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Author Topic: [Paint Touches] How will Wally Ellenson Leaving Effect Marquette?  (Read 14713 times)

Anti-Dentite

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Re: [Paint Touches] How will Wally Ellenson Leaving Effect Marquette?
« Reply #25 on: April 23, 2016, 08:19:03 PM »
My position is this. I'm not a fan of how Wally was dismissed. We can banter about all the pluses and minuses, but the kid wanted to keep playing basketball and MU made that impossible. Wally will be okay and I don't expect long-term negative ramifications, but it leaves a sour taste. We could have used the Reinhardt scholarship on a big, we could have sent someone packing who could retain eligibility, we could have better prepared him to make sure he was eligible to leave as a graduate transfer.

What this says to me is "respect the process" is over. We are in win-now mode and that starts November 11. I've been fine with patience in the name of cleaning things up and improving the image of the program. If that will be eschewed, then we need to be back in the Tournament next year. Anything less would be a failure on the part of the coaching staff.

Let's get back to March runs and lots of wins.
Agree completely.
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TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: [Paint Touches] How will Wally Ellenson Leaving Effect Marquette?
« Reply #26 on: April 23, 2016, 08:22:25 PM »
I'm a Marquette fan too.  You gotta have your head in the sand to not at least admit this is sketchy, but hey, it's what big time hoops programs do.  They get to the postseason too, so let's get back to doing that as well.

Why is it sketchy? Wally was cut. He was cut because there are 14 people interested in playing for Marquette basketball and he was the worst of them. This happens at every level of basketball from the professionals all the way down to high school. Despite being cut, Wojo went out of his way to make sure Wally still had a scholarship to attend Marquette for free. That's better than 99% of other players who get cut from their teams. The way I see it, Wojo and Marquette showed incredible class to take care of Wally like that. It still sucks that he got cut. I get that. But no one likes being told they are the worst player on their team. But someone has to be.
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hoops12

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Re: [Paint Touches] How will Wally Ellenson Leaving Effect Marquette?
« Reply #27 on: April 23, 2016, 08:31:25 PM »
Well, I may have been misinformed by someone that is on the inside looking out. That's right! I will stick with the information that has credibility. Too many on these boards think they know what is going on, and they are the ones with their heads in the sand.

The overall Marquette fan base has become pathetic and incredibly critical. They have a "What have you done for me lately" mentality. The program must "reach my inflated expectations or else!" Very sad, and people wonder why Crean and Buzz left.

HutchwasClutch

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Re: [Paint Touches] How will Wally Ellenson Leaving Effect Marquette?
« Reply #28 on: April 23, 2016, 08:54:35 PM »
Wojo's job is do what's best for MU men's basketball, period.   He's been entrusted to build the best team he can build year in and year out.  Choosing to keep a lesser player around when there are better options is what would only lead to his demise as MU coach.  I don't think there's much question Reinhardt is an upgrade in talent over Wally.  Same for Gill for Wally if that's what happens.  Long term, maybe even short-term to, Young for Wally holds true as well. 

Nobody knows how Wojo sold Wally on transferring to MU.   But it didn't work out.  That's life, all of us have disappointments.  For all we know from the outside looking in, Wojo maybe was as disappointed in Wally's play this year and that he didn't play well enough to earn more minutes, as much as Wally is disappointed if he was in fact told they're moving on with other options.    To me, it boils down to he just wasn't good enough to earn minutes over other guys this past year.  So what's Wojo's sin there?  Wally still played more games and more minutes than he ever got at Minnesota under Wojo.

Reality for Wally is, he's just not a big time D-1 player.  If he was, he'd land somewhere else to play basketball next season without any problem.  Programs would be lining up now to get him in their school, sure seems doubtful that's happening in any way, shape, or form right now.  If it is, it's obviously a very well kept secret.

We've just become a society where everyone it seems wants to claim victim status.  What doesn't kill you makes you stronger is 100% true.

What were Wojo's options here?  Tell him we still want you back Wally and he plays at best uneven minutes again next year, when the roster is unquestionably deeper and more experienced?  Then he is a jerk choosing that option.     

