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Author Topic: State of the program now...  (Read 18352 times)

Goose

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Re: State of the program now...
« Reply #75 on: February 11, 2016, 10:29:43 AM »
How anyone can believe the team can be better without HE is insanity. His numbers are off the charts and against great competition. He made Luke better and without HE I think Luke struggles again next season. I want to enjoy watching Henry the next few weeks and really afraid to think about next season.

WellsstreetWanderer

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Re: State of the program now...
« Reply #76 on: February 11, 2016, 10:31:10 AM »

I'll take a second year of HE though :)
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GGGG

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Re: State of the program now...
« Reply #77 on: February 11, 2016, 10:31:44 AM »
I will just point out that Rowsey was just a tad better 3 point shooter last year (38.2%) than Duane is this year (35.6%).  And is is a worse overall shooter than Duane.  (39.4% v. 43.0%)  Rowsey was much more of a volume shooter than Duane was though.

I guess my point is that we shouldn't necessarily expect more from him than we do from guys we already have on the team.  And remember Duane is a guy who some have labelled a disappointment.  (I am not one of those guys.)

MU82

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Re: State of the program now...
« Reply #78 on: February 11, 2016, 10:50:28 AM »
Sarcasm? Moi?

I am totally in agreement with the knowledgeable Scoopers who think Wojo should already have been fired and who know for a fact that players never improve.

Oh, and that we won't win another game after the DePaul loss.

Such knowledge is hard to find on the interwebs, so we're blessed here on Scoop.
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brewcity77

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Re: State of the program now...
« Reply #79 on: February 11, 2016, 11:01:15 AM »
How anyone can believe the team can be better without HE is insanity. His numbers are off the charts and against great competition. He made Luke better and without HE I think Luke struggles again next season. I want to enjoy watching Henry the next few weeks and really afraid to think about next season.

Disagree completely. While we'd certainly be better next year with Henry than without, we have 7 players that will be sophomores or juniors. That's a ton of room for improvement from other players. Henry is a big loss, but we can improve in numerous other ways to offset that loss.
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BM1090

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Re: State of the program now...
« Reply #80 on: February 11, 2016, 11:07:46 AM »
Team will take giant step back when Henry leaves

Doubt it.

BM1090

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Re: State of the program now...
« Reply #81 on: February 11, 2016, 11:11:15 AM »
How anyone can believe the team can be better without HE is insanity. His numbers are off the charts and against great competition. He made Luke better and without HE I think Luke struggles again next season. I want to enjoy watching Henry the next few weeks and really afraid to think about next season.

How did a team that lost Jimmy Butler get better? How did a team that lost DJO and Jae Crowder basically stay the same?

Guys improve. Guys get older. It's pretty common throughout the country.

Vander Blue Man Group

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Re: State of the program now...
« Reply #82 on: February 11, 2016, 11:21:57 AM »
That DePaul loss is killing me right now.  Would love to be going into Saturday's game at 6-6 instead of 5-7. 

WarriorPride68

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Re: State of the program now...
« Reply #83 on: February 11, 2016, 11:26:14 AM »
How did a team that lost Jimmy Butler get better? How did a team that lost DJO and Jae Crowder basically stay the same?

DJO was the leading scorer JFB final season & he returned with a cast of others, fwiw.

When Jae & DJO left; buzz played 5 players over 25 minutes who were all JR/SR (Jamil, Lockett, Vander, Junior, Gardner)

Henry is clear & away the leader in statistics. & return a ton of young kids

I think Mu will continue to make strides and be competitive as hell. Who knows if they will be better without HE around. Too early to tell

Herman Cain

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Re: State of the program now...
« Reply #84 on: February 11, 2016, 11:27:07 AM »
I very much enjoyed the last two games and am happy that this team has been improving as season has moved on. First time in three years I actually look forward to the next game. That said, I had higher hopes for this team when season started and not overly optimistic for next year.

