Tom Brady beats the NFL

[Tugg Speedman]

Well I have.  Twice. 

Now tell me, in the wake of this ruling, what specific rule within the CBA did Rodgers violate?

He admitted to breaking the ball inflation rule.

[GGGG]

He admitted to breaking the ball inflation rule.

The ball inflation rule isn't part of the CBA.  Furthermore he doesn't inflate the footballs, nor does he (or any members of the Packer's staff) inflate them (or deflate them) after they pass inspection by the referees.

[MUsoxfan]

The ball inflation rule isn't part of the CBA.  Furthermore he doesn't inflate the footballs, nor does he (or any members of the Packer's staff) inflate them (or deflate them) after they pass inspection by the referees.

Exactly

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

The ball inflation rule isn't part of the CBA.  Furthermore he doesn't inflate the footballs, nor does he (or any members of the Packer's staff) inflate them (or deflate them) after they pass inspection by the referees.

I don't think anyone is defending Brady here.... or at least I'm not. But this isn't unprecedented. The Vikings were modifying balls with a header post-inspection.

http://espn.go.com/blog/minnesota-vikings/post/_/id/11218/nfl-aware-of-game-ball-incident-during-panthers-vikings

As both teams dealt with the freezing temperatures, Fox cameras showed sideline attendants using heaters to warm up game balls, which is against league rules. NFL vice president of officiating Dean Blandino said Monday morning on NFL Network that officials warned both the Vikings and Panthers not to heat up the balls during Sunday's game, and would remind teams this week not to heat game balls.

"You can't do anything with the footballs in terms of any artificial, whether you're heating them up, whether it's a regular game ball or kicking ball, you can't do anything to the football," Blandino said. "So that was noticed during the game, both teams were made aware of it during the game and we will certainly remind the clubs as we get into more cold weather games that you can't do anything with the football in terms of heating them up with those sideline heaters."

That seems to be in line with an appropriate response to a clear attempt and action to modify the balls post-inspection. They tried to SUSPEND BRADY 4 GAMES.... what?

[Tugg Speedman]

The ball inflation rule isn't part of the CBA.  Furthermore he doesn't inflate the footballs, nor does he (or any members of the Packer's staff) inflate them (or deflate them) after they pass inspection by the referees.

It's an NFL rule.

[brandx]

He admitted to over-inflating his footballs, above the legal limit (as that is the way he likes them) and submitting them for inspection and hoping they would slip through.

As I said, he has never done what what Brady is accused of doing. Period.

He has never said or intimated that he changed or tried to change the pressure in balls after they were inspected by the NFL.

You'll need to make up a different story next time.

[CTWarrior]

It's an NFL rule.

I have no dog in this fight, but there's a big difference between altering the footballs before they are inspected and after they are inspected.  In the former case you give the NFL the option of determining whether or not the footballs are legal.  In the latter case you are not.

Again, I don't know for sure, but I think Brady was complicit in the deflation, but the proposed NFL penalty was just way too excessive.  I'm a Jets fan and thus dislike Brady and the Pats, so that may color my opinion of his guilt.

[GGGG]

It's an NFL rule.

It is an NFL rule regarding equipment.  There is nothing in the CBA that mentions punishment for equipment violations that go beyond something enforced during a game.

That is why Brady was suspended under the "conduct detrimental" crap.  There was nothing else that applied.  And the judge saw through the leagues bullsh*t.

[mr.MUskie]

Feel bad for Garoppolo. Had a chance to show what he's got. BTW, I think checkin' balls at halftime is a good thing, ai na?

Gotta make sure your cup didn't slip out of place.

[Tugg Speedman]

It is an NFL rule regarding equipment.  There is nothing in the CBA that mentions punishment for equipment violations that go beyond something enforced during a game.

That is why Brady was suspended under the "conduct detrimental" crap.  There was nothing else that applied.  And the judge saw through the leagues bullsh*t.

Correct ...

Just like they also threw out Adrian Peterson and Ray Rice's suspensions.

Unless it is specifically stated in the CBA, the commissioner cannot do anything.  So other than performance enhancing drug violations, the commissioner cannot do much else.

[mu03eng]

He admitted to breaking the ball inflation rule.

He didn't break any rules.  He inflated the balls and then the officials inspect them to make sure than are within the allowed measurement band.  If the official thought they were in spec and they weren't, that's on the official.  If they were found to be out of spec the official would bring them into spec.  Brady is accused of conspiring to change the balls after inspection which has nothing to do with what a 3rd party said that Rodgers said. 

