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Author Topic: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'  (Read 15135 times)

Herman Cain

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2015, 01:37:29 PM »
The whole charm of the NCAA tourney is  that it has a format that enables the underdogs who are hot to make a tourney run. A great script for TV viewership  and fan participation. I don't see any economic reason for it to change.

Regular Season conference champs who lose in their league tournament and don't get an at large bid are automatically qualified for the NIT

I really like our double round robin schedule in the Big East makes for a meaningful regular season and build rivalries. We are in a good place.
Winning is overrated. The only time it is really important is in surgery and war.
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WarriorInNYC

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2015, 01:42:56 PM »
So I ran through those conferences which the regular season winner was different than the tournament winner and  here is what I got ignoring the major conferences where the tourney winner would've received an at-large anyways:

Big South:  We would have had 23-10 High Point instead of 24-10 Coastal Carolina
Big West:  We would have had 25-7 UC Davis instead of 21-13 UC Irvine
C USA:  We would have had 27-9 Louisana Tech instead of 20-16 UAB who went on to beat Iowa State
MAAC:  We would have had 26-9 Iona instead of 19-14 Manhattan
MEAC: We would had had 25-8 North Carolina Central instead of 16-16 Hampton
Mountain West:  We would have had an extra at-large bid instead of 25-10 Wyoming (San Diego St won the regular season)
Northeast:  We would have had 23-12 St. Francis instead of 20-15 Robert Morris
Ohio Valley:  We would have had 29-6 Murray State instead of 22-11 Belmont
Patriot League:  We would have had 19-15 Bucknell instead of 20-13 Lafayette

Save for Murray State over Belmont and an additional at-large bid over Wyoming, I highly doubt there would have been more excitement had the regular season winners been included.  Additionally, we would have lost on the excitement that was UAB upsetting Iowa State.

Additionally, we would have lost ALL of the excitement from the 21 other conference tournaments which received only 1 bid.

GGGG

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2015, 01:51:53 PM »
The whole charm of the NCAA tourney is  that it has a format that enables the underdogs who are hot to make a tourney run. A great script for TV viewership  and fan participation. I don't see any economic reason for it to change.


Except the highest rated games are those involving top level teams.  Everyone likes the ideas of the Cinderellas, just that comparatively fewer people watch them when they play next.

dgies9156

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2015, 01:55:34 PM »
The first weekend of the NCAA tournament is among the best weekends in sports.

64 schools show up. Their alumni base and students, to a greater or lesser extent, are in the arena. The atmosphere is electric. I'll never forget the UCSB Gauchos (I think) at Milwaukee.

The television aura also is electric. Where else are you going to get Charles Barkley talking about the nuances of Coastal Carolina's defense? Or Murray State? It's a great time.

Over the years, I've been to tournament games in Knoxville (twice, once at Stokley Athletic Center to watch a Choneless Warriors led by Larry McNeill and Bob lackey beat up on Miami of Ohio and once against Duke at Thompson-Bolling Arena), Nashville (lost to Indiana and Bobby Knight), Milwaukee (not involving us), Indianapolis (the Holy Cross game and the infamous Steve Novak game), Minneapolis (DWade's greatest moment), Winston-Salem (when Tom Crean had his head handed to him by his mentor), Cleveland (when we beat Syracuse), St. Louis (when DWade lost to Tulsa -- yuck) and probably a couple of places I don't remember.

As the Hillbilly used to say, "why mess with happy?" Especially when Happy is kicking off massive cash flow.

Galway Eagle

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #29 on: September 02, 2015, 02:30:46 PM »
So I ran through those conferences which the regular season winner was different than the tournament winner and  here is what I got ignoring the major conferences where the tourney winner would've received an at-large anyways:

Big South:  We would have had 23-10 High Point instead of 24-10 Coastal Carolina
Big West:  We would have had 25-7 UC Davis instead of 21-13 UC Irvine
C USA:  We would have had 27-9 Louisana Tech instead of 20-16 UAB who went on to beat Iowa State
MAAC:  We would have had 26-9 Iona instead of 19-14 Manhattan
MEAC: We would had had 25-8 North Carolina Central instead of 16-16 Hampton
Mountain West:  We would have had an extra at-large bid instead of 25-10 Wyoming (San Diego St won the regular season)
Northeast:  We would have had 23-12 St. Francis instead of 20-15 Robert Morris
Ohio Valley:  We would have had 29-6 Murray State instead of 22-11 Belmont
Patriot League:  We would have had 19-15 Bucknell instead of 20-13 Lafayette

Save for Murray State over Belmont and an additional at-large bid over Wyoming, I highly doubt there would have been more excitement had the regular season winners been included.  Additionally, we would have lost on the excitement that was UAB upsetting Iowa State.

Additionally, we would have lost ALL of the excitement from the 21 other conference tournaments which received only 1 bid.

Last year was actually a pretty poor example of my point. UAB pulled off a great upset, I'd still rather have watched LA tech or ODU in that game. Belmont is a program I respect but Murray State definitely should've been there. And you really think that Hampton at .500 was comparable to excitement that NCC was?

