More conference expansion nonsense

[GGGG]

From what I've read, the concern from the state/board is less about necessarily keeping them in the same conference, and more about making sure that both have viable homes for the future.  So, for instance, if NC was going to move to B1G along with a number of the other top-tier schools, decimating the ACC, then they'd want to make sure that NCSt could end up in the B12 or SEC.  So, as long as the powers-that-be in North Carolina feel like both schools end up in a sustain-able situation, it is less important that they remain in the same conference.  That could cause problems, though, if NCSt can't work its way into either the B12 or SEC. 

Thank you and that makes sense. 

[mu03eng]

I have read some recent rumors as well, however, that UNC's recent academic issues could end up making it harder for the B1G to take them on.  So who knows what exactly will happen.

It all depends on if UNC's AAU rating would remain intact. If not, I don't think the B1G touches them, which makes this thing get all sorts of interesting.


What will make this all fascinating is what role the content delivery companies (ESPN/ABC, Fox, NBC, etc) play in making this terrible. It's an open secret that ESPN manipulated Syracuse and Louisville into killing the BEast deal so that ESPN could get an expanded ACC for football and basketball. So how does Fox, ESPN, etc manipulate these conferences into making decisions that might have short term contract positives but are not stable long term.

[Herman Cain]

I think a best case scenario would be an ACC implosion (the best programs leaving for Big 10) and the remainder merging with AAC schools (UConn, Cincy, Memphis).

Out of that we would have a shot for Notre Dame's non-football sports and any schools that decided football was not viable going foward with the new realignment (Wake or BC, and perhaps even UConn if they don't get picked up)

I don't ever see an ACC implosion. The conference is very focused and the parties involved are quite pleased with things. An ACC network will eventually emerge.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I don't ever see an ACC implosion. The conference is very focused and the parties involved are quite pleased with things. An ACC network will eventually emerge.

That's a bald faced lie.

[mu03eng]

That's a bald faced lie.

What's more is it's not true.

[Marcus92]

I just don't see the attraction to Notre Dame.

For the schools of the Big East, the focus is college basketball. For the Irish, the focus is football. The difference couldn't be any clearer. That difference is what helped rip the Big East apart. Seems pretty simple.

I don't want ND in our conference. It doesn't matter how big their brand is. Or how good their men's basketball program is. Or what else we hold in common (geography, Catholic universities). They're trouble we don't need.

[Marcus92]

But I'll happily play ND home and away every year until the end of time.

[GGGG]

Notre Dame would instantly be the highest profile school in the conference.  If you can find a working relationship for them and their football program, you take them in a heartbeat. 

[Marcus92]

Notre Dame would instantly be the highest profile school in the conference.  If you can find a working relationship for them and their football program, you take them in a heartbeat.

That's the same thinking that led to the breakup of the Big East. There was no working relationship or common ground between the football and basketball-only schools. We've tried being in a conference with ND and it didn't take. Doing it again would seem foolish.

[GGGG]

That's the same thinking that led to the breakup of the Big East. There was no working relationship or common ground between the football and basketball-only schools. We've tried being in a conference with ND and it didn't take. Doing it again would seem foolish.

It is very different to have a conference where half the members play football and half don't  (Old Big East), versus one where one member plays FBS football as an independent and is not affiliated with any other conference.  I feel confident in saying that if ND wanted to stay in the Big East when the conference broke apart, they would have been allowed to do so. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I don't give a rats behind if a school has football or is their public or private. Give me the best basketball programs available.

[mu03eng]

I don't give a rats behind if a school has football or is their public or private. Give me the best basketball programs available.

Disagree with the former, completely agree with the latter.

ND is unique in that while football is king for their program...the king wants to be independent and that will never change, that can be easily managed within a conference of basketball only schools. Other schools, it would be a marriage of convenience and once the football program got a better offer they would be gone.

If ND wants to land in the BEast, fine we will take the increased TV contract money with glee then beat them on the court. If any other(literally any other) school with a football program comes calling we hang up on them within 30 seconds and block their number.

