Van Pelt: DFS is sports betting

[jesmu84]

I've enjoyed SVP's solo sportscenter venture so far.

He had an interesting segment tonight where he pointed out the situation regarding DFS/Draftkings/Fanduel, etc. Basically, that it IS sports betting. Currently legal, but betting nonetheless. I tend to agree with him. He went on to talk about the current issues - how he thinks it's coming to a headway with the ridiculous marketing including ESPN, congress "worrying" about the situation, the NCAA saying if any athlete plays DFS they will be suspended for the year.

It's a conversation I don't think we've had yet in the mainstream, at least not from what I have seen.

[🏀]

It's no different than thoroughbred handicapping.

[GGGG]

Really what is the difference between putting money on the line by picking various players based on how they will perform in a game, and putting money on the line by picking a team based on how they will perform in a game?

There is gambling that is purely chance (lottery, slot machines), and there is gambling where skill and knowledge can give you an edge (poker, thoughbred racing, picking against lines).  DFS falls clearly within the latter.

[MU82]

Of course it's gambling.

I didn't think so years ago, but then I became commissioner of a fantasy football league. I asked a co-worker if he wanted a team and he turned me down because he didn't believe in gambling. I was stunned. It's not gambling? And then I realized, well, of course it is. Franchise owners pay X dollars for a chance to win X more dollars. That obviously is gambling.

Doesn't make it wrong or bad or anything. It's just that those opposed to gambling -- such as the NFL -- can't claim it isn't.

[jesmu84]

I'm curious what congress may do with this as it gets bigger and bigger.

Also, I like the analogy to betting on horses. Are NCAA athletes punished if they bet on horses?

[Jay Bee]

It's gambling. I ignored it until a few weeks ago when I noticed on Draft Kings it appears you can do COLLEGE BASKETBALL fantasy games?!

I'm about to be clockin LARGE DOUGH

[rocket surgeon]

i have got a team put together that is one can of whoop-a$$ ready to show me the money this weekend

[jesmu84]

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/10/06/sports/fanduel-draftkings-fantasy-employees-bet-rivals.html

Yowza

[rocket surgeon]

at this point however, i can't figure a scenario where a player would "shave" points in order to cover in certain situations.  if anything, the player would want to perform at an even higher level.  but as i write this, it makes me wonder if some guy named "knuckles" approaches a player and says "play down b/c he(knuckles) may hav a big play on his opposition position player?  is that a realistic thought?

just trying to see where some "funny business" could come into play here.  the refs would have the most pull here as they already do in any sports gambling.

speaking of which, did you guys see that call last night on mnf?  what's with seattle and mnf calls??  how many have they gotten in their favor so far-2012 green bay game..."fail mary"  this one last night where they ruled that seattle player didn't purposely push the ball out of the end zone???  for a safety???  i'm glad detroit lost for our divisions sake, but still...??  something doesn't smell right

[brandx]

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/10/06/sports/fanduel-draftkings-fantasy-employees-bet-rivals.html

Yowza

People complain about gov't regulation - and rightfully so, in some cases - but this is a perfect example of why it is necessary.

People, left to their own devices, will bend any rule ever made to make an extra buck.

[jficke13]

It's gambling. It's stupid. I don't understand why people do it when they objectively have an astronomically small chance joining the ranks of the advertised few that wagered little and won big. It's perfectly legal.

Of course I just described the Powerball lottery.

Description applies to DFS too.

Of course there are going to be business enterprises designed to separate suckers from their dollars. Not sure it should be illegal though.

[Spotcheck Billy]

How much backing do these 2 sites have from NFL owners? I thought I'd heard several including Kraft, are heavily invested in these sites.

[JWags85]

It's gambling. It's stupid. I don't understand why people do it when they objectively have an astronomically small chance joining the ranks of the advertised few that wagered little and won big. It's perfectly legal.

Of course I just described the Powerball lottery.

Description applies to DFS too.

Of course there are going to be business enterprises designed to separate suckers from their dollars. Not sure it should be illegal though.

I hate to call it gambling cause there is no house.  And you put that buzz word on it, and all the government, stuffy shirted puritans come in and want to wipe it out to "protect" people.

As for it being stupid, its stupid if you think you're gonna be "I deposited $35 and have won over $2MM".  But if you enjoy fantasy football, join a couple of $1-$5 leagues each week, its fine.  You're never gonna make a mint, but you'll have fun.  I played last season, got top 20 in a couple $2, 100 some person leagues (I think they paid out around $5-$10), cashed out my original $100 and free rolled for awhile, and it was fine.  I lost interest, but in that aspect I don't see much wrong with it.  I will agree that the aggressive advertising leaving people thinking they're gonna win $1MM as a casual player is a bit deceptive.

[Sylvester78]

There is a house.   The site gets 10% of every game/contest.   A book only get 10% on losers.

I don't care though, sports gambling should be legal and taxed like crazy. People are going to it anyway.   

Look at Potowatomi (sp)     I feel like Bill Gates in there and nobody cares that poor people are literally throwing away good money.  I had to talk some young African American kid out of betting on the field in craps.   He kept doing it despite me telling him there was literally no worse bet in the entire building.

[jesmu84]

How much backing do these 2 sites have from NFL owners? I thought I'd heard several including Kraft, are heavily invested in these sites.

According to twitter, Jones and Kraft are heavily invested. First-floor bar at JerryWorld is sponsored by DraftKings. Further, NFL has decreed that franchises can't get involved with DFS, but owners can.

