collapse

* Stud of Colorado Game

Tyler Kolek

21 points, 5 rebounds,
11 assists, 1 steal,
40 minutes

2023-24 Season SoG Tally
Kolek11
Ighodaro6
Jones, K.6
Mitchell2
Jones, S.1
Joplin1

'22-23
'21-22 * '20-21 * '19-20
'18-19 * '17-18 * '16-17
'15-16 * '14-15 * '13-14
'12-13 * '11-12 * '10-11

* Big East Standings

* Recent Posts

Dallas bars tonite by BrewCity83
[Today at 01:34:36 PM]


2024 Transfer Portal by Stretchdeltsig
[Today at 01:30:29 PM]


Chicago bars for Fri game by Galway Eagle
[Today at 01:20:04 PM]


2024 NCAA Tournament Thread by TAMU, Knower of Ball
[Today at 01:04:10 PM]


2024 Coaching Carousel by Uncle Rico
[Today at 01:03:27 PM]


Tyler Kolek's "legacy" by Newsdreams
[Today at 12:37:27 PM]


NC State by Sturgeon General Warrior
[Today at 12:34:46 PM]

Please Register - It's FREE!

The absolute only thing required for this FREE registration is a valid e-mail address.  We keep all your information confidential and will NEVER give or sell it to anyone else.
Login to get rid of this box (and ads) , or register NOW!

* Next up: NC State

Marquette
81
Marquette vs

NC State

Date/Time: Mar 29, 2024, 6:09 pm
TV: CBS
Schedule for 2023-24
Colorado
77

Author Topic: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it  (Read 17073 times)

humanlung

  • Team Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 336
Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #100 on: November 24, 2015, 01:02:58 PM »
My bigger point is that if Wojo is more concerned with teaching life lessons than fundamental basketball he's in the wrong line of work.

Other than our guys hitting some shots that haven't fallen to date, the fundamental basketball aspects of our team were just as sorely lacking last night as they have been in the first 3 games.

If you believe this, then you have clearly not paid attention to the legacy of Al McGuire.  Or John Wooden.  Or Dean Smith.  The list goes on. I frankly shudder at the thought of coaches abandoning teaching young men life lessons so they can instead focus on what it takes to set a good pick.

Marquette_g

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 678
  • Gonna Get Some Cold Cuts Today
Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #101 on: November 24, 2015, 01:16:56 PM »
If you believe this, then you have clearly not paid attention to the legacy of Al McGuire.  Or John Wooden.  Or Dean Smith.  The list goes on. I frankly shudder at the thought of coaches abandoning teaching young men life lessons so they can instead focus on what it takes to set a good pick.

...the last of whom coached in 1997.  The importance of winning and losing, based on the dollars at stake is much different.  That doesn't mean that coaches aren't trying to help players grow, but let's pump the brakes a little.

Life lessons are great, but this was nothing more than motivational technique to get them to focus.  I contend that it was cheesy and stupid, others seem to feel the other way, but I'm not sure that we should extrapolate this to anything more.

CTWarrior

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4072
Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #102 on: November 24, 2015, 01:19:22 PM »
...the last of whom coached in 1997.  The importance of winning and losing, based on the dollars at stake is much different.  That doesn't mean that coaches aren't trying to help players grow, but let's pump the brakes a little.

Life lessons are great, but this was nothing more than motivational technique to get them to focus.  I contend that it was cheesy and stupid, others seem to feel the other way, but I'm not sure that we should extrapolate this to anything more.

There is a quid pro quo in college sports.  We don't pay these kids with cash.  The deal is you come to our school and help fill our arenas and we will educate you.  Coaches go to these kids' mothers and promise that they will help them become men.  If we are not going to perform that function than we should just do away with college sports and just have minor leagues.  I know that is corny, old-fashioned wishful thinking but I like to think that at Marquette we pay more than lip service to that ideal. 

Now you can make a legitimate argument around whether or not taking away a practice uniform somehow helps to make men, but I don't think that piece of our commitment should be pooh-poohed as unimportant as long as we're winning games.
Calvin:  I'm a genius.  But I'm a misunderstood genius. 
Hobbes:  What's misunderstood about you?
Calvin:  Nobody thinks I'm a genius.

rocket surgeon

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3652
  • NA of course
Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #103 on: November 24, 2015, 01:19:59 PM »
This has to be one of the dumbest comments I've ever read.  Most people change tremendously during college. Maybe you arrived at MU wearing a sweater vest and ready for the professional world but for the majority of people they're still learning and developing.  I'm not saying that Wojo is accountable to do the life lessons things that Buzz did about a bottle with sand and rocks etc. But he is still supposed to impart his wisdom and teach when he can.

right on bags-cheezus, most college students are still wet behind the ears and don't know schmit till they've been fired a couple times, pulled over for dui, divorced, have a kid or two, etc etc
don't...don't don't don't don't

mattyv1908

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 808
Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #104 on: November 24, 2015, 01:24:34 PM »
If you believe this, then you have clearly not paid attention to the legacy of Al McGuire.  Or John Wooden.  Or Dean Smith.  The list goes on. I frankly shudder at the thought of coaches abandoning teaching young men life lessons so they can instead focus on what it takes to set a good pick.

