History / McGuire recruiting

[HoopsterBC]

My wife was cleaning the basement and she found many MU programs in the 60's and early 70's.  Good years. 

I was looking at one year particularly and Al recruited Mike Mills, Guy Lam, and Gary Grasck (sp.?).  That was 3 kids from Milwaukee that never saw the court.  I know Al did a great job of recruiting but more often then not, Al recruited an All-American type player? 

Whom did he miss out on that year, I think that was 67-68?  Was it Mel Davis, Ed Searcy?  He did get Gary Brell I think as well but he was a transfer. 

[Goose]

Hoopster

Very cool on having the old programs still. Those three guys seldom saw the court is right. Al always filled in with local guys after getting his All-American guys.

[tower912]

Murf/GR8one has rhapsodized poetic on this topic many times in many forums over the years.    I can't do it justice.    To summarize, Al would recruit about 8-9 guys who he knew would be players.    He would fill the rest of his roster with local guys who were not likely to be stars, with the intent that they would be practice fodder and occasional minutes if there was an injury or foul trouble.     Al didn't try to have 15 All-Americans.     In Murf world, this is still the preferred template.   

[oldwarrior81]

I saw a McGuire interview where he said he would focus on one top recruit each season.  In 13 seasons he landed 11 of those recruits.  The only two he missed on were both New York products. 
https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1314&dat=19970518&id=rbQpAAAAIBAJ&sjid=jPEDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6803,6195896&hl=en

Jim McMillan went to Columbia and was a first round pick of the Lakers in 1970. 

Brian Winters went to South Carolina and also was a first round pick of the Lakers in 1974.  The McGuire's lived down the street from the Winters in Rockaway Beach.  Al thought he could pull Winters away from Frank McGuire at South Carolina.   There was a time Allie McGuire was set to go to South Carolina if Winters choose Marquette.  Al said he lost out on a kid he babysat for but at least Frank let me keep my son.

[HoopsterBC]

I saw a McGuire interview where he said he would focus on one top recruit each season.  In 13 seasons he landed 11 of those recruits.  The only two he missed on were both New York products. 
https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1314&dat=19970518&id=rbQpAAAAIBAJ&sjid=jPEDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6803,6195896&hl=en

Jim McMillan went to Columbia and was a first round pick of the Lakers in 1970. 

Brian Winters went to South Carolina and also was a first round pick of the Lakers in 1974.  The McGuire's lived down the street from the Winters in Rockaway Beach.  Al thought he could pull Winters away from Frank McGuire at South Carolina.   There was a time Allie McGuire was set to go to South Carolina if Winters choose Marquette.  Al said he lost out on a kid he babysat for but at least Frank let me keep my son.

Brian Winters was not the year I mentioned.  To bad Brian did not come, Allie was not that good, nor as good as Winters.  McMillan was earlier, so there was somebody else.

[keefe]

He did get Gary Brell I think as well but he was a transfer.

The Goose came over from UWM of all damn places.

[thanooj]

The Goose came over from UWM of all damn places.

I thought he transferred to Marquette for South Dakota.

[GooooMarquette]

I saw a McGuire interview where he said he would focus on one top recruit each season.  In 13 seasons he landed 11 of those recruits.  The only two he missed on were both New York products. 
https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1314&dat=19970518&id=rbQpAAAAIBAJ&sjid=jPEDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6803,6195896&hl=en

Jim McMillan went to Columbia and was a first round pick of the Lakers in 1970. 

Brian Winters went to South Carolina and also was a first round pick of the Lakers in 1974.  The McGuire's lived down the street from the Winters in Rockaway Beach.  Al thought he could pull Winters away from Frank McGuire at South Carolina.   There was a time Allie McGuire was set to go to South Carolina if Winters choose Marquette.  Al said he lost out on a kid he babysat for but at least Frank let me keep my son.

And the year he lost out on Winters, he had to "settle" for his #2 choice - Maurice Lucas.

[Dawson Rental]

The Goose came over from UWM of all damn places.

I thought he transferred to Marquette for South Dakota.

North Dakota (for a semester), by way of UWM (where he did not play).

[TedBaxter]

Murf/GR8one has rhapsodized poetic on this topic many times in many forums over the years.    I can't do it justice.    To summarize, Al would recruit about 8-9 guys who he knew would be players.    He would fill the rest of his roster with local guys who were not likely to be stars, with the intent that they would be practice fodder and occasional minutes if there was an injury or foul trouble.     Al didn't try to have 15 All-Americans.     In Murf world, this is still the preferred template.   

For Murff's world to exist today, Marquette would have to recruit orphans and foster kids since parents are too involved now.

