State of the program now...

[dgies9156]

Interesting question about the state of the program. I'd argue this:

1) We're in transition. The transition started with Buzz's last year, when he basically mailed it in and when Vander elected to bolt for the D-Leagues. We're still deep in it, though there is beginning to appear light at the end of the tunnel.

2) Wojo is an incredible recruiter. I've been impressed. Now, can he coach? There are times when I feel like he really is Coach K Jr., and there are times when I wonder whether he is Mike Deane II. Fortunately, we have seen more of the Coach K legacy as of late. Games like Providence tell me he's getting there. Games like Xavier tell me that if he had sophomores or juniors instead of freshmen, we'd be Top 20!

3) The effect of Henry is an interesting debate. We all know he is good. In fact, he's better when he's part of a team effort and not trying to do it all himself or prove he belongs in the NBA. Even Michael Jordan was better and did more when he got the most from his teammates!

4) If Henry leaves, it may not be Hiroshima. In some ways, there is a tendency to "Let Henry do It" on this team. When it doubt, find Henry and let him go at it. When Henry leaves, whether it be in 2016 or 2017, or 2018 for that matter (I can hope!), the question will be "who will step up?"

5) The closest parallel I can imagine to where we are with Henry was the Jim Chones situation in 1972. Chones was an All-American and probably the second best center in the nation (to Bill Walton). Our team was explosive with Chones and lost without him. We made the NCAA but lost in the second round to the Bigot at the University of Kentucky. The interlude was only about two years as the recruitment of Maurice Lucas and Bo Ellis got Marquette into the National Championship in 1974 (and, yes, we made the tournament in 1973, losing to Bobby Knight's first team at Indiana in Nashville). What we don't know if that if Henry leaves, what's the short-term and intermediate-term card Coach Wojo has up his sleeve. He's a bright guy and I'm sure he has something cooking.

All in all, the state of our program is improving. With a little luck and a little more Henry, we'll be where we think we ought to be. With a lot more Henry, we might be VERY, VERY good! Yeah, I know, I can hope.

[Lennys Tap]

Interesting question about the state of the program. I'd argue this:

1) We're in transition. The transition started with Buzz's last year, when he basically mailed it in and when Vander elected to bolt for the D-Leagues. We're still deep in it, though there is beginning to appear light at the end of the tunnel.

2) Wojo is an incredible recruiter. I've been impressed. Now, can he coach? There are times when I feel like he really is Coach K Jr., and there are times when I wonder whether he is Mike Deane II. Fortunately, we have seen more of the Coach K legacy as of late. Games like Providence tell me he's getting there. Games like Xavier tell me that if he had sophomores or juniors instead of freshmen, we'd be Top 20!

You can say a lot about Mike Deane - kind of a lazy recruiter, set a low bar for MU, etc. but that guy was a damn good game coach. Crazy, but damn good. If Wojo can approach Mike's ability on the bench I will be very happy.

[MarquetteDano]

You can say a lot about Mike Deane - kind of a lazy recruiter, set a low bar for MU, etc. but that guy was a damn good game coach. Crazy, but damn good. If Wojo can approach Mike's ability on the bench I will be very happy.

In the short term that may be a tall order.  I think if Wojo can make the progression that O'Neill did as a first-time coach that would be very good.  KO by 1995 had turned into pretty decent game/strategy coach.

Deane was a seasoned wily, veteran coach.  Would love to have someone like him as an assistant for Wojo.

[Marcus92]

Someone set MU82's sarcasm meter to 11. As the President of the Sarcasm Club ("Like we really need your opinion"), I approve.

He's on a roll. Enjoyed every single one.

[MU82]

No question it does (big shoes to fill), but I want to see if he leaves (very likely), and how the team responds, how the new guys play, so on and so forth.

Uh-oh, Chicos ... you were solidly in the "he'll play a second season camp" for months and months and months. Not sure when you changed to the "very likely gone" camp.

My gut was that he would stay a second season as long as Wally also returns. I don't feel as strongly about that now, either, because he has played so well. But hell ... I'll stick with it.

