Lets talk coaching

[connie]

What concerns me is there's no identity to this team. We've heard for years how tough Marquette guys are. The pros wear it as a badge of honor. I don't see that in this group. Traci is the one guy that plays with an edge.

Maybe that will come as guys get older. Say what you will about Brent, but you knew his guys were gonna be tough SOBs that competed. This group lets a few bad trips down the floor derail them.

I see that in Hanif as well.  It's early, but I think it's there.  And I think we remember that because it was our star guys that had that attitude, and it was that attitude that made them so good, here and in the association. I do agree that whatever it was, we need more of it now.

[WarriorPride68]

That said, I'm not ready to give up on Wojo or start wondering about his "leash" but, as I've stated before, I'd really like to see a grizzled, experienced coach added to the staff.

Didn't Jerry Wainwright interview for spot on staff & help the squad transition between Buzz / Wojo era's? Or was that not an option

[brewcity77]

As far as whether players have improved, I'd say many have. Duane is better. Luke is better. Jajuan is much better. Sandy looked better in November and December, but less so recently. The jury is out there.

As others have noted, these guys are still very young. We have 7 guys that play 50% or more of the minutes. Of those, 2 are juniors, 2 are sophomores, and 3 are freshmen.

Wojo was noted as an excellent developer of talent at Duke. Whether he can translate that with lesser rated players at Marquette in the head role remains to be seen, but I did like that last year, both Carlino and Derrick had their best seasons as collegiate players. Juan and Steve both went from minimal contributors to solid rotation guys. The results may not have been fantastic, but all four of those guys had their best seasons last year under Wojo. I have to think that's a good sign.

Hopefully we'll see continued improvement next year. I think the process is taking longer than many hoped, and frankly it's hard to watch such inconsistency. However at least this year, we have been able to have a little hope. We had a 9-game winning streak that included wins over LSU, ASU, and Wisconsin. We reached 4 conference wins before the end of January. Last year we didn't get there until March 7. Hell, last year at this time we were 10-12 and already knew we wouldn't even be playing in the CBI. This year we have a (far) outside shot at the NCAAs but can realistically see a possibility of getting a NIT berth.

We need strength inside and don't have it, and don't see it coming at the moment. But after inheriting a complete trainwreck of a roster, Wojo has really only had one season to rebuild. This will probably take another year or two to really get where we want it to be. I understand the frustration, because I'm frustrated too, but this is better than it was a year ago, and I believe there are talented enough players here to compete in this league, but it might take until 2017-18 before we're happy with those results.

[Earl Tatum]

I was in favor of getting Wisconsin H.S. BB Players. Good ones. After last night, our state players
can't play with these "Big City" Playground kids.I am wrong.  Also, they must pump iron and ours are veggies..
Ha!Ha!

[WarriorPride68]

Wojo was noted as an excellent developer of talent at Duke. Whether he can translate that with lesser rated players at Marquette in the head role remains to be seen, but I did like that last year, both Carlino and Derrick had their best seasons as collegiate players. Juan and Steve both went from minimal contributors to solid rotation guys. The results may not have been fantastic, but all four of those guys had their best seasons last year under Wojo. I have to think that's a good sign.

Last year reminded me of the woeful 76ers when Evan Turner & MCW would put up garbage stats because they played so much & had nobody else to replace them.

Carlino played 5 more min then ever before and raised avg 1.3 pts (13.7 to 15.0), lowest ast total ever, lowest FG %.

Derrick played career high in mpg & raised avg from 5 ppg to 5.6 & ast from 4.2 to 4.7

Juan jumped from 13 mpg to 29 mpg

Steve jumped from 10 mpg to 23 mpg (3 ppg / 3 reb to 6 ppg / 5 reb)

[brewcity77]

You're looking at the wrong numbers.

Carlino had his highest offensive efficiency, highest eFG%, and highest 3PFG%. Assist rate was down, but that's because he was the secondary PG.

Derrick had his highest offensive efficiency, highest eFG%, highest 3PFG%, highest 2PFG%, and highest assist rate.

Juan had his highest offensive efficiency, highest eFG%, highest 3PFG%, and highest 2PFG%.

Steve is the only one you could really make a case against, as he was more efficient his freshman year, but last year was definitely his most consistent season.

As has been noted, normally as minutes and usage go up, efficiency goes down. For those guys, that wasn't the case. In my eyes, that's still a good sign and not worth dismissing.

[WarriorPride68]

You're looking at the wrong numbers.

Carlino had his highest offensive efficiency, highest eFG%, and highest 3PFG%. Assist rate was down, but that's because he was the secondary PG.

Derrick had his highest offensive efficiency, highest eFG%, highest 3PFG%, highest 2PFG%, and highest assist rate.

Juan had his highest offensive efficiency, highest eFG%, highest 3PFG%, and highest 2PFG%.

Steve is the only one you could really make a case against, as he was more efficient his freshman year, but last year was definitely his most consistent season.