Wojo did the right thing and what's best for our program.  If he was truly giving Wally a raw deal and used him to get his more talented brother, other programs would snap Wally up in a minute. Wally will be fine.  This level of basketball was just not for him.

Stretchdeltsig

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Re: [Paint Touches] How will Wally Ellenson Leaving Effect Marquette?
« Reply #29 on: April 23, 2016, 08:59:53 PM »
It is not little league or grade school.  It is the head coach's responsibility to play the 13 best players period. 

jsglow

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Re: [Paint Touches] How will Wally Ellenson Leaving Effect Marquette?
« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2016, 08:44:19 AM »
Wojo's job is do what's best for MU men's basketball, period.   He's been entrusted to build the best team he can build year in and year out.  Choosing to keep a lesser player around when there are better options is what would only lead to his demise as MU coach.  I don't think there's much question Reinhardt is an upgrade in talent over Wally.  Same for Gill for Wally if that's what happens.  Long term, maybe even short-term to, Young for Wally holds true as well. 

Nobody knows how Wojo sold Wally on transferring to MU.   But it didn't work out.  That's life, all of us have disappointments.  For all we know from the outside looking in, Wojo maybe was as disappointed in Wally's play this year and that he didn't play well enough to earn more minutes, as much as Wally is disappointed if he was in fact told they're moving on with other options.    To me, it boils down to he just wasn't good enough to earn minutes over other guys this past year.  So what's Wojo's sin there?  Wally still played more games and more minutes than he ever got at Minnesota under Wojo.

Reality for Wally is, he's just not a big time D-1 player.  If he was, he'd land somewhere else to play basketball next season without any problem.  Programs would be lining up now to get him in their school, sure seems doubtful that's happening in any way, shape, or form right now. If it is, it's obviously a very well kept secret.

We've just become a society where everyone it seems wants to claim victim status.  What doesn't kill you makes you stronger is 100% true.

What were Wojo's options here?  Tell him we still want you back Wally and he plays at best uneven minutes again next year, when the roster is unquestionably deeper and more experienced?  Then he is a jerk choosing that option.     

Wojo did the right thing and what's best for our program.  If he was truly giving Wally a raw deal and used him to get his more talented brother, other programs would snap Wally up in a minute. Wally will be fine.  This level of basketball was just not for him.

Hutch, while I've offered my views on this I just wanted to clarify one thing for you.  Wojo's decision to cut Wally effectively ended his basketball career.  One must use their eligibility up in 5 years (except for rare exceptions like OTule).  Because Wally is not in a position to graduate this May (or August), he would be required to sit out next year if he transferred.  That would have him utilizing his one year of remaining basketball eligibility in '17-'18, beyond the cutoff window.  As some have mentioned, D3 is an option but let's leave out that technicality.

That part does suck a little.  But many would say it's a price that needed to be paid.  Remember that he has been afforded the opportunity to finish his degree at Marquette under full scholarship.  For many, that fulfilled the moral obligation.

But you know what?  I guy named Mike Fons ended my basketball career when I was a HS Frosh.  (I sucked and didn't make the team.)  And a guy named Jim Haluska ended my football career after my Senior year cause no college was interested in my services.  And so it goes.

HutchwasClutch

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Re: [Paint Touches] How will Wally Ellenson Leaving Effect Marquette?
« Reply #31 on: April 24, 2016, 05:27:13 PM »
Hutch, while I've offered my views on this I just wanted to clarify one thing for you.  Wojo's decision to cut Wally effectively ended his basketball career.  One must use their eligibility up in 5 years (except for rare exceptions like OTule).  Because Wally is not in a position to graduate this May (or August), he would be required to sit out next year if he transferred.  That would have him utilizing his one year of remaining basketball eligibility in '17-'18, beyond the cutoff window.  As some have mentioned, D3 is an option but let's leave out that technicality.

That part does suck a little.  But many would say it's a price that needed to be paid.  Remember that he has been afforded the opportunity to finish his degree at Marquette under full scholarship.  For many, that fulfilled the moral obligation.

