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Author Topic: Seton Hall thoughts.  (Read 16994 times)

RJax55

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Re: Seton Hall thoughts.
« Reply #25 on: February 03, 2016, 10:08:44 PM »
> MU is an 8th place team. Its ceiling is 6th.
> The turnovers = rerun.  No improvement at all
> JJJ tried to lead MU back
> Henry another double double but Delgado's better.
> Du and Sandy shrinking violets.
> This team won't compete until Big East bodies arrive

Agree with this.

Also, in this league, can you afford to play Duane off the ball? Buzz recruited him to be MU's point. But, since day one, Wojo has never seen him in that spot. His lack of size and physicality is really noticeable out on the wing.

dgies9156

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Re: Seton Hall thoughts.
« Reply #26 on: February 03, 2016, 10:10:13 PM »
Another game night, another a*s kicking.

When will it end?

When will "We are Marquette" mean we do the a*s kicking.

I'm old. My heart and my soul can only take so much.

St. Jude, Pray for us.

Holy Mother of Make it Stop, Pray for us.

St. Al of Brookfield, Pray for Us.

muhoops1

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Re: Seton Hall thoughts.
« Reply #27 on: February 03, 2016, 10:12:18 PM »
Did we over estimate on guys like Sandy and Swaggy Du? They played against low level competition in WI.  Are they capable of excelling in the Big East?

We lose Henry while gaining a transfer and a kid from Point next year.  Do we improve appreciably?

mug644

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Re: Seton Hall thoughts.
« Reply #28 on: February 03, 2016, 10:13:31 PM »
I was frustrated with some of the substitutions. One time in particular in the 2nd half, I recall MU finally getting the ball inside to Fischer who made a good move for a jump hook (he hit numerous, but also missed numerous tonight, but it was there for him). Very soon after, he's pulled for, I think, Sandy. Yikes.

It just felt like the hot hand was pulled quickly tonight.

jesmu84

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Re: Seton Hall thoughts.
« Reply #29 on: February 03, 2016, 10:18:23 PM »
Did we over estimate on guys like Sandy and Swaggy Du? They played against low level competition in WI. Are they capable of excelling in the Big East?

We lose Henry while gaining a transfer and a kid from Point next year.  Do we improve appreciably?

I don't think that has anything to do with it. Wisconsin has been very good with kids from WI. And other high level WI recruits have excelled in high D1 ball

WarriorPride68

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Re: Seton Hall thoughts.
« Reply #30 on: February 03, 2016, 10:22:31 PM »
Did we over estimate on guys like Sandy and Swaggy Du? They played against low level competition in WI.  Are they capable of excelling in the Big East?

We lose Henry while gaining a transfer and a kid from Point next year.  Do we improve appreciably?

Perhaps on Sandy, I wouldn't say that with Duane. Sandy played at Seymour & played on a small AAU team (jets? I can't remember) until his final AAU Spring going into senior year with PGE.

He needed a RS badly. Just couldn't afford one with last year's squad

bilsu

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Re: Seton Hall thoughts.
« Reply #31 on: February 03, 2016, 10:23:00 PM »
I would give the coaching a failing grade this year. Haven't cleaned up the turnovers halfway into the conference season. Woo will get a redo next year and we'll see, have to hope that he develops as a coach along with the young guys on the team.
I have been as hard on Wojo as anybody, but at this point I do not think the team's play is his fault. Ellenson and Fischer are very good players, but against certain teams you can see that they do not have the quickness and athleticism of some of the players they are facing. Throw in the factor that the team is very young, you just have to accept that they are going to make mistakes.

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Seton Hall thoughts.
« Reply #32 on: February 03, 2016, 10:31:05 PM »
Perhaps on Sandy, I wouldn't say that with Duane. Sandy played at Seymour & played on a small AAU team (jets? I can't remember) until his final AAU Spring going into senior year with PGE.

He needed a RS badly. Just couldn't afford one with last year's squad

Sandy needs to add another 20 pounds and a red shirt, but plays as efficiently as Steve Novak against the cupcakes.  The skill is there, he is just physically overmatched. Duane was All Freshman Big East player, a decimal point away from being the leading frosh scorer.  Wojo has both playing out of position (along with Haanif).  Roster composition is misaligned due to program turnover.

GoldenWarrior11

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Re: Seton Hall thoughts.
« Reply #33 on: February 03, 2016, 10:32:21 PM »
I'm at a loss on how Marquette can have two near-seven footers in the lineup a majority of the time and manage to continually get out-rebounded by a smaller team.  The team has very little energy/drive/desire - they get intimidated and out-hustled routinely against smaller opponents. 

