Ultimate -- I Hope -- Thoughts on the Ellensons

[dgies9156]

After reading everything written on the Ellensons and their relationship with Marquette, there are a couple of conclusions that can be drawn:

1) The Ellensons themselves probably are reacting to a natural desire to allow their son to have "it all." Sorry folks, life does not work that way. We all make choices and the choice Wally had to make was either to work full-time on his game and maybe, if everything comes together, be the fourth or fifth guy off the bench next year, or to complete for a spot on the U.S. Olympic team. This one should be a "no-brainer."

2) I'm sure Wojo at some point told the Ellensons Wally could play basketball and jump for the track and field team. Maybe 30 years ago, Wally could have jumped in Rio this summer and been an important contributor to our team next year. But it isn't 30 years ago and off-season conditioning, training and refinement is everything in today's college game. Wally just wasn't good enough to keep up without a massive investment in his game. Wojo knows this first hand from what Coach K told him while he was in his sophomore year at Duke.

3) The Ellenson issue says something important about Wojo. He's on the hot seat to win now and win enough next year to make the NCAA Tournament. If he wasn't, he would have found a place for Wally. Period. The weakness at power forward arising from Henry leaving for the NBA is HUGE and if it was not solved, Marquette probably at best would be a marginal NCAA team and maybe a marginal NIT team -- again. Wally wasn't going to be the answer. He's a good kid but not the solution for next year.

4) Here's hoping Henry and Wally both do well in their chosen endeavors. Both are very, very talented.

[wadesworld]

After reading everything written on the Ellensons and their relationship with Marquette, there are a couple of conclusions that can be drawn:

1) The Ellensons themselves probably are reacting to a natural desire to allow their son to have "it all." Sorry folks, life does not work that way. We all make choices and the choice Wally had to make was either to work full-time on his game and maybe, if everything comes together, be the fourth or fifth guy off the bench next year, or to complete for a spot on the U.S. Olympic team. This one should be a "no-brainer."

2) I'm sure Wojo at some point told the Ellensons Wally could play basketball and jump for the track and field team. Maybe 30 years ago, Wally could have jumped in Rio this summer and been an important contributor to our team next year. But it isn't 30 years ago and off-season conditioning, training and refinement is everything in today's college game. Wally just wasn't good enough to keep up without a massive investment in his game. Wojo knows this first hand from what Coach K told him while he was in his sophomore year at Duke.

3) The Ellenson issue says something important about Wojo. He's on the hot seat to win now and win enough next year to make the NCAA Tournament. If he wasn't, he would have found a place for Wally. Period. The weakness at power forward arising from Henry leaving for the NBA is HUGE and if it was not solved, Marquette probably at best would be a marginal NCAA team and maybe a marginal NIT team -- again. Wally wasn't going to be the answer. He's a good kid but not the solution for next year.

4) Here's hoping Henry and Wally both do well in their chosen endeavors. Both are very, very talented.

The bolded couldn't be more wrong.

[Dawson Rental]

Another thread, really?

[Litehouse]

Ultimate -- I Hope -- we don't need any more new threads on this.  We already have about 10 going.

[jficke13]

Ultimate -- I Hope -- we don't need any more new threads on this.  We already have about 10 going.

Maybe it will just be the latest in a long line of penultimate posts on this issue?

[NickelDimer]

'My opinion is so grand it needed its own stage'

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

The bolded couldn't be more wrong.

Yep.

The funny thing is that Young, who is the main candidate to replace Wally, won't really help us next year. He's there to help us in 2017-2018 when Big Fischy graduates. Its all about balancing the classes.

[bilsu]

#2 Is Bogus, because track and high jumping needs conditioning. All he is missing is the coaches are allowed to practice with two players a day (I might not actually have this right, but they cannot have full team practices).
#3 Coaches are almost always on the hot seat with fans, but it only matters what the administration thinks. He is not on the hot seat with the administration. What I feel is really driving him (and you have to understand I never had a good feeling about Wojo, so take what I think with a grain of salt) is the Duke job. He needs to produce sooner than later to have a chance at this job.