[MU62]

Gary Brell did transfer from South Dakota as someone already mentioned.   He went to Pius high school in Milwaukee. 

[oldwarrior81]

And the year he lost out on Winters, he had to "settle" for his #2 choice - Maurice Lucas.

Winters was a year ahead in the class of '74.  Lucas was class of '75 but left a year early.

[4everwarriors]

Just ax 'im. So yo, #31 where did ya come from, hey?

[oldwarrior81]

I think Brell played part of one season at North Dakota.  Left mid-season when averaging 15 pts and 13 rebounds a game as a freshman.

Transferred to UWM (where he never played), then transferred to Marquette.

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1368&dat=19691112&id=zXVQAAAAIBAJ&sjid=8BAEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1340,2708614&hl=en

[Goose]

Goose will let you know where his pre-MU travels took him. Have not see a post from the Real Goose in awhile.

[real chili 83]

Goose will let you know where his pre-MU travels took him. Have not see a post from the Real Goose in awhile.

Was just thinking the same.....

[4everwarriors]

Actually, I 'member readin' somethin' from 'im in April. Think it was 'bout a recruit, maybe Gill, hey?

[Lennys Tap]

I think Brell played part of one season at North Dakota.  Left mid-season when averaging 15 pts and 13 rebounds a game as a freshman.

Transferred to UWM (where he never played), then transferred to Marquette.

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1368&dat=19691112&id=zXVQAAAAIBAJ&sjid=8BAEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1340,2708614&hl=en

Our self appointed moralist/scold would have found the whole Gary Brell saga squirmy. Real Marquette fans recall it fondly.

[tower912]

Our resident scold would have found the entire Al era squirmy.   

[Lennys Tap]

Our resident scold would have found the entire Al era squirmy.

True that.

[HoopsterBC]

I got kicked off Dodds site because I stated MU and particularly Al, much like Coach Wooden had a Sam Gilbert type person at MU.  George came to MU without seeing
the school, 2nd year Dean Memminger, 3 time first team all New York City, showed up.   Even Allie who I played ball with admitted things were being done outside
the box.  Even Marquette got out bid for Sam Bowie, visited 2 schools,  Kentucky.  Al was a little squirmy.  I am sure Al knew what was going on, compared to Wooden
who had is head in the sand.

[swoopem]

The two recruits that Al missed on (or maybe didn't go after) that I'm curious about are Bernard King and Ernie Rumsfeld. After seeing their 30 for 30 and knowing they were NYC guys I'd think Al woulda been all over them.

Bernard King seems like the perfect 70's Marquette player. Anyone know why he wasn't?

[brandx]

The two recruits that Al missed on (or maybe didn't go after) that I'm curious about are Bernard King and Ernie Rumsfeld. After seeing their 30 for 30 and knowing they were NYC guys I'd think Al woulda been all over them.

Bernard King seems like the perfect 70's Marquette player. Anyone know why he wasn't?

King was never interested.

King would have been one of the all-time greats with injuries. As it is, he is still in the HOF. He was as close to unstoppable as any player I have ever seen. Unbelievably quick release on his shot and he was a great, great shooter.

Never heard of Rumsfeld. Just kidding - I'm sure you meant Grunfeld.

[brandx]

I am sure some of the older guys can attest to al's style of recruiting. He wanted one stud a year.

And then, that guy was expected to be a complimentary player until his time came. Al always wanted a senior to be his star if at all possible.

Of course he had to make concessions with some of the great recruits.

[4everwarriors]

I actually had that discussion with Ernie when he was Bucks GM. Was recruited by Al. Had somethin' to do wit worshippin' da Father, and not da Son, ai na?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Our resident scold would have found the entire Al era squirmy.

I enjoyed immensely working with Al for several years as the Executive producer of the tv and radio network.  Al was great to me, my wife, etc.

Different times, I'm glad the NCAA put a lot of regs and rules in place as a result of what was going on at many places...UCLA, Louisville, Kentucky, Long Beach State, etc....and yes...MU, too.


Back in those days the rules weren't laid out well, way too many loopholes, low education and enforcement.  That isn't the case today. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

I got kicked off Dodds site because I stated MU and particularly Al, much like Coach Wooden had a Sam Gilbert type person at MU.  George came to MU without seeing
the school, 2nd year Dean Memminger, 3 time first team all New York City, showed up.   Even Allie who I played ball with admitted things were being done outside
the box.  Even Marquette got out bid for Sam Bowie, visited 2 schools,  Kentucky.  Al was a little squirmy.  I am sure Al knew what was going on, compared to Wooden
who had is head in the sand.

