Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

And in regards to the life lessons comment, these aren't little kids.  At this stage in life people are pretty much who they are going to be.  Whether one of these men goes on to the presidency or a life of crime has no bearing on Wojo as a basketball coach.  That is measured in the columns of wins and losses.

You clearly haven't met a college student before. I don't agree with everything you said above but I understand it. This I don't. I work with college students every day and none of them are close to fully developing who they are. If you don't think students don't find mentors in college and get important life lessons....I don't know what to say.

If you don't develop and grow as a person significantly in college, you wasted your money. You missed out on a vital part of the college experience.

[mattyv1908]

Or... and this is a wild thought... teenagers don't quite share every change they go through with their parents. It's a fact that the brain doesn't stop developing till the mid 20s

Nor should they, but parents live with far too much guilt regarding who their children choose to become.  I'm content with knowing the cold harsh reality that is the world will either make or break this one.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I don't understand how anyone can think Wojo's motivational tactics didn't work.  After three miserable games -- culminating in the debacle against Iowa  when MU appeared to be incompetent in every phase of the game -- they come back with poise and execution against a quality opponent on national tv.  What else could explain their sudden transformation?  The vast majority of Scoopers were ready to burn Wojo in effigy until last night.  Let's give him the credit when it's obviously due.

We look bad in a game: "Wojo didn't have them ready, FIRE WOJO! ARGHGHGHGHGHGH!"

We look good in a game: "Wojo had nothing to do with it. We won in spite of him."

Guy can't catch a break. Big win last night. Coach deserves some credit. Does it mean he's turned the corner and is the best coach ever? No. Does it make up for the last three games? No. Is it a good start? Yep

[StillAWarrior]

My bigger point is that if Wojo is more concerned with teaching life lessons than fundamental basketball he's in the wrong line of work.

Other than our guys hitting some shots that haven't fallen to date, the fundamental basketball aspects of our team were just as sorely lacking last night as they have been in the first 3 games.

Again, fair enough.  But there is nothing whatsoever to support the need for you to be making your "bigger point."  Nobody has suggested that Wojo is more concerned with teaching life lessons than teaching basketball.  They're a young team.  They're going to play ugly from time to time.  If they don't show improvement, we'll all agree to let you be first in line with your pitchfork (seeing as you're already there).

[mattyv1908]

You clearly haven't met a college student before. I don't agree with everything you said above but I understand it. This I don't. I work with college students every day and none of them are close to fully developing who they are. If you don't think students don't find mentors in college and get important life lessons....I don't know what to say.

If you don't develop and grow as a person significantly in college, you wasted your money. You missed out on a vital part of the college experience.

TAMU, if that's the case he should be paid on par with all the other faculty.

You and I both know that he's paid the money he is to get results and win basketball games.

[GGGG]

I'm glad this win is evidence enough for you that all is well.  I don't t feel the same.

I saw a team that looked as if it had never seen full court pressure.  I understand the season is early, but how it it possible that a basic strategy for breaking the press hasn't been employed/practiced prior to the season starting?  It's not like LSU was the second coming of '40 minutes of hell'.  It was very basic pressure.

There were two stoppages in play under 90 seconds.  I'm sorry, but anybody on this board would make sure to emphasize the importance of not shooting an open three pointer with a lead and a chance to bleed clock.  That's a benchable offense.  Either Duane Wilson is the dumbest basketball player to ever don an MU uniform or somebody didn't remind him of the importance of the situation ahead of time.  It's really not hard.  I have a rule in my company for my managers that if they break it they will be seeking employment elsewhere.  I haven't had a single violation.  Duane Wilson not having the same fear of taking an early three point attempt with the lead late in a game means it hasn't been stressed enough or at all.

I understand Simmons is an excellent player, but insisting that Luke/Henry guard him in transition for 40 minutes was a horrible decision that led to numerous transition buckets because they couldn't stick with him.

It was a good win last night, but let's not turn it into what it wasn't - a masterfully coached basketball game.

And in regards to the life lessons comment, these aren't little kids.  At this stage in life people are pretty much who they are going to be.  Whether one of these men goes on to the presidency or a life of crime has no bearing on Wojo as a basketball coach.  That is measured in the columns of wins and losses.

You are insufferable. 

After the Iowa game you ripped Wojo for his coaching and the players for their effort.  Against LSU, the players played their asses off, but are a young team that makes mistakes.  Wojo got his players focused and playing harder.  He also coached that game well.

But instead of admitting it and being happy they beat a ranked team after getting blown out of the water a few days ago, you harp on the few things they did wrong.

So is Wojo the next John Wooden?  I seriously doubt it.  But he clearly did a lot of things well in the four days between Iowa and LSU and should be commended for it.