And what he was saying was that he over inflates so that when they test the bring them down to the league maximum.

Here's an analogy: Let's pretend every bar has a person that is mandated by law to administer a breathalyzer to anyone leaving the bar.  If you are below the limit you are allowed to drive your car.  If you are above the limit you have to wait until you are below to drive your car.

If I overdrink, but the legally mandated checker doesn't test me correctly, and I drive over the limit, is that my fault?

In this analogy, Brady is accused of having a drink outside of the bar after being tested and then pulled over as intoxicated.


Not a perfect analogy but I think it is a reasonable representation.

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

As I said, he has never done what what Brady is accused of doing. Period.

He has never said or intimated that he changed or tried to change the pressure in balls after they were inspected by the NFL.

You'll need to make up a different story next time.

See the Vikings example above.

Either way, the ball boys who tampered with the equipment have been fired.

[Pakuni]

He didn't break any rules.  He inflated the balls and then the officials inspect them to make sure than are within the allowed measurement band.  If the official thought they were in spec and they weren't, that's on the official.  If they were found to be out of spec the official would bring them into spec.  Brady is accused of conspiring to change the balls after inspection which has nothing to do with what a 3rd party said that Rodgers said. 

And what he was saying was that he over inflates so that when they test the bring them down to the league maximum.

Here's an analogy: Let's pretend every bar has a person that is mandated by law to administer a breathalyzer to anyone leaving the bar.  If you are below the limit you are allowed to drive your car.  If you are above the limit you have to wait until you are below to drive your car.

If I overdrink, but the legally mandated checker doesn't test me correctly, and I drive over the limit, is that my fault?

In this analogy, Brady is accused of having a drink outside of the bar after being tested and then pulled over as intoxicated.


Not a perfect analogy but I think it is a reasonable representation.

Isn't your argument here essentially "Rodgers didn't get caught, ergo he didn't cheat?"
If he knowingly inflated balls beyond what the rules allow, he broke the rules. It doesn't matter if the ref discovered the violation or not. A pass interference penalty that the ref missed is still pass  interference, right?

To use your drinking and driving example, if I go slam 12 beers in 90 minutes, jump in my car and somehow manage to get home safely, would you say I didn't drive under the influence? I mean, after all, the police didn't catch me, so it's on them, right?

For what it's worth, I don't care whether Rodgers or Brady messed with the balls or not.

[mu03eng]

Isn't your argument here essentially "Rodgers didn't get caught, ergo he didn't cheat?"
If he knowingly inflated balls beyond what the rules allow, he broke the rules. It doesn't matter if the ref discovered the violation or not. A pass interference penalty that the ref missed is still pass  interference, right?

Now we're getting into a realm of intent.  If I'm doing something to make sure it's at the max allowable, am I intending to break the rules?  What if he accidentally over inflates the ball, and they identify it, should he be punished?

To use your drinking and driving example, if I go slam 12 beers in 90 minutes, jump in my car and somehow manage to get home safely, would you say I didn't drive under the influence? I mean, after all, the police didn't catch me, so it's on them, right?

Admittedly this is exactly why the analogy doesn't work because of life and death nature of the choice. 

As far as rules, if an agency is enforcing them, they have the obligation to make sure everyone complies.  If they don't want anyone accidentally skating by then they should have punishment for the ball even testing above/below limit at check in.  Instead, check-in simply makes sure it's in compliance, if not it makes it compliant.

[Pakuni]

Now we're getting into a realm of intent.  If I'm doing something to make sure it's at the max allowable, am I intending to break the rules?  What if he accidentally over inflates the ball, and they identify it, should he be punished?

This is why I used the phrase "If he knowingly inflated balls beyond what the rules allow." So, we're not talking about an accidental over-inflation.
Here's what Rodgers reportedly said:
"‘I like to push the limit to how much air we can put in the football, even go over what they allow you to do and see if the officials take air out of it,"
So, he's admitting that he is inflating the ball beyond what the rules allow. thus, he's breaking the rules.
Again, this doesn't bother me. I think he and Brady are doing what QBs have been doing for decades.

As far as rules, if an agency is enforcing them, they have the obligation to make sure everyone complies.  If they don't want anyone accidentally skating by then they should have punishment for the ball even testing above/below limit at check in.  Instead, check-in simply makes sure it's in compliance, if not it makes it compliant.