It's not that I don't want life lessons being taught, I just think it's a secondary responsibility at this level.  These are not 8th graders in which 99% of them will never play D1 basketball.  College basketball is either the first or second largest revenue source for many universities.  It is a product that allows other endeavors to be paid for, including the majority of other sports that lose money for the same university.

We're speculating that Al McGuire, John Wooden, Vince Lombardi or any other legendary coach would have the same type of success today.  Like it or not, our times and culture have changed for better or worse.

The very concept of Henry Ellenson being recruited to MU is in and of itself a testament to what I'm trying to say.  If being a student athlete is paramount than recruiting a player who's playing in college solely to comply with the NBA's requirements is in direct opposition to what a student athlete embodies.  Face it, we're all hypocrites.  Many hate Kentucky yet would love it were Wojo to nail down their recruiting class next year.
Shut this board down at the opening tip.  If they win, open it back up.  If they lose, keep it shut it down until the next morning.  - Sultan of Slurpery

Marquette_g

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 678
  • Gonna Get Some Cold Cuts Today
Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #105 on: November 24, 2015, 01:26:23 PM »
There is a quid pro quo in college sports.  We don't pay these kids with cash.  The deal is you come to our school and help fill our arenas and we will educate you.  Coaches go to these kids' mothers and promise that they will help them become men.  If we are not going to perform that function than we should just do away with college sports and just have minor leagues.  I know that is corny, old-fashioned wishful thinking but I like to think that at Marquette we pay more than lip service to that ideal. 

Now you can make a legitimate argument around whether or not taking away a practice uniform somehow helps to make men, but I don't think that piece of our commitment should be pooh-poohed as unimportant as long as we're winning games.

I agree with you, which is why I think the little gimmick of pulling the T-shirts (which I wouldn't consider a life lesson) and teaching kids the importance of respecting women are two different things.  I also do believe that the game has changed, and that references to what coaches were doing in the 80s isn't really relevant to how the game is now.

Well the Buzz regime certainly had the lip service part of that down, as for the teachings and lessons learned, that could be argued differently.

I think the stunt of pulling the practice gear was dumb and is likely being inflated to something more than what it was.  It may have helped, it might have meant nothing, but I tend to believe hitting more shots and executing better was unrelated to what material their practice shirts were made out of.




naginiF

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1452
  • 'and the riot be the rhyme of the unheard'
Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #106 on: November 24, 2015, 03:04:11 PM »
First "block" of the season. mattyV's logic makes me ashamed that he is a fellow mu alumni. Maybe the holiday season will take some negativity out of his life. Definitely reaching Ners territory.
Less than 36hrs after onepost identified the gap it's been fixed.  Impressive.
I'm disappointed in Scoop this season.  Banter is down, don't have a clear board goat established, and you've all dropped the ball on LSU's best alumna.
Because why wouldn't I post 3 pictures of Lindsey Pelas......

steff_mckee

  • Scholarship Player
  • **
  • Posts: 63
Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #107 on: November 24, 2015, 04:32:05 PM »
All the players should have been given a "safe space" after the Iowa game.  How dare Wojo engage in "shaming" the team....Lucky the person that sits next to you at Thanksgiving dinner Matty.

JakeBarnes

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 5512
Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #108 on: November 24, 2015, 04:50:43 PM »
All the players should have been given a "safe space" after the Iowa game.  How dare Wojo engage in "shaming" the team....Lucky the person that sits next to you at Thanksgiving dinner Matty.

You PC, bro?
Assume what I say should be in teal if it doesn't pass the smell test for you.


ChicosBailBonds

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22695
  • #AllInnocentLivesMatter
    • Cracked Sidewalks
Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #109 on: November 24, 2015, 08:09:01 PM »
Apparently there are many on this board that believe it was a huge factor.  The fact that they feel this way should have everyone questioning the value of their MU education.

Huge factor?  I don't know.  I just know coaches, like bosses, need to motivate their teams and usually coaches know more about their players and what presses their buttons than fans do.

Just my opinion.

naginiF

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1452
  • 'and the riot be the rhyme of the unheard'
Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #110 on: November 24, 2015, 09:42:56 PM »
Huge factor?  I don't know.  I just know coaches, like bosses, need to motivate their teams and usually coaches know more about their players and what presses their buttons than fans do.