Yup, but as stated, the rules, grey areas, enforcement and education was also a lot different back then, too.  No excuse for it today, you can't even land one of these positions without passing certain level of NCAA rules tests...that simply wasn't the case back then. 

[Lennys Tap]

I enjoyed immensely working with Al for several years as the Executive producer of the tv and radio network.  Al was great to me, my wife, etc.

Different times, I'm glad the NCAA put a lot of regs and rules in place as a result of what was going on at many places...UCLA, Louisville, Kentucky, Long Beach State, etc....and yes...MU, too.


Back in those days the rules weren't laid out well, way too many loopholes, low education and enforcement.  That isn't the case today.

Al McGuire recruited kids from tough neighborhoods/bad schools - the type who, in your opinion, devalue a Marquette diploma.

You're wrong, of course. Those Warriors, by and large, did us proud. And IMHO they leaned more that mattered from Al than you did at your multiple alma maters from your scores of teachers. My two cents.

[GGGG]

God is there a more Chicosesque move than to name drop the subject of the conversation?  As if that matters....

[Lennys Tap]

God is there a more Chicosesque move than to name drop the subject of the conversation?  As if that matters....

The lack of self awareness would be stunning...but it's Chico!

[ChicosBailBonds]

God is there a more Chicosesque move than to name drop the subject of the conversation?  As if that matters....

Well, someone said I would be squirmy about Al.  Well, I got to work with Al for three years, something 99.99999% of people here didn't do.  I don't appreciate someone saying if I would be squirmy about someone else when I had a relationship with the man.  So yes, I'm going to bring up the truth and respond.

Don't like it, put me on ignore.   Al was great to me and my wife.  He coached in a different era, different rules, different expectations.   The world has changed, every coach knows the rules inside and out now...

If you want my views on Bobby Knight and the year working with him I'm happy to oblige, though I was only a grad assistant so not near the contact.  You just let me know.  I'm here for you.

[GGGG]

 

Well, someone said I would be squirmy about Al.  Well, I got to work with Al for three years, something 99.99999% of people here didn't do.  I don't appreciate someone saying if I would be squirmy about someone else when I had a relationship with the man.  So yes, I'm going to bring up the truth and respond.

So the type of players Buzz brought in made you feel "squirmy," but when its pointed out that Al brought in many similar players, your response is "he was great to me and my wife."

Not only does that level of logic lack self-awareness like Lenny says, but it is superficial and shallow.

[Herman Cain]

I enjoyed immensely working with Al for several years as the Executive producer of the tv and radio network.  Al was great to me, my wife, etc.

Different times, I'm glad the NCAA put a lot of regs and rules in place as a result of what was going on at many places...UCLA, Louisville, Kentucky, Long Beach State, etc....and yes...MU, too.


Back in those days the rules weren't laid out well, way too many loopholes, low education and enforcement.  That isn't the case today.

Al fished the same ponds that everyone else was fishing back in the day. He played by the same rules. The reality was he was second greatest coach in college basketball history , only topped by Wooden. Pound for Pound , given our resources he was the best and got an incredible amount out of the talent he had. ( the way they used to compare Sugar Ray Robinson to Joe Louis. )

Great coaches get great results no matter what the era.

Michigan State for example recruited some  truly exceptional players at the same time Al was at MU guys like Ralph Simpson, Terry Furlow, Greg Kelser etc)and Gus Ganakas who was the coach at MSU at the time had no clue how to manage those kids, the inmates ran the asylum there and they had a lousy record as a result.

[MU82]

If you want my views on Bobby Knight and the year working with him I'm happy to oblige

Did he choke you? If not, it's not worth telling.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Al fished the same ponds that everyone else was fishing back in the day. He played by the same rules. The reality was he was second greatest coach in college basketball history , only topped by Wooden. Pound for Pound , given our resources he was the best and got an incredible amount out of the talent he had. ( the way they used to compare Sugar Ray Robinson to Joe Louis. )

Great coaches get great results no matter what the era.

Michigan State for example recruited some  truly exceptional players at the same time Al was at MU guys like Ralph Simpson, Terry Furlow, Greg Kelser etc)and Gus Ganakas who was the coach at MSU at the time had no clue how to manage those kids, the inmates ran the asylum there and they had a lousy record as a result.

He was a great personality, for sure.

Coach...define coach.  I think he was an amazing general manager that knew personalities, could connect with people like few others.  As far as X's and O's, harder to judge.  He was better than he gave himself credit for, but I think he was right when he said he just wasn't the tactician.  That's not a knock, he knew what he excelled at. 

