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Author Topic: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'  (Read 15129 times)

slingkong

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #50 on: September 03, 2015, 08:58:49 AM »
It likely would've been a better game than Hampton though and actually would belong there having done the work all year.

But they didn't do the work all year, and that's the point. They stunk against actual tourney teams, as pointed out above, and lost their conference tourney. So at best they did slightly better work for part of the year. And it still wouldn't have mattered because it's unlikely that they would have done any better in the tourney.


Galway Eagle

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #51 on: September 03, 2015, 09:05:59 AM »
But they didn't do the work all year, and that's the point. They stunk against actual tourney teams, as pointed out above, and lost their conference tourney. So at best they did slightly better work for part of the year. And it still wouldn't have mattered because it's unlikely that they would have done any better in the tourney.

Dude occasionally teams drop big games. The year we won the BE championship we lost to UWGB. Does that mean that UWGB was better than us? What if that type of pitiful performance were to happen in the conference tournament in a one bid league? The 09-10 year we don't make the tournament without winning two games in the BE tournament, what if we came out looking like we did against depaul that year? It happens but we get some leeway because we can get at large bids, the majority of teams in the NCAA don't. 
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GGGG

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #52 on: September 03, 2015, 09:12:53 AM »
Actually I think Football would be a good thing for MU. Have a team in the Pioneer Football League  which is no scholarships. Would be a lot of fun.  The administration made a bad decision in 1960. Needs to be reversed.


Non-scholarship D1 football is useless.  Plus it gets you no closer to a P5 conference membership, so really what is the point?  Because it's "a lot of fun?"

GGGG

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #53 on: September 03, 2015, 09:14:12 AM »
Dude occasionally teams drop big games. The year we won the BE championship we lost to UWGB. Does that mean that UWGB was better than us? What if that type of pitiful performance were to happen in the conference tournament in a one bid league? The 09-10 year we don't make the tournament without winning two games in the BE tournament, what if we came out looking like we did against depaul that year? It happens but we get some leeway because we can get at large bids, the majority of teams in the NCAA don't. 


Even if the regular season champ is marginally better, it doesn't really make that much of a difference.  It really is only marginal.

Plus the conferences are free to do this now.  But they don't.  Why do you suppose that is?

muwarrior69

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #54 on: September 03, 2015, 09:35:01 AM »
I just don't understand why the powers that be just share the TV contract terms with these knuckleheads.  The P5 cannot go on their own and take all the money with them from the basketball tournament.  The contract is written in such a way that nothing is going to happen at the earliest until the next deal, which is well into the next decade.

How do you think this will affect athletic scholarships for D1 basketball once this contract expires.

GGGG

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #55 on: September 03, 2015, 09:36:50 AM »
I just don't understand why the powers that be just share the TV contract terms with these knuckleheads.  The P5 cannot go on their own and take all the money with them from the basketball tournament.  The contract is written in such a way that nothing is going to happen at the earliest until the next deal, which is well into the next decade.


The P5 can leave the NCAA and form their own tournament and contract out its rights however.  You think CBS is gonna pay that amount of money "well into the next decade" for a tournament that doesn't include the P5 conferences?

Galway Eagle

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #56 on: September 03, 2015, 10:33:19 AM »

Even if the regular season champ is marginally better, it doesn't really make that much of a difference.  It really is only marginal.

Plus the conferences are free to do this now.  But they don't.  Why do you suppose that is?

How many other versions of Lehigh over Duke, Norfolk State over Missouri, Florida Gulf Coast over Georgetown or Ohio over Georgetown, Mecer over Duke, Georgia State over Baylor, have we missed out on because that little margin could've provided a better match up? Better coaching? More experienced players? There's no way you're gonna tell me you'd rather watch 1, 2 and 3 seeds demolish wayyy inferior teams every year than than at least see the true best team from that conference give them a fighting chance. 
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WarriorInNYC

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #57 on: September 03, 2015, 10:52:05 AM »
How many other versions of Lehigh over Duke, Norfolk State over Missouri, Florida Gulf Coast over Georgetown or Ohio over Georgetown, Mecer over Duke, Georgia State over Baylor, have we missed out on because that little margin could've provided a better match up? Better coaching? More experienced players? There's no way you're gonna tell me you'd rather watch 1, 2 and 3 seeds demolish wayyy inferior teams every year than than at least see the true best team from that conference give them a fighting chance.

