10 coach?

Of course, Illinois swung and missed on the usual suspects (Stevens, Smart, etc) first, but Groce always felt like a bit of a desperation hire, hoping to catch lightning in a bottle from a guy with a very thin head coaching resume.

[MU82]

Great example of why you don't hire a coach based on one NCAA Tournament run. Groce had 2/3 losing conference seasons and a 23-25 record before his final season at Ohio.

They won the MAC Tournament despite finishing third in their division and beat Michigan and USF before falling to top seed UNC in overtime. One Sweet Sixteen run and suddenly he's a Big 10 coach?

Of course, Illinois swung and missed on the usual suspects (Stevens, Smart, etc) first, but Groce always felt like a bit of a desperation hire, hoping to catch lightning in a bottle from a guy with a very thin head coaching resume.

Yep.

I'd rather have a long-time assistant like Painter or Wojo than a mid-major guy with a resume like Groce's.

[GGGG]

To be fair, Groce was hired not only based on the S16 run, but because he was Thad Matta's longtime assistant at Butler, Xavier and OSU.  His resume isn't that much different than Painter's. 

[Pakuni]

To be fair, Groce was hired not only based on the S16 run, but because he was Thad Matta's longtime assistant at Butler, Xavier and OSU.  His resume isn't that much different than Painter's.

Right. In fact, when Crean left there were people around here who campaigned for Groce. The guy had very, very solid credentials as an assistant and was considered a top-tier recruiter.

[Golden Avalanche]

Right. In fact, when Crean left there were people around here who campaigned for Groce. The guy had very, very solid credentials as an assistant and was considered a top-tier recruiter.

Just want to third the notion that Groce came in highly thought of and any statement to the contrary is either revisionist history or ignorance regarding Groce's long time bona fides as Gargamel's #1.

[brewcity77]

Just want to third the notion that Groce came in highly thought of and any statement to the contrary is either revisionist history or ignorance regarding Groce's long time bona fides as Gargamel's #1.

Groce was one of the hot names at the time, but he wasn't near what Illinois thought they could get. His assistant time was fine but he probably doesn't get the job if not for the Sweet 16 run. Hiring a guy based largely on two wins is a bit short sighted.

You can poke holes in any resume, but at the time it felt like a reach and like he hadn't worked his way up to a Big 10 job. Needed to prove more than one good weekend in March.

[Pakuni]

Groce was one of the hot names at the time, but he wasn't near what Illinois thought they could get. 

John Wooden wouldn't be near what Illinois fans thought they could get.

His assistant time was fine but he probably doesn't get the job if not for the Sweet 16 run. Hiring a guy based largely on two wins is a bit short sighted.

Yeah, but that's not really true. John Groce had a lot more going for him than two wins, and nobody seriously questioned the hire when it was made.
I mean, was his resume lacking compared to guys like Fran McCaffrey or Bo Ryan when they landed Big 10 jobs? How about Billy Donovan when he got the Florida gig?
It's easy to question the hire in hindsight, but there were few if any people who thought Groce didn't have the credentials when he got the job.

[Golden Avalanche]

John Wooden wouldn't be near what Illinois fans thought they could get.

Yeah, but that's not really true. John Groce had a lot more going for him than two wins, and nobody seriously questioned the hire when it was made.
I mean, was his resume lacking compared to guys like Fran McCaffrey or Bo Ryan when they landed Big 10 jobs? How about Billy Donovan when he got the Florida gig?
It's easy to question the hire in hindsight, but there were few if any people who thought Groce didn't have the credentials when he got the job.

+1.

You handle these responses much classier then I would. It's revisionist history digging in to prove a point that shouldn't have been made in the first place.

[brewcity77]

John Wooden wouldn't be near what Illinois fans thought they could get.

That's totally fair 

Yeah, but that's not really true. John Groce had a lot more going for him than two wins, and nobody seriously questioned the hire when it was made.
I mean, was his resume lacking compared to guys like Fran McCaffrey or Bo Ryan when they landed Big 10 jobs? How about Billy Donovan when he got the Florida gig?
It's easy to question the hire in hindsight, but there were few if any people who thought Groce didn't have the credentials when he got the job.

Personally, I thought it was underwhelming at the time. So often teams will just go for the guy that made a Sweet 16 with an unexpected team and act as though they've proven something. Sometimes those work out, more often than not they seem not to. Groce had a really underwhelming resume at Ohio, in my opinion. He was their sixth choice candidate and at that point they were just scraping the bottom of the barrel. Maybe it's a testament to how undesirable the Illinois job is. And rather than saying my actions are to "question the hire in hindsight", I said this at the time:

He's #6! He's #6!

...on Illinois' wish list, that is.

Oh my lord...I didn't realize that. Wow, I'm laughing my ass off at that. And while he may have a rep as a recruiter...well, he has to do it at more than Ohio with castoffs from tOSU. It may well be an okay hire, but I don't think Groce grew up dreaming of the Orange and Blue. For better or worse, I give him 6 years.

Questionable hire then, looking like a poor hire now.

[Golden Avalanche]

That's totally fair 

Personally, I thought it was underwhelming at the time. So often teams will just go for the guy that made a Sweet 16 with an unexpected team and act as though they've proven something. Sometimes those work out, more often than not they seem not to. Groce had a really underwhelming resume at Ohio, in my opinion. He was their sixth choice candidate and at that point they were just scraping the bottom of the barrel. Maybe it's a testament to how undesirable the Illinois job is. And rather than saying my actions are to "question the hire in hindsight", I said this at the time:

Questionable hire then, looking like a poor hire now.

Eek. The arrogance has mushroomed.........

[Jay Bee]

Groce had Caris LeVert coming into Ohio...

..mistake not to bring him along to Illinois.

But the guy was doing good things pre-Illinois.

[brewcity77]

Eek. The arrogance has mushroomed.........

Pakuni said my comments were in hindsight. They weren't.