Instead you are just being the Eeyore that you always are.

[NWarsh]

I smell a guy who is hoping the Warriors fall flat tonight -- as in Iowa flat -- so he can say, "I told you Wojo is still a dope."

Nobody here said Wojo and the Warriors have "fixed" everything. What we are saying is that, hopefully, it was a good positive step in a long road to respectability. I think what several of us also are saying is it's easy to always look for the negative and it's idiotic to rip into Wojo and Marquette after they finally did enough good things to win a close game against a quality opponent.

Some of the more realistic posters here point to how young this team is and how far it has to go. And then others say, "Screw that. Other teams are winning with freshmen." And then a nationally ranked LSU team shows up with the BEST freshman and a highly touted supporting group  ... and they were so good that they lost to the crappy, unprepared Warriors and their horrible, gimmicky coach.

Anyway, I hope the good things are repeatable and the bad things will get less bad with time, repetition and experience.

Now go get your Arizona State jersey on and hope you get the chance to tell us you told us so.

+1000000000

The fact of the matter is this is a young team that will not see the fundamental errors change over night, or probably even in a months time.  You just look for growth and less of those fundamental errors as the season goes on.  Anybody who does not understand that has never played, coached or knows nothing about the game of basketball.  What Wojo did was the same thing that pretty much every college coach in the country does at some point.  No it will not correct fundamental errors or make us suddenly become knock down shooters, but it does provide an extra spark that might get you to do a couple more of those small intangible things that help you win close games.  Hopefully that carries over for more than a game, and if it does that should tell us something about the leaders on this team and that we will see better things from this team as the year progresses.

[Eldon]

Ding, ding, ding.

This is exactly how I look at this.  I'm not sure I'll take the leap to say that I question his leadership, I just think it is stupid.  I'm guessing some players responded, while others collectively rolled their eyes.

This is one area where I think having an experienced guy on the team would have helped. 

There may indeed have been some eye-rolling.  Maybe some players thought (to themselves or aloud) "wtf is this corny a** sh*t?"  But if there were a senior member on the team who everyone looked up to/respected who also got behind the white t-shirt idea, then the idea may not seem so corny.  As an example, if Bazz tried some similar gimmick, and players saw it as such, I picture if a Trent Lockett type of player got behind the gimmick, others would follow.  They wouldn't see it as a gimmick anymore.  They would take it seriously.

As an aside, I'm not sure I would agree that it is a gimimick.  I mean, I can see why some may believe it is, but I can think of a whole host of other situations where  symbolic acts may seem corny to an outsider, but taken seriously by insiders (e.g., the military, religion, fraternities, etc.)

[StillAWarrior]

Like most here, I believe it is too early to really make a decision on Wojo.  Let's assume for the sake of argument (humor me, mattyv) that Wojo is a great teacher of fundamental basketball.  Sometimes, in order to teach, you have to get the team's attention.  Sometimes, in order to get a team's attention, you have to be creative.  Perhaps we've seen the beginning of this process.  Time will tell.

[Galway Eagle]

TAMU, if that's the case he should be paid on par with all the other faculty.

You and I both know that he's paid the money he is to get results and win basketball games.

That doesn't negate other responsibilities. If he's able to grow character and win that'd be fulfilling every aspect of his job. I'm not saying he should be teaching feels class by any means but just because he's paid to coach a basketball team doesn't mean he doesn't teach them anything. Listen to the "win every day" video he says win every day as students, as individuals, as players etc. part of coaching them to win in those aspects is coaching them up as people. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

My bigger point is that if Wojo is more concerned with teaching life lessons than fundamental basketball he's in the wrong line of work.

Other than our guys hitting some shots that haven't fallen to date, the fundamental basketball aspects of our team were just as sorely lacking last night as they have been in the first 3 games.

If you think teaching life lessons isn't a part of coaching, you know nothing about the business. Talk to any coach, any player, anyone who works around college athletics and they will tell you it is a vital part of the position. There's a reason why players value their relationships with their coaches so much. Teaching basketball fundamentals is the biggest part of coaching, but is not the only part.

Secondly, we were fundamentally better last night. Yes we had too many turnovers, yes we struggled against the press, and yes Duane shot a dumb three. But we also stopped settling for outside three pointers (19 3PA vs. 30 vs. Iowa). Our off the ball movement was MUCH better (personally think this was the key to the game). Our defense was MUCH better. You keep screaming about them scoring 80 points but that was because the pace of the game was very high and the refs called a lot of fouls. We held them to 37% shooting. That's fantastic. We held Ben Simmons to 43% shooting despite the fact that most of his buckets were within 10 feet of the hoop. Simmons had shot 62% on the season going into tonight's game. He got 20 points but we got the best of him. We outrebounded them. We outblocked them. If you don't think our defense wasn't improved, you weren't watching. Or you were watching with an agenda.

