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Author Topic: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it  (Read 17074 times)

ChicosBailBonds

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jesmu84

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mattyv1908

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Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2015, 02:13:43 AM »
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=49382.0

It was and still is a poor decision in my opinion.  Attitude reflects leadership.  If you seriously cannot get your team (Ellenson, Ellenson, Cheatham, Carter, Anim, Heldt, and Cohen were all Wojo recruits) to give you a solid effort unless you resort to essentially a public shaming what does that say?

THE PLAYERS' EFFORT THE FIRST THREE GAMES OF THE SEASON WAS BETTER THAN THE COACHING FROM THE STAFF.

I do think there is a time and place for what transpired, I just think it should be used as a last stand.  Wojo essentially gambled with a move that either galvanizes a team or loses them completely three games into a season.  His job is to win basketball games and teach basketball, not life lessons.

Playing Carter for the majority of the game at PG was a much bigger factor in the outcome of this game.
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rocket surgeon

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Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2015, 05:31:04 AM »
It was and still is a poor decision in my opinion.  Attitude reflects leadership.  If you seriously cannot get your team (Ellenson, Ellenson, Cheatham, Carter, Anim, Heldt, and Cohen were all Wojo recruits) to give you a solid effort unless you resort to essentially a public shaming what does that say?

THE PLAYERS' EFFORT THE FIRST THREE GAMES OF THE SEASON WAS BETTER THAN THE COACHING FROM THE STAFF.

I do think there is a time and place for what transpired, I just think it should be used as a last stand.  Wojo essentially gambled with a move that either galvanizes a team or loses them completely three games into a season.  His job is to win basketball games and teach basketball, not life lessons.

Playing Carter for the majority of the game at PG was a much bigger factor in the outcome of this game.

i wouldn't look at it as a "public shaming"  rather, a stripping down to the basics, a humility, a start from where ya came from, a new start...the coaching admittedly was as bad as the playing.  not saying effort wasn't there, but execution.  the coaches can draw up every winning play in the world on paper, but the players have to execute it.  turnovers, ill-advised shots, missed 3 pointers, free throws, etc...time to start over.  whoever buys in, gets rewarded.  then the others will follow suit. 

when would you have thought would be a good time to try this?  the big east tourney?   remember wojo played and learned from one of the best.  we may be looking back at this point in the season with "holy schnikees" remember when wojo made them wear tee shirts...since then we've fill-in-the-blank??  yes it's "old school", but remember hoosiers? 

the players needed a little "beat down", get pissed, play pissed, etc...i knew guys that played for crean-his tactics were way worse than this-actually they were down right nasty and that was when they were playing pretty good.  wojo is doing the right thing here, and it includes himself; you don't think he himself isn't being humuliated so far?  this is what you do, strip everything back and start over- the only thing he can't do at this point is put the rock in the hole
don't...don't don't don't don't

mug644

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Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2015, 06:10:24 AM »
It was and still is a poor decision in my opinion.  Attitude reflects leadership.  If you seriously cannot get your team (Ellenson, Ellenson, Cheatham, Carter, Anim, Heldt, and Cohen were all Wojo recruits) to give you a solid effort unless you resort to essentially a public shaming what does that say?

THE PLAYERS' EFFORT THE FIRST THREE GAMES OF THE SEASON WAS BETTER THAN THE COACHING FROM THE STAFF.

I do think there is a time and place for what transpired, I just think it should be used as a last stand.  Wojo essentially gambled with a move that either galvanizes a team or loses them completely three games into a season. His job is to win basketball games and teach basketball, not life lessons.

Playing Carter for the majority of the game at PG was a much bigger factor in the outcome of this game.

Two thoughts:
1. Perhaps the move that you consider a "gamble" is evidence of Wojo evolving as a coach and/or that he knows the team well enough that he was confident that such an approach would work. It seems to have.

2. Lots of coaches do things such as publicly acknowledge poor play and withhold 'luxuries,' including Wojo's mentor. "We have a thing on our team, a standard, we tell each other the truth. So you confront it," Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski said after the VCU game because of their poor showing against Kentucky. "He [Grayson Allen] didn't play well against Kentucky. He didn't have a good look and he didn't adjust. That was his first big time start too, it's not like Grayson's a combat veteran. So I was hard on him but honest." http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400827728

Frenns Liquor Depot

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Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2015, 06:17:56 AM »
Didn't Buzz make everyone earn their practice jersey ?

  I don't know how you can complain about tactics when the team looked good/focused for the first time this year.

Well done Wojo

Skatastrophy

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Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2015, 06:27:11 AM »
Didn't Buzz make everyone earn their practice jersey ?

