Wojo's Leash

[kmwtrucks]

My only complaint would be we did not try and feed the post much in the 2nd half.  The other would be I would have liked a coach on his staff that had head coaching Experience.  I feel like that would help his in game adjustments and subsityutions.  None of the coach's on the staff have ever done that.  I know from a practice stand point the are probably good ASSt coach's do a lot of the drills ETC.

[bilsu]

Buzz was 25-10 the first year and that is with James breaking his foot. He followed that with 22-15. so he would of lost 20 games sometime in his second season, but without looking it up would have probably 35 wins. So 55 games give or take.

[mu03eng]

Buzz?

65 games 45-20 (counting tournament loses and wins)
68 games 48-20 (regular season only)

[bilsu]

There is nothing we've seen this year that says we can't be a bubble team.

I don't think people have an appreciation for how bare the cupboard was after Buzz left and how young we are.
Let's have this conversation in February and see where we are at.

The cupboard was not so bare, if he had kept more of the incoming recruits and did not lose Burton and Dawson at mid-season. Sure we finished the season with 8 scholarship players, but he has a lot of blame in that. He even lost his first recruit who would of helped in practice. I cannot think of his name, but he transferred in and then transferred out before the end of the first semester.

[79Warrior]

The cupboard was not so bare, if he had kept more of the incoming recruits and did not lose Burton and Dawson at mid-season. Sure we finished the season with 8 scholarship players, but he has a lot of blame in that. He even lost his first recruit who would of helped in practice. I cannot think of his name, but he transferred in and then transferred out before the end of the first semester.

was that the Loyola transfer?

[bilsu]

was that the Loyola transfer?

yes

[Loose Cannon]

Caveats:

1) I haven't been able to watch either game (living in Europe 2am tips are a tough sell)

2) I only seemed to be inclined to post when the team is down (so I guess I'm trolling?)

3) I actually really really do want Wojo to work out.  He's the "type" of coach we want.

But seriously. This is a top ten recruiting class.  The team had a chance to get some real game (euro as it is) experience in Italy.  Belmont is a quality squad but they were still a mid-major at home that we had forever to prepare for (and their team was a known quantity while we were not - should have been easier for us to scout them than vice-versa).  IUPUI is a 250 cupcake that is the 4th best school in their state that was a missed free-throw away from beating us at home.  Why is it that Calipari can take a team of freshmen to the brink of 40-0 and Wojo can't take care of business in his backyard against, at best, schools whose mascots even a savvy fan has to google.

 

How about giving your views after March 6 2016 and see if you see any change.

[Pakuni]

Buzz was 25-10 the first year and that is with James breaking his foot. He followed that with 22-15. so he would of lost 20 games sometime in his second season, but without looking it up would have probably 35 wins. So 55 games give or take.

That's one way of looking at it.
Another way is that he was 23-5 in games James started, 2-5 in games in which he didn't.
I'm not a Buzz basher, but let's not mislead about what he did without James in the lineup.

[Pakuni]

The cupboard was not so bare, if he had kept more of the incoming recruits and did not lose Burton and Dawson at mid-season. Sure we finished the season with 8 scholarship players, but he has a lot of blame in that. He even lost his first recruit who would of helped in practice. I cannot think of his name, but he transferred in and then transferred out before the end of the first semester.

It's really not fair to blame any coach - Buzz, Wojo, whoever - for a kid leaving when the coach he signed to play for leaves. It happens to every coach at every school.
Wojo is no more to blame for Burton leaving or Hill de-committing than Buzz was to blame for Christopherson leaving and Tyshawn Taylor de-committing.

[naginiF]

The cupboard was not so bare, if he had kept more of the incoming recruits and did not lose Burton and Dawson at mid-season. Sure we finished the season with 8 scholarship players, but he has a lot of blame in that. He even lost his first recruit who would of helped in practice. I cannot think of his name, but he transferred in and then transferred out before the end of the first semester.

I'd say "responsibility" vs blame.  Burton was a unique situation and Dawson wasn't the type of person/player that would be happy in the program.  I think he did right by the university and the players in both situations.  The alternative would be to either force the player to do something not in his best interest or change his year one approach to 'maybe' get another 2 wins. 

Nothing about Wojo's actions indicate that he's not following a very specific plan. 