We spent a massive thread complaining about the nonconference slate this year yet at the same time we are for letting some of those teams into the NCAA tournament? I'm sorry I just think the tournament should be for the best teams.
Maigh Eo for Sam

WarriorInNYC

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #30 on: September 02, 2015, 02:35:06 PM »
And you really think that Hampton at .500 was comparable to excitement that NCC was?

We spent a massive thread complaining about the nonconference slate this year yet at the same time we are for letting some of those teams into the NCAA tournament? I'm sorry I just think the tournament should be for the best teams.

I don't think Hampton was comparable, but I don't think we missed out on much.  Definitely not worth losing the watchability of the conference tournaments so I can see NCC instead of Hampton in the NCAAs.

Benny B

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #31 on: September 02, 2015, 02:38:14 PM »
I've said it once, I'll say it again....


As long as Nova, Georgetown and Marquette stick together, all three will be just fine.
Wow, I'm very concerned for Benny.  Being able to mimic Myron Medcalf's writing so closely implies an oncoming case of dementia.

NotAnAlum

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #32 on: September 02, 2015, 03:04:27 PM »
I'm sorry I just think the tournament should be for the best teams.

The tournament hasn't been about the "best teams" ever since the automatic bid things was launched.  Its about keeping the season interesting for all teams as long as possible.  Heck even after our dismal season we still watched the BE tourney knowing there was some very small chance that MU could still get into the NCAA tournament if we won out. 
But going back to your "Best Teams" argument I would have to assume that the worst miscarriage of justice in your eyes last year was Hampton replacing NC Central.  So lets look at NC Centrals non-con record to see how good a season they had and how big a miscarriage of justice this was.
NC Central lost to North Carolina by 16, to Creighton by 20, to Cincinnati by 9, to Maryland by 11 and finally to Memphis by 34 to end their non-con season.  So was this that big a problem that they were left out?

Galway Eagle

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #33 on: September 02, 2015, 03:33:15 PM »
The tournament hasn't been about the "best teams" ever since the automatic bid things was launched.  Its about keeping the season interesting for all teams as long as possible.  Heck even after our dismal season we still watched the BE tourney knowing there was some very small chance that MU could still get into the NCAA tournament if we won out. 
But going back to your "Best Teams" argument I would have to assume that the worst miscarriage of justice in your eyes last year was Hampton replacing NC Central.  So lets look at NC Centrals non-con record to see how good a season they had and how big a miscarriage of justice this was.
NC Central lost to North Carolina by 16, to Creighton by 20, to Cincinnati by 9, to Maryland by 11 and finally to Memphis by 34 to end their non-con season.  So was this that big a problem that they were left out?

It likely would've been a better game than Hampton though and actually would belong there having done the work all year. 
Maigh Eo for Sam

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #34 on: September 02, 2015, 03:33:57 PM »
I like that every team has a chance at the big dance until they lose in their conference tourney (excluding the ivy league). I think it keeps things interesting
TAMU

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fjm

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #35 on: September 02, 2015, 05:25:21 PM »
MU needs a football team.

Not like we don't have the $$ for it. That new sports complex could have been a football stadium. Then we wouldn't have to worry about this.

Dawson Rental

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #36 on: September 02, 2015, 05:39:38 PM »
I've always thought that if those conferences split off, that it would open the door for the other conferences like the Big East to start paying players and get the best talent.

It's a lot cheaper to pay 13 basketball players than 70 football players (plus 13 basketball players).
You actually have a degree from Marquette?

Quote from: muguru
No...and after reading many many psosts from people on this board that do...I have to say I'm MUCH better off, if this is the type of "intelligence" a degree from MU gets you. It sure is on full display I will say that.

Galway Eagle

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #37 on: September 02, 2015, 05:54:01 PM »
MU needs a football team.

Not like we don't have the $$ for it. That new sports complex could have been a football stadium. Then we wouldn't have to worry about this.

Yeah it's worked great for uconn we need one too!
Maigh Eo for Sam

Dawson Rental

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #38 on: September 02, 2015, 05:56:09 PM »
Last year was actually a pretty poor example of my point. UAB pulled off a great upset, I'd still rather have watched LA tech or ODU in that game. Belmont is a program I respect but Murray State definitely should've been there. And you really think that Hampton at .500 was comparable to excitement that NCC was?

We spent a massive thread complaining about the nonconference slate this year yet at the same time we are for letting some of those teams into the NCAA tournament? I'm sorry I just think the tournament should be for the best teams.

Utopia: not happening anytime soon. 

What you think is nice, but (as has been said) the deal is the NCAA lets the conferences decide that.  If the conferences are willing to sacrifice their best teams on a regular basis in order to increase revenue from their postseason tournament, then their best teams will regularly be eliminated.  Unless, of course, you're willing to limit the Big East to two or three teams appearing each year so that lower rated conferences can send both their regular season and tournament champions each year.  What would that do for your wish to have the best teams there?

A very good argument could be made that UAB was a better team than La Tech at the time of the NCAA tournament, otherwise how would they have won their conference tournament?  It's nice to reward a team for consistency throughout the year, but you'll get a better NCAA opponent when you choose the the team that's hot at the time of the tournament.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 06:01:02 PM by Crean to Ann Arbor »
You actually have a degree from Marquette?