Blessed to have known him and worked with him.  Great great memories that I will never forget until the day I die.

[ChicosBailBonds]

So the type of players Buzz brought in made you feel "squirmy," but when its pointed out that Al brought in many similar players, your response is "he was great to me and my wife."

Not only does that level of logic lack self-awareness like Lenny says, but it is superficial and shallow.

Lenny is on ignore, so he might as well be in a forest by himself as far as I'm concerned. 

Now, MU's world has changed dramatically since 1970's but some alumni are still stuck in a lost century and a just win baby world, which also no longer exists.  I don't lack logic at all on this, I just understand the realities of the world we are in and the expectations that go with that world...while others are stuck in a time warp and making absurd comparisons that no longer apply.

Nothing shallow about that.  The world changed, guys like Lenny forgot to change the calendar.  I could also wax poetic about a lot of people from the 70's or 60's or whatever that were great leaders, etc, but their approaches today would be frowned upon to the nth degree.  You know this to be 100% true.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Did he choke you? If not, it's not worth telling.

Nope, wrote me a few letters and notes which I will retain and pass on to my heirs. 

Try to keep politics out of this stuff Mike, we would like to keep you around.

[rocky_warrior]

Try to keep politics out of this stuff Mike, we would like to keep you around.

Since I'm sure someday you'll use this as proof of hypocrisy here, please feel free to PM me the reason that a RMK choking joke is political.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Since I'm sure someday you'll use this as proof of hypocrisy here, please feel free to PM me the reason that a RMK choking joke is political.

Ok

[Herman Cain]

He was a great personality, for sure.

Coach...define coach.  I think he was an amazing general manager that knew personalities, could connect with people like few others.  As far as X's and O's, harder to judge.  He was better than he gave himself credit for, but I think he was right when he said he just wasn't the tactician.  That's not a knock, he knew what he excelled at. 

Blessed to have known him and worked with him.  Great great memories that I will never forget until the day I die.

Understand personalities and moving them to a common objective  is the hallmark of a great leader and a great coach.  As far as  Xs and Os go, I can tell you this, opponents were genuinely afraid of our teams and we won most games before they started through sheer intimidation.  As the coach would say, teams are an extension of the coaches personality.  Al also knew how to work the refs as well as any coach. As you pointed out he was generous in many ways and that reflected directly on his ability to get players to buy into his program of shared sacrifice. 

Xs and O's are sometimes overrated. I still vividly remember sitting in Market Square arena after we lost to Miami of Ohio with an incredible line up of players and our coach who was supposedly the X and O king. I realized then it would not ever be the same.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Understand personalities and moving them to a common objective  is the hallmark of a great leader and a great coach.  As far as  Xs and Os go, I can tell you this, opponents were genuinely afraid of our teams and we won most games before they started through sheer intimidation.  As the coach would say, teams are an extension of the coaches personality.  Al also knew how to work the refs as well as any coach. As you pointed out he was generous in many ways and that reflected directly on his ability to get players to buy into his program of shared sacrifice. 

Xs and O's are sometimes overrated. I still vividly remember sitting in Market Square arena after we lost to Miami of Ohio with an incredible line up of players and our coach who was supposedly the X and O king. I realized then it would not ever be the same.

I wouldn't disagree with anything you said except to say Al was better for having Hank in that role, and Hank without an Al was missing an important piece.

They were a nice match together. Playing to each other's strengths and making up for their weaknesses.  In my opinion and in what Al said publicly and privately often.

[HoopsterBC]

yep, hard to be a Jew to go to MU, as I am one.

[Lennys Tap]

Nothing shallow about that.  The world changed, guys like Lenny forgot to change the calendar.  I could also wax poetic about a lot of people from the 70's or 60's or whatever that were great leaders, etc, but their approaches today would be frowned upon to the nth degree.  You know this to be 100% true.

This may be your funniest post ever. The guy who pines for the 50s, the back of the bus and loves him some redskins telling me to turn the calendar. LOL.

Things change, usually for the good - and in most cases (and all of those concerning human rights/dignity) I'm all in. Want to know something that hasn't changed? The overdog, hypocritical NCAA that you so love (and Al hated). Your thoughts on traditionals, Jucos and the alleged devaluation of your precious Marquette degree would have turned Al's stomach. Adolph Rupp would have been more simpatico with your world view.

[dgies9156]

Some thoughts about Al's recruiting:

1) Winning begets winners. Win consistently and the best players find you. That's why in the 1960s and 1970s, the best teams were UCLA, Marquette, North Carolina and even Kentucky. Al was winning and he was colorful about it. Guys would put up with Milwaukee in the winter because they knew Marquette would win and whatever exposure went to college in the 1970s, they'd get it. That's why Duke, North Carolina, Louisville, Kentucky and Michigan State draw 'em in today.

