Unfufilled potential of MU players

[HouWarrior]

ESPN, like Scoop, is trying to fill an off season lull with:
http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/15447349/top-25-unfulfilled-potential-reality-falls-spectacularly-short-expectations

It makes for a good topic here. Recalling the many high expectations among our recruits/players...who;

1) fell short of expectations:
Oliver Lee, Maymon, William Gates,

2)...or left us wanting more?
Ellenson, Jim Chones, Wade

I put zero thought/ research to my names (likely bad choices-lol) but I look forward to those with good lists on each category

[MUfan12]

1) fell short of expectations:
Dominic James

4th all-time in scoring. 2nd in assists. 4th in steals. Top 10 in career wins.

Yeah, that guy was a real disappointment.

[Coleman]

Yeah disagree with the Dominic James analysis.

[mu03eng]

Depends on what you are using as metric in disappointment....stats or results in times that it matters like the tournament.

Given the talent of the 3 amigos and the talent on the team when they were upperclassmen, we could certainly argue they under performed when it mattered.

[jsglow]

Depends on what you are using as metric in disappointment....stats or results in times that it matters like the tournament.

Given the talent of the 3 amigos and the talent on the team when they were upperclassmen, we could certainly argue they under performed when it mattered.

Injuries at critical times didn't help.

[Jay Bee]

4th all-time in scoring. 2nd in assists. 4th in steals. Top 10 in career wins.

Yeah, that guy was a real disappointment.

He said 'fell short of expectations' not "a real disappointment"...

DJ had a solid frosh year with a high usage.

His offensive performance never improved and was met with regressing usage. He became less of a factor, offensively, as his career progressed.

I think if you look at where DJ was at as his freshman year concluded and where the consensus expectations re: his future lay at that time, saying he fell short of those expectations is completely reasonable.

It's no wonder that many people say, "DJ should have tried to leave for the NBA after frosh year."

[🏀]

He said 'fell short of expectations' not "a real disappointment"...

DJ had a solid frosh year with a high usage.

His offensive performance never improved and was met with regressing usage. He became less of a factor, offensively, as his career progressed.

I think if you look at where DJ was at as his freshman year concluded and where the consensus expectations re: his future lay at that time, saying he fell short of those expectations is completely reasonable.

It's no wonder that many people say, "DJ should have tried to leave for the NBA after frosh year."

DJ had more options as Jerel and Wes matured into their games, so his offensive impact was less. However, each year his defensive impact grew.

[jficke13]

DJ had more options as Jerel and Wes matured into their games, so his offensive impact was less. However, each year his defensive impact grew.

James was an on-ball terror his senior year. His ball pressure was crushing. Plus, when Buzz went to the gimmick 1-3-1 he had the quickness to play the baseline and cover corner to corner.

I think somehow he got underrated as a defensive player. I actually thought for a while that was how he'd catch on at the next level as the emergency backup PG somewhere. If he had to see the court for a couple minutes he'd give you good D and wouldn't turn it over. But, obviously I'm not in charge of any NBA rosters so it didn't work out that way.

[MUfan12]

DJ had more options as Jerel and Wes matured into their games, so his offensive impact was less. However, each year his defensive impact grew.

Bingo.

Also, holding the lack of tournament success against that group is harsh. As glow pointed out, hey had two seasons where they were all healthy... as freshman and juniors. Got beat by a fluke shot junior year.

He said 'fell short of expectations' not "a real disappointment"...

It's still ridiculous. The only expectation he fell short of was making it to the NBA. Over four years, what he did at MU was as good as anyone could have hoped.

[🏀]

It's still ridiculous. The only expectation he fell short of was making it to the NBA. Over four years, what he did at MU was as good as anyone could have hoped.

Bingo.

We've had higher rated players than the 3 Amigos come in, and they've achieved way less.

[Herman Cain]

I would say Dwayne Johnson was a very big disappointment in the sense of leaving early due to unforced error. He had incredible talent but could not cut in the classroom and ended up his career in D3. I think if he would have been able to stay on the team, the Majerus era may have gone on for a long time.


Oliver Lee had a very good career, there are some that believe it could have been great. I think the whole Hank Raymonds era was one of players not realizing potential. So I don't know if I put it all on the kid. There were many others during his time that never reached their potential.

[GGGG]

Jamil Wilson.

Ended up a decent player, but never really became what people thought he would become.

[Jay Bee]

DJ had more options as Jerel and Wes matured into their games, so his offensive impact was less. However, each year his defensive impact grew.

Not sure it was so much Rel and Wesley; but the usage trend was certainly not what you normally see. Would be interested to look at comparables... freshman year to senior, in order.. usage... 27.7, 26.6, 24.9, 21.5.

----
Just for fun.. Wes: 22.5, 22.2, 20.1, 24.7 (chains off)
Rel: 27.1, 31.0, 27.5, 28.1

....freshman year, the top older guys were the likes of Novak (super efficient, but relatively modest usage.. 18%) and Champman (12.4.. sandy cohen-like)
...by their junior year, Zar had taken on a big load (nh) and played meaningful minutes... I think Zar's presence had as much or more to do with the decline as Rel and Wesley.. not a bad thing, just an unusual-looking trend of usage for DJ... and I don't think it looked like most expected as of the completion of his FR year

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Vander Blue fits comfortably in both categories.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

This might help this conversation: http://marquette.247sports.com/Sport/Basketball/AllTimeRecruits

Its a list of Marquette's top 50 recruits since 2000 based on their 247 composite rating.