And, I'm sorry, but watching Henry out on the perimeter a majority of the time is a waste of his talent.  Statistically, Henry is not an outside shooter at this level.  He may have relied on that in high school, but in college and probably the NBA, he should stick near the basket and elbows.  He should rarely be outside the arc on offense.

I'm very proud of JJJ - he's clearly turned a corner and is determined.  He will be the leader next year. 

NavinRJohnson

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Re: Seton Hall thoughts.
« Reply #34 on: February 03, 2016, 10:34:11 PM »
That's the issue. We really suck at positioning. Even Henry who averages 10 a game is a poor technical rebounder. He's just tall, long and naturally gifted so he gets a good amount.

Been complaining about this from the start of the season and it just has not gotten better. I don't necessarily see a lack of "want to" but there is definitely a lack of "how to." As a team, their rebounding technique is awful. Hasn't improved at all in 3 months. I feel like I'm watching some of the grade school teams I've coached every time get sucked too far under the basket and the ball bounces right over them to the other team.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Seton Hall thoughts.
« Reply #35 on: February 03, 2016, 10:34:27 PM »
Super young = super inconsistent.   That's usually the recipe.  No surprises from me tonight.

Lennys Tap

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Re: Seton Hall thoughts.
« Reply #36 on: February 03, 2016, 10:37:19 PM »
Men vs boys. Again.

WarriorPride68

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Re: Seton Hall thoughts.
« Reply #37 on: February 03, 2016, 10:41:40 PM »
Sagarin has MU favored in 1 game the rest of the way, and barely (under 1 pt) favorite @ DePaul

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Seton Hall thoughts.
« Reply #38 on: February 03, 2016, 10:45:45 PM »
Super young = super inconsistent.   That's usually the recipe.  No surprises from me tonight.

Actually they have been terribly consistent.  Pretty good on defense.  Consistently bad on offense. The high turnover rate, win or lose, without improvement, coupled with the rebonding effort just gives back way too many possessions.  There has been nothing inconsistent about those stats.  I am waiting for them to turn the corner, especially on turnovers.  The tempo needs to be a lot slower with the number of givebacks.

amen426

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Re: Seton Hall thoughts.
« Reply #39 on: February 03, 2016, 10:52:29 PM »
Putting aside all the negatives for a second..

I'm so glad that JJJ is still wearing a Marquette Uniform this year. After 2+ years of negative comments on this board, and transfer rumors -- its rewarding to see a guy really develop, find his role, and see him finally "get it". 

He certainly still makes mistakes -- but he is playing at a different speed then the rest of our squad right now.

Cohen will be fine, but he needs to know his limitations. He needs to be our "Bruce Bowen". Sit in the corner on offense and shoot 40% on corner 3's. Then exert all your energy on defense, leaving Haanif's energy for the offensive end.

Cohen hit 6 three's vs. San Jose State. He's hit TWO 3 PTers in Conference play so far (and only 6 TOTAL since that San Jose St game). I still think it'll turn on for him. Just like Jake Thomas. Thomas was a great practice shooter, but couldn't hit during that first year he played. Then eventually, he started hitting - and the confidence came. Right now, Sandy has no confidence.

BTW - the argument that this team needs to play "tougher" needs to be retired. That has been beaten to death. This team is not built to be physical. They are playing with heart. We just need to play SMARTER than the Seton Halls of the conference. With the youth on this squad playing significant minutes, it just hasn't happened.

21rooster

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Re: Seton Hall thoughts.
« Reply #40 on: February 03, 2016, 10:54:32 PM »
Two turning points: Henry taking the fast-break foul and subbing Sandy for Luke.  A star player's second foul is much more important than two points.  Sandy should only play when a guard needs a breather.  I'll take Heldt or Wally over Sandy when a big leaves the floor.  You could see sandy's charge from a mile away, and it killed the momentum.  Unless Luke was begging for a breather, there is no reason for him to leave the court in the middle of that run.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Seton Hall thoughts.
« Reply #41 on: February 03, 2016, 11:25:26 PM »
Actually they have been terribly consistent.  Pretty good on defense.  Consistently bad on offense. The high turnover rate, win or lose, without improvement, coupled with the rebonding effort just gives back way too many possessions.  There has been nothing inconsistent about those stats.  I am waiting for them to turn the corner, especially on turnovers.  The tempo needs to be a lot slower with the number of givebacks.

To each their own.  One game I see pretty good defense, so-so offense.  Next game both pretty good.  Next game defense not so great.  Same goes for individuals.  Just my two cents.  Consistency, in my view, comes down to being able to consistently repeat the good things...to be consistently good, or consistently productive.  We might be that way for 30 minutes, or for a half, but tough to do it for the game.   Can't wait until these guys have another Summer and camp under their belt, another off season of strength, more maturity, less panic, more experience.