As has been noted, normally as minutes and usage go up, efficiency goes down. For those guys, that wasn't the case. In my eyes, that's still a good sign and not worth dismissing.

And that was all thanks to Wojo?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

And that was all thanks to Wojo?

No. But it certainly wasn't in spite of him.

[Blackhat]

We've got some soft players.   Need a couple JUCOs.   M Jax style.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

This thread reminds me of a point someone else made a while ago. I think it was on a cracked sidewalks podcast. Henry Ellenson was the best and worst thing to happen to Wojo. On the plus side, he is a major talent, will be in the NBA soon, and was a major recruiting coup. On the negative, it artificially accelerated everyone's expectations for this team. I think most of us were reserved to have another down rebuilding year. When Henry signed we thought "We got a burger boy! Anything less than a sweet 16 is a failure!" Without realizing that the rest of the roster is still incomplete.

[brewcity77]

This thread reminds me of a point someone else made a while ago. I think it was on a cracked sidewalks podcast. Henry Ellenson was the best and worst thing to happen to Wojo. On the plus side, he is a major talent, will be in the NBA soon, and was a major recruiting coup. On the negative, it artificially accelerated everyone's expectations for this team. I think most of us were reserved to have another down rebuilding year. When Henry signed we thought "We got a burger boy! Anything less than a sweet 16 is a failure!" Without realizing that the rest of the roster is still incomplete.

Agree completely with that. If Henry goes to say MSU and Steve sticks around, we're probably a few games worse than we are now, but people may actually be happier with the results.

[keefe]

We've got some soft players. 

I understand Louisville has a novel program for eliminating softness in players.

[bilsu]

There seems to be a disconnect somewhere.  We were told that Wojo emphasized the rebounding disparity from the last SH game in preparing for this one.  Either the team doesn't listen, isn't capable of doing what needs to be done, or the staff that is capable of recognizing the problems are unable to teach how to correct the problem. 
I'm leaning towards "isn't capable."

In the second half Ellenson lost two rebounds right under the basket. One turned into a three for Seton Hall and the other two points. As good of a rebounder as Ellenson is he still is not a rebounder through contact. He is still learning to deal with the physicalness of college basketball. You can also see it on his drives as he usually misses when he is met with minor contact on his drives.

[bilsu]

Also I think some of the problem will go away next year when Cheatham has a year under his belt. I like Cheatham a lot. but he is telegraphing everything he does. The other teams know it.  Never looks to pass and as such is a turnover machine. I think he will be more secure in his position next year and thus be a more effective team player. Right now he has a classic freshman attitude that he has to do it all himself. Needs to let the game come to him more. When that happens  we will be able to take advantage of our team quickness more which will offset the toughness issue .

I think this somewhat falls on the coach. Cheatnam is a good three point shooter, but he has been taught to drive to the basket whenever possible. The trouble is that with today's scouting the other team knows that is what he is going to do. Wojo needs to have him shoot more from the outside to stop the defense from collapsing inside.

[bilsu]

I agree with this.  He has a high IQ - which to me, means he understands the game very well for a freshman.  This doesn't mean he makes the right decision all the time, but it leads me to believe he will be coachable, and will make big strides in his career.

All a basketball IQ really means is that you can play the way the coach wants you to. Anim came in the game last night and immediately threw up a three and he was done for the night. That is a low basketball IQ. Cheatnam drives because that is Wojo's philosophy. Cheatnam has a very good three point shot and would be extremely effective at Notre Dame where they run their three point shooters off of picks.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Win any day, ai na?  Next few games a tough stretch.  The melt down on Scoop will be a Wojo Fondue.

[brewcity77]

Win any day, ai na?  Next few games a tough stretch.  The melt down on Scoop will be a Wojo Fondue.

I don't see any way we beat Xavier, but I actually like how we match up in the four after that. Providence may be without Bentil, Creighton is good but I think we match up okay with them, and I'll be very disappointed if DePaul sweeps us. Granted, we could lose all four of those and it would be a meltdown here, but I expect we'll win 2-3 of those.

[Marcus92]

Despite his recent struggles, Sandy is definitely a better player than he was last season. Duane, Luke and JJJ are all improved as well.

Sandy's strength right now is defense. Can guard multiple positions, has active hands and he's a solid rebounder for the 2-3 spot. In most lineups, he's probably the fourth or fifth option on offense. Hasn't shown much ability to drive from the perimeter, but he's got a nice shot from outside.

Overall, I've been pleasantly surprised at how good the defense has been with this team. That's rare for young players. If you blame the coaches for not developing the offense, they deserve some credit for getting these guys to play pretty tough D.

[WarriorFan]

Player development is a multi-year task.  For those of you on the "Wojo isn't developing guys" bandwagon, look at how much better Matt Heldt is vs. the summer games.  Yes, it's limited minutes, but a massive improvement in his physique and his capability.  JJJ's shot is fixed.  Buzz never tried, but now it's a technically correct shot and he's a good threat to shoot or drive.  Luke's improvements seem to be injury/recovery related, but I look for more from him as he gets time to build muscle. 