Some names that jump out to me:

#1 Henry Ellenson and #2 Vander Blue both left with us wanting more.

#3 Jajuan Johnson underachieved his first 2.5 seasons but looked like the star we expected the second half of last season.  Could give us a monster senior year.

#4 Dameon Mason I think was great when he played for us but after transferring to LSU he really fell of the wagon.

We just recruited #5 Markus Howard, very very excited about him.

#11 is Juan Anderson? Damn.

#15 is Sandy Cohen? Damn.

Yous Mbao and Davante Gardner are tied at #31? Yikes.

247 massively underrates JUCOs, see #26 Jameel McKay, t-#34 Darius Johnson-Odom, t-#34 Jae Crowder, t-#48 Jimmy Butler.

[dgies9156]

Some random thoughts on this subject:

1) Bernard Toone -- One of the best recruits Al got (which is saying a lot) but wasted a lot of his talent.

2) Tony Reeder -- Was supposed to be good. Dukiet's "best." Indicative of how far the program had fallen.

3) Tommy Copa -- Supposed to be a great center, lead us to where we were. Never quite got us there.

More to come but these are the ones that come to mind.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

This might help this conversation: http://marquette.247sports.com/Sport/Basketball/AllTimeRecruits

Its a list of Marquette's top 50 recruits since 2000 based on their 247 composite rating.

Some names that jump out to me:

#1 Henry Ellenson and #2 Vander Blue both left with us wanting more.

#3 Jajuan Johnson underachieved his first 2.5 seasons but looked like the star we expected the second half of last season.  Could give us a monster senior year.

#4 Dameon Mason I think was great when he played for us but after transferring to LSU he really fell of the wagon.

We just recruited #5 Markus Howard, very very excited about him.

#11 is Juan Anderson? Damn.

#15 is Sandy Cohen? Damn.

Yous Mbao and Davante Gardner are tied at #31? Yikes.

247 massively underrates JUCOs, see #26 Jameel McKay, t-#34 Darius Johnson-Odom, t-#34 Jae Crowder, t-#48 Jimmy Butler.

Dameon Mason was not a great player at Marquette.

[HouWarrior]

1) fell short of expectations:
Dominic James,



I put zero thought/ research to my names (likely bad choices-lol) but I look forward to those with good lists on each category

Thanks to the posts who quickly confirmed what I already had acknowledged up front...here,....I had hoped for prompt departure from my names and thoughtful research of new lists so ignoring my names totally.... re start:

who were your top 5 of those that failed to meet expectations?

PS thank TAMU while I was replying here your post righted the ship

[San Diego Warrior]

I'd say Dominic James only failed to live up to the expectations set after his freshman year.  He was a great college basketball player for us, but most probably thought likely lottery pick after his freshman start.

[brewcity77]

Sultan mentioned Jamil Wilson. That's the big one for me. I remember him being a top-5 player nationally at one point. He had the prototype size, athleticism, ability to go inside or out, just seemed like a better-in-every-way Jae Crowder.

I don't know if it was that he was severely overrated or that he just didn't have the tenacity and personality to be a star. Even without Blue, we should have been a tourney team in 2014, but Jamil just wasn't the type to will a team to victory.

Juan was definitely another one. Coming out of high school he looked like another overlooked West Coast recruit. His passing and just smoothness reminded me of Evan Turner. In retrospect, it was probably that the competition should have reminded me of Pop Warner.

[tower912]

Dameon Mason.   Ooze.   Copa.  Downing.    Bell/Christian/Matthews/Niv.   Jamil.   Mayo.   Fulce. (damned knees.   He was better than Butler at JUCO, compared to Shawn Marion)

[bilsu]

Depends on what you are using as metric in disappointment....stats or results in times that it matters like the tournament.

Given the talent of the 3 amigos and the talent on the team when they were upperclassmen, we could certainly argue they under performed when it mattered.

James had a broken foot his senior year.
McNeal had a broken had his sophomore year.
Both of those hurt us at tournament time.

I would say in comparison to James' freshmen year the rest of his career was disappointing. Imagine if he had improved as much as Matthews and McNeal.

[bilsu]

ESPN, like Scoop, is trying to fill an off season lull with:
http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/15447349/top-25-unfulfilled-potential-reality-falls-spectacularly-short-expectations

It makes for a good topic here. Recalling the many high expectations among our recruits/players...who;

1) fell short of expectations:
Dominic James, Oliver Lee, Maymon, William Gates,

2)...or left us wanting more?
Ellenson, Jim Chones, Wade

I put zero thought/ research to my names (likely bad choices-lol) but I look forward to those with good lists on each category

#2 McNeil, Lucas and Rivers also left early for NBA. Not NBA, but Blankson transferring out.

I would have to go through the MU guide to remember all the names I would list under 1). It might be easier to list the players who did not disappoint as usually we set expectations too high for incoming players. For Buzz recruits I would say Butler and Crowder. The rest were probably disappointing to various degrees.

[Marcus92]

A couple recent players come to mind:

Jamil Wilson
A great athlete who could do just about anything — pass, shoot, drive, post up, defend — but never seemed to quite pull it all together.

Joe Fulce
Some might forget that Joe was the Class of 2008 JC recruit Buzz prized most — not Jimmy Butler. Persistent knee issues kept him from putting his incredible athleticism and rebounding skills to full use.

It doesn't mean they weren't good players — or that I didn't enjoy watching them at Marquette. I just thought they were capable of a lot more.

[LAMUfan]

Dameon Mason was not a great player at Marquette.

He had that one shot, against that one team that was pretty cool though