How many other versions?  Probably a few but not many.

Would I rather watch the team that performs best over the regular season play in the NCAA tournament, probably.  However, as others have noted before, the teams that win the tournament are playing hot at that time, so I think there is a lot to that.

And most importantly, I am willing to give up watching marginally better teams in the NCAA for maybe 8-10 conferences (usually the regular season champ wins the conference tournament), in order to watch 21 one-bid league's conference tournaments actually be exciting.

If the regular season champ moved on to the NCAA, I would have 0 interest in watching any of the smaller conference's tournaments.

GGGG

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #58 on: September 03, 2015, 10:53:05 AM »
How many other versions of Lehigh over Duke, Norfolk State over Missouri, Florida Gulf Coast over Georgetown or Ohio over Georgetown, Mecer over Duke, Georgia State over Baylor, have we missed out on because that little margin could've provided a better match up?

Very few.  And really, even if I conceded that was the case, I don't really care.  I like some upsets.  They are fun on some level.  But really when it gets down to the S16 or E8, I just want good basketball teams and good basketball games.  Not once have I said, "man, I love the NCAA tournament and all, but I would love it even more if a couple more low major teams won some games."

And again, the conferences must realize this too.

Galway Eagle

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #59 on: September 03, 2015, 11:03:55 AM »
Very few.  And really, even if I conceded that was the case, I don't really care.  I like some upsets.  They are fun on some level.  But really when it gets down to the S16 or E8, I just want good basketball teams and good basketball games.  Not once have I said, "man, I love the NCAA tournament and all, but I would love it even more if a couple more low major teams won some games."

And again, the conferences must realize this too.

Then we don't watch the tournament with the same intent. I like to see the best teams in their conferences playing great games.  I completely agree about the sweet 16 or elite 8, though I'd be happier to see LA tech take out a very overrated UCLA team than a hot UAB team get beat by them. 

WarriorinNYC, I'd give the tournament champ the auto bid to the NIT, or runner up if it's the Regular season champ. I understand it's not as exciting but that's why I'm saying what I'd prefer without making any mention of money. 
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WarriorInNYC

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #60 on: September 03, 2015, 11:12:32 AM »
WarriorinNYC, I'd give the tournament champ the auto bid to the NIT, or runner up if it's the Regular season champ. I understand it's not as exciting but that's why I'm saying what I'd prefer without making any mention of money.

Sure, that may be nice.  But again, I sure as hell wouldn't watch their conference tournaments.  Loses almost all of the excitement in my book.

WarriorInNYC

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #61 on: September 03, 2015, 11:14:18 AM »
Very few.  And really, even if I conceded that was the case, I don't really care.  I like some upsets.  They are fun on some level.  But really when it gets down to the S16 or E8, I just want good basketball teams and good basketball games.  Not once have I said, "man, I love the NCAA tournament and all, but I would love it even more if a couple more low major teams won some games."

And again, the conferences must realize this too.

Also, how many of those upsets occurred because a team that was running hot through their conference tournament extended that for a game or two in the NCAAs?  As opposed to another mediocre team that had a good regular season and lost their first conference tournament game, sat around for a while, then went up against a team from a major conference.

Atticus

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #62 on: September 03, 2015, 11:42:15 AM »


Bill Gates could give MU a billion dollars to start a football team and not only would it not be successful, but it would drag down our basketball program like Uconn is dragging down their basketball program.



Funny.

NC's in 99, 04, 11, 14. That's pretty good.

One could argue that UConn is the last non-football school to win a NC in basketball. Of course, only the 99 championship would count. Others would argue that the school already made the investment to move up in football....so maybe 99 doesnt count.

If football is such a huge drag on schools, why dont non-football schools win more often in basketball? 1985?

UConn also got their second Top 40 commitment in the 2016 class. If they didnt play football, maybe they would have three by now?  :o

The Equalizer

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #63 on: September 03, 2015, 12:03:38 PM »
Funny.