[chapman]

Why is it that Calipari can take a team of freshmen to the brink of 40-0 and Wojo can't take care of business in his backyard against, at best, schools whose mascots even a savvy fan has to google.

Top 10 recruiting class ≠ 6 players of Henry's calibur and two more sophomores one notch below

[Spotcheck Billy]

The cupboard was not so bare, if he had kept more of the incoming recruits and did not lose Burton and Dawson at mid-season. Sure we finished the season with 8 scholarship players, but he has a lot of blame in that. He even lost his first recruit who would of helped in practice. I cannot think of his name, but he transferred in and then transferred out before the end of the first semester.

losing Magic Dawson DID hurt

[dgies9156]

I thought this was an interesting comparison. Fastest MU coaches to 20 losses, since 1950.
McGuire 30 games 10-20 turn out to be the best coach
Wojo      33 games 13-20
Crean     39 games 19-20
O'Neal    39 games 19-20
Dukiet    41 games 21-20 turned out to be the worst coach

Thank you. This is the most logical post of this board I have read yet.

The Hillbilly left the cupboard bare. And I mean bare. There was so little it was amazing and a part of what we had left for Marquette West in Iowa City. Nobody should be surprised by the inexperience of our team or our ability to make freshman mistakes.

Someone compared this team to the first or second year of the Hillbilly. The fact is the Hillbilly inherited a better complement of players and was able to heavily recruit jucos. That's not an option here.

Anyone who tries to judge Wojo today is nuts. The expense we have with him is an investment in our team and our future. Give the guy a chance, for crying out loud!

[Pakuni]

losing Magic Dawson DID hurt

Only because of injuries and the lack of depth that already existed prior to his departure. Losing Niv Berkowitz might also have hurt under last year's circumstances.

[tower912]

Third least experienced team in D1 coached by a guy who has now coached 35 games.   How about we put away the pitchforks and take a long view of this?

[Pakuni]

Third least experienced team in D1 coached by a guy who has now coached 35 games.   How about we put away the pitchforks and take a long view of this?

Nonsense.
This is the Internet, where only hot taeks are welcome.

[Lacrosse218]

was that the Loyola transfer?

I think his name was Gabe Levin.  He's at Long Beach St now.

[WarriorInNYC]

I think his name was Gabe Levin.  He's at Long Beach St now.

Yeah, and he basically decided to transfer out when the writing was on the wall that HE was coming here.  Remember that he would have had to sit out all last year to end up backing up HE.

[Blackhat]

I'd give Wojo an extremely long leash. 6-7 years...unless we are still dead last after 5 years.   He has a great pedigree.  I find it hard to believe he can't learn as a coach from errors and/or coach defense better.  Now I would have thought Wojo would have been a great D coach/ perimeter D guy right off the bat but that obviously isn't the case.   

However, he has the character and demeanor of what could be a great coach.  But he needs to accelerate his head coaching acumen or find better assistants.   Some big changes will need to happen if we still suck after 3 years.

[Daniel]

WoJo will be fine. I'm sure he would say he has some learning to do.  Assistant for a long time is very different than you being the head coach.  He recruits well, had a horrible team to inherit last year, and we're 1 and 1 this year.   We have an inexperienced team, and fundamentally, as head coach, an inexperienced coach. 

He will be fine.  Let him get all his recruits on a team for once. No, he is not on any hot seat and won't feel the warmth of one in my opinion.

[willie warrior]

Marquette bought Wojo's stock at $10 a share and it's stayed pretty much the same with a few small ups and downs along the way. Marquette stockholders are fine with it for now because the stock still has a 5-star rating and everyone expects it to reach $100 in the next eight years before the stock splits for Duke.

If Wojo is still at $10 by the end of this season, there's going to be some major grumblings.

well stated.

[Tugg Speedman]

Caveats:

1) I haven't been able to watch either game (living in Europe 2am tips are a tough sell)

2) I only seemed to be inclined to post when the team is down (so I guess I'm trolling?)

3) I actually really really do want Wojo to work out.  He's the "type" of coach we want.

But seriously. This is a top ten recruiting class.  The team had a chance to get some real game (euro as it is) experience in Italy.  Belmont is a quality squad but they were still a mid-major at home that we had forever to prepare for (and their team was a known quantity while we were not - should have been easier for us to scout them than vice-versa).  IUPUI is a 250 cupcake that is the 4th best school in their state that was a missed free-throw away from beating us at home.  Why is it that Calipari can take a team of freshmen to the brink of 40-0 and Wojo can't take care of business in his backyard against, at best, schools whose mascots even a savvy fan has to google.