2) I don't know if Al "cheated" or not. I somehow don't think he had to. Again, he won. The track record spoke for itself. Yeah, a coach at Jacksonville, Western Kentucky, East Carolina or Dayton might have to, but I don't think Marquette was one of these small majors, even then.

3) Al was colorful. He was akin that nutty, disorganized professor everyone on campus wanted at least once. We all had them and we all for some reason were drawn to them.

4) Our guys went to the NBA. Chones, Thompson, Lucas, Ellis, Lee, Tatum. Great track record.

[brewcity77]

What's going on in here?

[HoopsterBC]

Some thoughts about Al's recruiting:

1) Winning begets winners. Win consistently and the best players find you. That's why in the 1960s and 1970s, the best teams were UCLA, Marquette, North Carolina and even Kentucky. Al was winning and he was colorful about it. Guys would put up with Milwaukee in the winter because they knew Marquette would win and whatever exposure went to college in the 1970s, they'd get it. That's why Duke, North Carolina, Louisville, Kentucky and Michigan State draw 'em in today.

2) I don't know if Al "cheated" or not. I somehow don't think he had to. Again, he won. The track record spoke for itself. Yeah, a coach at Jacksonville, Western Kentucky, East Carolina or Dayton might have to, but I don't think Marquette was one of these small majors, even then.

3) Al was colorful. He was akin that nutty, disorganized professor everyone on campus wanted at least once. We all had them and we all for some reason were drawn to them.

4) Our guys went to the NBA. Chones, Thompson, Lucas, Ellis, Lee, Tatum. Great track record.

Al did what all the coaches were doing back then.  No different then Lefty Drissell, Jerry Tarkanian, John Wooden, Denny Crum and others.   You had to play the game
and that meant Alumni had big pocketbooks.  Wooden was the worst even though he admitted he did not know what was going on.  It happpend.  Back then MU for
10 years was a Top 5 program. 

[79Warrior]

Al fished the same ponds that everyone else was fishing back in the day. He played by the same rules. The reality was he was second greatest coach in college basketball history , only topped by Wooden. Pound for Pound , given our resources he was the best and got an incredible amount out of the talent he had. ( the way they used to compare Sugar Ray Robinson to Joe Louis. )

Great coaches get great results no matter what the era.

Michigan State for example recruited some  truly exceptional players at the same time Al was at MU guys like Ralph Simpson, Terry Furlow, Greg Kelser etc)and Gus Ganakas who was the coach at MSU at the time had no clue how to manage those kids, the inmates ran the asylum there and they had a lousy record as a result.

Love Al, but absolutely no way is he number two in CBB history. Maybe the best personality on the sidelines, but not second best coach. Not even close.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Al did what all the coaches were doing back then.  No different then Lefty Drissell, Jerry Tarkanian, John Wooden, Denny Crum and others.   You had to play the game
and that meant Alumni had big pocketbooks.  Wooden was the worst even though he admitted he did not know what was going on.  It happpend.  Back then MU for
10 years was a Top 5 program.

A lot of stuff happened back in those times, some known by coaches, some ignored, some chose not to get involved.  Times have changed for the most part. Certainly still goes on to some extent, but it is harder to get away with it now and education about what is and isn't allowed is clear as a bell.  That wasn't always the case back then where interpretation of the rules was often left to the schools.

[Dawson Rental]

Al fished the same ponds that everyone else was fishing back in the day. He played by the same rules. The reality was he was second greatest coach in college basketball history , only topped by Wooden. Pound for Pound , given our resources he was the best and got an incredible amount out of the talent he had. ( the way they used to compare Sugar Ray Robinson to Joe Louis. )

Great coaches get great results no matter what the era.

Michigan State for example recruited some  truly exceptional players at the same time Al was at MU guys like Ralph Simpson, Terry Furlow, Greg Kelser etc)and Gus Ganakas who was the coach at MSU at the time had no clue how to manage those kids, the inmates ran the asylum there and they had a lousy record as a result.

I recall reading in a number of places that Al left when he did because he realized that his era was coming to an end and he foresaw that his ability to compete would erode.

[Dawson Rental]

He was a great personality, for sure.

Coach...define coach.  I think he was an amazing general manager that knew personalities, could connect with people like few others.  As far as X's and O's, harder to judge.  He was better than he gave himself credit for, but I think he was right when he said he just wasn't the tactician.  That's not a knock, he knew what he excelled at.

