NFC North/NFL Thread 2016-17

[mu03eng]

The 2 yard challenge was hilarious. How does that happen? The timeouts bothered me a little less. At least with the first you could see what they were going for, which has often worked for them in past years. Probably time to hang up that end of half strategy, given our defense. And the 4th down timeout was weird, but I was feeling good enough about the night by then that I could let it go. Crazy how winning makes everything better.

Loved the new look offense last night. Let's keep that up.

Maybe I'm being a negative Ned, but I can't remember a single time that the timeouts with a team backed-up at half time strategy has worked out that the Packers got the ball back and scored. I've seen it not result in the other team getting points, but thats a low bar.

We need a stat nerd on this immediately.

[wadesworld]

I can't believe I am doing this, but I just looked up the Lions schedule and see they have some losable games coming up at New Orleans, at New York Giants and at Dallas.

Why?  Because if the Packers win out, they will be ahead of Minnesota for sure based on the record in the division tie-breaker.  They would just need the Lions to lose one additional game.

THERE'S A CHANCE!!!!

I actually think the Packers can afford a loss to either Houston or Seattle and still get into the Playoffs.  If the Packers were to beat both the Vikings and the Lions I don't see either of those 2 teams having any less than 7 losses, and the Packers would almost surely have the tiebreaker on both, being 2-0 against Detroit and 1-1 against the Vikings but having the best record within the division.

Let's say the Packers do beat the Lions.  That means to finish with less than 7 losses, the Lions would have to win 2 of at NYG, at Dallas, and at NO.  That's tough.

[jesmu84]

I agree: Don't reach with a top-5 pick for a QB you are not 99.9% sure about.

I also agree that a team shouldn't draft a QB just for the sake of drafting a QB. A team should scout its balls off and find good QB prospects to take in the middle to late rounds. Maybe a guy has skills and smarts but is considered a little too small (Russell Wilson). Maybe a guy has promise but made an off-the-field mistake that hurts his status (Prescott). Maybe a guy was considered only "competent and boring" in college but had some NFL skills (Brady). Drug rumors dropped Marino to the end of the first round. Tiny stature dropped Brees out of the first round. Etc, etc, etc.

Those are the outliers, of course. For every Brady, there are dozens upon dozens of busts. But teams DO find these prospects. It happens every couple/few drafts that a non-1st rounder is taken who becomes a good NFL QB. Some even become great!

Of course, the other factor to success/failure is team make-up. Prescott walked into a all-pro rookie RB and an all-pro offensive line with a top 5 WR. If the Browns take Prescott, I don't think he would have had the same year or career. Same with Wilson in Seattle except it was more about his defense being outstanding. Blake Bortles may have been an all-pro in those or similar situations, but instead he'll flounder in Jacksonville for a couple more years before becoming a career back-up.

So, so many factors go into success/failure of a QB. Most/many outside of their control.

[tower912]

A year ago, there was less contact with Aaron Rodgers facemask on the next to last play against Detroit than there was on Bradford's head on that 2 pt conversion.    If I was a Minnesota fan, I would be torqued.    If I was an NFL conspiracy theorist, here would be one more piece of evidence. 

[tower912]

I actually think the Packers can afford a loss to either Houston or Seattle and still get into the Playoffs.  If the Packers were to beat both the Vikings and the Lions I don't see either of those 2 teams having any less than 7 losses, and the Packers would almost surely have the tiebreaker on both, being 2-0 against Detroit and 1-1 against the Vikings but having the best record within the division.

Let's say the Packers do beat the Lions.  That means to finish with less than 7 losses, the Lions would have to win 2 of at NYG, at Dallas, and at NO.  That's tough.

No one ever goes broke betting against the Lions. 

[GGGG]

A year ago, there was less contact with Aaron Rodgers facemask on the next to last play against Detroit than there was on Bradford's head on that 2 pt conversion.    If I was a Minnesota fan, I would be torqued.    If I was an NFL conspiracy theorist, here would be one more piece of evidence. 

I just think the ref didn't see it due to where he was standing and how the Cowboy hit his shoulder with the left arm.  If the umpire was still behind the defensive line, that likely gets called.

And really any call that screws over the Vikings, no matter how unjust it is, is fine by me. 

[MerrittsMustache]

A year ago, there was less contact with Aaron Rodgers facemask on the next to last play against Detroit than there was on Bradford's head on that 2 pt conversion.    If I was a Minnesota fan, I would be torqued.    If I was an NFL conspiracy theorist, here would be one more piece of evidence.

The NFL replay system needs an overhaul. Any clear-cut call that can easily be corrected should be reviewable. Obviously, they don't want to start reviewing subjective penalties like holding, PI, etc but when there are clear-cut rules like "You can't hit the QB in the head" and the QB blatantly gets hit in the head but no flag is thrown, it should be corrected. On the other hand, if a personal foul facemask penalty is called but there was no grasping of the facemask, the flag should be picked up.

[GGGG]

The NFL replay system needs an overhaul. Any clear-cut call that can easily be corrected should be reviewable. Obviously, they don't want to start reviewing subjective penalties like holding, PI, etc but when there are clear-cut rules like "You can't hit the QB in the head" and the QB blatantly gets hit in the head but no flag is thrown, it should be corrected. On the other hand, if a personal foul facemask penalty is called but there was no grasping of the facemask, the flag should be picked up.

Maybe instead of replay review, the replay official should be allowed to throw a flag within a certain amount of time after the end of the play for personal foul penalties.  Say 20 seconds?  And instead of it being reviewed, it should just be called.