My only criticism of Wojo is that he brought ACC players into the Big East.  I'm sure he's already figured this out, but it can't be fixed mid-season!

[brewcity77]

Player development is a multi-year task.  For those of you on the "Wojo isn't developing guys" bandwagon, look at how much better Matt Heldt is vs. the summer games.  Yes, it's limited minutes, but a massive improvement in his physique and his capability.  JJJ's shot is fixed.  Buzz never tried, but now it's a technically correct shot and he's a good threat to shoot or drive.  Luke's improvements seem to be injury/recovery related, but I look for more from him as he gets time to build muscle. 

My only criticism of Wojo is that he brought ACC players into the Big East.  I'm sure he's already figured this out, but it can't be fixed mid-season!

To Buzz's credit, he only had JJ for his freshman year. Remember how broken Vander's shot was and how much it improved by his junior year. No reason to think Buzz couldn't have helped JJ improve as well.

Well, aside for the whole JJ was going to transfer if Buzz stayed rumor, but since JJ is rumored to transfer every 2-3 months (and thank god he hasn't) I have no idea how much validity that has.

[MU82]

Me spinning it? LOL. You're the spinmeister. The idea that MU fans were disappointed at any time in Al's first two years is true only in your imagination. Freshman weren't eligible when Al started coaching so in his first year he was stuck with nothing but the dumpster fire Ed Hickey left behind (a 6-21 team). So the first year was a total mulligan while we waited for Al's first recruiting class to become eligible - but even with that, there was improvement (to 8-18). In his second year (with that first recruiting class eligible) we jumped to 14-12 - and every MU fan knew that the best player on the campus (George Thompson) was eligible the next year. Marquette fan's attitudes back then were curiosity that became unbridled optimism by year two). I was one of those unbridled optimists. Maybe you've seen something in Wojo's first two years that you think warrants unbridled optimism. I haven't.

So you're still wrong on Al and Wooden in spite of your spinning. And if you can name 10 coaches who struggled early but eventually succeeded, I can probably name 100 who struggled early and failed. I like Wojo and hope for the best - but any MU fan who isn't a little concerned isn't paying attention.

I didn't say MU folks were disappointed with Al way back when, so don't put words in my mouth. I'm saying that if Al had the start he did in today's sporting climate, there would have been dopes starting "Al's leash" threads on the interwebs.

And yes, I named coaches who struggled early before eventually succeeding. And if they coached in today's win-immediately atmosphere, they either would have been fired or would have strongly come under fire from the fan base. Very possibly, Coach K wouldn't have gotten a chance to win 200 games, let alone 1,000.

Maybe I didn't name "100 who struggled early and failed" because I'm generally a positive, optimistic person.

One thing I know I am is realistic. So even if I hated the job Wojo is doing -- I don't; I still have high hopes for him -- I'm pragmatic enough to know it doesn't matter. He ain't going anywhere for several more years.

I love the Warriors, but it's only sports. I want us to win, but I simply refuse to get my undies in a bundle because a bunch of 19-year-olds might not meet somebody's expectations.

[brandx]

This thread reminds me of a point someone else made a while ago. I think it was on a cracked sidewalks podcast. Henry Ellenson was the best and worst thing to happen to Wojo. On the plus side, he is a major talent, will be in the NBA soon, and was a major recruiting coup. On the negative, it artificially accelerated everyone's expectations for this team. I think most of us were reserved to have another down rebuilding year. When Henry signed we thought "We got a burger boy! Anything less than a sweet 16 is a failure!" Without realizing that the rest of the roster is still incomplete.

Duke & Kentucky got LOTS of burger boys and how is that working out?

[bilsu]

I think the current starting team of Wilson, JJJ, Cheatnam, Fischer & Henry is the right lineup. Hindsight is easy. I think at the start he should of went Wilson, JJJ, Cohen, Fischer and Henry. You need to lean on your most experienced players, because you never know what you are going to get with freshmen. Wojo made the decision to developer Haanif and Carter instead of putting the best starting lineup out there. He was able to get away with this in the non conference schedule, because it was loaded with bunnies. It probably has benefited Carter and Cheatnam, but I do not think our starting group is as strong as it could be now, if they were playing together from day one. Is this a coaching error? I do not know, but I do think in hindsight it was not the best way to go.

[GGGG]

I don't think the starting line of a few games ago was a problem in a game that was lost in the last ten minutes.

[bilsu]

I don't think the starting line of a few games ago was a problem in a game that was lost in the last ten minutes.

It is hard to say what effect it has and of course we will never know. You have the starting lineup from the beginning of the season and you can coach to that lineup. How they are going to run the offense and how they are going to play defense. It is a team game so the combinations matter. Instead of having to teach the young players the basics, Wojo could have concentrated on maximizing JJJ and Wilson. I do think Wilson spent the first half of the season in a funk. I am not sure, if that was because he was not starting or if he was not starting because he was in a funk.