Blessed to have known him and worked with him.  Great great memories that I will never forget until the day I die.

And he had the good sense to cover himself by keeping a Hank Raymonds on when he got the job.  IIRC, he was not shy about crediting Hank's contribution, either.

edit: Reading further down the thread, I see you covered this point well.

[Dawson Rental]

Some thoughts about Al's recruiting:

1) Winning begets winners. Win consistently and the best players find you. That's why in the 1960s and 1970s, the best teams were UCLA, Marquette, North Carolina and even Kentucky. Al was winning and he was colorful about it. Guys would put up with Milwaukee in the winter because they knew Marquette would win and whatever exposure went to college in the 1970s, they'd get it. That's why Duke, North Carolina, Louisville, Kentucky and Michigan State draw 'em in today.

2) I don't know if Al "cheated" or not. I somehow don't think he had to. Again, he won. The track record spoke for itself. Yeah, a coach at Jacksonville, Western Kentucky, East Carolina or Dayton might have to, but I don't think Marquette was one of these small majors, even then.

3) Al was colorful. He was akin that nutty, disorganized professor everyone on campus wanted at least once. We all had them and we all for some reason were drawn to them.

4) Our guys went to the NBA. Chones, Thompson, Lucas, Ellis, Lee, Tatum. Great track record.

Marquette was NOT winning when Al arrived.  That's why he was hired.  Al used his contacts - who would now a days be called street agents - to start a gusher of talent from the New York City area.  Illegal now, but a gray area then.

[Lennys Tap]

Marquette was NOT winning when Al arrived.  That's why he was hired.  Al used his contacts - who would now a days be called street agents - to start a gusher of talent from the New York City area.  Illegal now, but a gray area then.

Correct - Marquette was a dumpster fire, even worse than what KO inherited. He did hit a gusher in New York (Thompson, Meminger, Ric Cobb, Larry McNeil, Earl Tatum, Butch Lee and Bernard Toone) he also struck oil in Illinois (Bob Lackey, Bo Ellis, Marcus Washington, Lloyd Walton, Jerome Whitehead and Robert Byrd), Wisconsin (Jim Chones, Gary Brell, Allie McGuire, Jeff Sewell, Brian Brunkhorst and Gary Rosenberg) and random other spots for Mo Lucas, Jimmy Boylan, Joe Thomas and Ulice Payne.

And one more thing - "street agents" aren't illegal now, they just changed their name to "AAU coaches". Tom Crean saved his gig in Bloomington by cutting a deal with one.

[ChicosBailBonds]

This may be your funniest post ever. The guy who pines for the 50s, the back of the bus and loves him some redskins telling me to turn the calendar. LOL.

Things change, usually for the good - and in most cases (and all of those concerning human rights/dignity) I'm all in. Want to know something that hasn't changed? The overdog, hypocritical NCAA that you so love (and Al hated). Your thoughts on traditionals, Jucos and the alleged devaluation of your precious Marquette degree would have turned Al's stomach. Adolph Rupp would have been more simpatico with your world view.

Glad I unigored this post.

Al and I got along great. 

The NCAA is made up of member schools, of which MU is one.  Al knew this.  Change can be made within, by the members. 

My view on Jucos is they leave a team incredibly unbalanced, especially if they don't pan out.  Having 38.5% of your roster is a recipe for disaster in the long run.

Looks like we aren't going to be that reliant again in the future, which in the long term is a good thing.

Yes, I like guys that can shoot and are high basketball IQ guys, do the traditional things well.  We haven't had good shooters in a while.  Hope we can get back to it soon. 

Your Rupp comments are wrong.  My MU degree doesn't mean a hill of beans in terms of value at this point in my life, but I do get concerned for those that come out of school and need that extra boost before they have made their mark.  It was unfortunate the very negative publicity we received there, especially with all the good publicity on the court...shame so much was wiped away.  Blacksburg is a nice place this time of year.

[rocket surgeon]

  "Xs and O's are sometimes overrated. I still vividly remember sitting in Market Square arena after we lost to Miami of Ohio with an incredible line up of players and our coach who was supposedly the X and O king. I realized then it would not ever be the same."


i am still in therapy because of that game.  it didn't help that whitehead got thrown out for coming down with a rebound and used his elbows to keep the others at bay.  i don't think he even hit anyone.  phantom flagrant foul??  talk about getting no respect-didn't the ref know that al retired the prior year?

[HoopsterBC]

  "Xs and O's are sometimes overrated. I still vividly remember sitting in Market Square arena after we lost to Miami of Ohio with an incredible line up of players and our coach who was supposedly the X and O king. I realized then it would not ever be the same.