  I don't know how you can complain about tactics when the team looked good/focused for the first time this year.

Well done Wojo

Yes. Buzz did the same thing and everyone on scoop thought it was charming.

jsglow

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Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2015, 06:38:49 AM »
Let's also recall that every coach went to the white tee too acknowledging that they also hadn't earned the right to wear the MU colors or logo.

Look, I'm most pleased that they played with a warrior spirit last night.  I'm also pleased that their commitment resulted in some positive reinforcement.  Maybe 'soft and young' has just started to turn into 'gritty and accountable'.

MU82

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Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2015, 06:49:48 AM »
It was and still is a poor decision in my opinion.  Attitude reflects leadership.  If you seriously cannot get your team (Ellenson, Ellenson, Cheatham, Carter, Anim, Heldt, and Cohen were all Wojo recruits) to give you a solid effort unless you resort to essentially a public shaming what does that say?

THE PLAYERS' EFFORT THE FIRST THREE GAMES OF THE SEASON WAS BETTER THAN THE COACHING FROM THE STAFF.

I do think there is a time and place for what transpired, I just think it should be used as a last stand.  Wojo essentially gambled with a move that either galvanizes a team or loses them completely three games into a season.  His job is to win basketball games and teach basketball, not life lessons.

Playing Carter for the majority of the game at PG was a much bigger factor in the outcome of this game.

I couldn't disagree more with this.

First and foremost, it obviously worked. So that's almost "case closed."

Second, sometimes even the best players in the world need to be reminded how to prepare and play properly. They have to be reminded they aren't guaranteed or entitled to anything. They have to be reminded that playing big-time sports is a privilege.

Third, as the article said: Wojciechowski and the coaching staff joined in the punishment, wearing plain white T-shirts of their own to match the players during Monday afternoon's shootaround. This was his way of saying: "I'm not thrilled with the way things are going, and I'm part of the reason as well." Players notice that.

Fourth, if you really think teaching life lessons isn't part of coaching, you must never have coached or played.

I do agree with you about one thing: Starting Carter and playing him most of the game was a good move, even if Carter (like everybody else) struggled with the press.

And finally, while you were ripping Wojo a new one despite employing a strategy that worked, it would have been nice if you had at least given him a thumbs-up for the winning offensive play. During the timeout, I told those around me at Barclays that I hoped he'd clear it out for JJJ, who was our most dynamic player most of the night.

As an aside, in recapping the game with my fellow Warriors a little later, I enjoyed saying: "Remember when JJJ was called a wasted scholarship?'"

Great win and a pretty darn good job by Wojo. It's a shame that the best you could come up with was criticism.
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CAGASS24

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Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2015, 07:12:14 AM »
your onlr argument is that if it doesn't work he loses the team - what evidence do you have that he would have lost the team?  Bottom line is that EVERYONE should have been ashamed of what that team gave against Iowa and any player that thought the response was unjustified should get the hell out of our program.

jsglow

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Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2015, 07:28:32 AM »
I couldn't disagree more with this.

First and foremost, it obviously worked. So that's almost "case closed."

Second, sometimes even the best players in the world need to be reminded how to prepare and play properly. They have to be reminded they aren't guaranteed or entitled to anything. They have to be reminded that playing big-time sports is a privilege.

Third, as the article said: Wojciechowski and the coaching staff joined in the punishment, wearing plain white T-shirts of their own to match the players during Monday afternoon's shootaround. This was his way of saying: "I'm not thrilled with the way things are going, and I'm part of the reason as well." Players notice that.

Fourth, if you really think teaching life lessons isn't part of coaching, you must never have coached or played.

I do agree with you about one thing: Starting Carter and playing him most of the game was a good move, even if Carter (like everybody else) struggled with the press.

And finally, while you were ripping Wojo a new one despite employing a strategy that worked, it would have been nice if you had at least given him a thumbs-up for the winning offensive play. During the timeout, I told those around me at Barclays that I hoped he'd clear it out for JJJ, who was our most dynamic player most of the night.

As an aside, in recapping the game with my fellow Warriors a little later, I enjoyed saying: "Remember when JJJ was called a wasted scholarship?'"

Great win and a pretty darn good job by Wojo. It's a shame that the best you could come up with was criticism.

+1.

I hope they never forget that Brooklyn playground.  Maybe it'll be a good place to begin preparations prior to the BEast next March.  Never forget where you're from.

SuddenSam

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Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2015, 07:38:20 AM »
Well done Wojo & Co.  LSU is no Iowa, but what a turnaround from Iowa.