With the amount of $$ MU spends on ball, we need to be in the NCAA every year.  Or at the very worst with an off-year here and there.  We can't justify that kind of outlay to not being playing meaningful March ball in consecutive years.

Most of the excuses on here for the team's performance to date can be fixed with coaching.  The team lacks discipline: COACHING.  The team lack cohesiveness: COACHING.  Players on the team make poor decisions: COACHING.  Lack of progression (or regression) with returning players: COACHING.  We are paying this guy the equivalent of a dozen full professors.  That's like having an entire new faculty department.  Is he worth it?  He's a nice guy and is building a great program, etc - but if we lose to any of these 300+ cupcakes, or we aren't at least coming within a good sniff of the dance - he's got to be on the hot seat?  Right?

Eh,

This post is exactly why I started the thread about games before thanksgiving.

[dad's couch]

You really can't compare Buzz's first couple of years with Wojo's. Buzz was an internal hire. He knew the returning players (and the most important were Srs and weren't going to transfer). In addition, he had a relationship with several of the incoming recruits so they didn't leave. He basically had a full team with experience. Wojo only has one player from two seasons ago and that is Luke.

The team is and program is fine. Will take a few weeks to work out rotations and roles. A few games in Italy wasn't going to provide that. What it did provide (I hope) was team bonding and some chemistry.

[brandx]

I thought this was an interesting comparison. Fastest MU coaches to 20 losses, since 1950.
McGuire 30 games 10-20 turn out to be the best coach
Wojo      33 games 13-20
Crean     39 games 19-20
O'Neal    39 games 19-20
Dukiet    41 games 21-20 turned out to be the worst coach

To say Wojo is or should be on a leash is asinine.

Inexperience is everything!!

A couple years ago, Calipari had six top 25 HS players including several McD AA's plus a #40 overall recruit. They missed the Big Dance. There were no seniors and only two juniors (who weren't starters).

Was he a bad coach that year? Did he need to learn more on the job? Why was he such a good coach the next couple years?

[Herman Cain]

Caveats:

1) I haven't been able to watch either game (living in Europe 2am tips are a tough sell)

2) I only seemed to be inclined to post when the team is down (so I guess I'm trolling?)

3) I actually really really do want Wojo to work out.  He's the "type" of coach we want.

But seriously. This is a top ten recruiting class.  The team had a chance to get some real game (euro as it is) experience in Italy.  Belmont is a quality squad but they were still a mid-major at home that we had forever to prepare for (and their team was a known quantity while we were not - should have been easier for us to scout them than vice-versa).  IUPUI is a 250 cupcake that is the 4th best school in their state that was a missed free-throw away from beating us at home.  Why is it that Calipari can take a team of freshmen to the brink of 40-0 and Wojo can't take care of business in his backyard against, at best, schools whose mascots even a savvy fan has to google.

With the amount of $$ MU spends on ball, we need to be in the NCAA every year.  Or at the very worst with an off-year here and there.  We can't justify that kind of outlay to not being playing meaningful March ball in consecutive years.

Most of the excuses on here for the team's performance to date can be fixed with coaching.  The team lacks discipline: COACHING.  The team lack cohesiveness: COACHING.  Players on the team make poor decisions: COACHING.  Lack of progression (or regression) with returning players: COACHING.  We are paying this guy the equivalent of a dozen full professors.  That's like having an entire new faculty department.  Is he worth it?  He's a nice guy and is building a great program, etc - but if we lose to any of these 300+ cupcakes, or we aren't at least coming within a good sniff of the dance - he's got to be on the hot seat?  Right?

Thanks for this excellent well thought out post. I completely agree with your analysis.

As far as I am concerned , Wojo should be feeling some pressure to produce this year.  In my book he gets through the non conference season to sort things out with his lineup and then has to deliver at least .500 in conference.  Alternatively, he deserves a mulligan if he beats the Badgers, Iowa and LSU.

We are a program with an impressive history, incredible facilities and resources and there are plenty of good coaches who would love to coach here and could win with the talent  we have today.  He got his job over Cuonzo and Howland who are both legit so I expect him to show some progress.

Yes he is a good recruiter. So was Buzz and So was Crean.  We have a school that kids are interested in attending.