I am shocked at the critical comments made about HE. Bo Ellis was the best freshman contributor in MU history IMO and HE has blown Bo out of the water and that is saying a lot. The kid is the real deal in big time way and will be very, very tough to replace. I love a couple of the younger guys but a lot of holes to fill in moving forward.
Seriously, I like Henry a lot, but to compare him to Bo in any way is pure Blasphemy. I worship at the alter of Bo Ellis. 
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TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: State of the program now...
« Reply #85 on: February 11, 2016, 12:01:52 PM »
One player does not make a team.

Rowsey, Hauser, and improvement from Duane, Fischer, Sandy, Haanie, Traci, JJJ, Wally, Sacar, and Heldt > Henry's production this season.

Honestly, to think otherwise seems absurd to me. Henry is not a basketball God. He is a great player but is replaceable. Even if we take a hit on rebounding, our defense, shooting, turnovers, depth, strength, and experience will all increase. And more than make up for the hit on rebounding.

Keep in mind, players improve at rebounding too. All our returning players' improvement on the boards will help offset the potential loss of Henry.
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Loose Cannon

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Re: State of the program now...
« Reply #86 on: February 11, 2016, 12:15:39 PM »
Team will take giant step back when Henry leaves

To put a face on what you say.  We are 16-9 now.  With this giant step back, what record do we have at this time next year?
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KenoshaWarrior

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Re: State of the program now...
« Reply #87 on: February 11, 2016, 12:20:27 PM »
One player does not make a team.



Tell that to the 2003-2004 team who lost Dwade and returned Diener, Novak.   


Loose Cannon

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Re: State of the program now...
« Reply #88 on: February 11, 2016, 12:22:05 PM »
Kinda depends on who Henry's replacement at PF is. On our roster today the candidates are Sandy, Wally or Sacar. That team would be absolutely physically abused in the Big East. If we get a good,big body to replace Henry it's a different story.

I don't think that's Lost on Wojo.
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Goose

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Re: State of the program now...
« Reply #89 on: February 11, 2016, 12:28:45 PM »
I seriously question if I know one thing about basketball when I read some of these posts. HE has been SOG 7 times and the other nine times he could have been or should have been. The "Engine" got one because everyone was excited he played a decent game. Replacing a double double machine is awfully hard to do. His presence has made everyone better and I think the void of his leaving is going to be very hard to overcome.

I actually think some people downplay HE skill set because they know he is one and done. I have family members that watched the Butler game and said he played OK and know idea what his numbers were in the game.

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: State of the program now...
« Reply #90 on: February 11, 2016, 01:08:56 PM »
Tell that to the 2003-2004 team who lost Dwade and returned Diener, Novak.   

1. D wade is greater than Henry. Not even close.
2. That team also lost Robert Jackson who as a senior was better than Henry though close

Comparing apples and oranges my friend
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tower912

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Re: State of the program now...
« Reply #91 on: February 11, 2016, 01:14:05 PM »
Tell that to the 2003-2004 team who lost Dwade and returned Diener, Novak.   

But that team had Crean coaching it.  His value add was always 3-4 losses a year. (sorry, chicos, you earned this one last night)
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TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: State of the program now...
« Reply #92 on: February 11, 2016, 01:19:24 PM »
I seriously question if I know one thing about basketball when I read some of these posts. HE has been SOG 7 times and the other nine times he could have been or should have been. The "Engine" got one because everyone was excited he played a decent game. Replacing a double double machine is awfully hard to do. His presence has made everyone better and I think the void of his leaving is going to be very hard to overcome.

I actually think some people downplay HE skill set because they know he is one and done. I have family members that watched the Butler game and said he played OK and know idea what his numbers were in the game.