Henry's coming back!

[ChicosBailBonds]

Uh-oh, Chicos ... you were solidly in the "he'll play a second season camp" for months and months and months. Not sure when you changed to the "very likely gone" camp.

My gut was that he would stay a second season as long as Wally also returns. I don't feel as strongly about that now, either, because he has played so well. But hell ... I'll stick with it.

Henry's coming back!

Did I say that, or did I say he SHOULD come back?  I think another year would do wonders for him, like Smart, etc.   His outside shot is brutal, but you can't teach size.  He's savvy, good ball handler, nice mid-J, not much on the hops. 

[MU82]

Did I say that, or did I say he SHOULD come back?  I think another year would do wonders for him, like Smart, etc.   His outside shot is brutal, but you can't teach size.  He's savvy, good ball handler, nice mid-J, not much on the hops.

As I've said in similar situations over the years, I am far too lazy to look up what you said. I know lots of you get off on doing that, but I don't.

All I'll say is that I think I remember because you and I actually were in agreement on the subject. We both "just had a feeling" that Hankster would be here two years, if I recall correctly.

But I've been wrong before (I think it happened in 1997) and I'm guessing I'll be wrong again once before I die.

[bilsu]

Seriously, I like Henry a lot, but to compare him to Bo in any way is pure Blasphemy. I worship at the alter of Bo Ellis.

The people who did not see Bo play have no idea how good he was. Ellenson will tie Ellis for the fresmen leading rebounder the next game if he can pull down 12 rebounds. Ellenson will certainly pass him in the next two games. The big differnce is that Maurice Lucas was the center and a very strong rebounder at 10.6 rebounds a game. Ellis was a very good defensive player and very quick for a 6'9" player. He anchored the back end of the press. There was no way you were going to try to throw a long pass to beat the press with Ellis playing back. Ellis made 53.5% of his shots as a freshmen.

[ChicosBailBonds]

As I've said in similar situations over the years, I am far too lazy to look up what you said. I know lots of you get off on doing that, but I don't.

All I'll say is that I think I remember because you and I actually were in agreement on the subject. We both "just had a feeling" that Hankster would be here two years, if I recall correctly.

But I've been wrong before (I think it happened in 1997) and I'm guessing I'll be wrong again once before I die.

Sorry, I wasn't saying it to be combative.  I really don't remember...it was truly a question on my part.  I'm exhausted, been a long week.  Going to bed in a few minutes and the sun just set.   Peace

[naginiF]

Uh-oh, Chicos ... you were solidly in the "he'll play a second season camp" for months and months and months. Not sure when you changed to the "very likely gone" camp.

My gut was that he would stay a second season as long as Wally also returns. I don't feel as strongly about that now, either, because he has played so well. But hell ... I'll stick with it.

Henry's coming back!

Crap/careful what you ask for!  now i can't tell if it's sarcasm

[bilsu]

I would expect Carter and Haanif to be much more consistant next year and make less mistakes. JJJ took a good step up this year, so while he will be better I would not expect it to be a big step up. We have Duane, Carter, JJJ, Haanif, Cohen returning at the 1 through 3 spots. So it is hard to predict how much Rowsey and Hauser will impact those positions. Hauser may end up starting at the 4. We only have two bigmen and Fischer will have to learn not to get the types of fouls he gets now. While I am sure Wojo knows we need a four, that does not mean he will be successful in recruiting one. However, I have a feeling that if Ellenson goes Bailey will not go on a Mormon mission (maybe that is just wishful thinking). Other teams will also have big losses and I suspect the Big East as a whole will not be as good next year.

[Goose]

Bo Ellis Fans

Did not mean to disrespect Bo. Bo was the SMARTEST freshmen ever, most poised and overall package MU has ever seen in a freshman. That said, HE is playing in a different era and with a watered down supporting cast. Bo had the luxury of a great coach and experienced, great guys around him. IMO what HE is doing this year is extremely incredible and I have a great deal of appreciation for what he has done this season.