[MU82]

I doubt Wojo's seat is even close to tepid.

[MerrittsMustache]

The bolded couldn't be more wrong.

True. Wojo's seat is in no way, shape or form anything above room temperature.

If anything, I'd believe that Wojo is getting impatient with himself. He's a crazily intense competitor and landing one of the top recruits in program history basically got him nothing last season. I don't think Wojo regrets landing HE but what was actually accomplished? Sure, Haanif, JJJ and Traci showed potential for 16-17, but did HE's minutes and volume of shots potentially impede the progress of other players still with the program? Knowing what he knows now, would Wojo have rather landed a 4-year postplayer? If given a re-do, I still think he'd take HE but in the back of his mind, it has to be bothering him that he landed a one-and-done McD AA and a year later has nothing to show for it.

[TedBaxter]

The bolded couldn't be more wrong.

Do you mean the bolded should have said something to the effect, "there was a great deal of parental pressure being exerted last year on Wojo to play Wally when the other son was starring and now with Henry gone, the pressure on Wojo to play Wally next year would be even more focused and intense."

Does that pretty much cover your thoughts wadesworld, because that pretty much sums up my whole opinion on the matter and it is my own opinion based on nothing other than what I know about the family.  I could definitely be wrong, but do you wonder why a college coach would alienate himself from a star freshman going to the NBA at the expense of one scholarship?

My knowledge is based on growing up 23 miles from the heart of Rice Lake, knowing a former high school teammate who's son played with Henry in AAU at the middle school ages, knowing the aunt of a former Rice Lake teammate, knowing people who have dealt with the family in the basketball realm and personally watching games in which the family was present.

There was a time when I hoped MU would be eliminated from the recruiting race and when the brothers did sign, I wondered if Wojo had coached players with a similar family makeup and could handle it. 

Henry Ellenson had a great year with freshman All-American honors, Big East newcomer of the year and likely a first round NBA draft choice and Wally was a basketball contributor, was an All-American in track brought Marquette an NCAA individual titlist in the high jump and a chance at the Olympics at the tender age of 22.  Might not be enough.

[RushmoreAcademy]

Another thread, really?

+1000000000000

[willie warrior]

True. Wojo's seat is in no way, shape or form anything above room temperature.

If anything, I'd believe that Wojo is getting impatient with himself. He's a crazily intense competitor and landing one of the top recruits in program history basically got him nothing last season. I don't think Wojo regrets landing HE but what was actually accomplished? Sure, Haanif, JJJ and Traci showed potential for 16-17, but did HE's minutes and volume of shots potentially impede the progress of other players still with the program? Knowing what he knows now, would Wojo have rather landed a 4-year postplayer? If given a re-do, I still think he'd take HE but in the back of his mind, it has to be bothering him that he landed a one-and-done McD AA and a year later has nothing to show for it.

It should bother many more than just wojo.

[UticaBusBarn]

Have not followed all these posts too closely mainly because it seemed like "win-win" situation this past
year.

The Ellenson brothers got to be team-mates and roomies. Wojo was kind enough to have an exhibition game organised so that Elwood could join his two brothers on the Bradley court. Despite wanting Henry to play more post-up, Wojo allowed him to gun away to the tune of less than 30 percent from three point land. Nonetheless, Henry was freshman all everything. Even though Henry was not one to make a team more than the sum of its parts, he received lots of press and scout attention and is likely to go in the first round of the NBA draft. Wally was given lots of freedom and was again a track All-American and has a shot at the Olympics.  Etc.

Everyone more, or less, came out ahead. Just do not understand the sour grapes. What more exactly could one ask for, or have?

[The Lens]

What all of this has taught me is the power of Otule.

Three Ellenson men combined for 5 total years on MU rosters.  Otule alone accounted for 6.

1 Otule > 3 Ellensons

[jsglow]

What all of this has taught me is the power of Otule.

Three Ellenson men combined for 5 total years on MU rosters.  Otule alone accounted for 6.