Just my opinion.
and the opinion of anyone who has had any bit of success in the world.

MuMark

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4298
Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #111 on: November 24, 2015, 10:02:11 PM »
and the opinion of anyone who has had any bit of success in the world.

Plus 1

jpvegas

  • Registered User
  • Walk-On
  • *
  • Posts: 45
Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #112 on: November 24, 2015, 10:06:37 PM »
My favorite of all time was Abe Lemons when he was coaching at Oklahoma City.  They were playing in the NIT which was a big deal at the time.  They were trailing at halftime and he wasn't happy with the team's effort.  He kept his team out on the floor during the halftime and they scrimmaged, shirts vs skins.

Balrogs

  • Walk-On
  • *
  • Posts: 44
Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #113 on: November 24, 2015, 10:26:23 PM »
Thanks for the compliment.

Very few people have the ability to affect the bottom line of a company while playing an integral role in being the back stop in regards to compliance and regulations as an f&i manager.  If I can take a 200 car a month store and increase the dollar per car average in the f&i office 1000/unit that's a 2.4 million gross profit increase annually while implementing processes that insulate dealers from violations it's a hugely important service.

Scoff if you will, but considering 35-40% of state sales tax collected across the country comes directly from the purchases of vehicles, it's safe to say that dealer principles and their employees are the biggest contributors to the state programs that state sales taxes fund.

So when you enter a dealer, I hope you grade yourself at the 1000/unit increase immediately regardless of the shape you found it in.  That's the bar you are setting for Wojo.  No misfires, no issues, instant training of new staff who are perfect.  Better be instantaneous improvement overnight.  And even if there was an issue, you should get no credit for a turnaround because it wasn't right immediately at the start of your tenure.  So if you were only averaging 500/unit and then went to 1500/unit, you're still not getting the job done because you still may have some issues in your process.  Good grief...

And no, the customer is the biggest contributor of sales tax.  You've got little to do with it.

Cooby Snacks

  • Team Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 459
Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #114 on: November 24, 2015, 10:37:21 PM »
So when you enter a dealer, I hope you grade yourself at the 1000/unit increase immediately regardless of the shape you found it in.  That's the bar you are setting for Wojo.  No misfires, no issues, instant training of new staff who are perfect.  Better be instantaneous improvement overnight.  And even if there was an issue, you should get no credit for a turnaround because it wasn't right immediately at the start of your tenure.  So if you were only averaging 500/unit and then went to 1500/unit, you're still not getting the job done because you still may have some issues in your process.  Good grief...

And no, the customer is the biggest contributor of sales tax.  You've got little to do with it.

I feel a spinoff thread...explain why coaching is so easy through the lenses of our respective non-coaching jobs.

ChicosBailBonds

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22695
  • #AllInnocentLivesMatter
    • Cracked Sidewalks
Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #115 on: November 24, 2015, 10:43:49 PM »
This has to be one of the dumbest comments I've ever read.  Most people change tremendously during college. Maybe you arrived at MU wearing a sweater vest and ready for the professional world but for the majority of people they're still learning and developing.  I'm not saying that Wojo is accountable to do the life lessons things that Buzz did about a bottle with sand and rocks etc. But he is still supposed to impart his wisdom and teach when he can.

Agree

ChicosBailBonds

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22695
  • #AllInnocentLivesMatter
    • Cracked Sidewalks
Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #116 on: November 24, 2015, 10:47:32 PM »
It was and still is a poor decision in my opinion.  Attitude reflects leadership.  If you seriously cannot get your team (Ellenson, Ellenson, Cheatham, Carter, Anim, Heldt, and Cohen were all Wojo recruits) to give you a solid effort unless you resort to essentially a public shaming what does that say?

THE PLAYERS' EFFORT THE FIRST THREE GAMES OF THE SEASON WAS BETTER THAN THE COACHING FROM THE STAFF.

I do think there is a time and place for what transpired, I just think it should be used as a last stand.  Wojo essentially gambled with a move that either galvanizes a team or loses them completely three games into a season.  His job is to win basketball games and teach basketball, not life lessons.

Playing Carter for the majority of the game at PG was a much bigger factor in the outcome of this game.

Again, coaches, bosses, parents, etc....we all use different tactics to motivate our kids, our players, our employees.  Different strokes for different folks.  It's up to a good manager to understand what pushes them.  Some need a bit of humility, some may need a spoon full of sugar, others a public undressing....I've seen it where a boss came in and fired someone in front of everyone.  Let me tell you, that public shaming got everyone's attention REAL quick.