[Coleman]

Notre Dame would instantly be the highest profile school in the conference.  If you can find a working relationship for them and their football program, you take them in a heartbeat.

+1

ND doesn't want to be in a conference for football. The Big East would be a mutually beneficial arrangement for all parties.

[MUMountin]

+1

ND doesn't want to be in a conference for football. The Big East would be a mutually beneficial arrangement for all parties.

I think the issue with ND, though, is the bowl tie-ins.  While they don't want to be in a conference, they want access to the bowl games that a conference "affiliation" gives them.  That's why the deal with the ACC works so well for them--they get the benefits of the conference's bowl game tie-ins, while maintaining their NBC contract and still keeping more scheduling flexibility.

That's also why I don't see it likely that ND ever would join us (and be an unaffiliated football independent). 

The issue will be for ND if ACC gets so devalued at some point if the premier ACC football schools all flock to greener pastures, and loses either its Power 5 status and/or bowl tie-ins.  Then ND will have to again look to see if there is another conference it can affiliate with--but my guess is that the remaining Power 5 conferences say no unless it is full-member status. 

[Herman Cain]

That's a bald faced lie.

How many ACC Presidents and Trustees have you spoken to? I have spoken to many as well as the top brass ESPN. When you speak to some of the above let us know if You still believe that to be the case. 

[Coleman]

I think the issue with ND, though, is the bowl tie-ins.  While they don't want to be in a conference, they want access to the bowl games that a conference "affiliation" gives them.  That's why the deal with the ACC works so well for them--they get the benefits of the conference's bowl game tie-ins, while maintaining their NBC contract and still keeping more scheduling flexibility.

That's also why I don't see it likely that ND ever would join us (and be an unaffiliated football independent). 

The issue will be for ND if ACC gets so devalued at some point if the premier ACC football schools all flock to greener pastures, and loses either its Power 5 status and/or bowl tie-ins.  Then ND will have to again look to see if there is another conference it can affiliate with--but my guess is that the remaining Power 5 conferences say no unless it is full-member status.

ND can get bowl tie-ins with zero conference connection. They did it before they had this weird ACC relationship with football

[GGGG]

ND can get bowl tie-ins with zero conference connection. They did it before they had this weird ACC relationship with football

Yeah.  With the Big East.

[Marcus92]

Disagree with the former, completely agree with the latter.

ND is unique in that while football is king for their program...the king wants to be independent and that will never change, that can be easily managed within a conference of basketball only schools. Other schools, it would be a marriage of convenience and once the football program got a better offer they would be gone.

If ND wants to land in the BEast, fine we will take the increased TV contract money with glee then beat them on the court. If any other(literally any other) school with a football program comes calling we hang up on them within 30 seconds and block their number.

So how exactly is Notre Dame different from Texas?

[Texas/Notre Dame] sees itself as better than the rest of the schools in the [Big 12/ACC], demands special treatment as a condition for membership and earns more than the other schools through [The Longhorn Network/NBC].

The consensus on Texas is that it has a destabilizing influence on the Big 12 — simultaneously holding the conference together, yet keeping it from moving forward. The unequal partnership works against unity between the schools. I see no reason to view Notre Dame any differently.

ND, UConn and the like aren't part of the Big East anymore for a simple reason. They don't want what we want. Good riddance.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

How many ACC Presidents and Trustees have you spoken to? I have spoken to many as well as the top brass ESPN. When you speak to some of the above let us know if You still believe that to be the case.

Exactly one. Though it was very brief and we didn't talk basketball. No I don't travel in those kinds of circles. If you do, congrats. I hope you would understand that no University President would ever say anything negative about their athletic conference and would do their absolute best to paint the picture that all the member schools get together on the weekends to drink some cold ones and sing kumbaya.

Instead, I will listen the fairly consistent media coverage and common sense that dictates that the ACC schools are livid about the ACC Network not getting off the ground, that the ACC Network is not close to getting off the ground, and that several ACC member schools would jump ship the second either the SEC or BIG came calling.

