Carter the PG

[keefe]

Keefe


I love you, but have to question you on the Mandy comparison. Mandy could NOT dribble a lick back in the day. That said, his defense and ability to score made up for it. I love Mandy and have to say he was the WORST dribbler of the ball I ever saw play PG.

Goose

You are correct, sir. I was referring to Carter's inability to switch hands.

I think Carter will be a solid PG. We are not yet seeing the final product.

I have often mentioned the great PGs who have gone through our program. Mandy is in that second tier, behind Worthen, Doc, Lucky Lloyd, the Dream...

But, man, wouldn't it be great to have an 18 yo Mandy Johnson on the team?

[Lennys Tap]

Traci and Derrick are actually a pretty good comp. Solid defenders (Traci quicker, Derrick more physical), challenged offensively (both bad shooters - Derrick worse, Traci quicker and more creative, Derrick more solid with the ball). Derrick was a good  back up point guard. Traci may improve greatly, but right now that would also be my best guess for him.

[brandx]

No doubt he should be getting minutes at PG but is not ready for this level of competition to be the main guy. The other three options for PG make us better team especially because all three can score as well. No great PG and I hope Wojo just goes with the hot hand on a given night and not getting married to any one guy. None are a long term solution at PG if the program wants to be a top 20 team.

I agree Traci shouldn't be getting 30 minutes a game. I'd like to see him get around 20 per game in the future. Haanif is a very nice offensive player, but has no idea how to play PG. When at PG, he basically stops 40 feet from the basket and passes to the wing (which is the position where he is a very good player).

It's not quite as big of a problem as it could be because HE comes out high to get the ball a lot. But Traci has to put an end to the unforced turnovers. He had at least three last night.

[bilsu]

Traci and Derrick are actually a pretty good comp. Solid defenders (Traci quicker, Derrick more physical), challenged offensively (both bad shooters - Derrick worse, Traci quicker and more creative, Derrick more solid with the ball). Derrick was a good  back up point guard. Traci may improve greatly, but right now that would also be my best guess for him.

It depends on when you are comparing. Derrick was a worse shooter as a freshmen than Carter. He also could not play without fouling when he was a freshmen. As a senior Derrick was much better than he was as a freshmen. However, he still could not shoot free throws. Carter has a much higher ceiling, but MU would be better if Derrick was still here.

[willie warrior]

Keefe


I love you, but have to question you on the Mandy comparison. Mandy could NOT dribble a lick back in the day. That said, his defense and ability to score made up for it. I love Mandy and have to say he was the WORST dribbler of the ball I ever saw play PG.

Not that bad, Goose. He was adequate. His defense was awesome. One of the best at stealing the ball from a dribble that MU ever had. Agreed that he was no Dick Nixon when it came to dribbling.

[HoopsterBC]

Traci, needs lots of work for sure.  He can get in the lane but does not know what to do once he is there.  To bad, that as MU follower watching Derrick for a few years
and now Traci, we have 2 point guards in a point guard game,  that can not score or finish at the hoop.  I am hoping Marcus Howard can see that playing time is available right now even with Traci back next year, take the challenge.  It would not be to hard to beat him out.  Not often do you see guards getting pick pocketed out
front on the first play on the game, but it has happened twice this year, Cheatham against Iowa and now Traci.

Another point about MU, again another year a team that can not hit three's.   Cohen can but his release is as slow as molasses coming out of a jar, Traci, not, Cheatham
can but does not take it, Ellenson, not and Fisher can only shot from a foot or two, Pat Smith clone.  Can not wait till next year with Rowsey and maybe Hauser, I say maybe because he is as skinny as Cohen was, needs a year to put on some muscle to play small forward.  Not quick enough to play 2 guard.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Traci is much more capable offensively than Derrick ever was. His shot will come around. Let me put it this way, I would much rather have a true Freshman Traci start than a freshman, sophomore or even Junior year Derrick, and it's not even close.

[barfolomew]

Another point about MU, again another year a team that can not hit three's.   

We seem to be the Chicago Cubs of 3-pt shooting.
Wait 'til next year!

[brandx]

We seem to be the Chicago Cubs of 3-pt shooting.
Wait 'til next year!

Hopefully we won't have to keep saying it for over 100 years.

[Herman Cain]

Traci will season over time into a good PG. He is a conventional freshman and I am willing to give him plenty of room to grow. I would prefer a few less minutes and more for Duane, but that is a minor issue.  Additionally,he is making a reasonable free throw percentage .733 which will come in handy down the road. The thing that drove me nuts about Derrick was the sub 50 percent free throws.  With Traci there is a true penalty if you foul him. Eventually he will learn to draw fouls.

 I see Traci getting incrementally better each year.

[Goose]

Keefe

Agree on Mandy being second tier in MU PG history. He was very solid and would take another Mandy big time over the past several years.

[GB Warrior]

Right now, he is Derrick Wilson. He plays good (not Derek level, though) defense, knows better than to shoot, and appears to be a good leader. He's also a freshman, so that as a floor is not bad. He is not a high impact player, but he plays valuable minutes to start the game. More fundamentally, he keeps Duane - by all definitions a volume shooter - in check, as our offense can get into a rhythm before he enters the game. I will say that it is frustrating watching a defense sag off of anyone that much, but our other core players are good enough to compensate on most nights.