1 Otule > 3 Ellensons

I hope big Chris is doing well somewhere.  He's truly a great kid and was a real credit to our program.

[keefe]

What all of this has taught me is the power of Otule.

Three Ellenson men combined for 5 total years on MU rosters.  Otule alone accounted for 6.

1 Otule > 3 Ellensons

F#cking great, man!

[TSmith34, Inc.]

I hope big Chris is doing well somewhere.  He's truly a great kid and was a real credit to our program.

Playing in Germany it appears

[DienerTime34]

True. Wojo's seat is in no way, shape or form anything above room temperature.

If anything, I'd believe that Wojo is getting impatient with himself. He's a crazily intense competitor and landing one of the top recruits in program history basically got him nothing last season. I don't think Wojo regrets landing HE but what was actually accomplished? Sure, Haanif, JJJ and Traci showed potential for 16-17, but did HE's minutes and volume of shots potentially impede the progress of other players still with the program? Knowing what he knows now, would Wojo have rather landed a 4-year postplayer? If given a re-do, I still think he'd take HE but in the back of his mind, it has to be bothering him that he landed a one-and-done McD AA and a year later has nothing to show for it.

What if we whiff on the NCAA and NIT this upcoming season? Does the seat get to room temperature?

[mu03eng]

What if we whiff on the NCAA and NIT this upcoming season? Does the seat get to room temperature?

Absolutely and it should, we would have had an entire recruiting class graduate without achieving an NCAA post season attempt.

[MerrittsMustache]

What if we whiff on the NCAA and NIT this upcoming season? Does the seat get to room temperature?

Yes. The actual "temperature" will depend on how the team gets to that point. Is there major regression from certain players? Is there a lack of development? Are there any midseason transfers? Bad chemistry? Blown opportunities? Same mistakes over and over? Consistently outcoached? Losing winnable games? Or is it simply a matter of just not being good enough again?

[PBRme]

What I feel is really driving him (and you have to understand I never had a good feeling about Wojo, so take what I think with a grain of salt) is the Duke job. He needs to produce sooner than later to have a chance at this job.

Ding ding ding Bilsu nails it

[ChicosBailBonds]

What all of this has taught me is the power of Otule.

Three Ellenson men combined for 5 total years on MU rosters.  Otule alone accounted for 6.

1 Otule > 3 Ellensons

Like!

[jaygall31]

The bolded couldn't be more wrong.

You dont think Wojo is feeling the heat? He has to be.

[MerrittsMustache]

You dont think Wojo is feeling the heat? He has to be.

The heat from what? His contract extension?

[NotAnAlum]

[quote author=MerrittsMustache link=topic=51696.msg833490#msg833490 date=1461690005

If anything, I'd believe that Wojo is getting impatient with himself. He's a crazily intense competitor and landing one of the top recruits in program history basically got him nothing last season.[/quote]

I wonder if Wojo may have underestimated the BE a little.  He's finding out that this is a pretty tough league and your guys need to be pretty tough just to compete.  Next year facing X and SH which both could easily be top 10 teams if their underclassmen return and Nova that appears to be simply reloading he is going to need a complete roster to avoid finishing below 500 for a 3rd year.

[ChicosBailBonds]

You dont think Wojo is feeling the heat? He has to be.

He's about to enter year three, and year 2 was a lot better than year 1.  Exactly what heat should he be feeling?

[ChicosBailBonds]

[quote author=MerrittsMustache link=topic=51696.msg833490#msg833490 date=1461690005

If anything, I'd believe that Wojo is getting impatient with himself. He's a crazily intense competitor and landing one of the top recruits in program history basically got him nothing last season.

I wonder if Wojo may have underestimated the BE a little.  He's finding out that this is a pretty tough league and your guys need to be pretty tough just to compete.  Next year facing X and SH which both could easily be top 10 teams if their underclassmen return and Nova that appears to be simply reloading he is going to need a complete roster to avoid finishing below 500 for a 3rd year.