Now need to continue the momentum forward.  Won't be a straight line of course, but no more Iowa debacles.  Learning and improving every game.  Showed we are capable of improving and we have lots to still improve on.

warriorchick

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Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2015, 07:59:18 AM »
+1.

I hope they never forget that Brooklyn playground.  Maybe it'll be a good place to begin preparations prior to the BEast next March.  Never forget where you're from.

LOL.  It will be like the training montage in Rocky IV.
Have some patience, FFS.

Stronghold

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Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2015, 08:23:14 AM »
"We have a lot of growing up to do, and you don't grow up without earning things. You don't get accomplishment or achievement without earning things."

Develop a culture around this and success will be had.  In more than just basketball.

mattyv1908

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Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2015, 08:33:48 AM »
I couldn't disagree more with this.

First and foremost, it obviously worked. So that's almost "case closed."

Second, sometimes even the best players in the world need to be reminded how to prepare and play properly. They have to be reminded they aren't guaranteed or entitled to anything. They have to be reminded that playing big-time sports is a privilege.

Third, as the article said: Wojciechowski and the coaching staff joined in the punishment, wearing plain white T-shirts of their own to match the players during Monday afternoon's shootaround. This was his way of saying: "I'm not thrilled with the way things are going, and I'm part of the reason as well." Players notice that.

Fourth, if you really think teaching life lessons isn't part of coaching, you must never have coached or played.

I do agree with you about one thing: Starting Carter and playing him most of the game was a good move, even if Carter (like everybody else) struggled with the press.

And finally, while you were ripping Wojo a new one despite employing a strategy that worked, it would have been nice if you had at least given him a thumbs-up for the winning offensive play. During the timeout, I told those around me at Barclays that I hoped he'd clear it out for JJJ, who was our most dynamic player most of the night.

As an aside, in recapping the game with my fellow Warriors a little later, I enjoyed saying: "Remember when JJJ was called a wasted scholarship?'"

Great win and a pretty darn good job by Wojo. It's a shame that the best you could come up with was criticism.


I'm glad this win is evidence enough for you that all is well.  I don't t feel the same.

I saw a team that looked as if it had never seen full court pressure.  I understand the season is early, but how it it possible that a basic strategy for breaking the press hasn't been employed/practiced prior to the season starting?  It's not like LSU was the second coming of '40 minutes of hell'.  It was very basic pressure.

There were two stoppages in play under 90 seconds.  I'm sorry, but anybody on this board would make sure to emphasize the importance of not shooting an open three pointer with a lead and a chance to bleed clock.  That's a benchable offense.  Either Duane Wilson is the dumbest basketball player to ever don an MU uniform or somebody didn't remind him of the importance of the situation ahead of time.  It's really not hard.  I have a rule in my company for my managers that if they break it they will be seeking employment elsewhere.  I haven't had a single violation.  Duane Wilson not having the same fear of taking an early three point attempt with the lead late in a game means it hasn't been stressed enough or at all.

I understand Simmons is an excellent player, but insisting that Luke/Henry guard him in transition for 40 minutes was a horrible decision that led to numerous transition buckets because they couldn't stick with him.

It was a good win last night, but let's not turn it into what it wasn't - a masterfully coached basketball game.


And in regards to the life lessons comment, these aren't little kids.  At this stage in life people are pretty much who they are going to be.  Whether one of these men goes on to the presidency or a life of crime has no bearing on Wojo as a basketball coach.  That is measured in the columns of wins and losses.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2015, 08:35:24 AM by mattyv1908 »
Shut this board down at the opening tip.  If they win, open it back up.  If they lose, keep it shut it down until the next morning.  - Sultan of Slurpery

Skatastrophy

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Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2015, 08:39:38 AM »
I saw a team that looked as if it had never seen full court pressure. 

They hadn't yet, and they did the things that freshmen do. They're used to being bigger, faster, and stronger than everyone else. So they tried to dribble their way out of it instead of keeping their heads up and passing. Chalk it up as a learning experience and a win.

Now if they play the same way against pressure the next time without improving, then I'll get worried.


bilsu

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Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2015, 08:43:49 AM »
This is the first time I really liked Wojo. I think Al McGuire along with any other great coaches believe you should be teaching players life lessons. They come to you as teenagers and should leave as men.

Galway Eagle

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Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2015, 08:46:19 AM »
And in regards to the life lessons comment, these aren't little kids.  At this stage in life people are pretty much who they are going to be.  Whether one of these men goes on to the presidency or a life of crime has no bearing on Wojo as a basketball coach.  That is measured in the columns of wins and losses.