Trust the process.

[GGGG]

I like Traci. I think people are being a little too hard on a freshman who missed some time due to injury. A lot of his mistakes are due to going too fast or forcing the action. I'm ok with that.

[Loose Cannon]

I like Traci. I think people are being a little too hard on a freshman who missed some time due to injury. A lot of his mistakes are due to going too fast or forcing the action. I'm ok with that.

Absolutely agree.   When the game slows down for him, I believe his point guard skills as well as his scoring  will show.

[MUfan12]

I like Traci. I think people are being a little too hard on a freshman who missed some time due to injury. A lot of his mistakes are due to going too fast or forcing the action. I'm ok with that.

Yep. I'll take mistakes out of aggression over a guy playing too tentative any day.

[Dawson Rental]

We watched this movie last year...

                                                ....and it didn't get rave reviews, then either.


The difference: Traci is a frosh, Derrick was a senior, so there's hope because the best thing about freshmen is....

[Silkk the Shaka]

Yep. I'll take mistakes out of aggression over a guy playing too tentative any day.

Yes! I was reading an article  about rookie PG's in the NBA. Turns out, a good indicator of future success is a HIGH turnover rate. They're just getting used to the speed and length of the game. But once it slows down for them, they have the mentality needed to run the show. Carter has a point brain. That should be obvious to anyone that has watched him this season. When it comes together for him, he's going to be really good.

[CTWarrior]

                                                ....and it didn't get rave reviews, then either.


The difference: Traci is a frosh, Derrick was a senior, so there's hope because the best thing about freshmen is....

Biggest difference between the two offensively is that Carter has a much more aggressive, attacking mentality while Derrick was mostly content to just not turn the ball over.  Sometimes that is good and sometimes it isn't, but in the long run I think it will be good and Carter will be much the superior player.

[GGGG]

Traci Carter is averaging a turnover about every ten minutes of game time.  Dominic James averaged one every 11.5 minutes or so as a freshman.  Obviously James was a better scorer, but Traci gets an assist every five minutes while DJ got one every six. 

[bilsu]

Traci Carter is averaging a turnover about every ten minutes of game time.  Dominic James averaged one every 11.5 minutes or so as a freshman.  Obviously James was a better scorer, but Traci gets an assist every five minutes while DJ got one every six.

I do not think the assists are comparable. Wojo wants the team to pass the ball and looks for a high assist to basket ratio. Crean wants his guard to dribble the ball and probe the defense with drives, so a score is less likely to come with an assist.

[MU82]

Keep recruitin', baby!

It's never bad to "over-recruit," and that goes double for the PG position.

Best-case scenario in landing a stud PG: Traci becomes a good backup.

Worst-case scenario in landing a stud PG: Traci leaves ... but that's OK because we have a stud PG!

[macman320]

He can't dribble with his left hand when pressured. He can't drive with his left.  He can't keep his hands off the defender, his fouls are always 25 feet from the basket. he can't shoot. He has a lot of work to do. It's been way to long since MU has had a dynamic PG.

Remember when Junior took us to 2 sweet 16's and an elite 8?

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

He can't dribble with his left hand when pressured. He can't drive with his left.  He can't keep his hands off the defender, his fouls are always 25 feet from the basket. he can't shoot. He has a lot of work to do. It's been way to long since MU has had a dynamic PG.

RELAX. And I disagree with him handling pressure with his left hand. He's better than anyone else we have on the team for that. Also, I will put money down with anybody that his shot will come around.

[brewcity77]

Remember when Junior took us to 2 sweet 16's and an elite 8?

I remember Junior being on teams that went to the Sweet 16 twice and the Elite 8. I don't remember him taking us there. I remember a shooting guard, Dwight Buycks, starting ahead of him at the point on the first Sweet 16 team, I remember Jae Crowder and DJO taking us to the second Sweet 16, and I remember Vander Blue and Jamil Wilson taking us to the Elite 8.

Junior was there, but he wasn't the driving force on any of those teams. He was a below average starter and never close to dynamic. Maurice Acker was closer to being a dynamic PG than Junior. Hell...Junior mustered 3 assists in our 3 wins in the 2013 tournament. I wonder if a starting PG ever provided less to get to the Elite 8.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

I remember Junior being on teams that went to the Sweet 16 twice and the Elite 8. I don't remember him taking us there. I remember a shooting guard, Dwight Buycks, starting ahead of him at the point on the first Sweet 16 team, I remember Jae Crowder and DJO taking us to the second Sweet 16, and I remember Vander Blue and Jamil Wilson taking us to the Elite 8.

Junior was there, but he wasn't the driving force on any of those teams. He was a below average starter and never close to dynamic. Maurice Acker was closer to being a dynamic PG than Junior. Hell...Junior mustered 3 assists in our 3 wins in the 2013 tournament. I wonder if a starting PG ever provided less to get to the Elite 8.

Here's the thing though. Junior was just enough of a scoring threat to where defenses couldn't show help with his defender. Also opened things up for Ox. Derrick was such a non factor on offense that his man would always show help on Ox or Fischer. It was brutal. The kid couldn't score.