I doubt he is underestimating the Big East.  He took over a team that was not good, had the wrong pieces, he lost guys through transfers, and is now rebuilding.

That's all this is, a typical rebuilding job...too many people making this into something it isn't. 

[MU82]

I agree with both of Chicos' last two points.

[JakeBarnes]

He's about to enter year three, and year 2 was a lot better than year 1.  Exactly what heat should he be feeling?

A fire. More specifically in his belly and not on his seat.

[Nukem2]

I doubt he is underestimating the Big East.  He took over a team that was not good, had the wrong pieces, he lost guys through transfers, and is now rebuilding.

That's all this is, a typical rebuilding job...too many people making this into something it isn't.

Yep.

[Badgerhater]

I am going to optimistically think that MU next year will be more successful than this last year because it has a good core of experienced players who will mesh together well with new players in a scheme that doesn't revolve around a single player.  This balanced scheme when combined with solid defense will mitigate their lack of height inside.

Barring injuries, I expect this outcome and will consider Wojo to be the problem if it does not come to fruition.

[Holly Ellenson is my Mom]

Wally getting das boot really needs to motivate Sandy.  This should definitely up his minutes and he needs to improve his shooting capabilities.  Duane, Traci, and Haanif can do the driving.  Need him to become a Jake Thomas like role (better shooting though).  Wojo came from Duke, he should know how to prioritize shooting

[Loose Cannon]

I am going to optimistically think that MU next year will be more successful than this last year because it has a good core of experienced players who will mesh together well with new players in a scheme that doesn't revolve around a single player.  This balanced scheme when combined with solid defense will mitigate their lack of height inside.

Barring injuries, I expect this outcome and will consider Wojo to be the problem if it does not come to fruition.

Since we went from 13 to 20 wins last year, from your above comments, how many wins do you see next year?

[GGGG]

Wally getting das boot really needs to motivate Sandy.  This should definitely up his minutes and he needs to improve his shooting capabilities.  Duane, Traci, and Haanif can do the driving.  Need him to become a Jake Thomas like role (better shooting though).  Wojo came from Duke, he should know how to prioritize shooting

Things I never thought I would read on MUScoop.

[DienerTime34]

Things I never thought I would read on MUScoop.

We also need players to fill in the Niv Berkowtiz, Trend Blackledge and Youssoupha Mbao roles.

[The Lens]

Jake Thomas lost to our Priest in a 3 point contest at our kids' school's Sports Night.  Seriously.

[MerrittsMustache]

Things I never thought I would read on MUScoop.

Clearly he wants Sandy to fill the role of "below average, try-hard player who sees big minutes because there's absolutely no one else on the roster to take those minutes."

[Bocephys]

We also need players to fill in the Niv Berkowtiz, Trend Blackledge and Youssoupha Mbao roles.

I do miss someone looking lost at the top of a 1-3-1 zone.

[Badgerhater]

Since we went from 13 to 20 wins last year, from your above comments, how many wins do you see next year?

Since 20 wins got MU the same thing as 13 wins.....MU needs to be over .500 in conference and get an NCAA berth.

[mu03eng]

I do miss someone looking lost at the top of a 1-3-1 zone.

FIFY

[Loose Cannon]

Since 20 wins got MU the same thing as 13 wins.....MU needs to be over .500 in conference and get an NCAA berth.

  OK  Over 500 in Conf.....and make the NCAA.  Which would mean 1-2 losses in OOC.


  I think that works...........Thanks

[4everwarriors]

What if we whiff on the NCAA and NIT this upcoming season? Does the seat get to room temperature?

Only if Wojo chits his Fruit of da Looms, ai na?

[oldwarrior81]

I do miss someone looking lost at the top of a 1-3-1 zone.

Did you see Markus Howard play zone in the New York tourney last month?

[Groin_pull]

Jake Thomas lost to our Priest in a 3 point contest at our kids' school's Sports Night.  Seriously.

I can believe it.

[4everwarriors]

Does yo priest have any eligibility left, hey?