In looking back at Bo the thing I loved best was how smart he was. He seldom made a stupid play, played excellent D, great mid range shooter and used the glass and great rebounder. With all of those strengths I am not sure BO would be getting the numbers HE gets with this team around him.

[dgies9156]

Bo Ellis Fans

Bo had the luxury of a great coach and experienced, great guys around him. IMO what HE is doing this year is extremely incredible and I have a great deal of appreciation for what he has done this season.

Henry is no Bo. Bo was an outstanding basketball player. And he did have the advantage of a very talented, experienced team that made the NCAA National Championship game his freshman year. One can only imagine how good Henry would look playing alongside Maurice Lucas!

Bo was no Henry. he was smart and tough as nails, but Henry is far more solidly built for a freshman. He actually looks more like Maurice Lucas. Bo's biggest downside was he was soooo thin! That said, one of my favorite Warriors of all time and a very class act today!

[MU82]

Crap/careful what you ask for!  now i can't tell if it's sarcasm

Yes, the unrelenting negativity of some Scoopers -- even when something positive happens -- does gets the uber-sarcasm in me going.

So when I settle down a little, it's sometimes hard to switch back to "normal mode."

As for Henry ... it's obvious why NBA scouts and GMs are high on him. I'm coming to grips with the lure of The Association simply being too much for him to resist, even if he's loving his time at MU with Wally.

That being said, I still have yet to see anybody here who really "knows" anything regarding Henry. We're all just speculating about what he's thinking. In recent years, even better players than Henry have decided to stay in college for a second season.

Blah blah blah. I'm even getting tired of seeing me write versions of that last paragraph.

Go Warriors!

[Goose]

dgies9156

Agreed completely on Bo. I recently had my two young nephews, who lost their Dad a year ago, at a game and they were given the red carpet treatment by the athletic department. The boys had a chance to meet all the current players and a number of former greats and Bo was fantastic with the boys. While the little guys do not know of Bo's greatness as a player, they were able to see the goodness of the man.

For the record, Bo is not my all time favorite Warrior, but he is definitely high on my list. He was cool from day one and a big time winner. I still remember Johnny Owens giving his career winning % on Sr. night. Numbers that will never be seen again.

[Lennys Tap]

No question it does (big shoes to fill), but I want to see if he leaves (very likely)

Previously you've opined Henry is staying. Now it's "very likely" he's leaving. And when he stays or goes you'll be the first to remind everyone how right you were. Unreal.

[Small Orange Soda]

8th place in a 10 team league, so not so hot.  Hopefully getting better though.  Love to see us in the tourney again soon.

[bilsu]

Bo vs Henry. They are definitely different types of players. There are a lot of differences between Bo's time and now. Bo's weigh(by memory) was around 190 as a freshmen. The big difference is that was before teams were into weight lifting. Most coaches believe that adding muscle decreased mobility back then. Even Lucas who was considered a power player weight a lot less than Ellenson. There was no shot clock. While MU was not the type of team that stalled there was no reason to take a hurried up shot, because the shot clock was expiring. There also was no three point line. Three point line and shot clock have added to Henry's scoring average.

[jsglow]

Too many pages of dribble again.  It's really quite simple.  Wojo will need to sign a credible replacement for HE.  Won't have to be great right out of the box but will need to be a legitimate 25 minute starter.  Accomplish that and we'll be better.  Fail to accomplish that and unless he cooks up a helluva 4-1, we'll regress.

Wojo will get it done.  At this time last year we had exactly zero point guards for '15-'16.

[ChicosBailBonds]

dgies9156

Agreed completely on Bo. I recently had my two young nephews, who lost their Dad a year ago, at a game and they were given the red carpet treatment by the athletic department. The boys had a chance to meet all the current players and a number of former greats and Bo was fantastic with the boys. While the little guys do not know of Bo's greatness as a player, they were able to see the goodness of the man.