But you know what?  I guy named Mike Fons ended my basketball career when I was a HS Frosh.  (I sucked and didn't make the team.)  And a guy named Jim Haluska ended my football career after my Senior year cause no college was interested in my services.  And so it goes.

Yeah, after my post last night, I was reading other posts from earlier in the week and came across this info.  And I agree with you that part no doubt sucks.  And that does make me more sympathetic to Wally and less a defender of Wojo in all of this.

However, I'll just say after he announced he was leaving Minnesota, it didn't seem like we had a lot of programs to beat out for his services.  If someone has info to the contrary about that, I'd like to hear about it.  Otherwise, it goes back to where I come down on this that high major D-1 ball was just not for him, and even if he had a realistic chance of playing somewhere else still, doubtful there would be much, if any interest. 

Thanks though jsglow.

Stretchdeltsig

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Re: [Paint Touches] How will Wally Ellenson Leaving Effect Marquette?
« Reply #32 on: April 24, 2016, 05:31:13 PM »
I like Wally, but, the team can be better with a more talented recruit.  And, we need to improve to compete in the BE.

Herman Cain

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Re: [Paint Touches] How will Wally Ellenson Leaving Effect Marquette?
« Reply #33 on: April 24, 2016, 07:53:55 PM »
Wojo's job is do what's best for MU men's basketball, period.   He's been entrusted to build the best team he can build year in and year out.  Choosing to keep a lesser player around when there are better options is what would only lead to his demise as MU coach.  I don't think there's much question Reinhardt is an upgrade in talent over Wally.  Same for Gill for Wally if that's what happens.  Long term, maybe even short-term to, Young for Wally holds true as well. 

Nobody knows how Wojo sold Wally on transferring to MU.   But it didn't work out.  That's life, all of us have disappointments.  For all we know from the outside looking in, Wojo maybe was as disappointed in Wally's play this year and that he didn't play well enough to earn more minutes, as much as Wally is disappointed if he was in fact told they're moving on with other options.    To me, it boils down to he just wasn't good enough to earn minutes over other guys this past year.  So what's Wojo's sin there?  Wally still played more games and more minutes than he ever got at Minnesota under Wojo.

Reality for Wally is, he's just not a big time D-1 player.  If he was, he'd land somewhere else to play basketball next season without any problem.  Programs would be lining up now to get him in their school, sure seems doubtful that's happening in any way, shape, or form right now.  If it is, it's obviously a very well kept secret.

We've just become a society where everyone it seems wants to claim victim status.  What doesn't kill you makes you stronger is 100% true.

What were Wojo's options here?  Tell him we still want you back Wally and he plays at best uneven minutes again next year, when the roster is unquestionably deeper and more experienced?  Then he is a jerk choosing that option.     

Wojo did the right thing and what's best for our program.  If he was truly giving Wally a raw deal and used him to get his more talented brother, other programs would snap Wally up in a minute. Wally will be fine.  This level of basketball was just not for him.
I agree with this analysis.

Also I would add the following amendment. Wally was welcome to stay on the team as a walk on and continue with track as a walk on. This would require him to pay a year worth of tuition etc. NCAA rules prohibit him from playing basketball while on a track scholarship. So in reality the choice was made by the family to pursue the track only option.

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4everwarriors

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Re: [Paint Touches] How will Wally Ellenson Leaving Effect Marquette?
« Reply #34 on: April 24, 2016, 08:03:26 PM »
Gettin back to da original question, this should improve da roster, provided Wojo can improve his evaluatin' of talent, hey?
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Herman Cain

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Re: [Paint Touches] How will Wally Ellenson Leaving Effect Marquette?
« Reply #35 on: April 24, 2016, 08:07:13 PM »
Gettin back to da original question, this should improve da roster, provided Wojo can improve his evaluatin' of talent, hey?
Emphasis on your proviso, Yes.
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Stretchdeltsig

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Re: [Paint Touches] How will Wally Ellenson Leaving Effect Marquette?
« Reply #36 on: April 24, 2016, 08:11:09 PM »
Da.