NC's in 99, 04, 11, 14. That's pretty good.

One could argue that UConn is the last non-football school to win a NC in basketball. Of course, only the 99 championship would count. Others would argue that the school already made the investment to move up in football....so maybe 99 doesnt count.

If football is such a huge drag on schools, why dont non-football schools win more often in basketball? 1985?

UConn also got their second Top 40 commitment in the 2016 class. If they didnt play football, maybe they would have three by now?  :o

And don't those Top 40 recruits (and a 3rd in the top 100) know that UConn has been permanently damaged by playing in a league with UCF and East Carolina and Tulane?

GooooMarquette

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #64 on: September 03, 2015, 12:25:41 PM »

Even if the regular season champ is marginally better, it doesn't really make that much of a difference.  It really is only marginal.

Plus the conferences are free to do this now.  But they don't.  Why do you suppose that is?

A$ long as conferece$ decide and make money off conference tournament$, I $eriou$ly doubt we'll $ee change$.

NotAnAlum

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #65 on: September 03, 2015, 12:26:17 PM »
Then we don't watch the tournament with the same intent. I like to see the best teams in their conferences playing great games.  I completely agree about the sweet 16 or elite 8, though I'd be happier to see LA tech take out a very overrated UCLA team than a hot UAB team get beat by them. 

WarriorinNYC, I'd give the tournament champ the auto bid to the NIT, or runner up if it's the Regular season champ. I understand it's not as exciting but that's why I'm saying what I'd prefer without making any mention of money.

Trust me.  The coaches who filled out this survey and the league officials who constantly bring this up are not talking about sending the regular season champ INSTEAD OF the conference tournament winner.  They are talking about AND, BOTH.  So in your watching the tournament for the best games "drive" if this goes through you will see more Coastal Carolina as 9-12 seeds with more Top Conference At Large bids eliminated.  So instead of Tenn playing Georgia in the 8-9 or 7-10 game it will be Georgia playing Coastal Carolina and Tenn will be out of the tournament.
Its fine the way it is.  You have just enough mid and low majors to make it interesting AND you have enough teams that the high majors that are left out don't have a big beef that they were good enough that they could have reached the E8 or F4.

dgies9156

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #66 on: September 03, 2015, 01:57:31 PM »
How many private urban schools have successful high D1 football programs?  I count two ... USC and "The U."  Both have been around 100 years and both are in nice weather.

Bill Gates could give MU a billion dollars to start a football team...
I cannot think of one scenario where this is a good idea.

If we received a generous donation from Bill and Melinda to build a football program, it would take a lot more than $1 billion to get into a Power 5 conference.

Consider that:
  1) Marquette would need a stadium. Figure between 60,000 and 80,000 seats with contingency to go to between 90,000 and 100,000 (the "Big House", Neyland Stadium, Bryant-Denney Stadium etc.). Figure at least $700 million for the stadium, including land, infrastructure, construction etc. Not to mention the $100 million Marquette will spend in legal costs fighting the city, county and state on location, infrastructure and noise.

  2) Marquette would need a practice facility and football center. Figure another $200 million all-in for these items.

  3) Marquette would need an athletic dorm. McCormick Hall just won't do. Figure we either buy the Pfister Hotel or we build an Athletic Dorm capable of housing an elite football team. Figure $50 million at least.

  4) A high Division 1 level coaching staff would probably cost $10.0 million per year. Plus administrative and operational support.

By my math, we've spent the billion and we've yet to have a football player on campus. Better ask for $2 billion from Bill and Melinda. And then, we have a record in the BIG or the ACC for most of existing Scoopers' lifetimes that would make Vanderbilt look like the University of Alabama or The Ohio State University. And, we will be fourth-rate in Wisconsin behind the Packers, nobody and Becky "Choke" Badger.

Benny B

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #67 on: September 03, 2015, 02:09:36 PM »
This is stupid.

What makes March Madness so magical is one simple concept:

When conference tournaments start, any of 335 (of the 350 D-I) teams can win the tournament.  All you need to do is keep winning.  The same holds true for most state HS tournaments across the nation. 

This simple, fundamental concept what sets HS and college basketball aside from just about every other organized sport in the amateur and professional ranks... when the tourney starts, everyone is in and anyone can win.