I wouldn't want that for items like holding, pass interference, etc.  But for clear personal fouls that the regular crew misses.

[tower912]

And really any call that screws over the Vikings, no matter how unjust it is, is fine by me.

I don't mind that the Vikings lost.   This just reinforces the conspiracy theory that there is a double standard in the NFL when it comes to close calls.    I remember Suh getting flagged and fined for a two-handed push in Cutler's back while he was still upright and running with the ball past the line of scrimmage.   

[GGGG]

Yeah I'm not going there.  Suh is a moron.

[tower912]

He is.   And he has made several plays where he deserved to be fined and suspended.    So let us take him out of the equation.   If Rodgers or Brady had received a shot to the head like Bradford did under the same circumstances, would a penalty have been called?

[MerrittsMustache]

I don't mind that the Vikings lost.   This just reinforces the conspiracy theory that there is a double standard in the NFL when it comes to close calls.    I remember Suh getting flagged and fined for a two-handed push in Cutler's back while he was still upright and running with the ball past the line of scrimmage.   

That play was similar to the phantom facemask call. It looked like it was a personal foul in real time (i.e. that he drilled him in the back of the head) but on a second viewing, he obviously didn't.

With all the technology out there, you'd think it wouldn't be too difficult for the officials in NY to notify the on-field refs and let them know that there was an obvious mistake.

[MerrittsMustache]

He is.   And he has made several plays where he deserved to be fined and suspended.    So let us take him out of the equation.   If Rodgers or Brady had received a shot to the head like Bradford did under the same circumstances, would a penalty have been called?

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000305848/McClellin-called-for-roughing-Rodgers

http://thevikingage.com/2015/11/24/minnesota-vikings-aaron-rodgers-teddy-bridgewater/

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000460430/Freeman-called-for-roughing-the-passer-on-Brady

[GGGG]

He is.   And he has made several plays where he deserved to be fined and suspended.    So let us take him out of the equation.   If Rodgers or Brady had received a shot to the head like Bradford did under the same circumstances, would a penalty have been called?

No because I think the referee just didn't see it. 

[🏀]

The fact that the call is being discussed, is the problem with the NFL.

After every play you are waiting to see if it actually counted.

[drewm88]

No because I think the referee just didn't see it.

Agreed.

[wadesworld]

Packers have given up points in the last 2 minutes of the first half in every single game this year. That is horrific. Hopefully that ends today.

[tower912]

8-4.    First time all season without a fourth quarter deficit.   First decided by more than 7.     Stafford being kept on his feet.   

[DegenerateDish]

Vic Fangio rumor is pretty troubling to me, especially if Fox stays. I don't get why he would be let go, on my list of Bears problems, Fangio is maybe last on the list.

[MerrittsMustache]

Vic Fangio rumor is pretty troubling to me, especially if Fox stays. I don't get why he would be let go, on my list of Bears problems, Fangio is maybe last on the list.

I'd replace Fox and Loggains before Fangio. The D has gone from 31st pre-Fangio to 14th to 7th this season (yards allowed). Granted, they create very few TOs, primarily because there are no play-makers in the secondary, but they actually have a pass rush. Apparently Fox isn't a fan of Fangio's philosophy.

[MU B2002]

Vic Fangio rumor is pretty troubling to me, especially if Fox stays. I don't get why he would be let go, on my list of Bears problems, Fangio is maybe last on the list.

Is he even on the list?  I don't get this one at all.  When you look at what he has done with the guys that are missing, it is baffling that there would be any heat on him. 

crap, I would fire Fox and give Vic the head job before cutting him loose.

[GGGG]

Vic Fangio rumor is pretty troubling to me, especially if Fox stays. I don't get why he would be let go, on my list of Bears problems, Fangio is maybe last on the list.

This smells of chain of command issues that continue to plague the organization.  Pace was required to work with Fox, and it sounds to me that Fox is creating fall guys to save his ass and selling it to ownership. 

They should have just let Pace hire his guy from the beginning instead of listening to Acorsi who wanted his guy in there.

[MerrittsMustache]

This smells of chain of command issues that continue to plague the organization.  Pace was required to work with Fox, and it sounds to me that Fox is creating fall guys to save his ass and selling it to ownership. 

They should have just let Pace hire his guy from the beginning instead of listening to Acorsi who wanted his guy in there.

Agreed...or Emery should have listened to everyone around him and hired Bruce Arians in 2013.


Would anyone be surprised if the Bears beat the Lions this weekend? I mean, the Bears winning thus hurting their draft position and the 1st place Lions losing at home to an awful team just feels like something that would happen with these franchises, doesn't it?

[jesmu84]

Agreed...or Emery should have listened to everyone around him and hired Bruce Arians in 2013.


Would anyone be surprised if the Bears beat the Lions this weekend? I mean, the Bears winning thus hurting their draft position and the 1st place Lions losing at home to an awful team just feels like something that would happen with these franchises, doesn't it?

To be fair, I think it's pretty widely known that the decision to not hire Arians was not Emery's decision, but ownerships decision. Something about Arians not wanting to do a mock press conference

[DegenerateDish]

Agreed...or Emery should have listened to everyone around him and hired Bruce Arians in 2013.


Would anyone be surprised if the Bears beat the Lions this weekend? I mean, the Bears winning thus hurting their draft position and the 1st place Lions losing at home to an awful team just feels like something that would happen with these franchises, doesn't it?

I'd be very surprised if the Bears won this weekend. There should be enough game tape on Barkley by now, especially having played two of the worst pass defenses. I'd imagine 8 in the box regularly to stop Howard.