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Re: [Paint Touches] How will Wally Ellenson Leaving Effect Marquette?
« Reply #37 on: April 24, 2016, 09:27:30 PM »
Gettin back to da original question, this should improve da roster, provided Wojo can improve his evaluatin' of talent, hey?

Well, his first full class included Cheatham, Carter, and Ellenson. All dynamic Big East performers after further evaluation.

Dawson Rental

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Re: [Paint Touches] How will Wally Ellenson Leaving Effect Marquette?
« Reply #38 on: April 24, 2016, 10:57:04 PM »
So I was going to make a joke about "The Dukiet-Crean Era," and when I was Googling for the exact dates, I came across this:

http://archives.chicagotribune.com/1989/03/17/page/82/article/marquette-decides-to-dump-dukiet

First I came across this little tidbit of information, and holy shnikes... I never thought I'd say this, but think of the sh|tstorm (to put it mildly) MU avoided by hiring Crean.

I'm not sure what you're saying given that Crean was hired 10 years after Dukiet was let go.
You actually have a degree from Marquette?

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jsglow

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Re: [Paint Touches] How will Wally Ellenson Leaving Effect Marquette?
« Reply #39 on: April 25, 2016, 07:32:12 AM »
I agree with this analysis.

Also I would add the following amendment. Wally was welcome to stay on the team as a walk on and continue with track as a walk on. This would require him to pay a year worth of tuition etc. NCAA rules prohibit him from playing basketball while on a track scholarship. So in reality the choice was made by the family to pursue the track only option.

Excellent point.  The Ellenson family pricetag for Wally to play hoops next year would be roughly $50k.  Which leads to another question I'm sure someone knows the answer to.  Could Wally transfer, walk-on, and play immediately at a D1 if he chose to?

Herman Cain

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Re: [Paint Touches] How will Wally Ellenson Leaving Effect Marquette?
« Reply #40 on: April 25, 2016, 09:12:41 AM »
Excellent point.  The Ellenson family pricetag for Wally to play hoops next year would be roughly $50k.  Which leads to another question I'm sure someone knows the answer to.  Could Wally transfer, walk-on, and play immediately at a D1 if he chose to?
Only if he graduates between now and the fall.
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MomofMUltiples

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Re: [Paint Touches] How will Wally Ellenson Leaving Effect Marquette?
« Reply #41 on: April 25, 2016, 02:40:11 PM »
I think a lot of folks don't realize that Tubby also recruited Wally with his eye on Henry. His first year, he played garbage minutes in the preseason until he broke his hand and was out.  His sophomore year, little Pitino put his foot down about participating in track, and Wally left the team so quietly that many of us major Gopher boosters didn't realize he was gone for a couple months.

So, Wally's had a tough D-1 basketball career to say the least.  But a lot of that has been due to his single minded desire to play basketball and jump. I'm torn over the way this went down, but Wally got a great year of cutting hair with his brother.  Hope he can embrace that and move on.
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jsglow

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Re: [Paint Touches] How will Wally Ellenson Leaving Effect Marquette?
« Reply #42 on: April 25, 2016, 03:03:00 PM »
Only if he graduates between now and the fall.

But then he could also play as a Grad Transfer.

wadesworld

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Re: [Paint Touches] How will Wally Ellenson Leaving Effect Marquette?
« Reply #43 on: April 26, 2016, 07:43:33 PM »
I'll be honest and say I didn't have time to read through this thread/article yet, but how it will effect Marquette is they will have a better basketball team next year.
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TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: [Paint Touches] How will Wally Ellenson Leaving Effect Marquette?
« Reply #44 on: April 26, 2016, 08:38:58 PM »
I'll be honest and say I didn't have time to read through this thread/article yet, but how it will effect Marquette is they will have a better basketball team next year.

You pretty much summarized the article
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Benny B

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Re: [Paint Touches] How will Wally Ellenson Leaving Effect Marquette?
« Reply #45 on: April 26, 2016, 09:14:37 PM »
I'm not sure what you're saying given that Crean was hired 10 years after Dukiet was let go.

Ha... I meant O'Neill.... Crean was just the end of that Era.
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