Whether they are life lessons or not, I don't think that's the point.  Was taking away pratice gear a life lesson?  Probably not, but one would hope that each and every day they are learning little life lessons that add up.  Hard work pays off, get to meetings on time, support your teammates, take responsibility, etc, etc, etc.

onepost

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 851
Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #117 on: November 24, 2015, 11:17:38 PM »
mattyv making a run at board goat right after I critique us for not having one!!

But seriously, how does anyone have a problem with Wojo's move here?  It was humbling, it was embarrassing, and most importantly, it was collective.  Everyone took part, coaches included.  It wasn't an us vs. them job, but the coaches took accountability for coming up vastly short the first 3 games as well.  I loved it, personally - not because it looks good on TV or is a story, but because it has WORKED so far.

Listen, to guys like us the lack of warmup jerseys and playing on playground hardtops would be whatever and/or exciting playing school yard ball while in NYC.  But to kids who have had gear thrown at them their whole lives, who are, dare I say, superficial enough to be offended when things are taken away and the luxury of indoor practicing is taken away, this sent a massive message.  Wojo won't tolerate any bullcrap and I love that, because I know first hand that Buzz would let things slide and then resentment settles in.  Guys all tick in different ways, and Wojo did something to spur a change in what was clearly not working.  He tweaked the starting lineup, moved to a more natural PG to start, sat a team captain who is going through as many growing pains as anyone, and showed these guys he won't stand for mediocrity, himself included.  We didn't play flawlessly by any means in Brooklyn, but my God we showed a pulse and had some fire for the first time in over a year and half's time.  And that to me is very exciting and encouraging going forward. 

Our entire team is essentially freshmen and sophomores (let's call Luke a sophomore).  We're gonna have our rough nights and have our nights where we show just how special this group can be going forward.  We've gotten both so far and I am very encouraged about the direction of this season after just 2 days.

TAMU, Knower of Ball

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22057
  • Meat Eater certified
Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #118 on: November 24, 2015, 11:43:03 PM »
TAMU

I'll take the logic a step further.  Many on this board including myself feel that while Marquette may not be the cream of the crop as far as NCAA basketball coaching jobs are concerned, it certainly is an attractive job considering the tradition, history, recent success, and commitment to the program that's given.

Shouldn't a high end basketball head coaching job like Marquette allow them the luxury of not having to hire a coach who needs on the job training?  We should be dealing with known quantities.

Rather a guy who needs on the job training with a high ceiling than a guy who doesn't with a low ceiling. Who exactly did you want us to hire? We missed on Shaka. That sucked. But he wasn't coming. We could have had Martin or Howland anytime we wanted them. Martin's resume was solid but hardly extraordinary. Howland didn't pass the sniff test at all. Was never an option for Marquette. I don't remember anyone else who was available who would have been a better option.
TAMU

I do know, Newsie is right on you knowing ball.


keefe

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8331
  • "Death From Above"
Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #119 on: November 24, 2015, 11:45:03 PM »
been fired a couple times, pulled over for dui, divorced, have a kid or two, etc etc

This was your first few years out of dental school, right??


Death on call

fjm

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3166
Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #120 on: November 25, 2015, 12:02:24 AM »
Motivation is stupid and doesn't work... Should have let them have all the "entitlements". I hate winning.

rocket surgeon

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3652
  • NA of course
Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #121 on: November 25, 2015, 05:23:42 AM »
This was your first few years out of dental school, right??

LOL-years?  first couple of weeks...made me the man i am today-heyna?  get them out of the way right off the bat.  actually been blessed with 31 years of wedded bliss(to the same woman) and 30 years of live and learn A LOT in dentistry(16 with my daddy)that's why they call it a practice-heyna?, but yes, there were a few pot-holes in the road before the seashells and balloons
don't...don't don't don't don't

tower912

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 23345
Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #122 on: November 25, 2015, 07:30:17 AM »
I wonder if at some level the success in Italy made the young guys believe they were good.   A couple of humbling losses combined with a pissed off coach made them realize they had to focus.  The last two games were certainly focused.   Yes, there are still going to be mental errors.   It is a young team.   But there won't be a lack of effort. 
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22724
Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #123 on: November 25, 2015, 08:16:18 AM »
Stoopid Wojo.

Another game won despite the inferior coach just because we shot well. (Oh wait ... only 42%, including 21% from 3.)

Um ... another game won even though we threw the ball all over the arena again. (Oh wait ... only 11 turnovers in 45 minutes.)

Um ... another game won despite our inept defense taught by our inept coach. (Oh wait ... ASU shot only 38% and we had 6 blocks and 6 steals despite our guys getting called for fouls every time they breathed on an ASU player.)

Must be a sad time for mattyv. Cant say "I told you so" today. We will have more losses, though, so he'll be back.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

 

feedback