Quote from: muguru
No...and after reading many many psosts from people on this board that do...I have to say I'm MUCH better off, if this is the type of "intelligence" a degree from MU gets you. It sure is on full display I will say that.

Dawson Rental

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #39 on: September 02, 2015, 06:03:12 PM »
MU needs a football team.

Not like we don't have the $$ for it. That new sports complex could have been a football stadium. Then we wouldn't have to worry about this.

What you don't know about college football could fill many MUScoop threads.  Heck, it has.
You actually have a degree from Marquette?

Quote from: muguru
No...and after reading many many psosts from people on this board that do...I have to say I'm MUCH better off, if this is the type of "intelligence" a degree from MU gets you. It sure is on full display I will say that.

GGGG

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #40 on: September 02, 2015, 07:13:03 PM »
MU needs a football team.

Not like we don't have the $$ for it. That new sports complex could have been a football stadium. Then we wouldn't have to worry about this.


Marquette doesn't have the money for it.  Other than that, this is a great idea.

source?

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #41 on: September 02, 2015, 07:24:58 PM »
Butler was an 8 seed the second FF year I doubt they'd be in without winning that tournament. 

Last year 16-17 Hampton made it instead of 25-8 North Carolina Central that went undefeated during conference play.  19-15 UAB instead of 27-9 LA Tech or 27-8 Old Dominion. 

I personally believe LA Tech or ODU could've made some better noise than UAB (yes I realize they took down Iowa St)

The Horizon had a 3 way tie in 2011. Under the proposed system Butler would probably have not made the tournament that year without winning the tournament due to not enough bids to go around.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 07:28:55 PM by source? »

Tugg Speedman

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #42 on: September 02, 2015, 07:27:28 PM »
MU needs a football team.

Not like we don't have the $$ for it. That new sports complex could have been a football stadium. Then we wouldn't have to worry about this.

How many private urban schools have successful high D1 football programs?  I count two ... USC and "The U."  Both have been around 100 years and both are in nice weather.

Bill Gates could give MU a billion dollars to start a football team and not only would it not be successful, but it would drag down our basketball program like Uconn is dragging down their basketball program.

I cannot think of one scenario where this is a good idea.

Mods ... any poster that calls for MU to start football should be banned for a month.

Newsdreams

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #43 on: September 02, 2015, 08:11:06 PM »
Well it's just a crapshoot!
Goal is National Championship

naginiF

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #44 on: September 02, 2015, 08:32:42 PM »
How many private urban schools have successful high D1 football programs?  I count two ... USC and "The U."  Both have been around 100 years and both are in nice weather.

Bill Gates could give MU a billion dollars to start a football team and not only would it not be successful, but it would drag down our basketball program like Uconn is dragging down their basketball program.

I cannot think of one scenario where this is a good idea.

Mods ... any poster that calls for MU to start football should be banned for a month.
If everybody who claimed an impossible, irrational, or ignorant solution were banned, it would get awfully quiet in these parts in a hurry.

fjm

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #45 on: September 02, 2015, 10:19:01 PM »
Holy testicle Tuesday. I got owned on that MU football idea. All fair points around gang!

Herman Cain

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #46 on: September 02, 2015, 11:28:46 PM »
Holy testicle Tuesday. I got owned on that MU football idea. All fair points around gang!
Actually I think Football would be a good thing for MU. Have a team in the Pioneer Football League  which is no scholarships. Would be a lot of fun.  The administration made a bad decision in 1960. Needs to be reversed.
Winning is overrated. The only time it is really important is in surgery and war.
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ChicosBailBonds

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #47 on: September 02, 2015, 11:50:03 PM »
I just don't understand why the powers that be just share the TV contract terms with these knuckleheads.  The P5 cannot go on their own and take all the money with them from the basketball tournament.  The contract is written in such a way that nothing is going to happen at the earliest until the next deal, which is well into the next decade.


Litehouse

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #48 on: September 03, 2015, 07:09:58 AM »
It's a lot cheaper to pay 13 basketball players than 70 football players (plus 13 basketball players).
Exactly, it's where we have an advantage being smaller and not having football.  We wouldn't even have to pay 13 since all NCAA rules would be out the window at that point, maybe something smaller like 10.

MUMonster03

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Re: ESPN: Poll: Non-Power 5 wary of emerging 'second tier'
« Reply #49 on: September 03, 2015, 07:59:51 AM »
What should occur is Division I football at the FBS level should just split off from the NCAA. Even though there is the College Football Playoff it is still not an official NCAA Championship event, hence why it has it's own trophy instead of the standard NCAA Championship trophy used in every other sport.

If the non-power 5 conferences do not want to join them for football then they revert to FCS.

Personally I do not see anything happening now that they are allowing for "true" cost to be covered. Plus the Big East had already mentioned that any rules that the Power 5 implements, they will implement as well.

Not having football actually works to our advantage in this situation because it is not another cost that a mid-level football school with 84 scholarship players has to cover. I'm not sure what the cost per scholarship athlete will be but 13 is a lot easier to fund than 97.

 

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