Anyone advocating that regular season champs should get an auto-bid should know that their position is basically the NIT of arguments on the matter... it certainly held its own back in the day, but it's irrelevant now.
Wow, I'm very concerned for Benny.  Being able to mimic Myron Medcalf's writing so closely implies an oncoming case of dementia.

dgies9156

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #68 on: September 03, 2015, 02:53:23 PM »
This is stupid.

What makes March Madness so magical is one simple concept:

When conference tournaments start, any of 335 (of the 350 D-I) teams can win the tournament.  All you need to do is keep winning.  The same holds true for most state HS tournaments across the nation. 

This simple, fundamental concept what sets HS and college basketball aside from just about every other organized sport in the amateur and professional ranks... when the tourney starts, everyone is in and anyone can win.

Anyone advocating that regular season champs should get an auto-bid should know that their position is basically the NIT of arguments on the matter... it certainly held its own back in the day, but it's irrelevant now.

Benny is sooooooo right on this one.

NotAnAlum

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #69 on: September 03, 2015, 04:51:20 PM »
One other aspect that hasn't been raised.
If you went down the road of allowing both the regular season champ and the tournament champ in wouldn't there be a powerful incentive in the low majors to "make sure" that the regular season champ DIDN'T win the Conference Championship.  They could give the conference 2 bids instead of one and the money for an additional bid each year would be huge for the low majors.  Remember these are the same teams that play 10 buy games in non con each year for the money.  The conference tournaments are very close.  A foul here or a non call there could change the outcome and surprise, the regular season winner gets knocked out.  Its not like the extra win is going to mean much in seeding.  These guys are all getting 16 and 15 seeds anyway.

Galway Eagle

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #70 on: September 03, 2015, 05:11:15 PM »
Ok all I'm saying is specifically relating to ODU and LA Tech I thought should've been in. Great records, kicked butt all year, great RPI and chose the wrong nights to drop a deuce. I'm also saying that in the very least there should be some type of minimum win requirement to get in because I'm sick of seeing the hamptons of the world get in with .500 records or more annoyingly one of these teams

http://www.totalprosports.com/2013/03/11/worst-ncaa-tournament-teams-of-all-time/#3
« Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 05:13:52 PM by BagpipingBoxer »
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WarriorInNYC

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #71 on: September 04, 2015, 12:17:21 PM »
Ok all I'm saying is specifically relating to ODU and LA Tech I thought should've been in. Great records, kicked butt all year, great RPI and chose the wrong nights to drop a deuce. I'm also saying that in the very least there should be some type of minimum win requirement to get in because I'm sick of seeing the hamptons of the world get in with .500 records or more annoyingly one of these teams

http://www.totalprosports.com/2013/03/11/worst-ncaa-tournament-teams-of-all-time/#3

But ODU wouldn't have gotten in as they didn't win their conference in the regular season.

MarquetteDano

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #72 on: September 04, 2015, 12:56:56 PM »
I used to be in the camp of letting in the reg season conf winner too. Then they made the rule that the winner gets an auto bid to the NIT which I think is a fair compromise.

And MU fans have sacrificed for this as it cost us an NIT bid a few years ago.

Benny B

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #73 on: September 04, 2015, 02:05:32 PM »
And MU fans have sacrificed for this as it cost us an NIT bid a few years ago.

FIFY
Wow, I'm very concerned for Benny.  Being able to mimic Myron Medcalf's writing so closely implies an oncoming case of dementia.

source?

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #74 on: September 04, 2015, 08:55:47 PM »
I have a thought, what if we had an impartial group of people use the eye test and whatever other criteria they saw fit to decide the number one and number two teams each year? They could then match them up as a one-off, so we guarantee that one of the two best teams wins the championship. We could have similarly ranked teams matched up for guaranteed exciting games. We could call it the Basketball Championship Series, or BCS for short. That way we make sure that none of these garbage sub .500 teams even have a shot. We don't want these upstart teams getting too big for their britches, after all.


(sorry Boxer, meant as a good-natured joke)
« Last Edit: September 04, 2015, 08:58:12 PM by source? »