For the record, Bo is not my all time favorite Warrior, but he is definitely high on my list. He was cool from day one and a big time winner. I still remember Johnny Owens giving his career winning % on Sr. night. Numbers that will never be seen again.

I was able to work with Bo for 4 years in the athletic department.  Gem of a person.  His daughter, who has since passed, also worked in the department with us.

[Herman Cain]

I think you are vastly underestimating the rest of the team. They are inconsistent but all of them have shown that they can not only contribute but be very good at this level. What they lack is consistency and experience.

Haanif would be a front-runner for be roy if it weren't for Henry. Duane is maddeningly inconsistent but is fearless and has shown the ability to take over a game. JJJ is finally showing us why he was so highly rated. Luke is the best true center in the BEast.

I noticed you left off Sandy and Traci. Sandy has struggled in BEast party but he has shown his athleticism and shooting touch. If he puts it together, he will be very dangerous. I know you don't like Traci but he is going to be our best PG since Diener by the time all is said and done. He can do things with the ball that we haven't seen a of do in years. Hes inconsistent but ifs going to be very good.

Heldt, Anim, and Wally havent shown as much but each have the making of at least being a solid contributor off the bench in the future. Heldt looks just like those project bigs that Bo was always getting and developing into stars.

Henry is very very good. Best player on the team. You are right, he makes everyone else better.  But he is replaceable. His absence is not greater than the growth we will see from the rest of team and the addition of Rowsey and Hauser. We'd be much much better with him but we will still be good without him.

I get the argument that we will be so bad at rebounding that it will negate our growth in other areas. I don't agree with it, I think we will compensate. But I don't understand the argument that one player outweighs the value that every other player will bring.

I agree with this analysis .

Also Wojo and staff will have one more year of experience under their belts and that will help our cause as well .

[Big Papi]

Too many pages of dribble again.  It's really quite simple.  Wojo will need to sign a credible replacement for HE.  Won't have to be great right out of the box but will need to be a legitimate 25 minute starter.  Accomplish that and we'll be better.  Fail to accomplish that and unless he cooks up a helluva 4-1, we'll regress.

Wojo will get it done.  At this time last year we had exactly zero point guards for '15-'16.

Wojo is a great recruiter and motivator so I have no doubts he will get players who can step in if HE leaves. 

The lure of the NBA might be too much for HE but he could very easily come back for his soph year.  I think Wojo can talk HE into coming back for a year.  One more year with Wally.  A chance to be Big East player of the year, NCAA All-American and make the NCAA tourney with a chance to make a deep run.  No inside information but I do feel confident that HE will stay an extra year.  I wish I could say the same about Wojo's coaching ability. 

[brewcity77]

Wojo is a great recruiter and motivator so I have no doubts he will get players who can step in if HE leaves. 

The lure of the NBA might be too much for HE but he could very easily come back for his soph year.  I think Wojo can talk HE into coming back for a year.  One more year with Wally.  A chance to be Big East player of the year, NCAA All-American and make the NCAA tourney with a chance to make a deep run.  No inside information but I do feel confident that HE will stay an extra year.  I wish I could say the same about Wojo's coaching ability.

If Henry looks like a sure-fire top-10 pick, I hope he doesn't. Part of a coach's job is to prepare these young men for their future. Yes, education is great and all, but if Henry's best career option is to go to the NBA, I sincerely hope Wojo doesn't try to hold him back from that. Not taking anything away from all of those lures, but if NCAA glory, playing with his brother, and collegiate accolades are what Henry wants, that should be his decision and his family's. If he looks like a lottery player, Wojo should push him in that direction. All it takes is one bad step to lose that dream forever.

[GGGG]

Wojo's dealt with one-and-done types many times.  He knows how to handle it, and I think brew is right.  He won't try to "re-recruit" Henry back for a second year. 

[Ardmore Mug]

As of today, 2-13, ESPN saying HE is #4.. 
"While his 3-point shot continues to be a bit erratic, there's little question he has the tools to be a lethal stretch-4 with time. It may become a very tough choice for scouts between Ellenson and Bender."