MU82

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Re: Seton Hall thoughts.
« Reply #42 on: February 03, 2016, 11:28:00 PM »
Competed for 30 minutes then gave up a bad offensive rebound that resulted in a 3, followed by an open 3, followed by a wide open 3.  From down 3 to down 12 in a heartbeat.

Absolutely the key stretch of the game. When the second 3 splashed down, I was quite sure we were toast.

It was obvious all night which team was better. Frankly, I was impressed that we hung around as long as we did.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Seton Hall thoughts.
« Reply #43 on: February 03, 2016, 11:34:34 PM »
To each their own.  One game I see pretty good defense, so-so offense.  Next game both pretty good.  Next game defense not so great.  Same goes for individuals.  Just my two cents.  Consistency, in my view, comes down to being able to consistently repeat the good things...to be consistently good, or consistently productive.  We might be that way for 30 minutes, or for a half, but tough to do it for the game.   Can't wait until these guys have another Summer and camp under their belt, another off season of strength, more maturity, less panic, more experience.

I use Pomeroy where MU is 5th after tonight (4th before) on defense.  They are ninth in offense with only two games over 100 (average) in conference.  They have been consistently poor, caused primarily by turnovers and rebounding on a constant basis, with ups and down on eFG%. Sometimes they can shoot themselves out of the lost possessions.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Seton Hall thoughts.
« Reply #44 on: February 03, 2016, 11:40:01 PM »
Competed for 30 minutes then gave up a bad offensive rebound that resulted in a 3, followed by an open 3, followed by a wide open 3.  From down 3 to down 12 in a heartbeat.

This team can't limit its turnovers, can't rebound and can't defend consistently.  A recipe for disaster.

Yup.  Turned to my son when they had those two shots, missed them both (good defense by us), but couldn't get the board and then they kicked it out for the 3.  Then another 3.  Those were pretty big.

MUfan12

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Re: Seton Hall thoughts.
« Reply #45 on: February 03, 2016, 11:55:00 PM »
-
« Last Edit: February 04, 2016, 08:36:14 AM by MUfan12 »

UticaBusBarn

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Re: Seton Hall thoughts.
« Reply #46 on: February 04, 2016, 03:12:22 AM »

Geez, I thought the Warriors were terribly consistent. They scored exactly 31 points in each half. Now that's consistency.

rocket surgeon

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Re: Seton Hall thoughts.
« Reply #47 on: February 04, 2016, 05:37:49 AM »
Yup.  Turned to my son when they had those two shots, missed them both (good defense by us), but couldn't get the board and then they kicked it out for the 3.  Then another 3.  Those were pretty big.

that was the KEY possession.  they gave seton hall 3 shots.  instead of it being a tie game or 3 pt lead, it became 6 then 9 in about 40 seconds. the last one was a bomb.  despite HE pooping out a 10 and 10, he really struggled.  fischer tried to keep us in it, but the refs let it get pretty physical.  i agree with a previous poster-cohen is really struggling-if he's not in foul trouble, his play is sporadic.  then he comes in and throws up bricks.  he hasn't given himself a chance to get into a rhythm because he too busy running from the bench to scorers table back to the bench.

we've got 2 seven footers and seton hall kills us on the boards-especially the O-boards.  this is where burton would have helped us out-wide/strong body.  saw him play pretty well in a loss to west virginia.  btw, did anyone else see huggy bears pony tail wrapped up tight into a little ball?  wtf??  he looked like a sumo wrestler sans the diaper-oh no, bad bad visual ouch 
« Last Edit: February 04, 2016, 05:41:25 AM by rocket surgeon »
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brewcity77

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Re: Seton Hall thoughts.
« Reply #48 on: February 04, 2016, 06:27:32 AM »
That sequence definitely ended the game. We had fought so hard to get back in it, then an eyeblink later it was back to 9.

Once again it's rebounding that kills us. Despite having one of the best rebounders in the game, we don't get near enough from the rest of the team. 40.6% of SHU's misses were pulled down by the Pirates. That's just plain bad.
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tower912

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Re: Seton Hall thoughts.
« Reply #49 on: February 04, 2016, 06:35:15 AM »
Our whole team is skinny.  Luke and Henry are 7 foot, but they are not muscular.   After those two, every other player is short for their position and skinny.  When it comes to rebounding, bet on the bigger, stronger, faster team.   This needs to be addressed in recruiting philosophy and the weight room.  Wojo needs to break out of the Duke paradigm for recruits and adopt a big east philosophy.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2016, 07:34:33 AM by tower912 »
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