Did playing in t-shirts help us win? God if I know. Nobody outside the team knows. But it certainly didn't hurt. Just because you would have rolled your eyes at this tactic and thought it was dumb, doesn't mean that's how the players responded. I use similar tactics with the students I work with and they tend to respond very well. Some roll their eyes but when the rest of the group buys in, they quickly follow suit.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

TAMU, if that's the case he should be paid on par with all the other faculty.

You and I both know that he's paid the money he is to get results and win basketball games.

He is paid to get results. Teaching life lessons is part of that. If you don't understand that, you don't understand coaching college students.

When you watch Rudy you scream at the coach for putting in a walk on don't you?

[mattyv1908]

MU82-

You have me assessed incorrectly.  I'll try a different approach.

How many on this forum over the years have lambasted Steve Lavin?  Quite a few.

How can the same posters guilty of tearing down the success of a coach with an actual track record of success have the cognitive dissonance to then ignore the same issues when it concerns Wojo?

I think Wojo and Lavin are both two coaches who thus far have been excellent recruiters who can't effectively coach X's and O's.

I think he's a dud.  Have from the first day he was hired.  Should I let what I consider a bad aspect of MU basketball cause me to stop liking MU?  Is this forum a place for fawning adulation only?

[MomofMUltiples]

I recommend we scoopers strip mattyv of his username and make him earn it by offering the same thorough, honest and semi-supportive analysis as is provided by the JS reporter of the same name.  From now on, we can call him "Boxer Shorts."

[Marquette_g]

He is paid to get results. Teaching life lessons is part of that. If you don't understand that, you don't understand coaching college students.

When you watch Rudy you scream at the coach for putting in a walk on don't you?

No, when I watch Rudy I think the whole hand in the jersey thing is cheesy, in much the same way I think that making young men "earn" some mesh shorts is cheesy.

[GGGG]

MU82-

You have me assessed incorrectly.  I'll try a different approach.

How many on this forum over the years have lambasted Steve Lavin?  Quite a few.

How can the same posters guilty of tearing down the success of a coach with an actual track record of success have the cognitive dissonance to then ignore the same issues when it concerns Wojo?

I think Wojo and Lavin are both two coaches who thus far have been excellent recruiters who can't effectively coach X's and O's.

I think he's a dud.  Have from the first day he was hired.  Should I let what I consider a bad aspect of MU basketball cause me to stop liking MU?  Is this forum a place for fawning adulation only?

Absolutely not.

But when you criticize a coach after a bad loss, and then say "well, he had nothing to do with it" after a very good win, it makes you look like you are looking for data points to prove your initial feelings about Wojo more than anything.

Admitting that he did well preparing his team to play LSU after the Iowa debacle doesn't mean that your overall position is proven wrong.  That will take time - and you may be right.

[T-Bone]

I think some folks may not be against it per se, but rather, they feel that it is a gimmick.  And if Wojo has to turn to gimmicks to motivate his team, what does that say about his leadership abilities (as a coach)?

Like karate and ATVs. 

Every motivational speech is a gimmick.  Every game ball is a gimmick.  Every incentive they give you at work is a gimmick (some of those have become "standard" like an annual bonus).  So is your spouse/SO looking nice for a special night out.  These all work (to some extent or another).  It brings out or enhances a different aspect of our personalities that otherwise would go through our normal lives.

So, if Wojo wants them to dress up as gorillas to emphasize rebounding, so be it.  It may not work for everyone, but it'll work for someone.

[StillAWarrior]

MU82-

You have me assessed incorrectly.  I'll try a different approach.

How many on this forum over the years have lambasted Steve Lavin?  Quite a few.

How can the same posters guilty of tearing down the success of a coach with an actual track record of success have the cognitive dissonance to then ignore the same issues when it concerns Wojo?

I think Wojo and Lavin are both two coaches who thus far have been excellent recruiters who can't effectively coach X's and O's.

I think he's a dud.  Have from the first day he was hired.  Should I let what I consider a bad aspect of MU basketball cause me to stop liking MU?  Is this forum a place for fawning adulation only?

I've highlighted a key point for you to consider.  Lavin's first HC job was nearly 20 years ago.  Wojo started last year.  Just like young players are going to play ugly sometimes, young coaches are going to coach ugly.  It's a learned skill.  Hopefully Wojo will learn it.  If not, Marquette will move on.  You're entitled to your opinion, of course, and may even be proved correct.  It's just that I tend to think it's prematurely formed.  I guess that's not surprising...some people are pretty set in their ways, and their opinions are formed much, much earlier than most want to admit. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

No, when I watch Rudy I think the whole hand in the jersey thing is cheesy, in much the same way I think that making young men "earn" some mesh shorts is cheesy.