That game and the Ohio St. game, are the 2 lowest moments with great teams, both got screwed by the refs.  Even the ref in the Ohio St. admitted years later he hated Al and fouled Dean out, with 3 charging calls.



i am still in therapy because of that game.  it didn't help that whitehead got thrown out for coming down with a rebound and used his elbows to keep the others at bay.  i don't think he even hit anyone.  phantom flagrant foul??  talk about getting no respect-didn't the ref know that al retired the prior year?

[rocket surgeon]

I enjoyed immensely working with Al for several years as the Executive producer of the tv and radio network.  Al was great to me, my wife, etc.

Different times, I'm glad the NCAA put a lot of regs and rules in place as a result of what was going on at many places...UCLA, Louisville, Kentucky, Long Beach State, etc....and yes...MU, too.


Back in those days the rules weren't laid out well, way too many loopholes, low education and enforcement.  That isn't the case today.

i don't care what anyone says, i am facking jealous and truely in facking awe that you got to hang with al, bobby, et. al.  al spoke at my high school athletic banquet and i remember it like it was yesterday. to me, he was a rock star.  rick spoke at our dental white coat ceremony and being a student of al, was 2nd most cool event of my life.  gotta put my marriage and birth of my kids as a really close 3rd -good thing my wife doesn't read these.  i met hank at one of my kids grade school games in brookfield.  those guys were and still are my heroes as i lived/died warrior hoops from grade school up. 

[rocket surgeon]

the refs hated that al was THE SHOW.  when they flipped his switch, oh baby, the gloves came off

[Herman Cain]

Correct - Marquette was a dumpster fire, even worse than what KO inherited. He did hit a gusher in New York (Thompson, Meminger, Ric Cobb, Larry McNeil, Earl Tatum, Butch Lee and Bernard Toone) he also struck oil in Illinois (Bob Lackey, Bo Ellis, Marcus Washington, Lloyd Walton, Jerome Whitehead and Robert Byrd), Wisconsin (Jim Chones, Gary Brell, Allie McGuire, Jeff Sewell, Brian Brunkhorst and Gary Rosenberg) and random other spots for Mo Lucas, Jimmy Boylan, Joe Thomas and Ulice Payne.

And one more thing - "street agents" aren't illegal now, they just changed their name to "AAU coaches". Tom Crean saved his gig in Bloomington by cutting a deal with one.

In those days there was no internet, fax, cable TV and only the three networks. Newspapers had detailed coverage but were not widely accessible beyond local markets. Radio covered High school basketball as well. Street and Smith put out a basketball magazine.So what evolved were a network of scouting "contacts". Honestly most of those "contacts" today would be guys who spend time on sites like this. Of course then they had no where near the data that is available today at their fingertips. Everything was done by the eye ball test. What was amazing was the access  to major head coaches. You could literally pick up the phone and call a guy like Jud Heathcoate,he would answer the phone,  ask lots of questions and depending on how the call went would follow up on the prospect through the high school coach.

The NCAA subsequently made a tighter definition of what a "Representative of the Universitys  Interest" is which knocked out most of the well intentioned  "contacts".

[dgies9156]

Marquette was NOT winning when Al arrived. 

Duh, no kidding. But Al did not recruit the then equivalent of Burger Boys in 1965 either.

He was successful once he turned the program around.

[ChicosBailBonds]

i don't care what anyone says, i am facking jealous and truely in facking awe that you got to hang with al, bobby, et. al.  al spoke at my high school athletic banquet and i remember it like it was yesterday. to me, he was a rock star.  rick spoke at our dental white coat ceremony and being a student of al, was 2nd most cool event of my life.  gotta put my marriage and birth of my kids as a really close 3rd -good thing my wife doesn't read these.  i met hank at one of my kids grade school games in brookfield.  those guys were and still are my heroes as i lived/died warrior hoops from grade school up.

It was pretty cool.  Just like I'm jealous that Keefe got to fly all those years for a living.  You've got digs in Havasu....good times I'm guessing! 
 
Lucky and blessed.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Fat Jack Rusnov, RIP

[Lennys Tap]

Fat Jack Rusnov, RIP

Black Spider patron - Pat Devitt, Billy "Lefty" Keeler, Bob and Toots Lehigh and a cast of thousands (well, maybe hundreds). Those were the days, Doc.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Fat Jack Rusnov, RIP

Enjoy

http://www.si.com/vault/1971/01/25/542222/crazy-cat-and-his-curious-warriors

[4everwarriors]

Enjoy

http://www.si.com/vault/1971/01/25/542222/crazy-cat-and-his-curious-warriors

Y'all gotta read dis. I 'member runnin' to da Walgreens on 16th da day it came out. Didn't buy SI. Just read the article in da aisle.  Kilpatrick captured da Warrior culture beautifully. And who can disagree with mugoose? Al had da best tongue ya ever herd, ai na?