I agree that Henry gets unfairly downplayed. I am one of those people who call out others for downplaying Henry. Henry will be very hard to replace. It's a lot easier to replace him when he's the only one leaving.
TAMU

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Goose

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Re: State of the program now...
« Reply #93 on: February 11, 2016, 01:26:42 PM »
TAMU

You know the game well but think you are missing one point on HE. He flat out makes it easier for everyone on the court. He has made Luke better, opened lanes for HC and everyone else. Aside from HE, IMO only HC, DW, JJJ and Luke are mid to upper level D 1 players. This is not a stacked team with HE and might struggle big time without him.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: State of the program now...
« Reply #94 on: February 11, 2016, 03:07:49 PM »
How anyone can believe the team can be better without HE is insanity. His numbers are off the charts and against great competition. He made Luke better and without HE I think Luke struggles again next season. I want to enjoy watching Henry the next few weeks and really afraid to think about next season.

Depends.  We all know examples of star players leaving teams and the team does just fine if not better.  We also have seen where the team craters.  So I wouldn't call it insanity. 

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: State of the program now...
« Reply #95 on: February 11, 2016, 03:17:42 PM »
It really does not take a rocket scientist to think the void left by HE departing is a rather large one. That alone would give me pause to assume that the team will be better next year. Now, if Wojo manages to land another big then the pieces are there for a solid team. HE departing leaves rather large shoes to fill.

No question it does (big shoes to fill), but I want to see if he leaves (very likely), and how the team responds, how the new guys play, so on and so forth.  I expect other guys to make strides.  I just don't accept it as a done deal that we are going backwards.  Too many examples out there that blow that up, of course many times it goes as you state. 

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: State of the program now...
« Reply #96 on: February 11, 2016, 03:18:42 PM »
Tell that to the 2003-2004 team who lost Dwade and returned Diener, Novak.   

That team lost Robert Jackson and others as well, not just Wade. 

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: State of the program now...
« Reply #97 on: February 11, 2016, 03:19:57 PM »
But that team had Crean coaching it.  His value add was always 3-4 losses a year. (sorry, chicos, you earned this one last night)

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TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: State of the program now...
« Reply #98 on: February 11, 2016, 03:53:35 PM »
TAMU

You know the game well but think you are missing one point on HE. He flat out makes it easier for everyone on the court. He has made Luke better, opened lanes for HC and everyone else. Aside from HE, IMO only HC, DW, JJJ and Luke are mid to upper level D 1 players. This is not a stacked team with HE and might struggle big time without him.

I think you are vastly underestimating the rest of the team. They are inconsistent but all of them have shown that they can not only contribute but be very good at this level. What they lack is consistency and experience.

Haanif would be a front-runner for be roy if it weren't for Henry. Duane is maddeningly inconsistent but is fearless and has shown the ability to take over a game. JJJ is finally showing us why he was so highly rated. Luke is the best true center in the BEast.

I noticed you left off Sandy and Traci. Sandy has struggled in BEast party but he has shown his athleticism and shooting touch. If he puts it together, he will be very dangerous. I know you don't like Traci but he is going to be our best PG since Diener by the time all is said and done. He can do things with the ball that we haven't seen a of do in years. Hes inconsistent but ifs going to be very good.

Heldt, Anim, and Wally havent shown as much but each have the making of at least being a solid contributor off the bench in the future. Heldt looks just like those project bigs that Bo was always getting and developing into stars.

Henry is very very good. Best player on the team. You are right, he makes everyone else better.  But he is replaceable. His absence is not greater than the growth we will see from the rest of team and the addition of Rowsey and Hauser. We'd be much much better with him but we will still be good without him.

I get the argument that we will be so bad at rebounding that it will negate our growth in other areas. I don't agree with it, I think we will compensate. But I don't understand the argument that one player outweighs the value that every other player will bring.
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79Warrior

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Re: State of the program now...
« Reply #99 on: February 11, 2016, 03:55:10 PM »
How anyone can believe the team can be better without HE is insanity. His numbers are off the charts and against great competition. He made Luke better and without HE I think Luke struggles again next season. I want to enjoy watching Henry the next few weeks and really afraid to think about next season.

I agree with you. We will have to have some guys improve dramatically (sandy Cohen for example) for this team to be better.

 

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