But this is a separate argument. Whether or not a rule is broken isn't dependent on the level of effort that goes into enforcing the rule.

[brandx]

Isn't your argument here essentially "Rodgers didn't get caught, ergo he didn't cheat?"

There was nothing to catch.

I don't get why (not referring to you) that is hard to understand. Teams can set the air however they want with the footballs. The officials then check and make sure they comply with the rules. If not,  they correct it.

So there was never anything to get caught at.

[#UnleashSean]

Brady is a shoo-in.    First ballot.    This will impact his legacy far less than Vicodin addiction and sexting affected Favre's legacy.

Neither of those have anything to do with football though. I hate it when people bring in personal life issues with sporting legacy's. Babe Ruth was a womanizing drunk, but he hit the crap out the baseball. Guess which one I care about when I'm talking about baseball.

[GGGG]

Neither of those have anything to do with football though. I hate it when people bring in personal life issues with sporting legacy's. Babe Ruth was a womanizing drunk, but he hit the crap out the baseball. Guess which one I care about when I'm talking about baseball.

There is no proof he did anything.  And in many eyes this is going to make him look like a martyr. 

First ballot no question.

[Pakuni]

Neither of those have anything to do with football though. I hate it when people bring in personal life issues with sporting legacy's. Babe Ruth was a womanizing drunk, but he hit the crap out the baseball. Guess which one I care about when I'm talking about baseball.

Even if guilty, Brady's violation here is the football equivalent of George Brett getting busted for using too much pine tar on his bat.
Brett, who was less accomplished in his sport, was a first-ballot hall of famer with 98.1 percent of the vote.

[brandx]

Neither of those have anything to do with football though. I hate it when people bring in personal life issues with sporting legacy's. Babe Ruth was a womanizing drunk, but he hit the crap out the baseball. Guess which one I care about when I'm talking about baseball.

I don't know that I agree. Could Mickey Mantle have played if he wasn't drunk every day? Did he or Ruth or hundreds of other players, especially in earlier eras, actually play better because they drank and used that to deal with the daily pressures? I don't know the answer, so i'm just speculating.

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

I think it's a reach to call this "cheating." This is cheating like holding is cheating.

[Tugg Speedman]

He didn't break any rules.  He inflated the balls and then the officials inspect them to make sure than are within the allowed measurement band.  If the official thought they were in spec and they weren't, that's on the official.  If they were found to be out of spec the official would bring them into spec.  Brady is accused of conspiring to change the balls after inspection which has nothing to do with what a 3rd party said that Rodgers said. 

And what he was saying was that he over inflates so that when they test the bring them down to the league maximum.

Here's an analogy: Let's pretend every bar has a person that is mandated by law to administer a breathalyzer to anyone leaving the bar.  If you are below the limit you are allowed to drive your car.  If you are above the limit you have to wait until you are below to drive your car.

If I overdrink, but the legally mandated checker doesn't test me correctly, and I drive over the limit, is that my fault?

In this analogy, Brady is accused of having a drink outside of the bar after being tested and then pulled over as intoxicated.


Not a perfect analogy but I think it is a reasonable representation.

A better analogy is the global financial crisis.  All the banks were very open about what they were doing.  They knew they were on the line and maybe a little over it.  When the regulators looked, they made no effort to conceal what they were doing betting they would allow it.

So, no bank ever cheated, no one is too blame and you just shrug your shoulders and say "that's the way it is" when millions lost their jobs.

Sure the stakes were higher but the analogy is the same.

[GGGG]

A better analogy is the global financial crisis.  All the banks were very open about what they were doing.  They knew they were on the line and maybe a little over it.  When the regulators looked, they made no effort to conceal what they were doing betting they would allow it.

So, no bank ever cheated, no one is too blame and you just shrug your shoulders and say "that's the way it is" when millions lost their jobs.

Sure the stakes were higher but the analogy is the same.

Yes.  Aaron Rodgers stating that he likes to play with over-inflated footballs is just like the global financial crisis.

[Tugg Speedman]

Yes.  Aaron Rodgers stating that he likes to play with over-inflated footballs is just like the global financial crisis.

... and you think it is like drunk driving, which was the other example?

[GGGG]

... and you think it is like drunk driving, which was the other example?

Actually I said it was like speeding.