[dgies9156]

Enjoy

http://www.si.com/vault/1971/01/25/542222/crazy-cat-and-his-curious-warriors

The attitude in this article reflected the mood at Marquette in the 1970s. It's one reason why I loved the place!

[tower912]

I've read this before.  Two things.  If the players showed this much personality and independent thought today, they would be trashed on message boards.  Second, every time I read Al quotes from the 70's, I realize what a spiritual successor to him that Buzz truly was.

[rocket surgeon]

I've read this before.  Two things.  If the players showed this much personality and independent thought today, they would be trashed on message boards.  Second, every time I read Al quotes from the 70's, I realize what a spiritual successor to him that Buzz truly was.

many of you might already have this one, but the book-"cracked sidewalks and french pastry"  "the wit and wisdom of al mcguire"

    by tom kertscher

it's all pictures and al's sayings-i've got it hard cover and sits within reaching distance at all times

[CTWarrior]

Enjoy

http://www.si.com/vault/1971/01/25/542222/crazy-cat-and-his-curious-warriors

That was a fun read, thanks for posting.

[Lennys Tap]

I've read this before.  Two things.  If the players showed this much personality and independent thought today, they would be trashed on message boards.  Second, every time I read Al quotes from the 70's, I realize what a spiritual successor to him that Buzz truly was.

+1000.

[Herman Cain]

Y'all gotta read dis. I 'member runnin' to da Walgreens on 16th da day it came out. Didn't buy SI. Just read the article in da aisle.  Kilpatrick captured da Warrior culture beautifully. And who can disagree with mugoose? Al had da best tongue ya ever herd, ai na?

So you read it on a Thursday.

[brandx]

If the players showed this much personality and independent thought today, they would be trashed on message boards. 

Not just the players.

There would be many calling for Al's head.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

I mean, with all that being said, it still sounds like a wonderful era.

[Herman Cain]

I've read this before.  Two things.  If the players showed this much personality and independent thought today, they would be trashed on message boards.  Second, every time I read Al quotes from the 70's, I realize what a spiritual successor to him that Buzz truly was.

Al would have approved of our one eyed  6 season Aircraft Carrier

[ChicosBailBonds]

This may be your funniest post ever. The guy who pines for the 50s, the back of the bus and loves him some redskins telling me to turn the calendar. LOL.

Things change, usually for the good - and in most cases (and all of those concerning human rights/dignity) I'm all in. Want to know something that hasn't changed? The overdog, hypocritical NCAA that you so love (and Al hated). Your thoughts on traditionals, Jucos and the alleged devaluation of your precious Marquette degree would have turned Al's stomach. Adolph Rupp would have been more simpatico with your world view.

From today

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/new-poll-finds-9-in-10-native-americans-arent-offended-by-redskins-name/2016/05/18/3ea11cfa-161a-11e6-924d-838753295f9a_story.html

[MU62]

i found this about Goose. 

Gary Brell #31

 Position: Forward
Height: 6'6“
Weight: 190 lbs.
Born:
Hometown: Milwaukee, WI
High School: Pius XI H.S.
High School Career

University of North Dakota Career

Brell played for the University of North Dakota for one-half season.
In 14 games, he averaged 15.2 points and 13 rebounds per game.
He left the University of North Dakota mid-season and enrolled at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee but did not compete in intercollegiate athletics.
Marquette Career

Brell transferred to Marquette from the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee. As a result, he sat out the 1968-69 season.
Gary averaged 12.2 points per game during the 1969-70 season and 13.4 points per game during the 1970-71 season.

[Herman Cain]

A fun article from the old days
http://www.si.com/vault/1972/01/17/576301/you-know-me-al-right-frank-and-i-hate-to-do-it

[willie warrior]

many of you might already have this one, but the book-"cracked sidewalks and french pastry"  "the wit and wisdom of al mcguire"

    by tom kertscher

it's all pictures and al's sayings-i've got it hard cover and sits within reaching distance at all times

So....you are saying it sits in the bathroom? That is where I had mine for a while!

[rocket surgeon]

So....you are saying it sits in the bathroom? That is where I had mine for a while!

not any more, i wanted to be more reverent to al and moved it to my desk at work.  now i can just reach over and read a few anytime instead of having to wait until i have a praire dog going on