That's you. Not the players. All it takes is one respected leader on the team to buy in to get the whole team to buy in. Just like Bagpiper said. I know when I do something like this with my students I take the leaders aside and tell them what I"m going to do and why and tell them I need them to buy into it. Works like a charm

[GGGG]

That's you. Not the players. All it takes is one respected leader on the team to buy in to get the whole team to buy in. Just like Bagpiper said. I know when I do something like this with my students I take the leaders aside and tell them what I"m going to do and why and tell them I need them to buy into it. Works like a charm

Rudy is probably not the best example.

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/blog/dr_saturday/post/Joe-Montana-scores-another-touchdown-for-reality?urn=ncaaf,268408

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

MU82-

You have me assessed incorrectly.  I'll try a different approach.

How many on this forum over the years have lambasted Steve Lavin?  Quite a few.

How can the same posters guilty of tearing down the success of a coach with an actual track record of success have the cognitive dissonance to then ignore the same issues when it concerns Wojo?

I think Wojo and Lavin are both two coaches who thus far have been excellent recruiters who can't effectively coach X's and O's.

This one's easy. Lavin's been a head coach for what? 20 years. Wojo's in his second year. We readily admit he struggles but believe he can get better. Lavin proved over 20 years that he couldn't. Also, we criticized Lavin last year because he had a roster chock full of upperclassmen. Should have been his best season ever at St. John's. We recognize that we are in year two of rebuild.

Come on Matty, you knew this before you posted it.

I think he's a dud.  Have from the first day he was hired.  Should I let what I consider a bad aspect of MU basketball cause me to stop liking MU?  Is this forum a place for fawning adulation only?

That's fine you think he's a dud. He very well might be. But you are approaching Ners territory when you criticize even when someone did well. We are a long way from proving one way or another if Wojo is a dud. What level does he have to get to for you to say he's not a dud? For me, we'd have to miss the postseason this year and next year for me to say he's a dud.

[Marquette_g]

Like karate and ATVs. 

Every motivational speech is a gimmick.  Every game ball is a gimmick.  Every incentive they give you at work is a gimmick (some of those have become "standard" like an annual bonus).  So is your spouse/SO looking nice for a special night out.  These all work (to some extent or another).  It brings out or enhances a different aspect of our personalities that otherwise would go through our normal lives.

So, if Wojo wants them to dress up as gorillas to emphasize rebounding, so be it.  It may not work for everyone, but it'll work for someone.

How meta of you. 

I'm glad they won, and if this is what got them there fine, but I believe this had more to do with execution on the court than any of this stuff.  Just as I tend not to buy into the locker room camaraderie, distractions, etc. 

[Vander Blue Man Group]

And in regards to the life lessons comment, these aren't little kids.  At this stage in life people are pretty much who they are going to be.  Whether one of these men goes on to the presidency or a life of crime has no bearing on Wojo as a basketball coach.  That is measured in the columns of wins and losses.

This is the type of comment that makes it incredibly difficult to put much credence into anything else you have to say.  While it may be true for some individuals, most people are nowhere near a finished product at that age and will still evolve considerably as a person. 

While the coach's job is ultimately to win games there are countless stories of coaches that have had positive impacts on players' lives long after their playing days were over.  As others have said, winning games and impacting someone's life in a positive manner don't need to be mutually exclusive.   

[GGGG]

And in regards to the life lessons comment, these aren't little kids.  At this stage in life people are pretty much who they are going to be. 

So you seriously think that 18-22 year olds are "pretty much who they are going to be?" 

[Disco Hippie]

Incredibly impressed with the passion for MU hoops expressed here, regardless of whether I agree or disagree with various opinions but let's not forget we all want the same thing at the end of the day and that's to win.  Personally I'm neutral on Wojo.  He's proven to be a great recruiter but that will only last if he wins.  His grace period will likely expire at the end of next year and if he doesn't win, we won't get the players, it's as simple as that!

Look I'm thrilled we won last night but let's be honest, that game could of gone either way.  It's never a good thing to have led the entire game only to hand your opponent their first lead of the game with 20 seconds to go.  This practice jersey nonsense, whether it worked or not, is just noise.  What we should all be reasonably happy about is that last night this team demonstrated that they are capable of playing with anyone, and that would still be true even if LSU knocked down that last second 3 and we lost a heartbreaker.   Again very happy we won, but let's not get carried away.  Just looking at the number of turnovers, our inability to handle the press, and numerous ill advised shots early in possessions, we still have a lot of work to do but I'm cautiously optimistic we'll be a better team when conf. play begins.  Now lets take down the Sun Devils!