The harsh reality is that conference realignment is about one thing and one thing only. Money. The B1G can outspend everybody. The SEC can outspend everyone but the B1G. Either of those conferences can cherry pick any school they want from any of the other conferences (except Notre Dame and maybe Texas due to their special circumstances). The PAC 12 is geographically insulated, so they are safe. So either the B12 or the ACC or both will get raided next. My personal opinion is that the ACC schools will be more valuable to the B1G and SEC so they will get raided first.

Conference will only continue to grow. The B1G and SEC are king. They won't be adding any mid major schools. Other high major schools will need to lose schools in order for the SEC and B1G to grow. Its only a matter of who and when.

[MUMountin]

Exactly one. Though it was very brief and we didn't talk basketball. No I don't travel in those kinds of circles. If you do, congrats. I hope you would understand that no University President would ever say anything negative about their athletic conference and would do their absolute best to paint the picture that all the member schools get together on the weekends to drink some cold ones and sing kumbaya.

Instead, I will listen the fairly consistent media coverage and common sense that dictates that the ACC schools are livid about the ACC Network not getting off the ground, that the ACC Network is not close to getting off the ground, and that several ACC member schools would jump ship the second either the SEC or BIG came calling.

The harsh reality is that conference realignment is about one thing and one thing only. Money. The B1G can outspend everybody. The SEC can outspend everyone but the B1G. Either of those conferences can cherry pick any school they want from any of the other conferences (except Notre Dame and maybe Texas due to their special circumstances). The PAC 12 is geographically insulated, so they are safe. So either the B12 or the ACC or both will get raided next. My personal opinion is that the ACC schools will be more valuable to the B1G and SEC so they will get raided first.

Conference will only continue to grow. The B1G and SEC are king. They won't be adding any mid major schools. Other high major schools will need to lose schools in order for the SEC and B1G to grow. Its only a matter of who and when.

+1

The other piece in all of this is that for football, there are four spots in the Playoffs, but currently five Power conferences.  One conference (at least) is always going to be left out in the cold.  Under this system, it is also in the interests of these conferences to cannibalize one of the others, so that there are only four major conferences for four playoff spots (ignoring the fact that one conference could place multiple teams in a given year, or, more unlikely, that a G5 team could crack the top 4). 

As TAMU mentioned, the Pac12 is insulated, and the B1G and SEC have more money than the other two.  One of them (B12 or ACC) likely has to give eventually.  Now, it could be that the B12 could be the one to fall apart if the discord created by the imbalance between UT and the rest gets too bad: OU gets picked up by the SEC, or Texas decides to move somewhere else.  But, personally, I also see it more likely that the ACC gets raided.

[Herman Cain]

Exactly one. Though it was very brief and we didn't talk basketball. No I don't travel in those kinds of circles. If you do, congrats. I hope you would understand that no University President would ever say anything negative about their athletic conference and would do their absolute best to paint the picture that all the member schools get together on the weekends to drink some cold ones and sing kumbaya.

Instead, I will listen the fairly consistent media coverage and common sense that dictates that the ACC schools are livid about the ACC Network not getting off the ground, that the ACC Network is not close to getting off the ground, and that several ACC member schools would jump ship the second either the SEC or BIG came calling.

The harsh reality is that conference realignment is about one thing and one thing only. Money. The B1G can outspend everybody. The SEC can outspend everyone but the B1G. Either of those conferences can cherry pick any school they want from any of the other conferences (except Notre Dame and maybe Texas due to their special circumstances). The PAC 12 is geographically insulated, so they are safe. So either the B12 or the ACC or both will get raided next. My personal opinion is that the ACC schools will be more valuable to the B1G and SEC so they will get raided first.

Conference will only continue to grow. The B1G and SEC are king. They won't be adding any mid major schools. Other high major schools will need to lose schools in order for the SEC and B1G to grow. Its only a matter of who and when.