This has to be one of the dumbest comments I've ever read.  Most people change tremendously during college. Maybe you arrived at MU wearing a sweater vest and ready for the professional world but for the majority of people they're still learning and developing.  I'm not saying that Wojo is accountable to do the life lessons things that Buzz did about a bottle with sand and rocks etc. But he is still supposed to impart his wisdom and teach when he can. 
Maigh Eo for Sam

Marquette_g

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Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2015, 08:48:53 AM »
I think this sort of thing is incredibly stupid.  I'm glad the won the game, but there are some major leaps in logic to say that this is the reason they won.  I can't say it isn't, but there is no way to say it was bc they lost some mesh tank-tops for a few days.

Is it possible that they simply trended toward the mean of how they will shoot this year after 3 bad shooting games?

This all seems like it was pulled directly out of some terrible high school football movie. 

I hope they continue playing well and win today, but regardless of the outcome I'm not going to check to see what color their shoot-around clothing was today.

3Mer

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Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2015, 08:58:24 AM »
I don't understand how anyone can think Wojo's motivational tactics didn't work.  After three miserable games -- culminating in the debacle against Iowa  when MU appeared to be incompetent in every phase of the game -- they come back with poise and execution against a quality opponent on national tv.  What else could explain their sudden transformation?  The vast majority of Scoopers were ready to burn Wojo in effigy until last night.  Let's give him the credit when it's obviously due.

naginiF

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Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2015, 08:59:28 AM »
This has to be one of the dumbest comments I've ever read.  Most people change tremendously during college. Maybe you arrived at MU wearing a sweater vest and ready for the professional world but for the majority of people they're still learning and developing.  I'm not saying that Wojo is accountable to do the life lessons things that Buzz did about a bottle with sand and rocks etc. But he is still supposed to impart his wisdom and teach when he can.
+1
I'm pretty glad I've matured/grown from the person I was at 18. 

Skatastrophy

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Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2015, 09:00:32 AM »
+1
I'm pretty glad I've matured/grown from the person I was at 18. 

So are your parents (and mine, too).

D'Lo Brown

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Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2015, 09:02:43 AM »
It was and still is a poor decision in my opinion.  Attitude reflects leadership.  If you seriously cannot get your team (Ellenson, Ellenson, Cheatham, Carter, Anim, Heldt, and Cohen were all Wojo recruits) to give you a solid effort unless you resort to essentially a public shaming what does that say?

THE PLAYERS' EFFORT THE FIRST THREE GAMES OF THE SEASON WAS BETTER THAN THE COACHING FROM THE STAFF.

I do think there is a time and place for what transpired, I just think it should be used as a last stand.  Wojo essentially gambled with a move that either galvanizes a team or loses them completely three games into a season.  His job is to win basketball games and teach basketball, not life lessons.

Playing Carter for the majority of the game at PG was a much bigger factor in the outcome of this game.

Ridiculous. It sounds like you don't have any coaching experience, because if you did, you would know that the players decide the game. Sure, the plays/strategy do have a minor impact on the outcome, but the "words of wisdom" or "leadership" from the coach means almost nothing.

Wojo can encourage all he wants, some will get it and some won't. A lot of kids will run through a wall with no encouragement at all. Some will never give max effort no matter what is said or done. The players' attitudes reflect their own attitudes, and little else.

These kids have a lot to learn about becoming a man, but they are still kids... Give them a chance to grow before you blame it all on Wojo.

mattyv1908

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Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #23 on: November 24, 2015, 09:02:58 AM »
I don't understand how anyone can think Wojo's motivational tactics didn't work.  After three miserable games -- culminating in the debacle against Iowa  when MU appeared to be incompetent in every phase of the game -- they come back with poise and execution against a quality opponent on national tv.  What else could explain their sudden transformation?  The vast majority of Scoopers were ready to burn Wojo in effigy until last night.  Let's give him the credit when it's obviously due.

How were they any more competent?

22 turnovers
Horrible against the press
Horrible free throw shooting
Horrible late game clock management
Horrible defense giving up 80 points again

If you consider what you watched 'poise and execution' then I want a pair of whatever rose colored glasses you watched the game through.

Here's the differences -Wojo let Carter run the game at PG and they actually hit some shots.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2015, 09:07:49 AM by mattyv1908 »
Shut this board down at the opening tip.  If they win, open it back up.  If they lose, keep it shut it down until the next morning.  - Sultan of Slurpery

MerrittsMustache

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Re: Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it
« Reply #24 on: November 24, 2015, 09:07:29 AM »
How were they any more competent?

22 turnovers
Horrible against the press
Horrible free throw shooting
Horrible late game clock management
Horrible defense giving up 80 points again

Here's the differences -Wojo let Carter run the game at PG and they actually hit some shots.

And you DON'T think that was a direct result of practicing in white t-shirts?


 

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