More importantly, ESPN and Fox have recently put a lot of money in them as well.

[JWags85]

There is a house.   The site gets 10% of every game/contest.   A book only get 10% on losers.

Its like a rake in poker.  Its a tax not you directly losing money to the house.  Thats what I mean, you're not playing against DraftKings like you would against Caesars or MGM, you're playing against other players and Draftkings is taking a commission for facilitating the activity.

[jficke13]

I hate to call it gambling cause there is no house.  And you put that buzz word on it, and all the government, stuffy shirted puritans come in and want to wipe it out to "protect" people.

As for it being stupid, its stupid if you think you're gonna be "I deposited $35 and have won over $2MM".  But if you enjoy fantasy football, join a couple of $1-$5 leagues each week, its fine.  You're never gonna make a mint, but you'll have fun.  I played last season, got top 20 in a couple $2, 100 some person leagues (I think they paid out around $5-$10), cashed out my original $100 and free rolled for awhile, and it was fine.  I lost interest, but in that aspect I don't see much wrong with it.  I will agree that the aggressive advertising leaving people thinking they're gonna win $1MM as a casual player is a bit deceptive.

It's absolutely gambling. It's gambling in the same way that the lottery is gambling.

What you described is just responsible gambling. I have no problem with that. I've enjoyed some recreational games of chance in my day as well.

All that being said, if it's going to survive, they have to ensure somehow that the playing field isn't tilted by "insider" betting in some way. It kind of reminds me of the old story of the McDonald's Monopoly game where "insiders" snagged all of the winning pieces before they got put into the tiller to be spit out to normal consumers.

[Benny B]

There is a house.   The site gets 10% of every game/contest.   A book only get 10% on losers.

I don't care though, sports gambling should be legal and taxed like crazy. People are going to it anyway.   

Look at Potowatomi (sp)     I feel like Bill Gates in there and nobody cares that poor people are literally throwing away good money.  I had to talk some young African American kid out of betting on the field in craps.   He kept doing it despite me telling him there was literally no worse bet in the entire building.

I've seen people betting the field so often that I've just stopped saying anything.  The last time I said something was to tell someone to stop playing the Big 6/8 only to be told to "shut the hell up."

Though I'm pretty certain the field is several points better than the hard and NEC bets... unless the 2/12 pays 3:1 on the field, which would make it the best bet in the casino (along with free odds).

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

I've seen people betting the field so often that I've just stopped saying anything.  The last time I said something was to tell someone to stop playing the Big 6/8 only to be told to "shut the hell up."

Though I'm pretty certain the field is several points better than the hard and NEC bets... unless the 2/12 pays 3:1 on the field, which would make it the best bet in the casino (along with free odds).

Love craps. I just stick to the pass line and im golden. No better bet in Vegas. (Along with playing blackjack the correct way)

[Benny B]

Love craps. I just stick to the pass line and im golden. No better bet in Vegas. (Along with playing blackjack the correct way)

Even playing blackjack "by the book" still gives the house a 0.50% edge under the most liberal Vegas rules (double deck, late surrender, all 17's, split 3, double any, etc.).  Playing the pass line alone is a 1.41% edge to the house, though if you take max odds, even a 3-4-5x table drops the edge to 0.37%... 10x odds is about 0.18%... and if you have the cajones (and the bankroll), 100x odds drops the house edge to 0.021%.

By comparison, hardways edges are about 9% on the 6/8 and 11% on the 4/10, Place 6/8 is 1.5%, Place 5/9 is 4.0%, and Place 4/10 is 6.67%.

Best bet in the casino: Don't Pass with 100x odds... 0.014% house edge.  Although, don't expect to make any friends or get comp'd.

[JWags85]

I've seen people betting the field so often that I've just stopped saying anything.  The last time I said something was to tell someone to stop playing the Big 6/8 only to be told to "shut the hell up."

Though I'm pretty certain the field is several points better than the hard and NEC bets... unless the 2/12 pays 3:1 on the field, which would make it the best bet in the casino (along with free odds).

I can't believe you even say anything.  Part of the beauty of craps for me is staying afloat as people get cleaned out.  Nothing like seeing people loudly and confidently toss $20+ on 6 and 8 and get cleaned out on 2-3 quick crap out rolls.  I play conservative-ish, pass line with odds, a come bet or two, with hefty odds, if the roll is going well.  Taught it to my friends who were traditionally 6-8 players and while you miss out on some extended center rolls, they were pleasantly surprised how long you can stay afloat, even up, at a choppy table if you hit a point or come bet every roll or two.  Meanwhile chips are flying everywhere on horn highs, hard ways, world bets, and none of them are hitting.

[jesmu84]

I can't believe you even say anything.  Part of the beauty of craps for me is staying afloat as people get cleaned out.  Nothing like seeing people loudly and confidently toss $20+ on 6 and 8 and get cleaned out on 2-3 quick crap out rolls.  I play conservative-ish, pass line with odds, a come bet or two, with hefty odds, if the roll is going well.  Taught it to my friends who were traditionally 6-8 players and while you miss out on some extended center rolls, they were pleasantly surprised how long you can stay afloat, even up, at a choppy table if you hit a point or come bet every roll or two.  Meanwhile chips are flying everywhere on horn highs, hard ways, world bets, and none of them are hitting.

I understood 0% of that

[jesmu84]

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/its-time-to-stop-being-stupid-about-sports-gambling/