Yes the Big 10 and SEC are strong conferences that are coining money. I agree they can theoretically buy anyone that they want to a certain extent. On the other hand the party they buy has to bring something to the table . Maryland and Rutgers brought a lot to the table. The offset is the exit fees up the ACC are now $52 million and no state institution is excited to pony that up.  The ACC is in a very good position to provide a wide range of desired content to ESPN. They will have their network soon .  I can assure you, ESPN wants it as much as the ACC.

 Also remember, if Notre Dame joins a football conference ever, they are obligated to join the ACC which is a driving motivation for ESPN to make the ACC network deal. Notre Dame loves housing their Olympic Sports in the ACC and that was one of the several prime reasons they made their move in the first place. Notre Dame is not going anywhere.

The deal is being negotiated and these things take time. Also the ACC is the most desired destination of student athletes across a wide range of sports, which ensures their continued desirability as a conference.  They are having no problems recruiting in any sport.

All that said I am very happy MU is in its Big East. Our conference is stable and not subject to the volatility of football.

Now only if we could sign Kostas....

[oldwarrior81]

I believe ESPN owes the ACC $45 million if the ACC Network is not established by July 1.

We'll wait and see if ESPN feels the extra $45 million is less than the costs of starting up a new network, and the possible losses that may be incurred the first few seasons.

ESPN continues the purging of on air staff as Ray Lewis and Cris Carter both were released yesterday. 

[Dawson Rental]

If the ACC implodes and replaces schools like Florida State, Miami, Virginia Tech, etc with schools from the American, then they will end up getting American level TV money. Schools like UConn, BC, Wake, and maybe even Duke, Pitt, and Cuse will need to take a hard look at their commitment to football. The conference landscape will change significantly in the next 10 years. Gotta make sure the BEast is ready to be takers, not the taken.

There's not anyone around to take Big East teams - that was the beauty of the no FBS football team model.

[Dawson Rental]

I just don't see the attraction to Notre Dame.

For the schools of the Big East, the focus is college basketball. For the Irish, the focus is football. The difference couldn't be any clearer. That difference is what helped rip the Big East apart. Seems pretty simple.

I don't want ND in our conference. It doesn't matter how big their brand is. Or how good their men's basketball program is. Or what else we hold in common (geography, Catholic universities). They're trouble we don't need.

I disagree.  Since Notre Dame has resisted joining a BCS conference as a full member, they were never part of the forces that pulled the Big East apart.

ND's women's basketball and men's lacrosse would both look very nice in the current Big East lineup.

[Dawson Rental]

Exactly one. Though it was very brief and we didn't talk basketball. No I don't travel in those kinds of circles. If you do, congrats. I hope you would understand that no University President would ever say anything negative about their athletic conference and would do their absolute best to paint the picture that all the member schools get together on the weekends to drink some cold ones and sing kumbaya.

Instead, I will listen the fairly consistent media coverage and common sense that dictates that the ACC schools are livid about the ACC Network not getting off the ground, that the ACC Network is not close to getting off the ground, and that several ACC member schools would jump ship the second either the SEC or BIG came calling.

The harsh reality is that conference realignment is about one thing and one thing only. Money. The B1G can outspend everybody. The SEC can outspend everyone but the B1G. Either of those conferences can cherry pick any school they want from any of the other conferences (except Notre Dame and maybe Texas due to their special circumstances). The PAC 12 is geographically insulated, so they are safe. So either the B12 or the ACC or both will get raided next. My personal opinion is that the ACC schools will be more valuable to the B1G and SEC so they will get raided first.

Conference will only continue to grow. The B1G and SEC are king. They won't be adding any mid major schools. Other high major schools will need to lose schools in order for the SEC and B1G to grow. Its only a matter of who and when.

Humm, ESPN gets the ACC to take Pitt and 'Cuse leading to the complete reformulation of the Big East, then ESPN fails to follow through on a promised ACC network.

Ain't karma a bitch.